From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V3 #34 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 4 May 1993 Volume 03 : Number 034 In this issue: Re: PDW-engines Re: PDEs HMB-1 back in Redwood City New Book Alert Re: New Book Alert Re: new books See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) Date: Mon, 3 May 93 09:08:05 EDT Subject: Re: PDW-engines Lary writes: > Peter writes: > > > >I recently heard of a so called "Pulse Detonation Wave Engine". > VARIOUS ITEMS DELETED > >Comments anyone ? > > The detonation sounds were also heard at the time that photo was > shot. > > With regard to any airplane(s) that make these sounds and that are flying > now, I think an important consideration is if the detonation sounds are > of importance or are an insignificant side-effect. > Larry The large roar and pulsating sounds that people are describing remind me of when I used to live in Niagara County near the Model City rocket test site. Some of the rockets being tested used to have a pulsating sound to them. Is there any chance that this PDW-engine is nothing more than a rocket being tested at the Groom Lake site????? Paul ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com (Larry Smith) Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 11:29:01 -0700 Subject: Re: PDEs I wrote: >> With regard to any airplane(s) that make these sounds and that are flying >> now, I think an important consideration is if the detonation sounds are >> of importance or are an insignificant side-effect. Paul Mangan responds: >The large roar and pulsating sounds that people are describing remind me of >when I used to live in Niagara County near the Model City rocket test site. >Some of the rockets being tested used to have a pulsating sound to them. There are probably many reasons for hearing what you heard, from shut-off/restart tests to throttle snaps to engines with chug instabilities, whatever. But I would be interested in hearing a description of what you heard, along with what year you heard it, if this is still possible. What was the frequency? What did the transitions sound like? Did it sound like someone turning it on and off or did it sound like it was meant to run that way? >Is there any chance that this PDW-engine is nothing more than a rocket being >tested at the Groom Lake site????? Let me say this. It is possible that the detonation sounds are not caused by a PDE. I find the Paul Czysz ideas as published in Janes Defense Week, coupled with the rumors that AW&ST has heard about 'Impulse Motors', to be quite interesting. We all need to keep thinking about this. For example, I wonder from time-to-time about a backfire causing the detonation sounds. The sounds that people describe of "wind blowing over the neck of a bottle" are quite interesting as well. I can't help but wonder about a cold-flowing ramjet duct in this case, but there might be other reasons. Don't get me wrong, a PDE could produce that famous 'donuts-on-a-rope' contrail photo. There are PDE researchers who agree with this statement. But, as usual, the people that see these things cannot be expected to have the proper instrumentation with them to resolve the issue. The PDE world has also benefited from this. I for one would LOVE to see a DC-Y version with a bunch of airbreathing and rocket mode PDEs instead of the RL-10s. I'm not against traditional rockets at all. The RL-10s are at a much greater state of development than any PDE. But I would still love to see the PDE be tested on a DC-Y vehicle someday SOON. That means PDE's would have to be developed first. I would also like to see us go with the NASA HALO and SAPHYRE as well. By the way, Ben Rich told me recently to "forget about NORA". It is a program, but that small article in AW&ST was wrong. That program is not so far along at all. So he says. Speaking of neat news and the fact that if things keep going well with DC-X and Pegasus, we may find out that the civilian stuff eventually surpasses the military stuff that we are just conjecturing about. Did you all see the news about the Orbital Sciences airbreathing booster concept for Pegasus in the 5/93 Popular Mechanics (pg. 18)? A Mach 4 to 90,000 ft turbojet based airbreathing stage for Pegasus that doubles it's orbital payload. Flight date in 1995. Heck, maybe we'll pass the military stuff on the way up and back. Be sure to wave Hi! While everybody is arguing about what to do next, the McDonnell Douglas Space Systems and Orbital Sciences outfits are quietly DOING IT!!!!! Amen! Larry ------------------------------ From: rossix!philmc@fernwood.mpk.ca.us (Phil Mcintosh) Date: Mon, 3 May 93 14:38:11 -0700 Subject: HMB-1 back in Redwood City Skunkers, I had lunch in front of HMB-1(Hughes Marine Barge) today. It must have returned to the Redwood City facility some time over the weekend. The VERY interesting aside to this reappearance is that there is a large mobile crane with its arm extended as if it has or is going to lift something from the barge to shore.(maybe a Sea Shadow or "other"?!) Observations. 1. There has been work done to the heli-pad on top, and there was a orange wind-sock flying. 2. One of the wharehouses on shore had one of its roll-up doors halfway up, but it is raining today, so I was unable to determine if I could get within "viewing" distance. 3. It appears that there are two new compressor/generators on the top ledge section. 4. The hash marks on the side that tell how many feet the barge is submersed have been repainted. They top out at 60 feet, and the retractable portion of the barge extends from there. I have no idea what they are doing, but I will be vigilant for the next few days. Phil philmc@rossinc.com ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com (Larry Smith) Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 16:55:02 -0700 Subject: New Book Alert Hello. I got the following heads-up to check out a new book. As always, this is neither an endorsement nor an advertisement. Check it out for yourself before buying. Has anyone seen the following new book yet? Title: "Target America" Author: Steven Zaloga Publisher: Presidio Press, 1993 Evidently it has some interesting stuff in it (I'm told) from recently declassified Soviet archives. Stuff like their version of the Sanger antipodal bomber, information on their early nuclear bomb programs etc ... . Larry ------------------------------ From: Rick Pavek Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 17:43:04 -0700 Subject: Re: New Book Alert Ohh. Sounds juicy. Where was it advertised? Just heard that Jay Miller returned from the russian equiv of the Skunk Works last week... working on his own book on the wierd. (This is short cause it's time to go home... ;-) ------------------------------ From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Mon, 3 May 93 22:45:38 MDT Subject: Re: new books Rick writes: >Just heard that Jay Miller returned from the russian equiv of the >Skunk Works last week... working on his own book on the wierd. Hmmm... that sounds like it could be his new "Sukhoi" book. The full title is: "OKB Sukhoi: A History of the Design Bureau and its Aircraft" Not sure of the release date though... And... I am very anxiously awaiting the release of Jay's "Lockheed Skunk Works: The First Fifty Years" That should be quite a book! - -dean ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V3 #34 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". 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