From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V4 #64 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 16 November 1993 Volume 04 : Number 064 In this issue: Re: NBC News - CIA Photos RE: NBC News - CIA Photos Re: NBC News - CIA Photos Re: NBC News - CIA Photos Aero Digest excerpt Satellite/aerial photos of Groom Lake (was: NBC News - CIA Photos) Re: NBC News - CIA Photos See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jamie Aycock Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 11:34:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: NBC News - CIA Photos On Sun, 14 Nov 1993, Brent L. Bates ViGYAN AAD/TAB wrote: > This isn't exactally skunk-works related, however, did anyone see > NBC news Friday night? They had a short story that said the CIA would > start selling some of there satalite photos. I guess they are trying I thought the CIA had simply dropped its objections to US companies selling photo recon-type information. I can't imagine the CIA selling photos, but nowadays... Jamie ------------------------------ From: "DISNEY::KELLEHER"@hobbes.consilium.com Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 9:31:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: NBC News - CIA Photos Brent L. Bates writes: > NBC also showed a photo that had been leaked to the press some time > back. The photo was taken by a satalite over 200 miles up and had better > than 1 FOOT resolution. It was of some ship yard. Pretty impressive. > It makes you wonder about the photos we haven't seen. I didn't see the show, but I suspect it was the classic case of satellite imagery leaks. The culprit was an analyst at NISC (Naval Intelligence Support Center). He decided he would make some money on the side by selling images to Jane's Defense Weekly. He "sanitized" a classified photo of carrier construction at Nikolaev Shipyard by literally cutting the classification markings off of the photo and mailing it to Jane's. Of course the photo was the cover picture and story in the following edition. The gentleman, a reserve Lieutenant Commander, was the grandson (great- nephew?) of one of the US Navy's greatest historians, Samuel Elliot Morrison. It appears he was rather stupid. He has since been reassigned to a posting at Leavenworth (or possible Marion) where he will have a very long assignment. We used the story while training our imagery interpreters on things *not* to do while dealing with classified materials. John Kelleher johnk@consilium.com ------------------------------ From: Brent L. Bates ViGYAN AAD/TAB Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 15:33:34 -0500 Subject: Re: NBC News - CIA Photos The story gave me the impression that the CIA would be selling them. However, you know how the media can screw things up. Brent L. Bates Phone:(804) 864-2854 M.S. 361 FAX:(804) 864-8469 NASA Langley Research Center Hampton, Virginia 23681-0001 E-mail: blbates@aero36.larc.nasa.gov or B.L.BATES@larc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ From: Bruce Henderson Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:47:45 -0800 Subject: Re: NBC News - CIA Photos >> NBC also showed a photo that had been leaked to the press some time >> back. The photo was taken by a satalite over 200 miles up and had >> better than 1 FOOT resolution. It was of some ship yard. > >That is an old one. A KH-11 photo of a Soviet carrier under construction. > >>Pretty impressive. It makes you wonder about the photos we haven't seen. >Plenty, i'm sure! There is actually a standard "blur" process that all photos go through (at least they did when I was involved) before they went to the public. There is actually alot that can be learned about the sensor by studying the image that comes out of it. Most of the time they are more interested in protecting the resolution of the sensor and the way that the optics / whatever work. I think it is high time we entered the market. We have images, even when blurred that no one else can obtain... Oh yeah... and as far as getting sat images of Groom, this may come as a surprise, but there are areas where out sats don't look. Not that they can't but the folks who control the targets for sensor information try to make sure that eyes are averted at the proper time. Need to know don't you know. We had/have an expression, let's help keep honest people honest. Bruce ------------------------------ From: Rick Pavek Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 14:40:07 -0800 Subject: Aero Digest excerpt This may spark some interest... Aerospace Daily Article 8 11/15/1993 Article:16401 What's Ahead: 'PROJECT ELEGANT LADY' is so tightly held that it doesn't appear in the Air Force's budget requests for FY '94. BASIC BLACK: The Air Force has a black tactical R&D program called "Project Elegant Lady" which is so tightly held that neither its name or project element number-PE 0208040F-appear in the service's budget requests for fiscal year 1994. Other black programs, such as "Olympic," "Meridian" and "Have Flag," all show up in the AF budget documents, with blanked-out funding lines. "Have Flag's" PE number is close to that of "Elegant Lady"-0208042F. SR-75/XR-7 _|_*O*_|_ | Rick Pavek \ __|__ / | HA!! kuryakin@halcyon.com \_______/_(O)_\_______/ | Ruby - \___/---\___/ | Galactic Gumshoe ------------------------------ From: Rich Thomson Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 16:02:19 MST Subject: Satellite/aerial photos of Groom Lake (was: NBC News - CIA Photos) In message <9311151947.AA18097@pages.com> Bruce Henderson writes: > Oh yeah... and as far as getting sat images of Groom, this may come as a > surprise, but there are areas where out sats don't look. Has anyone on this list attempted to search the USGS aerial photo archives to see if (possibly old) pictures of the Groom Lake area could be obtained? I have the form and address, but I haven't done the search request yet. I thought perhaps someone on this list might have already made such an attempt. As far as satellite images go... I realize that Landsat/EOSat probably wouldn't be too forthcoming with any imagery, but what about Russian/SPOT sources for imagery? It would be ironic that the only way to obtain sat. images of Groom would be to go through the cash-strapped Russians, but that's the nature of competition in a free market, isn't it? -- Rich - -- Between stimulus and response is the will to choose. ------------------------------------------------------------------ IRC: _Rich_ Rich Thomson Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com Fractal Freak ------------------------------ From: Michael Matthew Guslick Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 22:33:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: NBC News - CIA Photos Rich Thomson wrote: As far as satellite images go... I realize that Landsat/EOSat probably wouldn't be too forthcoming with any imagery, but what about Russian/SPOT sources for imagery? It would be ironic that the only way to obtain sat. images of Groom would be to go through the cash-strapped Russians, but that's the nature of competition in a free market, isn't it? Actually, according to an informational letter from the Secrecy Oversight Council, a mere $2000 will get you a detailed Russian satelite photo of the base. So, anybody wanna chip in to get one? (half-serious here) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Guslick / ^ \ USnail: 711 Hwy. C NAR #53962 ---(.)==<-.->==(.)--- Grafton, WI 53024 michaelg@csd4.csd.uwm.edu SR-71 Blackbird ph.: (414) 377-4428 IRC: HaveBlue TIP #112 LIBERATE GROOM LAKE - SUPPORT THE SOC - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BLACKBIRDS ARE BEAUTIFUL ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V4 #64 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". 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