From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V2 #19 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 3 December 1992 Volume 02 : Number 019 In this issue: re:Hit The Ground...parts? Re: F-117 Re: F-117 Re: F-117 Re: F-117 Re: F-117 F117 / B-1B airshow security See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: d246@uni05.larc.nasa.gov (Braden Glen) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 08:12:41 -0500 Subject: re:Hit The Ground...parts? A few years ago our Public Affairs NG Unit went to Panama and Honduras. We were covering several assignments in Honduras and I went on several as Photographic support. Taking pictures of C130's and C131's on the tarmac in Honduras got me and the officer with me a visit from security and a call to the command in Panama to confirm that we were who we were and could take pictures of the C130. Looking at these pictures, I could never figure out what the big deal was, although the resulting article was never published because of security. Living and working right outside of Langley AFB has spoiled me. We see F117 flying all the time. I had inlaw come visit last September and I took them on base in search of one. We drove out to the edge of the tarmac and everyone got out to ooh and aah. It took less than five minutes for the security people to come kick us out. The two airshow here had guards with the F117's. I don't remember more than two or three. There were flatbed trailers set up on either side so that visiters could get a top view picture. I also noticed that the B1 on display didn't have ghuards anymore. This year, it was roped off but last year I remember being able to go up, under and around the B1. This year there was also a U2. I do have photos of about 20 F117's lining the tarmac on their way to the gulf. Quite a site. A friend of mine told me that many aspects of the F117 are no longer 'black'. I don't think that it will be too long before they get rid of the ropes and guards when the F117 is displayed. Glen Glen A Braden d246@uni05.larc.nasa.gov System Analyst 804 865-9387 (WK) UNISYS 804 851-6530 (HM) 'If you give the users a block, they'll take a cylinder...' ------------------------------ From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 06:52:53 MST Subject: Re: F-117 wb9omc@ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: >At the bottom of the sign, often in big red letters: >"USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED" These are almost always displayed at the rope lines surrounding F-117s. >Once at the Dayton show I saw an F117 guard >point his M16 right at a guy's head! The guy had been warned, TWICE, >to quit touching the airplane. He didn't listen. Geez... what a JERK! But i'm *very* surprised it was close enough to touch. The ones i've seen out on public display, the ropes were all about five feet or more away from the aircraft... i.e. way out of reach. The one opportunity I got to see a 117 in a hanger when the general public was *not* around, the ropes were much closer, but still placed so it was just out of reach. >The guard basically stuck the barrel of the rifle in the guy's face and >told him that if he didn't leave IMMEDIATELY he could either be escorted >away or carried away. Heh... ------------------------------ From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 06:53:27 MST Subject: Re: F-117 U-E68882-John Bloomberg writes: >I was there in '89 I think. I was taking some video of the F117 from >the back of a C5 (both powered by GE engines) and the focus on my >camera kept cycling from infinity to close up. I guess the focus uses >ultrasonics to get the proper range??? Or in this case tried to. Most use IR... One thing about the F-117 is that the stealth characteristics also work quite well at the infra-red wavelength used by most camcorders! All the IR beams are reflected AWAY from the source (i.e. camera), therefore it goes to an infinity focus. ------------------------------ From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 07:43:24 MST Subject: Re: F-117 >In my testing of various IR systems, I have SERIOUS doubts about this. Well... All I can say is that the reason I mentioned it in the first place was because of my own personal experience in pointing a camcorder at several (real :) F-117s... I had to use manual focus when shooting any close ups, when AF always works for anything else. You point AF at the 117, and it goes to infinity... At least mine does. I have talked to the guards watching 'em, and they said it was a common occurance. One guy told me he's seen lots of people trying to "fix" their cameras and such because of this problem... - -dean ------------------------------ From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 06:52:53 MST Subject: Re: F-117 wb9omc@ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: >At the bottom of the sign, often in big red letters: >"USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED" These are almost always displayed at the rope lines surrounding F-117s. >Once at the Dayton show I saw an F117 guard >point his M16 right at a guy's head! The guy had been warned, TWICE, >to quit touching the airplane. He didn't listen. Geez... what a JERK! But i'm *very* surprised it was close enough to touch. The ones i've seen out on public display, the ropes were all about five feet or more away from the aircraft... i.e. way out of reach. The one opportunity I got to see a 117 in a hanger when the general public was *not* around, the ropes were much closer, but still placed so it was just out of reach. >The guard basically stuck the barrel of the rifle in the guy's face and >told him that if he didn't leave IMMEDIATELY he could either be escorted >away or carried away. Heh... ------------------------------ From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 06:52:53 MST Subject: Re: F-117 wb9omc@ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: >At the bottom of the sign, often in big red letters: >"USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED" These are almost always displayed at the rope lines surrounding F-117s. >Once at the Dayton show I saw an F117 guard >point his M16 right at a guy's head! The guy had been warned, TWICE, >to quit touching the airplane. He didn't listen. Geez... what a JERK! But i'm *very* surprised it was close enough to touch. The ones i've seen out on public display, the ropes were all about five feet or more away from the aircraft... i.e. way out of reach. The one opportunity I got to see a 117 in a hanger when the general public was *not* around, the ropes were much closer, but still placed so it was just out of reach. >The guard basically stuck the barrel of the rifle in the guy's face and >told him that if he didn't leave IMMEDIATELY he could either be escorted >away or carried away. Heh... ------------------------------ From: stady@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Steven Stady) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 20:08:25 MST Subject: F117 / B-1B airshow security > Subject: re:Hit The Ground...parts? > [...] > The two airshow here had guards with the F117's. I don't remember more than > two or three. There were flatbed trailers set up on either side so that > visiters could get a top view picture. I also noticed that the B1 on display > didn't have ghuards anymore. This year, it was roped off but last year I > remember being able to go up, under and around the B1. This year there was > also a U2. I do have photos of about 20 F117's lining the tarmac on their way > to the gulf. Quite a site. A friend of mine told me that many aspects of the >F117 are no longer 'black'. I don't think that it will be too long before they > get rid of the ropes and guards when the F117 is displayed. > > Glen > > Glen A Braden d246@uni05.larc.nasa.gov > System Analyst 804 865-9387 (WK) > UNISYS 804 851-6530 (HM) > > 'If you give the users a block, they'll take a cylinder...' > I was at the CFB Edmonton (Alberta, Canada) airshow this spring. The F117 was parked on the ramp with a flimsy rope barricade around it, about 6 ft away from it. I can't remember seeing more than a couple of guards around the F117 at any one time. Often there appeared to be only a single guard on duty (although I have a feeling that if needed, man more would appear at a moments notice :-) On the other hand, when I was at the Abbotsford (BC, Canada) airshow in 1991, the F117 was parked well back into an otherwise empty hanger. There was a rope across the doorway and (my memory may be failing me here) 3 or 4 guards _with_ M16's and looking anxious to use them :-) There was also a B-1B on static display. No 'guards' per se, just the regular crew-members answering questions. I would suggest that there really wasn't that much 'secret' equipment on a B-1B when the power is off since I managed to get a guided tour of the cockpit and OSO/DSO positions. Does anybody know anything about this? Does the equipment become 'secret' (at least not viewable by the general public) only while it is powered-up? - ------------------------------------------------- =''' Steven Stady o__ c-oo _.>/ _ | \ stady@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (_) \(_) \ - - ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V2 #19 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". 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