From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V2 #30 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 15 December 1992 Volume 02 : Number 030 In this issue: A12, F23 & F22 --> AX! Re: Washington Post article Re: French Support Russian SCRAMJET Tests Re: French Support Russian SCRAMJET Tests Sighting quoted from sci.space... An interesting story Re: An interesting story large black snake Habu Habu (II) Re: An interesting story Re: Pix coming this January Re: Excalibur? Re: Excalibur? Re: large black snake See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JohnnyB Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 7:02:34 EST Subject: A12, F23 & F22 --> AX! If the A-12 is still being built it is to try and win the AX contract. The F-23 and F-22 are also being used as starting points for design proposals for the AX. In addition to these are two other teams working on brand spanking new designs for their AX proposals. Each team is to come up with an entire package to sell, which includes the engines, to the government. The idea here is to make the competition as low cost as possible, however, some politicos have steped in and may require a fly off between the two best designs. In the end, the team that wins will be the one that has'nt won a contract lately and quotes a price about 50% below what they really intend to stick the gov. with. Call me synical (and a bad speller) but I've seen it before. Adios, jb ------------------------------ From: Wayne G. Morrison Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 11:05:37 EST Subject: Re: Washington Post article There was something rather amusing about the printing of this article. The first section was on the front page of the first section of the paper and the second section was on page 12 of the first section. Each section is given a letter. In providing the continuation page reference for the remainder of the article, the reader was therefore told to go to A-12 to learn more about black spyplanes. Wayne Morrison ------------------------------ From: Rick Lafford Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:13:32 EST Subject: Re: French Support Russian SCRAMJET Tests Larry, Any idea which SAM booster was used in these tests? Rick - ----------- Rick Lafford Eastman Kodak Co. lafford@serum.kodak.com ================================= ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:02:44 -0800 Subject: Re: French Support Russian SCRAMJET Tests Hello Rick, > >Larry, > > Any idea which SAM booster was used in these tests? No I don't , and in all fairness, there was another column (another page) to the article that my source neglected to FAX me. He was supposed to FAX it Friday PM, but it never showed up. I discussed the subject of that column with him on the phone and he stated that there was more technical info. in it and he apologized for not FAXing the last page. He mentioned that the scramjet test package achieved Mach 5 and that it was Hydrogen fueled. So the French/Russians have achieved a successful airbreathing scramjet test for approx. 15 seconds, that achieved Mach 5! No speculation needed guys! We're dorking around speculating about Aurora being Mach 8, and the Russians and French actually went airbreathing to Mach 5! If your government ever did such a thing, they would never tell you. In fact, just think if the same level of security had been in effect for the Wright Brothers flight! Larry ... you're out of line!!!! Sorry! If anybody gets the full poop, please go ahead and post it. Larry ------------------------------ From: tld@cosmos.bellcore.com (Terry Davidson) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 14:23:55 EST Subject: Sighting quoted from sci.space... Greetings: Not sure of the validity of the following; but thought it was interesting enough to forward... maybe someone with better a/c background than I can respond to Ken and Rich... 8*) In article <1992Dec14.155806.17947@athena.mit.edu>, kdrolt@athena.mit.edu (Kenneth D Rolt) writes: |> Rich Silva [rich@locus.com] wrote: |> >I was in Joshua Tree national forest last May when I saw a plane in |> >the upper atmosphere fly across the sky about as fast as metors do I |> >didn't here any sonic booms but I't couldn't have been a jet airliner |> >it was moving too fast. I did notice it's contrail was lumpy |> >like -+-+-+-+-+-+ like a pulse. |> |> a possible reason why you didn't hear anything {i.e. no sonic boom, and |> no thrust noise} was that the sound from the mach cone and from the jet |> was refracted too much away from the ground due to a sound speed profile |> in the atmosphere: the sound speed for the *aircraft* altitude was |> slower than the speed of sound on the ground, so the sound waves |> refracted enough for you to be in an acoustical shadow zone. the same |> phenomenon exists in the ocean. of course, maybe you really didn't see |> anything at all :) -ken ------------------------------ From: tom@gordian.com (Tom Ambrose) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 12:53:05 PST Subject: An interesting story I was on a plane on my way to Cleveland and I started talking to the kid next to me. After a while, he told me his dad was in Marine Recon. and flew RF-4's for a while. Later, I was reading the "Wings" issue on the history of Edwards with a Blackbird on the cover. He saw it and called it some other name (of course, I can't remember what he said). I asked why he called it that and he said when his dad was stationed in the Far East, they used to fly over his soccer field all the time. The name he gave it meant "large black snake". He hadn't seen one since. This would have been about 10 years ago. He didn't even know it was an SR-71 Blackbird. - -tom -------------------------------------------------------------- | Thomas P. Ambrose Gordian, Inc., Santa Ana Heights, CA | | tom@gordian.com phone: 714-850-0205 fax: 714-850-0533 | \____________________________________________________________/ | | | "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes | \ a bit longer." -- Henry Kissinger / \------------------------------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ From: Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:14:02 PST Subject: Re: An interesting story >I asked why he called it that and he said when his dad was stationed in >the Far East, they used to fly over his soccer field all the time. The >name he gave it meant "large black snake". "Habu." As I understand it, the word doesn't mean "large black snake" in the generic sense, but is the local name of a snake in Okinawa. - --Geoff ------------------------------ From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:22:06 PST Subject: large black snake Tom, That name you can't remember is likely 'Habu'. A sidenote, I believe that Habu is also poisonous... A long time ago (in a city far away... ;-) a friend related how he was an air traffic controller at Okinawa. The blackbird was based there and they'd regularly give them instructions for landing approaches even though they couldn't see anything on their radar. They usually showed up when they were a few miles out on the approach and even then gave a very fuzzy return. They'd land and disappear at the other end of the runway, where it was said they had underground hangars... Rick ------------------------------ From: I am the NRA Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:33:59 PST Subject: Habu From: US1RMC::"tom@gordian.com" "Tom Ambrose" 14-DEC-1992 16:27:05.69 To: skunk-works@ecn.purdue.edu CC: Subj: An interesting story I was on a plane on my way to Cleveland and I started talking to the kid next to me. After a while, he told me his dad was in Marine Recon. and flew RF-4's for a while. Later, I was reading the "Wings" issue on the history of Edwards with a Blackbird on the cover. He saw it and called it some other name (of course, I can't remember what he said). I asked why he called it that and he said when his dad was stationed in the Far East, they used to fly over his soccer field all the time. The name he gave it meant "large black snake". He hadn't seen one since. This would have been about 10 years ago. He didn't even know it was an SR-71 Blackbird. - -tom -------------------------------------------------------------- | Thomas P. Ambrose Gordian, Inc., Santa Ana Heights, CA | | tom@gordian.com phone: 714-850-0205 fax: 714-850-0533 | \____________________________________________________________/ | | | "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes | \ a bit longer." -- Henry Kissinger / \------------------------------------------------------------/ % ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ====== % Received: by us1rmc.bb.dec.com; id AA17782; Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:26:57 -0500 % Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA11694; Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:29:18 -0800 % Received: by harbor.ecn.purdue.edu (5.65/1.32jrs) id AA27970; Mon, 14 Dec 92 15:53:29 -050 % Received: from bank.ecn.purdue.edu by harbor.ecn.purdue.edu (5.65/1.32jrs) id AA27963; Mon, 14 Dec 92 15:53:22 -050 % Received: from gordius.gordian.com by bank.ecn.purdue.edu (5.65/1.32jrs) id AA28877; Mon, 14 Dec 92 15:53:17 -050 % Received: from alecto (alecto.gordian.com) by gordius.gordian.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11446; Mon, 14 Dec 92 12:53:13 PS % Received: by alecto (5.61/1.34) id AA05735; Mon, 14 Dec 92 12:53:06 -080 % From: tom@gordian.com (Tom Ambrose) % Message-Id: <9212142053.AA05735@alecto> % To: skunk-works@ecn.purdue.edu % Subject: An interesting story % Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 12:53:05 PST % Sender: skunk-works-owner@ecn.purdue.edu % Precedence: bulk ------------------------------ From: I am the NRA Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:38:14 PST Subject: Habu (II) Just a leeetle more content... >From: US1RMC::"tom@gordian.com" "Tom Ambrose" 14-DEC-1992 16:27:05.69 >To: skunk-works@ecn.purdue.edu >I was on a plane on my way to Cleveland and I started talking to the kid next >to me. After a while, he told me his dad was in Marine Recon. and flew RF-4's >for a while. >Later, I was reading the "Wings" issue on the history of Edwards with a >Blackbird on the cover. He saw it and called it some other name (of course, I >can't remember what he said). I asked why he called it that and he said when >his dad was stationed in the Far East, they used to fly over his soccer field >all the time. The name he gave it meant "large black snake". He hadn't seen >one since. This would have been about 10 years ago. He didn't even know it was >an SR-71 Blackbird. Probably Habu. An Okinawan name for an indigenous, black, venemous snake, which mostly comes out at night. The Okinawans thought that it fit the SR71... I believe it is incorporated into one of the unit patches. This from one of the standard SR71 "picture books". regards dwp ------------------------------ From: lhawkins@annie.wellesley.edu Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:40:55 -0500 Subject: Re: An interesting story In your message dated: Mon, 14 Dec 92 12:53:05 PST you write: >on the cover. He saw it and called it some other name (of course, I can't >remember what he said). I asked why he called it that and he said when his da >d >was stationed in the Far East, they used to fly over his soccer field all the >time. The name he gave it meant "large black snake". He hadn't seen one sinc >e. He most likely said Habu, which is what the Okinawans (sp?) called the SR-71. Cheers, - --Lee ------------------------------ From: brndlfly@Athena.MIT.EDU Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 17:22:19 EST Subject: Re: Pix coming this January OK Phil, here's the deal. This guy who's letting me use the Media Lab's flatbed scanner is going to do so starting as soon as I get back into Boston on January 1st. That night I am going to start looking through my references and pick out some of the better quality photos and reprints (how about a 75th Anniversary of Naval Aviation commemorative formation flight from the 1992 Cutting Edge calendar?) of the lot. I can scan as much as you can hold, so I'll keep right on doing it until you say when. BTW, any specific requests from the skunkers? I won't make any promises, but I'll see what I can dig up. See ya in the funny papers. -T T Velazquez MIT Aero/Astro brndlfly@athena.mit.edu "Crayolas are one of the few things the human race has in common." -Robert Fulghum ------------------------------ From: Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 14:49:56 PST Subject: Re: Excalibur? >Actually the B-1B's name is the LANCER. I forget the "Excailbur" story >off hand, but I think it either originated from a novel, or there was >a particular aircraft given that name... Dale Brown came up with the name for _Flight Of the Old Dog_. The B-1 hadn't been given an official name at the time the book was written, so he made one up on his own to add a bit of color to the story. In the introduction to a later novel (the title of which I forget), Brown acknowledged that the B-1 had since been named Lancer, but that he decided to keep the name Excalibur in the new book for reasons of continuity. - --Geoff ------------------------------ From: Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 14:49:56 PST Subject: Re: Excalibur? >Actually the B-1B's name is the LANCER. I forget the "Excailbur" story >off hand, but I think it either originated from a novel, or there was >a particular aircraft given that name... Dale Brown came up with the name for _Flight Of the Old Dog_. The B-1 hadn't been given an official name at the time the book was written, so he made one up on his own to add a bit of color to the story. In the introduction to a later novel (the title of which I forget), Brown acknowledged that the B-1 had since been named Lancer, but that he decided to keep the name Excalibur in the new book for reasons of continuity. - --Geoff ------------------------------ From: Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:05:10 PST Subject: Re: large black snake Rick writes: >They'd land and disappear at the other end of the >runway, where it was said they had underground hangars... I've heard that rumor for years, and I finally got the straight scoop on it. It turns out that there's a slight rise about halfway down the runway at Kadena, and the SR-71s, not being the tallest of airplanes, would seem to disappear over this slight hump as they rolled out after landing. To observers at ground level, it would sometimes appear that they'd vanished -- apparently down a concealed ramp into an underground hangar. I wish I could remember where it was that I read about that. I don't recall whether it was on the net or in a book, but I do remember that the author, whoever he was, had been stationed at Kadena and was therefore a credible witness. - --Geoff ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V2 #30 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". 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