From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V4 #82 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 5 December 1993 Volume 04 : Number 082 In this issue: Re: OTH Groom Lake photos Groom Lake photos See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Erling Blad Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 13:00:27 +0100 Subject: Re: OTH Ok, I do not say anyone lies, I only say that the current description is not very.. likely ...esp if you compare with the necessary support. On the other hand someone saw something, but from there to the point of stating that this thing have an OTH radar aboard is a very long step.. John ------------------------------ From: Lou Dellaverson Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 10:28:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Groom Lake photos Hi guys, Thought I would chip in on this discussion with: There has been much talk lately about ordering overhead imagery of Groom Lake. I just thoght I would pass along some data before people plunked down their money. All of this is attributed to open sources. SPOT: SPOT3 (cuurent sattelite) is a line scanning sensor. This means that the processor is left on and everything that passes under the bird is imaged in a line of pixels. Even when they move the bird's view off center line (makes for some strange images). The scan lines are pulled from the imaging array every 1/60 of a second. This with the orbital geometry dictates the limitations on resolution. Its more complicated than that, but unless someone wants to know, take the short expliantion. This limits you to 10 meters panachromatic and 30 meters multi-spectral. What can you see in 10 meters? The imagery I am using is good enough to detect the SA-3 sites used for point defense around Bashra, but not good enough to tell if there are actually missiles in the revetments. Go out side and measure 10 meters on the ground. That is the smallest thing you can see. SPOT image processing: The only acurate spots on the image are directly under the bird (center line), everything else is dislocated. The image must be orthorectified to correct this. SPOT's processing leaves much to be desired (1500m inaccuracies are common). To get any location accuratacy don't forgat to ask for an image with control points (pixel locations that have lat/long associated with them). They charge extra for this, and it is only meaningfull if you get the image in digital form, not hardcopy. Use on the net: Even if you buy a ground station ( Matra Corp - ~$5 million), SPOT retains the copyright to the image. Unlike Playboy and Penthouse, they sue over violations. And they usually win. So don't plan on spreading the picture around. Soviet satellite: The Soviets use a film return system. So all that is available is hardcopy. Also this means that it is a framimg sensor. Individual images have to be planned and the bird pointed. Contact the Russian Embassy for imagery. Soviet stuff is usually 5 foot. This is good enough to pick out the bombers from the tankers, and to id which bombers are nuclear and which are not. s with SPOT hardcopy, geolocation data is not meaningfull here without significant processing capability. Thought I would pass this along to help you make a choice on what you want to do. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lou Dellaverson lpd@metronet.com When the horse is dead, get off !!! ------------------------------ From: Lou Dellaverson Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 10:28:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Groom Lake photos Hi guys, Thought I would chip in on this discussion with: There has been much talk lately about ordering overhead imagery of Groom Lake. I just thoght I would pass along some data before people plunked down their money. All of this is attributed to open sources. SPOT: SPOT3 (cuurent sattelite) is a line scanning sensor. This means that the processor is left on and everything that passes under the bird is imaged in a line of pixels. Even when they move the bird's view off center line (makes for some strange images). The scan lines are pulled from the imaging array every 1/60 of a second. This with the orbital geometry dictates the limitations on resolution. Its more complicated than that, but unless someone wants to know, take the short expliantion. This limits you to 10 meters panachromatic and 30 meters multi-spectral. What can you see in 10 meters? The imagery I am using is good enough to detect the SA-3 sites used for point defense around Bashra, but not good enough to tell if there are actually missiles in the revetments. Go out side and measure 10 meters on the ground. That is the smallest thing you can see. SPOT image processing: The only acurate spots on the image are directly under the bird (center line), everything else is dislocated. The image must be orthorectified to correct this. SPOT's processing leaves much to be desired (1500m inaccuracies are common). To get any location accuratacy don't forgat to ask for an image with control points (pixel locations that have lat/long associated with them). They charge extra for this, and it is only meaningfull if you get the image in digital form, not hardcopy. Use on the net: Even if you buy a ground station ( Matra Corp - ~$5 million), SPOT retains the copyright to the image. Unlike Playboy and Penthouse, they sue over violations. And they usually win. So don't plan on spreading the picture around. Soviet satellite: The Soviets use a film return system. So all that is available is hardcopy. Also this means that it is a framimg sensor. Individual images have to be planned and the bird pointed. Contact the Russian Embassy for imagery. Soviet stuff is usually 5 foot. This is good enough to pick out the bombers from the tankers, and to id which bombers are nuclear and which are not. s with SPOT hardcopy, geolocation data is not meaningfull here without significant processing capability. Thought I would pass this along to help you make a choice on what you want to do. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lou Dellaverson lpd@metronet.com When the horse is dead, get off !!! ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V4 #82 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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