From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V4 #20 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 23 September 1993 Volume 04 : Number 020 In this issue: Re: Deep Blue SR-71 Re: DOD quote on "Aurora" ?? My work with the SR-71's Re: DOD quote on "Aurora" ?? Re: DOD quote on "Aurora" ?? Re: DOD quote on "Aurora" ?? when black is not black Fri. 9/17/93 X-Files Our government is above reproach... See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent L. Bates ViGYAN AAD/TAB Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 07:38:26 EDT Subject: Re: Deep Blue SR-71 Since so many people have said that the SR's are black and the one I saw at the AF Museum in Dayton looked black to me, I'd say the photo you saw could be off color wise. I've seen things that ARE black, reproduced in photos and other types of hardcopy come out dark blue or even green. Color reproduction is almost a black art. So the colors you see in photos may not be exactly the same as the real thing. Also different lighting can change ones color perspective. Just my 2 cents worth. Brent L. Bates Phone:(804) 864-2854 M.S. 361 FAX:(804) 864-8469 NASA Langley Research Center Hampton, Virginia 23681-0001 E-mail: blbates@aero36.larc.nasa.gov or B.L.BATES@larc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ From: "Philip R. Moyer" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 08:34:55 EST Subject: Re: DOD quote on "Aurora" ?? No, this doesn't mean we've been working on operational hypersonic aircraft (though we may be). The Critical Technologies program is a part of the National Security Threat List (NSTL), most of which is classified. The technologies on the list are selected because the spread or transfer of those technologies can seriously undermine US national security, and, therefore, researchers, contractors, and other experts in these fields are strongly encouraged to be careful about security. Cheers, Phil P.S. I can dig out my copy of the NSTL if you're interested in some additional information (like what's on the list, for example :-). ------------------------------ From: ron@habu.stortek.com (Ron Schweikert) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 08:14:02 MDT Subject: My work with the SR-71's >Reply-To: albert.dobyns@mwbbs.com (Albert Dobyns) >RS-> From: ron@habu.stortek.com (Ron Schweikert) >RS-> To: skunk-works@ecn.purdue.edu >RS-> Subject: black paint on SR-71s > >RS-> I can't speak about the Palmdale birds, but I spent almost six >RS-> years crawling all over the birds at Beale. >RS-> . . . blah blah blah :-) :-) >Great! It's always nice to find someone who has direct experience with >my favorite plane: SR-71 (and its cousins). I have seen only 3 in >person and they all looked flat black to me! Also I wanted to mention >that I'm stuck with an off-line mail reader that doesn't allow me to >enter msgs to the full skunk-works address so my replies are limited to >people with ids that are short enough. Fortunately yours is! So what >sort of things did you get to do on the SR's? Or is that still >classified? Fantastic plane!! I think it will always be number 1 with >me! None of the stuff I did was classified really, although when I did them was (at the time). I was in the 9th Organizational Maintenance Squadron at Beale AFB from Feb. 1975 - Sept. 1980. Our job was general aircraft maintenance. We were responsible for the pre-flight and postflight inspections, aircraft servicing, general maintenance and support of other specialists (i.e.: the electrical, hydro people etc.). By the time I left I was the swing shift crew chief for 958 although we didn't start painting the crew chief's name on the plane until late 80 (bummer for me!). I can speak to all the mechanical details of the plane and what it was like (believe me, it got old after a few years) to work on it, but I know no more about the paint (as I've shown!), ECM or other "black" parts of the plane than what I've read. It's kinda funny, when you're working on it you think you have all the time to get that information, you just often never do. I almost always knew where it was flying, how high etc. and when (when they were training missions) but when it was a "real" mission (especially out of Kadena or Mildenhall) the map projector's circuit breakers were sealed. We knew *when* they were taking off (which was classified) but only knew unofficially *where* they were going (and we didn't try to find out!). Of course many times were obvious, such as the Panmunjom (sp?) incident in Korea where we stayed on a 4 hour launch alert. The funnest part of the job was the launch. The hard work was over. There were usually many visitors to watch and they were fun to talk to -- they were in such awe. I *never* got tired of launching it. I was real bummed when I heard they were being retired and I didn't have a chance to get out to Beale for one more launch. The hard part started when they came back. They were always broke (with the exception of 956, the trainer -- it was almost always in great shape!). Maintenance wasn't glamorous. Usually they leaked like a sieve and whoever designed the maintenance access panels had a warped sense of humor and obviously never tried to use them! Nevertheless, I look back fondly on certain aspects of those days. If I can answer any questions in that regard I'll pipe up. Mostly I'm a net lurker enjoying the very informed postings from others. I'm very intrigued by its replacement(s). Keep up the good work all -- I appreciate it as I know do others. BTW, when I got my workstation here at my new job and had to make sure the system name didn't conflict with any others--surprise, surprise, no one had taken "habu" :-) Ron ------------------------------ From: Jamie Aycock Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 12:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: DOD quote on "Aurora" ?? > P.S. I can dig out my copy of the NSTL if you're interested in some additional > information (like what's on the list, for example :-). Sure! Please do! Jamie ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 09:53:13 -0700 Subject: Re: DOD quote on "Aurora" ?? Paul McGinnis writes: >>Here's a very interesting quote I came across in the 1990 Department of >>Defense "Critical Technologies Plan" (report AD-A219 300). Sorry, I >>don't have a later copy of this document. >> >>In the section on air-breathing propulsion, you will find: >>"Hypersonic aircraft have the potential to enhance military capability >>to make high-speed intercepts and timely reconnaissance. Hypersonic >>air-breathing technology is the second highest priority effort in this >>area." (page A-154) >> >>So, is this a statement they have been working on operational hypersonic >>aircraft, Phil responds: >No, this doesn't mean we've been working on operational hypersonic aircraft (though >we may be). I'd like to clarify what Paul asked. I'd like to change it to the following: >>So, is this a statement they have been working on hypersonic >>aircraft, The answer, of course, is YES! operational? That is the goal of many useful and successful military technology development endeavors. If such a thing were 'operational' that would also indicate they had indeed been working on 'it' for some time. The current era of hypersonic craft traces it roots back over 40 years, if you include Bell's BOMI, which I think should be included, and even some of the ramjet powered upper stage German A-9/A-10 derivitive work that went on at White Sands with the old V-2's in the late 40's. Paul McGinnis writes: > such as "Aurora" ??? Even research programs have code names. Phil responds: >P.S. I can dig out my copy of the NSTL if you're interested in some additional >information (like what's on the list, for example :-). Sure. What was the 'first priority' effort in the hypersonic aircraft category? Thanks! Larry ------------------------------ From: mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 08:14:40 EDT Subject: Re: DOD quote on "Aurora" ?? Speaking of AURORA, I almost came off my seat when I watched The X Files on FOX the other night. I was wondering if anyone else caught the AURORA comments. The photo looked more like the cancelled Navy flying wing and what was the name of that Air Force Base????Ellen???? I wondered if that was supposed to be Ellis. Before anyone says it, I will..."It was just a show, not the real thing". But............v e r y i n t r e s t i n g ! Paul ------------------------------ From: Rick Pavek Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 10:29:27 -0700 Subject: when black is not black One thing to point out is when you look at a picture, the color can be off because of the developing process. They can push (or mess up) on one of the color developers and can even make yellow appear green, etc. The other thing to point out is when you take a photo (which is of dubious color registration, possibly) and print it you have to separate it with screen. That adds another level of uncertainty. THEN you have the additional risk when you actually print it... Model builders have known this for a long time... Eyewitness accounts are subjective but still the most reliable. (Well, unless the eyewitness is colorblind... ;-) Rick SR-75/XR-7 _|_*O*_|_ | Rick Pavek \ __|__ / | HA!! kuryakin@halcyon.com \_______/_(O)_\_______/ | Ruby - \___/ \___/ | Galactic Gumshoe ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 10:56:19 -0700 Subject: Fri. 9/17/93 X-Files Paul Mangan writes: >Speaking of AURORA, I almost came off my seat when I watched >The X Files on FOX the other night. I was wondering if anyone >else caught the AURORA comments. The photo looked more like >the cancelled Navy flying wing and what was the name of that >Air Force Base????Ellen???? I wondered if that was supposed >to be Ellis. I believe the name was Ellens. I agree. Definitely sounds like a clever twist of the name Nellis. The show also put the base in Idaho instead of Nevada. I showed it to another 2 airplane guys last night. One of them had already seen it and wanted to see it again. You're right, it was quite good! Very well researched! Not too overdone. Good television! I have a feeling we're going to see the 'spook' character from the ending again. Looking forward to it! >Before anyone says it, I will..."It was just a show, not the >real thing". >But............v e r y i n t r e s t i n g ! It's good that the plot has caused you to think as well. It's amazing how that just works at times isn't it? But that's what a good story is all about I guess! Larry ------------------------------ From: Rick Pavek Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 16:57:18 -0700 Subject: Our government is above reproach... NOT! To those who meekly say "The government must have a reason for keeping all those black programs secret" haven't seen this one: ACTING ARMY SECRETARY John W. Shannon yesterday pleaded guilty to charges that he shoplifted $30 worth of women's garments from the Ft. Myer, Va., exchange, and was allowed to enter a program involving counseling, community service and minor penalties in lieu of jail time or a fine. I wonder what size he wears? You have to remember that these programs are run by people. The people who designate the security classifications or manage the projects or who oversee the budgets in Congress or whatever... are all people. And people, to various degrees, have faults. They aren't perfect, nor is their judgement. The only judgement I can really trust is my own. Well, there are a few here in the skunklist I'd go so far as to take without a grain of salt. If it's black, the reason doesn't have to be "The enemy might find out". It is highly likely that "The public and/or Congress will find out how we've bushwhacked them all these years" is the real reason. Rick "OK, so I'm a curmudgeon" Pavek SR-75/XR-7 _|_*O*_|_ | Rick Pavek \ __|__ / | HA!! kuryakin@halcyon.com \_______/_(O)_\_______/ | Ruby - \___/ \___/ | Galactic Gumshoe ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V4 #20 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@ecn.purdue.edu". 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