From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V2 #71 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 4 February 1993 Volume 02 : Number 071 In this issue: Re: Keyhole NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" Classified Ad Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" RE: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" Re: Classified Ad Re: Classified Ad Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" Unsolved Mysteries Re: Unsolved Mysteries NRO? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 06:04:03 MST Subject: Re: Keyhole Rick Lafford writes: >My question was centered around the "all digital" comment rather than the >hybrid film/digital systems. The image was made on film which was developed >and then scanned by a micron range CCD line imager. The resulting digital >data was then downlinked to the surface. All the exposure I had to these >programs evaporated in the 1980 time frame, so I don't know what the current >level of the technology is. Hmmm... I would tend to strongly doubt anything like that was used on our more recent crop of satellites. Being dependent on film like that would highly limit the lifespan and imaging throughput, not to mention introduce a lot of potential failure modes. I think KH-9 birds may have eventually had such a "hybrid" system available, perhaps to allow interpreters to "preview" images before expending one of the limited number of film return capsules. KH-11 and certainly Advanced KH-11 birds have been said to have "near real time" imaging capability. That plus the fact that they operate continuously for *years*, compared to only months for the KH-9, makes me think that "all digital" means exactly that... I'm sure the TR-1 still flies some film cameras though. :-) And who knows *what* we might find in the Aurora... - -dean ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 03-Feb-1993 0845 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 08:47:55 EST Subject: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" The head of the NRO, Martin Faga, is interviewed in this week's AW&ST. At the end of the article (by Bill Scott), he says something like (I'm paraphrasing), NRO, the USAF, and the CIA do not have an Aurora or an Aurora-like vehicle, defined (by him) as an SR-71 replacement in the Mach 3-8 regime. Not now, not ever. But, unlike the Sec. of the AF, who denied Aurora on the idea that he would *have* to have heard about it, Faga allowed that other agencies outside the three listed above might have such a vehicle. George George Allegrezza "What a maroon." Digital Equipment Corporation -- B. Bunny Littleton MA USA allegrezza@tnpubs.enet.dec.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce Henderson Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 10:57:11 -0800 Subject: Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" I'm telling you could be a Navy bird. (sounds strange, but most people would not look for it there) Bruce ------------------------------ From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 12:08:07 PST Subject: Classified Ad Wanted: A Lockheed Skunk Works tshirt. Size XL. Preferably (if there should happen to be more choices) in black. Will pay expenses and shipping. reply to kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Why post this way? You never know who reads this... by the way, if that approach works, I'd also be interested in tshirts or even baseball caps from Lockheed, Rockwell, Northrup, CIA, DIA, MIA, NRO, or whatever. I could offer, in the event of a trade, tshirts from the Boeing Developmental Center... No, only the white stuff. E-3, B-1 and B-2, F-22, Avenger, etc. Would especially be interested in unusual, obscure logoed object such as coffee mugs with funny names and no pictures (though I doubt that something like "Have Blue", "Oxcart", or "Senior Swing" would find it's way onto a coffee mug. Thanks for the interruption. Rick (I promise not to do it again... though if anyone wants to set up a network of tshirt and baseball cap junkies, write me...) ------------------------------ From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 12:25:07 PST Subject: Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" Well, based on the articles written by Stephen Aftergood, they're just as likely lying through their teeth, also. Who says they have to tell the truth? Of course, it's possible that they are saying that about a very strict definition of what they assume we think the aurora is... if the people that make up these denials are masters of pun we could be getting answers that are totally bogus. Scenario: General, what's an Aurora? General: There is no such vehicle. Translation: We don't have a Mach 15 vehicle called "Aurora". We DO, however, have a Mac 15 vehicle called "Execrator"... Rationalization: Likely they have many tools at their disposal to try and disavow or obscure any ownership of these vehicles. Heck, they could be owned, operated and leased by the manufacturers to the government... They could be owned by the Department of Energy if the mission is to spy on the locations of nuclear items and track their locations and movements, though I'd have a problem believing they need something so fast... These guys aren't stupid. However, I see the denials as proof that public scrutiny is getting close. I repeat (from an earlier message): If there is nothing going on at Groom Lake and Tonapah (and possibly others) then why are those places so hideously secret that they don't even officially recognize them? Much less give tours... If there aren't any projects going on, then why do they need the secrecy? Of course there are. Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com | Seattle, WA | It wastes your time | and annoys the droid. ------------------------------ From: "Craig Harding" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 09:38:59 NZT Subject: RE: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" George Allegrezza writes: >The head of the NRO, Martin Faga, is interviewed in this week's AW&ST. At >the end of the article (by Bill Scott), he says something like (I'm >paraphrasing), NRO, the USAF, and the CIA do not have an Aurora or an >Aurora-like vehicle, defined (by him) as an SR-71 replacement in the Mach >3-8 regime. Not now, not ever. > >But, unlike the Sec. of the AF, who denied Aurora on the idea that he would >*have* to have heard about it, Faga allowed that other agencies outside the >three listed above might have such a vehicle. Hmmm, these denials are getting interesting. Let's take a step back and look at the overall picture for a second. Basically, in the last few months various extremely senior US government officials have categorically denied the existance of Aurora. What I'm curious about (and what I don't know) is how do these statements compare with denials of the existance of the F-117, at times when it was still "deep black" but (we now know) in operation. Were the denials made then as strong, and from officials as highly placed? When (for example) the head of the NRO says "Aurora doesn't exist" as an *official* statement, must he be telling the truth or does he have license to lie at will to protect black programs. -- C. ------------------------------ From: Lee Levine Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 14:38:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Classified Ad I'd like one too, but in Large. On Wed, 3 Feb 1993, Rick Pavek wrote: > Wanted: A Lockheed Skunk Works tshirt. Size XL. Preferably (if there > should happen to be more choices) in black. Will pay expenses and > shipping. reply to kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com > > (Why post this way? You never know who reads this... by the way, > if that approach works, I'd also be interested in tshirts or even > baseball caps from Lockheed, Rockwell, Northrup, CIA, DIA, MIA, NRO, > or whatever. I could offer, in the event of a trade, tshirts from > the Boeing Developmental Center... No, only the white stuff. E-3, > B-1 and B-2, F-22, Avenger, etc. > > Would especially be interested in unusual, obscure logoed object such > as coffee mugs with funny names and no pictures (though I doubt that something > like "Have Blue", "Oxcart", or "Senior Swing" would find it's way onto > a coffee mug. > > Thanks for the interruption. Rick > (I promise not to do it again... though if anyone wants to set up a > network of tshirt and baseball cap junkies, write me...) ------------------------------ From: Joe.Lurker@Corp.Sun.COM (Joe Lurker STE) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 14:18:50 PST Subject: Re: Classified Ad I would like mine in XXL please! From the Lockheed Skunk Works or the Boeing Developmental Center... Have only portraits of President Jackson for trade! =8^) Thanks, joe ------------------------------ From: wcsswag@alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (The Charlatan) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 22:26:44 GMT Subject: Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" [AF stuff removed] After following the Aurora thread for a while, I had say it does exist. You even see it at some air shows up here. I even been inside. BTW, it looks nothing like what is been speculated. It disguised as 4 engine turboprop(Mach 5+,hmm). :-) Alex Many :-). For those unaware, in Canadian Forces usage, Aurrora, is designation for the CP-140, LRMP, looks sorta like a P-3 ------------------------------ From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 12:25:07 PST Subject: Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" Well, based on the articles written by Stephen Aftergood, they're just as likely lying through their teeth, also. Who says they have to tell the truth? Of course, it's possible that they are saying that about a very strict definition of what they assume we think the aurora is... if the people that make up these denials are masters of pun we could be getting answers that are totally bogus. Scenario: General, what's an Aurora? General: There is no such vehicle. Translation: We don't have a Mach 15 vehicle called "Aurora". We DO, however, have a Mac 15 vehicle called "Execrator"... Rationalization: Likely they have many tools at their disposal to try and disavow or obscure any ownership of these vehicles. Heck, they could be owned, operated and leased by the manufacturers to the government... They could be owned by the Department of Energy if the mission is to spy on the locations of nuclear items and track their locations and movements, though I'd have a problem believing they need something so fast... These guys aren't stupid. However, I see the denials as proof that public scrutiny is getting close. I repeat (from an earlier message): If there is nothing going on at Groom Lake and Tonapah (and possibly others) then why are those places so hideously secret that they don't even officially recognize them? Much less give tours... If there aren't any projects going on, then why do they need the secrecy? Of course there are. Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com | Seattle, WA | It wastes your time | and annoys the droid. ------------------------------ From: Robin John Lee Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 17:59:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: NRO says, "What's an Aurora?" (New user aboard) Seems to me that denying an "SR-71 replacement" is a rather specific statement...maybe a little tweaking of the mission statement ties up the legalities here. ("Not strategic reconnaissance, but...uh...strategic theater intelligence. Yeah, that sounds good...make sure it never appeared in any SR-71 brochure, sergeant.") ------------------------------ From: Zel Eaton <@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU:AD04@NEMOMUS> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 93 22:24:03 EST Subject: Unsolved Mysteries Anyone else catch the segment on the UFO on Unsolved Mysteries tonight (Wednesday 3 Feb)? The camera took a quick look at the papers that came with the anonymous video tape. I noticed a reference to Dreamland. Anyone tape it or catch the rest of the sentence? zel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! Zel Eaton (Bitnet) AD04@NEMOMUS (Portal) zel@cup.portal.com ! ! (Internet) AD04%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU ! ! (Voice) 816-665-1832 /\RCMA (MO-048) SHARKHUNTERS ! ! INTERNATIONAL, Member Board of Directors /\ CAF Col.! ! #12855/\ "LOS NUMEROS" - ON LINE- Contributing Ed. ! ! Me . . . I speak only for myself . . . ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: Peter Loron Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 21:57:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Unsolved Mysteries > Anyone else catch the segment on the UFO on Unsolved Mysteries tonight > (Wednesday 3 Feb)? The camera took a quick look at the papers that came > with the anonymous video tape. I noticed a reference to Dreamland. > Anyone tape it or catch the rest of the sentence? > Yes, I caught the Dreamland and the Area 51 references, but I don't usually tape Unsolved Mysteries. The "experts" seemed to think that the documents were bogus... Peter Loron | Before the invention of eruptions, lava had | to be carried down the mountain by hand and | thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took University of Washington | a lot of time. peterl@u.washington.edu | ------------------------------ From: "We could be unfortunate, and have to use Macs..." Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1993 01:11:24 EST Subject: NRO? Sorry, this is probably a stupid question on my part, but... I have yet to see the NRO untill now, and have no Idea what it means... Can any of you help??? Ed... ===== Ed Murphy (The University disclaims everything!) --- | / ---- | Internet Mail :: Murphyed1@woods.ulowell.edu /|\ |/ \ ===== "Warning, Phi Kap's May Be Habit Forming!!!" \|/ |\ / | Groundmail (The Slow Way) 1 University Ave. Box 1136 --- | \ ---- === Lowell, Ma. 01854 U.S.A. Phi Kappa Sigma Gamma Upsilon Chapter ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V2 #71 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@ecn.purdue.edu". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from harbor.ecn.purdue.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).