From: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V4 #123 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 20 January 1994 Volume 04 : Number 123 In this issue: Great fun.. Re: Great fun.. Great fun.. Re: Great fun.. Re: Great fun.. Groom Lake Article in 2.02 Wired What's an MD-21? Re: Great fun.. Re: What's an MD-21? Re: Groom Lake Article in 2.02 Wired Re: What's an MD-21? Visual masking Subscribe Wind-up clocks in aircraft oops on SR clock Re: oops on SR clock See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Erling Blad Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 10:03:18 +0100 Subject: Great fun.. If anyone is ready to really upset the security people at Groo Lake they can do somethin a frend of mine tried to in Lebanon. He own a small radiocontrolled modell car which he and his frends planed to drive up to a check point for IDF. They knew it will be ehh *broken* but they dont bother with this minor problem. The real problem was when their chief heard about the plan.. Then they were ordered to drop it. What about to do something like this at Groom? It is wery hard to verify who have controll over such a thing, esp if you have a small camera aboard som you stay out of line of sight. What fun buzzzing aroundin hangars with a tail of mechs trying to catch it.. O boy this will be fun. John ------------------------------ From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn_Remseth?= Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 12:48:35 +0100 Subject: Re: Great fun.. > What about to do something like this at Groom? It is wery hard to verify who > have controll over such a thing, esp if you have a small camera aboard som Very hard? Every standard radi-car control device I know about is very simple to detect. All you need is couple of RDF devices with wide-bandwidth receivers. I would think it highly probable that a high security site like have this kind of equipment. Now, if you let your car be controlled by spread-spectrum, burst-mode transmissions you might have a chance. If you add other stealth characteristica to it, you might have a better chance, but then again maybe not. But all this stuff about breaking security at Groom isn't very exiting to read about, I certainly won't post anything more about it, and I hope a few other will take this as the hint it is intended to be. ------------------------------ From: John Erling Blad Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 10:03:18 +0100 Subject: Great fun.. If anyone is ready to really upset the security people at Groo Lake they can do somethin a frend of mine tried to in Lebanon. He own a small radiocontrolled modell car which he and his frends planed to drive up to a check point for IDF. They knew it will be ehh *broken* but they dont bother with this minor problem. The real problem was when their chief heard about the plan.. Then they were ordered to drop it. What about to do something like this at Groom? It is wery hard to verify who have controll over such a thing, esp if you have a small camera aboard som you stay out of line of sight. What fun buzzzing aroundin hangars with a tail of mechs trying to catch it.. O boy this will be fun. John ------------------------------ From: John Erling Blad Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:14:13 +0100 Subject: Re: Great fun.. I know it is simple to detect, the problem for the security people is they cant prove that you did it. Unless they see you manage to correlate the operation of the equipment and the car. As to SS an stealth, you simply dont need it, the point is to *show* what you are doing. If they get to you you will probably first be nailed, then they will hire you becase this is the simplest way to controll what you are doing. Eg. you are then under the *national security act* or somthing like that. I dont think anyone at Groom will be really anoyed about this posting because 1) They have spoted activity in the mountains sorounding the base 2) They have connected the people with this list 3) They have already logged my post 4) In a day or two I will be told about my post from other, and I dont think the people at Groom is less clever. So I more or less state that someone is logging the activity on this list, but is there anyone who dont think so? Shure there is! Security people is not less interested in skunk works. A mail list like this is just to interesting if you are going to log what the community knows about specific project. Perhaps this sounds paranoid but okey its a paranoid world. If someone dont like what I write, well thats bad but I cant do anything about other peoples feelings. If UiO dont like it, okey I change machine no problem. Now something real fun, is there anyone out there who remember the videorecording of the strange object somewhere over BeNeLux? I have written about this some time ago but it seems to gone somewhere else, I cant remember reading anything about it on the mail list. The interesting point as I remember is the object (dont like UFO) moved like a plane, can this be some sort of testvehicle for something similar to the ehh boomsuppressor mentioned in an earlyer posting? As I remember the *plane* moved a litle faster that mach 1, but none reported hearing any boom. Except for many people reporting the chase planes. John ------------------------------ From: PHARABOD@frcpn11.in2p3.fr Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 17:03:44 MET Subject: Re: Great fun.. >Now something real fun, is there anyone out there who remember the >videorecording of the strange object somewhere over BeNeLux? I have written >about this some time ago but it seems to gone somewhere else, I cant remember >reading anything about it on the mail list. The interesting point as I >remember is the object (dont like UFO) moved like a plane, can this be some >sort of testvehicle for something similar to the ehh boomsuppressor mentioned >in an earlyer posting? > >As I remember the *plane* moved a litle faster that mach 1, but none >reported hearing any boom. Except for many people reporting the chase planes. >John Erling Blad (Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:14:13 +0100) - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is the transcript of one of the contacts: Seconds after Heading Speed Altitude lock-on (degrees) (knots) (feet) 00 200 150 7000 01 200 150 7000 02 200 150 7000 03 200 150 7000 04 sharp 200 acceleration 150 6000 05 turn 270 = 22 g 560 6000 06 270 560 6000 07 270 570 6000 08 270 560 7000 09 270 550 7000 10 210 560 9000 11 210 570 10000 12 210 560 11000 13 210 570 10000 14 270 770 7000 15 270 770 6000 16 270 780 6000 17 270 790 5000 18 290 1010 4000 19 290 1000 3000 20 290 990 2000 21 290 990 1000 22 300 990 0000 22.5 300 980 0000 Break lock When you see for example altitude 5000, this means between 4500 and 5500. So 0000 means between 0 and 500. 0 is sea level; mean ground altitude in this area is about 200 feet (therefore 0000 means in fact between 200 and 500). Also, the time unit was not really second but something like 25/30 second (and therefore the mean acceleration between time 04 and time 05 was 26 g instead of 22g). Not any bang was heard. The Belgian military don't exclude that these were false echoes, but say that the probability is very low (same malfunction of 3 or 4 same elements on 2 different F-16 radars). J. Pharabod ------------------------------ From: wasg@cs.rice.edu (Eric Salituro) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 10:27:17 -0500 Subject: Groom Lake Article in 2.02 Wired Wired Magazine's February issue features a profile on Steve Douglass and others who monitor DoD black programs. Included is a sidebar piece on Groom Lake featuring a composite of 2 stills apparently taken from Freedom Ridge. All in the all, the article seems to be quite flattering, but alas, doesn't mention this esteemed mailing list. -eric ------------------------------ From: MP%MPA15C@MPA15AB.mv-oc.Unisys.COM Date: 19 JAN 94 08:31 Subject: What's an MD-21? OK, I'll admit that I am completely ignorant of the M-21, the D-21 and the MD-21. Would someone please enlighten me? Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________ Mark Perew (714) 380-5484 | Proud native of the city made infamous mp@mpa15c.mv-oc.unisys.com | by "Roger & Me" and the sequel "Pets and cb103@cleveland.freenet.edu | Meat." ============== "All opinions are mine," sayeth the poster ============== ------------------------------ From: John Erling Blad Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 18:52:11 +0100 Subject: Re: Great fun.. >The Belgian military don't exclude that these were false echoes, but >say that the probability is very low (same malfunction of 3 or 4 same >elements on 2 different F-16 radars). Now, if the air is ionizised (??) and the plane is turning out of a "cloud" (Im speculating and totaly out of controll..) which sourounds it (boundrary layer) can it be possible for the radar to track the cloud and then as this dispearse, reackuire (??) the plane? One other teory I like (this teory is mine, and noone elses (!)) is that the hole story is a coverup (!) and the real interesting subject is the chaseplane. What I will like to know is WHERE WAS THE PLANES THE LAST 3 MONTHS. John Disclaimer: I have no reason to belive that anyone or anybody or any country I knew of is invilved with anything thay shall not do or are allowed to do by theire goverment. If I have forgot something please include it. ------------------------------ From: megazone@WPI.EDU (MegaZone) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 13:14:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: What's an MD-21? Once upon a time MP%MPA15C@MPA15AB.mv-oc.Unisys.COM shaped the electrons to say... >OK, I'll admit that I am completely ignorant of the M-21, the D-21 >and the MD-21. The M-12 is the Mothership version of the A-12 Blackbird. The A-12 was the first Blackbird operated by the CIA. It was the ancestor to the much more famous SR-71 Blackbird. The A-12 was a single seat recon aircraft. The M-12 was a conversion with a second rear facing seat and equipment to carry a drone on a dorsal pylon. That drone was the D-21, which I've also seen as the GTD-21D. It was a high-speed ramjet powered recon drone. It looked something like an SR-71 engine nacelle with wings. The mated pair has been referred to as the MD-21, Mothership & Drone. - -- megazone@wpi.wpi.edu megazone@world.std.com megazone@hotblack.schunix.dmc.com "I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity. Use your mind, think!" Moderator: WPI anime FTP site, 130.215.24.1 /anime, the anime FanFic archive; rec.arts.anime.stories, questions to anime-dojinshi-request@wpi.wpi.edu GTW d-- -p+ c++(++++) l u+ e+ m+(*)@ s++/+ !n h- f+ !g w+ t+@ r+@ y+(*) ------------------------------ From: Rich Thomson Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 11:44:18 MST Subject: Re: Groom Lake Article in 2.02 Wired In message <9401191626.AA20199@cs.rice.edu> wasg@cs.rice.edu (Eric Salituro) writes: > Wired Magazine's February issue features a profile on Steve Douglass and > others who monitor DoD black programs. > > Included is a sidebar piece on Groom Lake featuring a composite of 2 stills > apparently taken from Freedom Ridge. I just looked at my copy of Wired and the composite photos are the same two stills that were published in the Salt Lake Tribune, which in turn I scanned in and made available as GroomLake.jpg. We saw it first! 8-) -- Rich - -- Between stimulus and response is the will to choose. ------------------------------------------------------------------ IRC: _Rich_ Rich Thomson Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com Fractal Freak ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:21:33 -0800 Subject: Re: What's an MD-21? >That drone was the D-21, which I've also seen as the GTD-21D. I'm pretty sure there was just the GTD-21A (M-12 launched), and the GTD-21B, B-52 launched... ------------------------------ From: john.stone@shivasys.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 15:51:09 Subject: Visual masking I was recently talking to someone who said that the govt. is working on a way to visually mask an object(not Stealth), but so that either the view of the object is obscured or makes it unreconizable to the eye! This could be used on anything from troops to tanks and ships and planes. Apparently it works on the same principal as the noise-cancelling head phone that pilots use. Have any of you out there heard any thing about this? On the question about whether the SR has a wind-up clock in it. Yes it does the SR at the USAF Mueseum (#976) still works. I had the opurtunity to view the cockpit recently and the clock wasn't working we wound ti up and it kept time at least for the hour and a half we were there! John Stone /john.stone@shivasys.com ------------------------------ From: Bill Upton-Knittle Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 14:56 PST Subject: Subscribe Subscribe skunk-works Bill Knittle ------------------------------ From: freeman@MasPar.COM (Jay R. Freeman) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 15:35:09 -0800 Subject: Wind-up clocks in aircraft I was the original poster here, mostly as humor. I recall wind-up clocks from lightplanes a few decades ago. Indeed, until the rather recent availability of electronic oscillators of stable frequency in cockpit conditions, a mechanical device was probably the lightest and most reliable way to maintain accurate time, and it is also provides one more instrument that remains working in the event of total electrical failure. -- Jay Freeman ------------------------------ From: ron@habu.stortek.com (Ron Schweikert) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:58:28 MST Subject: oops on SR clock >On the question about whether the SR has a wind-up clock in it. Yes it does the >SR at the USAF Mueseum (#976) still works. I had the opurtunity to view the >cockpit recently and the clock wasn't working we wound ti up and it kept time >at least for the hour and a half we were there! > >John Stone /john.stone@shivasys.com Hmm. I stand corrected. It's been a long time since I pre-flighted one. I remembered a knob, but I thought it was for setting the time. I don't recall ever winding it, but hey, that's what the years do to your brain! Cheers, Ron ------------------------------ From: freeman@MasPar.COM (Jay R. Freeman) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:43:28 -0800 Subject: Re: oops on SR clock ... and if you forget to wind up the knob, so that it gets all unwound in flight, both turbines spin slowly to a halt and the aircraft glides gently to the ground ... :-) ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V4 #123 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". 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