From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #13 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 16 February 1994 Volume 05 : Number 013 In this issue: Saab A36 Swedish planes & delta wings Re: the 'Hustler', what happened to them Land grab (was: Re: Skunk Works V5 #10) Raptor crash Re: the 'Hustler', what happened to them Re: Land grab (was: Re: Skunk Works V5 #10) to: who ever is the list owner See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: urf@ki.icl.se (Urban Fredriksson) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 10:48:59 MET Subject: Saab A36 (From an old article by me:) CANCELLED SAAB PROJECTS 1993 Feb 05 <...> SWEDEN'S NUCLEAR BOMBER (that never was) or A 36, the 'missing' aircraft between 35 and 37 In issue 4/1991 of the magazine Flygrevyn there is an article the Saab project 1300, which later were given the Air Force designation A 36, although it was never built. In the late 1940's work was started on getting Sweden nuclear weapons, which studies showed would be technically and economically feasible. In 1952 Saab started designing an aircraft with long range, large weapon load and high speed as 'Project 1300'. It was equipped with a single seat, straight delta wing with 62 degrees sweepback, chin intake and internal weapon bay. (The latter _only_ because of concerns about accidental detonation due to the high temperatures air friction would cause.) Primary weapon would be a 600-800 kg free fall nuclear weapon. Length: 17 m Span: 9,6 m Wing area: 54 square meters Empty weight: 9000 kg Max load: 1500 kg Fuel: 4000 kg Max take off weight: 15000 kg Engine: Bristol Olympus Thrust/weight ratio (take off): 0,73 Max speed: Mach 2,14 above 11 km; mach 1,2 at low altitude Radius of action: 410 km Ceiling: 18 km Take off run: 490 m The project was cancelled in 1957 and all resources concentrated on Viggen. However, it wasn't until 1966 parliament finally decided Sweden wasn't going to get nuclear weapons. <...> (end included article) The magazine mentions Bomarc as an alternative. A 36 would not have been armed with missiles, but earlier in the 1940's a short range nuclear missile was designed for our A 32A Lansens. - -- Urban Fredriksson urf@icl.se ------------------------------ From: jason@minster.york.ac.uk Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 11:08:13 Subject: Swedish planes & delta wings What reasons are there for the apparent dominance of delta-wing configurations in Swedish aircraft? Does it improve STOL capability and/or aerial manoevarability (sp?)? One of my greatest childhood memories is standing on a bridge near my home watching the Viggen doing its display at the Farnborough Air Show. The noise was >phenomenal< even from about 2 miles away! Shame I live so far from there now... jason ------------------------------ From: (Thorongil) Paul Adams Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 08:23:21 CST Subject: Re: the 'Hustler', what happened to them > From: larry@ichips.intel.com > Subject: Re: the 'Hustler', what happened to them > > The 8 surviving airframes are mostly gate guardians and a few are in museums. > The best is at the AF Museum in Dayton. [ List deleted ] I thought that there was a B-58 down at the museum in Pensacola, Florida. Mind you, I have never been to the museum, but I could have sworn that I saw on a tourist brochure where they had one. I'll have to try and dig up the brochure. Paul \ ___ / Paul Adams \ /___\ / paul@erc.msstate.edu ____________\___/__.__\___/____________ YF-22 \ \ / / \__/\___/\__/ ------------------------------ From: andrem@pyramid.com (Andre Molyneux) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 09:01:28 -0800 Subject: Land grab (was: Re: Skunk Works V5 #10) Jack-Lee Gibbons wrote: > My third reason for the Air Force not grabbing up the 3000+ acres is >that public lands all over the United States are dissapearing and even >with all of the proposed base closings, the military still owns a huge >amount of land that could be used by the public, seeing as how we pay for >it! If we don't take an interest in the use and control of public lands, >we might as well just give it all away to whomever asks for it. [end of excerpt from Jack-Lee Gibbons] Most people don't realize just how much land is controlled by the Federal Government out here in the West. My father was involved in the "Sagebrush Rebellion", which was an attempt to get some of the "public" land in Nevada away from federal control. According to figures published in the newspapers at that time, 87% of the land in Nevada is controlled by the federal government, most of it administered by the BLM. Look at an atlas - Nevada is a big State, and almost all of it is owned by Uncle Sam, not by the residents of the State. The BLM has been very cooperative with the military whenever they want to add onto a restricted area, and there have been numerous allegations of the BLM and the military "cutting deals" with little or no input from the citizens of the State. Based on the amount of wasted money and duplicate projects previously exposed within the Pentagon's "black budget", the Air Force should be required to provide proof that the additional land is really needed. Giving them a blank check to grab land is like giving them a blank check for funding - without real oversight, abuses and waste _will_ occur. Andre - -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andre Molyneux KA7WVV "Insert your favorite disclaimer here" | +-----------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | -=-------- PYRAMID TECHNOLOGY CORP |Internet: | | ---===------ 3860 N. First Street | andrem@pyramid.com | | -----=====---- San Jose, CA |Packet: | |-------=======-- (408) 428-8229 | ka7wvv@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na | +-----------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: urf@ki.icl.se (Urban Fredriksson) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 19:28:12 MET Subject: Raptor crash On Feb 1:st a Raptor UAV crashed on the Edwards AFB test range after flying for 32 h between 15000 and 20000 ft when switching from one to the other of its two autopilots. Naturally an autopilot fault is suspected. The 20 m span vehicle was "virtually destroyed", but parts of it may be used to build a second prototype by Scaled Composites. Fortunately the prototype wasn't flying with the 60 kW Rotax modified for altitudes above 65000 ft. On Feb 4:th, a propulsion demonstrator for the missile part of the system flew succesfully to 5000 ft altitude during a 1 min test flight. [Flight International 16-22 Feb 1994] - -- Urban Fredriksson urf@icl.se ------------------------------ From: Alistair M Henderson Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 20:06:50 GMT Subject: Re: the 'Hustler', what happened to them >I thought that there was a B-58 down at the museum in Pensacola, Florida. I was at the Pensacola Museum in 1989 and I'm pretty sure they didn't have a B-58 then. I don't think that they've got one since but I could be wrong. Alistair Henderson Email: ceeamh@cee.hw.ac.uk ------------------------------ From: Rich Thomson Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 13:20:29 MST Subject: Re: Land grab (was: Re: Skunk Works V5 #10) In message <9402150901.ZM28922@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com> andrem@pyramid.com (Andre Molyneux) writes: > Most people don't realize just how much land is controlled by the > Federal Government out here in the West. Utah too has 80+% federal ownership, again most of it through BLM. I can think of the following military installations in Utah: Hill Air Force Base in Ogden, Dugway Proving Ground (biological and chemical weapons testing), Tooele Army Depot (chemical weapons storage facility), Eagle Test Range (bombing and gunnery range on the western edge of the Great Salt Lake Desert), and I'm sure there are more that are secret whose existence has never been publicly acknowledged as well as others I don't know about. > Giving them a blank check to grab > land is like giving them a blank check for funding - without real > oversight, abuses and waste _will_ occur. If you don't think that the government will trample the rights of citizens when given the chance to do so without public scrutiny, I call your attention to the recent release of "TOP SECRET" information by the DOE which shows that radiation experiments were performed on citizens WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT OR KNOWLEDGE. Eternal vigilence is indeed the price of liberty. -- Rich - -- Between stimulus and response is the will to choose. ------------------------------------------------------------------ IRC: _Rich_ Rich Thomson Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com Fractal Freak ------------------------------ From: steveje@videocrash.tv.tek.com Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 17:07:26 -0800 Subject: to: who ever is the list owner Who ever is the list owner please e-mail me... I need to change my e-mail address and I am having problems with the majordomo i/f.... thanks, Steve Jensen =========================================== E-Mail: Stephen.P.Jensen@tek.com US Mail: Stephen P. Jensen Digital Television Television Systems Division Tektronix, Inc. P.O. Box 500, M/S 58-100 Beaverton, OR 97077 ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #13 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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