From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V3 #70 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Friday, 2 July 1993 Volume 03 : Number 070 In this issue: Re: RC-135Q BLAST Re: Yet Another... Re: Falling Crowbars Anyone know anything about MiG-37 ? Re: Terminal velocity Re: Anyone know anything about MiG-37 ? Re: Terminal Velocity Re: RC-135Q Re: Crowbar Re: Crowbar crowbars and crosshairs Al White and XB70 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 03:23:12 MDT Subject: Re: RC-135Q Mary writes: >Just a tidbit of trivia Great! :-) >I was talking to a KC-10 pilot yesterday and he told me that running >JP-7 through the Moby absolutely trashed it. Apparently they had to >replace valves and lines all over the plane. He said that the KC-135s >(even the regular non-Q ones) didn't have this problem. Hmmm... interesting! I suppose they must have used some newer, "better" materials for the KC-10 systems. I take it this means that the 10s will no longer be used for any future NASA SR support flights? - -dean ------------------------------ From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 03:26:31 MDT Subject: BLAST Rick says... >(and yes, I'm serious. It's been talked about before, a crowbar sized >metal rod from orbit would be nasty if you could put it on target. > >And just what _was_ that "BLAST" experiment on STS57? They called it >the Battlefield Laser Acquisition System Test...) Are you sure you mean 57 (the current mission)? I have not seen or heard anything about that payload in a while. The most recent flight I could find for BLAST (catchy name :) was STS-53. Here is the info: SECONDARY IN-CABIN PAYLOADS, EXPERIMENTS Battlefield Laser Acquisition Sensor Test (BLAST) The Battlefield Laser Acquisition Sensor Test (BLAST) is an Army space project jointly sponsored by the Army Space Command, Colorado Springs, the Army Space Technology Research Office, Adelphi, Md., and the Night Vision Electro Optics Directorate, Ft. Belvoir, Va. The experiment is designed to demonstrate the technology associated with using a spaceborne laser receiver to detect laser energy from ground-based test locations. BLAST is being integrated and flown on the Space Shuttle under the direction of the Department of Defense's Space Test Program. BLAST is making its first flight. It will demonstrate the Army's ability to uplink Global Positioning System data through a laser medium. The test primarily will involve the use of two fixed optical tracking facilities located at the Air Force Maui Optical Site in Hawaii and the Air Force Malabar Test Facility in Palm Bay, Fla. Additionally, portable tracking sites will be set up at various DoD field locations. A low power visible laser mounted on a gimbaled tracking system will track the Shuttle, based on the most recent NASA orbiter location information. The optical signal from the tracking facilities is captured by an on-board laser receiver mounted in the Shuttle flight deck overhead window. The optical signal is processed and displayed to the flight crew real-time and recorded for post mission analysis. Data obtained will be used to develop DoD sensor technology. ------------------------------ From: Brent L. Bates ViGYAN AAD/TAB Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 07:39:44 EDT Subject: Re: Yet Another... A Mach 20 crowbar wouldn't do much, since it would be vaporized before hitting a target. :-). Brent L. Bates Phone:(804) 864-2854 M.S. 361 FAX:(804) 864-8469 NASA Langley Research Center Hampton, Virginia 23681-0001 E-mail: blbates@aero36.larc.nasa.gov or B.L.BATES@larc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ From: Joe.Lurker@Corp.Sun.COM (Joe Lurker STE) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 07:03:05 PDT Subject: Re: Falling Crowbars Now that's my idea of a *POWER* tool! Arrr, arrr, arrr! The Binford Model M20 Siding and Armor Removal Crowbar! =8^) joe {}From skunk-works-owner@ecn.purdue.edu Wed Jun 30 18:31:54 1993 {}From: larry@ichips.intel.com {}To: skunk-works@orchestra.ecn.purdue.edu {}Subject: Falling Crowbars {}Sender: skunk-works-owner@ecn.purdue.edu {}Precedence: bulk {}Content-Length: 132 {}X-Lines: 8 {} {} {} {}>Well, the crowbar was described as adequate to destroy a tank. {} {}What model Binford crowbar was that? {} {}And was that a fish tank? {} {} ------------------------------ From: Ian Woodrow Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 16:37:50 BST Subject: Anyone know anything about MiG-37 ? Exactly as I say in the heading. Can anyone give me information on this MiG-37. I believe the codename is 'Ferret'. Is it a stealth machine & has it been seen (in fact, has it even been FLOWN yet ?). Wouldn't mind one being at Zhukovsky in September! @@ WOODY____________________________________________________________________ @@@ Ian Woodrow, Computing Service, Uni of Glasgow, GLASGOW G12 8QQ, Scotland\ @@ > @ _________ FAX:__041-330-4808_____________________________________________/ ------------------------------ From: Jamie Aycock Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 12:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Terminal velocity On Thu, 1 Jul 1993, Zoz wrote: > |> Well, just what is terminal velocity for a streamlined shape that's > |> roughly 3 feet long and one inch thick? Weighing in at 10-12 pounds? > Should your Brilliant Crowbar (tm) be accelerated to Mach 20 in the > vacuum of space, it should retain a goodly percentage of that velocity > by the time it reaches the ground as it will not be in the atmosphere > long enough for the relatively weak deceleration of air resisitance > to slow it down much. Especially as it is a very streamlined shape. But you're assuming that it's going to be coming straight down through the atmosphere upright.. It would be tumbling all the way down, greatly increasing the resistance. Jamie ------------------------------ From: naa2254@dsacam.dsac.dla.mil (Tom Ohmer) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 12:58:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about MiG-37 ? In reply to the mail from ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > [] > Wouldn't mind one being at Zhukovsky in September! Or at Dayton on 24-25 July!!! ;-) Tom Ohmer, Computer Specialist, DSAC-AAA 1 614 692 8059 DLA Systems Automation Center, P.O. Box 1605, Columbus, OH 43216-5002 tohmer@dsac.dla.mil ...osu-cis!dsac!tohmer "Sorry, we're closed." -- Sam Malone ------------------------------ From: rakoczynskij@postoffice.agcs.com (Jurek Rakoczynski) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 11:17:48 MST Subject: Re: Terminal Velocity Rick Pavek wrote: > > Well, just what is terminal velocity for a streamlined shape that's > roughly 3 feet long and one inch thick? Weighing in at 10-12 pounds? The terminal velocity is "0" ... or did you mean velocity just prior to impact? :-) There was a write-up in Popular Mechanics/Science? years ago were someone asked the military the same question of a 16" shell. The answer was "0", so they rephrased the question. - -- Jurek Rakoczynski, AG Communication Systems, POB 52179, Phoenix, AZ. 85072-2179 UUCP: ...!ncar!noao!agcs.com!rakoczynskij Voice: +1 602 581 4867 Inet: rakoczynskij@agcs.com Fax: +1 602 581 4022 Inet: JUREK.RAKOCZYNSKI@gte.sprint.com ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 15:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: RC-135Q On Thu, 1 Jul 1993, Dean Adams wrote: > Mary writes: > >Just a tidbit of trivia > Great! :-) Some of you are easily pleased! :-) I've got lots of trivia; you'd better not sound too interested in it. > >I was talking to a KC-10 pilot yesterday and he told me that running > >JP-7 through the Moby absolutely trashed it. Apparently they had to > >replace valves and lines all over the plane. He said that the KC-135s > >(even the regular non-Q ones) didn't have this problem. > > Hmmm... interesting! I suppose they must have used > some newer, "better" materials for the KC-10 systems. That was my assumption, too. > I take it this means that the 10s will no longer > be used for any future NASA SR support flights? We've never used the KC-10 to refuel our SRs. We use KC-135s from the tanker group here at Edwards AFB. Craig was talking about flights flown earlier, before the Air Force retired the Blackbird. He has just been assigned to the Test Pilot School, so he's had at least two previous tours. He did this on one of those. I've forgotten if he told me where. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 14:46:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Crowbar > A Mach 20 crowbar wouldn't do much, since it would be vaporized before >hitting a target. :-). I would expect that at well Brent, but ... Binford has the answer! >Now that's my idea of a *POWER* tool! Arrr, arrr, arrr! > >The Binford Model M20 Siding and Armor Removal Crowbar! With the optional high hypersonic T/D, propulsive/ablative sheath! >> |> Well, just what is terminal velocity for a streamlined shape that's >> |> roughly 3 feet long and one inch thick? Weighing in at 10-12 pounds? >> Should your Brilliant Crowbar (tm) be accelerated to Mach 20 in the >> vacuum of space, it should retain a goodly percentage of that velocity >> by the time it reaches the ground as it will not be in the atmosphere >> long enough for the relatively weak deceleration of air resisitance >> to slow it down much. Especially as it is a very streamlined shape. >But you're assuming that it's going to be coming straight down through the >atmosphere upright.. It would be tumbling all the way down, greatly >increasing the resistance. The Binford manual indicates that the preset terminal Mach number, settable with the same rotating switch used on their popular series of torque wrenchs, is the guaranteed impact Mach number. The external propulsive properties of its ablative sheath, along with the designed-in low base drag region, the patented Binford low shock loss shape, and core DU penetrator head, guarantee it! Arrr, Arrr, Arrr !!! By the way. The shop manual cautions against breathing the dust caused by the disintigration of the DU load! >The terminal velocity is "0" ... or did you mean velocity just prior >to impact? :-) There was a write-up in Popular Mechanics/Science? >years ago were someone asked the military the same question of a 16" >shell. The answer was "0", so they rephrased the question. Terminal energy level! If I recall guys, K.E. = 1/2 MV**2; where M = Mass and V = velocity. Of course that doesn't mean much unless you can translate that to the appropriate properties required for penetrating armor of a given strength. Or how about just comparing it to the explosive energy of a given weight of TNT. Larry "Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is a War Room!" ------------------------------ From: Lee Levine Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 15:52:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Crowbar unsuscribe me ------------------------------ From: Rick Pavek Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 00:36:10 -0700 Subject: crowbars and crosshairs why does it have to tumble? Small fins could keep in aligned with the trajectory. Coat it with an adequate layer of Shuttle ceramic. In fact, it would have to be a straight flyer since it's steerable. Shape it like the type of pin with the small ball on the end. Put the seeker on the front. The 'ball' on the end could be sectioned in quarters, extend a quarter into the slipstream to steer it (like the exhaust petals on the F105 Thud - the airbrakes). Better yet, drop a pod with a cluster of them from orbit and slow them down... no, just protect them long enough to get into the atmosphere and acquire the target. Yeah (make up your mind, Rick!), you'd slow them down some. But you could do this from 80K feet just as easy and cheaper, too. Why the pin shape? Well, it works. I used them in a straw to make a crude blowgun. Stuck them into the wall (I was _very_ bored that afternoon... ;-) Rick ------------------------------ From: S.Dray@ste0402.wins.icl.co.uk Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 08:59:23 +0100 Subject: Al White and XB70 Sometime ago I wrote asking for information on an XB70 pilot who escaped the crash his Name was AL WHITE can anyone tell me anything about him. He also flew as an X project pilot with Chuck Yeager. I was given duff gen the last time round as Ed White was killed in the Apollo Fire. (Gravity is a Myth the Earth Sucks ) ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V3 #70 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". 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