From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V2 #77 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 11 February 1993 Volume 02 : Number 077 In this issue: X-5 Air International article Re: Air International article GAO SAP report Re: Air International article thanx, larry; GAO report GPS pseudolites Off topic yes... Couldn't resist... sorry Re: Off topic yes... Couldn't resist... sorry Sources of SR-71 cost See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:12:04 EST Subject: X-5 I don't know if anyone has been watching the X-Planes series on A&E, but the other night they had on a program about the X-5. There was a thread here a little while back about the X-5 and when I mentioned that I had seen the X-5 at the Bell Aircraft plant outside Niagara Falls, I recieved a lot of flack basically saying " No Way". At the time I responded with the fact that my dad had taken photos for Bell Aircraft and one was in the Smithsonian. I still recieved some skepticism but things calmed down a little. During the A&E program they showed the X-5 at the "Wheatfield " plant. :) AND they called it the "Wheatfield Plant". They said it had it's initial test flights at Edwards but I recall seeing it fly at Wheatfield, too. Wheatfield is the name of a township outside Niagara Falls. The nearest village is actually a small German community called Bergholtz. Bell had plant in Buffalo, Bergholtz, and Model City near Lewiston/Youngstown area of Niagara County. Rocket testing was done at Wheatfield(Bergholtz) and at Model City. We lived about 15 miles from the Wheatfield facility but would be woke up in the middle of the night by the Agena B tests and the Nike Zeus tests. It was loud and long. Typically it would last several minutes. I've also seen the X-1A, X-2, original X22 with 4 engines and watched it crash. We had farm land near Ransomville and it was used for alternate "set downs" of "various equipment" ;) . It was also sight of several "picnic meetings" which included Larry Bell, Chuch Yeager, and Werner VonBraun (?sp). I got to meet them all but then was sent to the house. :( Wooops, I just reread what I have been typing and realize I may have given the wrong impression. The original 4 engine X22 crashed on the Hoover Dairy property just south of Sanborn. I photographed it, helped get the pilots out and then got my movie camera and took more photos. During the process I had my camera taken away but thanks to one of the VPs I knew and was there, I got it back. :) Sorry this is so long but I do feel vindicated on the X-5 and I hope you enjoyed some history of Bell. I know a lot more and would be willing to offer tidbits once in awhile. Paul ------------------------------ From: "S.K. Whiteman" <@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU:WHITEMAN@IPFWVM> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:40:50 EST Subject: Air International article This may have been covered in the past, and I may have missed it; but, on the other hand if it hasn't.... In the second part of the article, NASP - waveriders in a hypersonic sky in the Feb 93 issue on page 102, there appears the following: "Two SR-71As (60-6940 and 60-6941) were converted by the CIA to the M-12 configuration capable of carrying a D-21 drone piggyback. M-12 6941 was lost on July 3 1966, while attempting flight separation tests but the other M-12 continued to demonstrate the viability of this concept. It is interesting to note that the D-21 masked a variety of objectives not the least of which concerned a very unusual form of propulsion that has since found application elsewhere, frequently seen from another country." Now the questions: What is "a very unusual form of propulsion"? What does "frequently seen from another country" mean? BTW Page 102 also has a picture of 6940 with a D-21 onboard inflight. Sam ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 10:56:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Air International article Sam writes: >This may have been covered in the past, and I may have missed it; but, >on the other hand if it hasn't.... > >In the second part of the article, NASP - waveriders in a hypersonic sky >in the Feb 93 issue on page 102, there appears the following: Someone mentioned this article some weeks ago, but my local source of "Air International" currently has the Dec. 92 issue as the 'current' issue. Guess I'll see this article in April! >... >... . It is interesting to note that the D-21 masked a variety of >objectives not the least of which concerned a very unusual form of >propulsion that has since found application elsewhere, frequently >seen from another country." > >Now the questions: >What is "a very unusual form of propulsion"? Would have to be ramjet propulsion. It could also refer to rocket-boosted ramjet propulsion, and also parasite vehicle launched, ramjet powered vehicles as well. Actually 'unusual' is in the eye of the beholder. But anyway. >What does "frequently seen from another country" mean? Maybe it refers to the (I don't know if you'd call them frequent, but anyway) Russian scramjet tests, that as of late, the French are now partly involved in as well. >BTW Page 102 also has a picture of 6940 with a D-21 onboard inflight. Yes, I'm sure it does. I'm looking forward to April for the rest of you, when it will be Feb. here in Oregon. Land of the 100% Granola. Where natives will sit forever in front of a red stoplight, because they haven't figured out there are sensors in the road that makes the lights turn green, and they are stopped nowhere near that quite visible sensor. Or where the sensors are programmed to detect traffic approaching so they can change the light from green to red, even when there is no traffic coming the other way. Larry ------------------------------ From: "Philip R. Moyer" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 14:10:51 EST Subject: GAO SAP report The General Accounting Office has produced a report concerning congressional oversight of Special Access Programs (SAP), commonly called Black Projects. I believe this is the report on which Bill Scott based an article in the next to most recent issue of AW&ST. This topic has also caused much discussion on this mailing list. Here are the particulars: Title: "Defense Acquisition: Oversight of Special Access Programs Has Incresed" Number: GAO/NSIAD-93-78 Abstract: This is an unclassified summary of a recent classified GAO report on oversight policies and practices at Devense Department special access acquisition programs. These programs - also known as "black programs" - are highly secret projects with tightly controlled access and stringent security measures beyond those of standard classified programs. Beginning in the mid-1980s, Congress repeatedly voiced concerns about the growing number of special access programs and the Pentagon's refusal to provide information Congress needed to effectively oversee these programs. In a 1989 report, GAO noted a trend toward increased oversight and centralization of oversight of special access programs withing the Defense Department (DoD) - a trend that continues today. As a result of congressional and other external pressures, DoD has taken additional steps to bolster and centralize oversight of special access programs. The DoD Inspector General and the military services' audit agencies and inspectors general have also increased their oversight of these programs. You can request one free copy of this report by contacting the GAO in one of the following three ways: US Mail to: U.S. General Accounting Office P.O. Box 6015 Gaithersburg, MD 20884-6015 Telephone 202-512-6000 Fax 301-258-4066 Be sure to reference the abovementioned document number. Have fun. :-) Philip R. Moyer ECN Software Staff Engineering Computer Network Voice: 317-494-3648 prm@ecn.purdue.edu Fax: 317-494-6440 ------------------------------ From: "Personally, I don't think J. Edgar looked good in heels. 10-Feb-1993 1449" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 14:58:47 EST Subject: Re: Air International article I'm on the 2-months-behind plan vis a vis Air International as well, so it would be super if Sam would be kind enough to post a short summary of the Jan and Feb articles. Assuming he doesn't have real work to do. :-) Larry sez: >Yes, I'm sure it does. I'm looking forward to April for the rest of you, >when it will be Feb. here in Oregon. Land of the 100% Granola. Where natives >will sit forever in front of a red stoplight, because they haven't figured >out there are sensors in the road that makes the lights turn green, and they >are stopped nowhere near that quite visible sensor. Or where the sensors are >programmed to detect traffic approaching so they can change the light from >green to red, even when there is no traffic coming the other way. Harrumph. You haven't lived until you've seen the Mass Lane Sweep: a 74 Volvo or Saab (doesn't matter), last washed during the Carter Administration, with "Save the Earth" bumper stickers, doing 80-85 in the right lane, sweeps across four lanes to the left lane (cutting off yours truly), passes *one* car, then SLAMS on the binders and whips back across the four lanes, up the exit ramp, and right through the stop sign or red light at the top of the ramp. The drivers here are *crazy*, and I used to live in New Jork, so I know from bad driving. George George Allegrezza "What a maroon." Digital Equipment Corporation -- B. Bunny Littleton MA USA allegrezza@tnpubs.enet.dec.com ------------------------------ From: "S.K. Whiteman" <@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU:WHITEMAN@IPFWVM> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 14:47:06 EST Subject: thanx, larry; GAO report Larry: Thanks for the comments. I must have become jaded with all of the this high-tech. A ramjet just doesn't impress me as VERY unusual, unusual perhaps, but not VERY unusual. There is some discussion of the (ex-USSR, ex-CIS, Russian, or what ever they are calling themselves this week) / French connection in the article; I just missed the relationship. My brother got me a subscription to Air International last year for christmas and I still don't get them on time. It seems that I will get two issues at the same time or within a few days of each other. I like the magazine more for the neat pen and ink art work, the Feb issue is a B-25C, than the articles. AI is what Air Progress was & in the '60s. Phil: Does this mean that the stuff is starting to float? Wanta buy a tape recorder Mr. Nixon? It seems that these folks will never learn; secrets can't kept in a free society. This reminds me of the DOD/FAA argument pertaining to GPS. It seems that DOD wanted to limit accuracy to 100 meters and the FAA needed 10 meters. So, the FAA is building, new buzz word, pseudolites around major airports. As I understand it a pseudolite is a GSP satellite on the ground. Burn them $$$$... Member of the US taxpayer corps. We are the people who pay.. Sam ------------------------------ From: rh@craycos.com (Robert Herndon) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 14:33:18 MST Subject: GPS pseudolites Sam Whiteman writes: > Does this mean that the stuff is starting to float? Wanta buy a > tape recorder Mr. Nixon? It seems that these folks will never learn; > secrets can't kept in a free society. This reminds me of the DOD/FAA > argument pertaining to GPS. It seems that DOD wanted to limit accuracy > to 100 meters and the FAA needed 10 meters. So, the FAA is building, > new buzz word, pseudolites around major airports. As I understand it > a pseudolite is a GSP satellite on the ground. Burn them $$$$... This isn't terribly accurate, so I'll do my best to correct it. Someone with a more rigorous background in GPS technologies can probably correct or better explain anything I goof up, but: I'm not aware of any major (or even minor) FAA effort to build pseudo-lites (a contraction of "pseudo satellites"). What HAS been done is to build several differential GPS beacons, and the work is being done by the U.S. Coast Guard, not the FAA. What these GPS beacons do is, on a frequency NOT used by GPS satellites, transmit the error that a receiver at a known location sees from each satellite (the receiver must be at an exactly known position). This error signal can be used by GPS receivers to correct their position to yield a much more accurate position. It works within about 250 km of the differential GPS beacon, and near the beacon can yield accuracies on the order of 10 meters or so. (This accuracy is *better* than straight, military grade GPS can provide.) It works by compensating for several effects: 1) ionospheric propagation delays; 2) selective availability (the DoD's effort to limit GPS accuracy to "unauthorized" users); and 3) inaccuracies in the satellites' broadcast positions or times (other than those caused by selective availabilty). It should also be possible to use the DGPS beacon as a check on the basic sanity of the GPS constellation's signals (tho' I do not know if this is in fact being done at the present time). At the present time there are DGPS beacons at: Location Position Current status Portsmouth HR, NH N43 04.20 W70 42.50 On-line operational testing Montauk Point, NY N41 04.03 W71 51.64 On-line operational testing Cape Henlopen, DE N38 47.15 W75 05.90 On-line operational testing Cape Henry, VA N36 55.58 W76 00.45 On-line operational testing Galveston, TX N29 19.73 W94 44.10 On-line operational testing Aransas Pass, TX N27 50.30 W97 03.54 On-line operational testing Whitefish Point, MI N46 46.27 W84 57.45 On-line operational testing All of these were pre-existing HF navigation beacons. Each now broadcasts a low-bit-rate signal (50 or 100 bits/second) on its beacon; this signal can be used by GPS units with differential GPS capability to yield a more accurate position near the beacon. Robert Herndon ------------------------------ From: megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (B Bikowicz) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 17:10:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Off topic yes... Couldn't resist... sorry Once upon a time Personally, I don't think J. Edgar looked good in heels. 10-Feb-1993 1449 shaped the electrons to say... >"Save the Earth" bumper stickers, doing 80-85 in the right lane, sweeps across >four lanes to the left lane (cutting off yours truly), passes *one* car, then >SLAMS on the binders and whips back across the four lanes, up the exit ramp, a Hey, it's better when they use those 'extra lanes' I normally call the shoulders. I have a sportscar, and I'll cruise at about 75 on the Mass Pike, and I get blown away by guys in Yugos going 120. You could run scramjet tests on the Pike and no one would care. Of course there are the potholes that ate Cleveland in most cities. >The drivers here are *crazy*, and I used to live in New Jork, so I know from b Same here. I used to think the hiways in my area were layed out screwy... Then I came to Mass... The rotary state. I'm convinced they'd put rotaries in all the hiway exchanges if they could get away with it. I go through more rotaries in a 15 minute drive in Worcesrter than I had previously seen in my entire life. And who the hell was the genious that put huge statues in the middle so you can't see the oncomming traffic?! Driving in NY is a relaxing experience now... I'll go away now... ############################################################################### # I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity. Use your mind, think! # #Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime# ############################################################################### ------------------------------ From: pfloyd@STUDENT.umass.edu (BlackWing Restorations, Ltd.) Date: 10 Feb 1993 19:05:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Off topic yes... Couldn't resist... sorry hey... at least worcester ain't like jersey, where you have tollbooths every 27ft.... pf - -------------===========**********===========------------- BlackWing Restorations, Ltd. Investigations, Personal Security and Restorations a specialty Can be reached via the following Internet address: pfloyd@titan.ucc.umass.edu No case to easy, no fee too large, no ammunition expenditure too gratuitous. no body count too high... call now for an inexpensive consultation. ------------------------------ From: gt6745b@prism.gatech.edu Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 20:01:47 EST Subject: Sources of SR-71 cost > > I seem to recall reading that to > >refine and produce the fuel alone was costing several billion dollars. > >And this is relatively inexpensive? > > John Cavanaugh responds: > >I thought I had remembered hearing somewhere that it costs $100K every time > >they started the engines up on a Blackbird...Not exactly cheap... > > Hey guys! The references please!! :) Sorry, I have no "black and white" reference. I just seem to recall a conversation with a Lockheed employee that lived near me who worked with the vapor pressure problems of the fuel itself. I can't remember the exact figure, but the billions of dollars in cost stems not only from the cost of the fuel used, but also the cost of the facility and it's upkeep, as well as the fuel and the refinement process. One other point...the SR-71s leaked fuel like a sieve while on the ground. No telling how many gallons simply seeped away......$$$ -Michael Michael David Knight gt6745b@prism.gatech.edu * COMBAT AIRCRAFT: A mix of * Georgia Institute of Technology * sharp teeth, cold steel, * Atlanta, Georgia 30332 * cosmic warlords, and evil * Aerospace Engineering (404)676-0520 * spirits. * ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V2 #77 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@ecn.purdue.edu". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from harbor.ecn.purdue.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).