From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #16 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 20 February 1994 Volume 05 : Number 016 In this issue: Kingfish "The Mysteries of Area 51" (WLVI-TV) Look what I can do--anyone interested? Re: Kingfish Here's how we'll work it See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hoel@umiacs.UMD.EDU Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:06:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Kingfish Taking a tangent to the recent discussion about the Hustler, I read the following in Jay Miller's Skunk Works book and am hoping that someone could add to the info. From page 115 of the chapter on Gusto, Oxcart, and the YF-12, Jay Miller writes (concerning the competing General Dynamics and Lockheed proposals to the CIA request in the fall of 1958 for a high-speed, high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft): The General Dynamics team had devoted no less time and energy to their proposal. Developed from a proposed B-58 parasite known in its later stages as "Super Hustler", it continued to evolve during the one year study period. During its later stages, it was given the strange codename of "Fish", and then still later, "Kingfish". In the later configuration, it was an extraordinary vehicle. Carrying a crew of two (seated side-by- side) and a large sensor package, it was optimized to cruise at Mach 6.25 at an altitude of 125,000 feet. Radically, it was to have been built primarily of pyro-ceram and other heat-resistant, radar attenuating materials. Two Marquardt ramjets were to propel it throughout the cruise portion of its mission, and two retractible General Electric J85 turbojets were to provide propulsion during takeoff, acceleration to ramjet ignition, and landing. Can anyone comment on this beast?! Erik Hoel hoel@cs.umd.edu ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 18-Feb-1994 0748 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 10:13:27 EST Subject: "The Mysteries of Area 51" (WLVI-TV) Last night, I caught a "sweeps-week" special report entitled "The Mysteries of Area 51" on WLVI-TV's 10:00 news. WLVI, Ch. 56, is an independent Boston station (All Star Trek, All The Time) owned by Gannett, who own a number of broadcast outlets and newspapers across the country, including USA Today. This must have been a multipart series, as last night's segment was billed by the anchor as "the conclusion". :-( In the piece, reporter Jim Smith and cameraman Brian Sullivan rode with Glenn Campbell up to what appeared to be, but was not identified as, Freedom Ridge, for a good look at what was purported to be Groom Lake AFB. (Those of you who have been there, feel free to correct me here. I have no knowledge if a Chevy K-5 Blazer or anything else can drive up to Freedom Ridge.) Davis said Sullivan stayed in the truck to avoid being seen by security personnel. In one shot, Campbell and Smith were on a ridge overlooking "Groom"; the base appeared pretty much as described/photographed by the various folks who've been out there. Other notable sequences were: -- F-111s or Tornados, and F-16s, doing low-level manuvering over another base (base wasn't identified; could have been Nellis (?)) -- Night shots of the evening "light show", including a stationary strobe-like event and a series of lights that were similar to a near-dead on shot of IR decoy flares being dropped from an aircraft, but less intense. This sequence was much clearer and had much more detail than the NBC tape shown last year. -- A night shot of a flyover of a vehicle with the following light pattern: + + == white + X == red + x ----> apparent direction of flight + + + -- Long distance daytime shot of a stationary Blazer-like SUV; this was identified by Smith as a "security vehicle observing our activities" -- A still photo of the Testors SR-75/XR-7 combination, identified as "Aurora". -- Videotape from WFAA-TV in Dallas showing an HH-60 identified as a "Groom Lake security patrol", accompanied with other shots of a USAF security truck. Smith described an incident in which a WFAA news crew was detained by security personnel in the Nevada Test Site area last year. The land acquisition was mentioned, and Campbell discussed his reasons for trying to keep the land out of military hands. Normally one would assume that television would amplify the extremes of any issue, just due to the nature of the medium, but Campbell himself brought up both arguments (necessity for military security vs. need for public oversight). I thought the segment as presented made his position appear more tenable, as opposed to the self-serving nature of some of the folks in in the Popular Science article, as presented by the author. It would be interesting to see if this series appears on any Gannett stations or other outlets. Sure wish I'd have seen the earlier segment(s). George George Allegrezza | "I like men who are tall, skinny, ugly, and Digital Equipment Corporation | mean, and Alan Simpson's already married." Littleton MA USA | -- Mary Matalin, on James Carville allegrezza@tnpubs.enet.dec.com | ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 11:15:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Look what I can do--anyone interested? If I ask nicely and if it's small enough, I can get somethingthing carried in the SR during flights. Bob is taking some patches for me today, for example. While I don't want to be inundated with objects to be flown, I'll be glad to get a packet put onboard for an upcoming flight. Patches are the best--one or two per person, I think. It's my impression that I can have a couple of cubic inches, but not much more. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 11:54:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Kingfish Erik Hoel writes: >Taking a tangent to the recent discussion about the Hustler, I read the >following in Jay Miller's Skunk Works book and am hoping that someone could >add to the info. > >>From page 115 of the chapter on GUSTO, OXCART, and the YF-12, Jay Miller >writes (concerning the competing General Dynamics and Lockheed proposals >to the CIA request in the fall of 1958 for a high-speed, high-altitude >reconnaissance aircraft): > > The General Dynamics team had devoted no less time and energy to their > proposal. Developed from a proposed B-58 parasite known in its later > stages as "Super Hustler", Miller is correct here. However SUPER HUSTLER was NOT for the CIA and the reconnaissance mission. SUPER HUSTLER was a proposal to the USAF for a high altitude high Mach (Mach 4+) strategic bombing system. SUPER HUSTLER was ramjet powered, and manned. It was carried under the B-58A in place of the B-58's weapons pod. This was one of the more intriguing aspects to the Hustler. Drawings of SUPER HUSTLER, from the Convair blueprints, have previously been posted to skunk-works by Rick Pavek. > it continued to evolve during the one year > study period. During its later stages, it was given the strange codename > of "FISH", Miller is correct here. > and then still later, "KINGFISH". Miller is correct here. > In the later configuration, > it was an extraordinary vehicle. Carrying a crew of two (seated side-by- > side) and a large sensor package, it was optimized to cruise at Mach 6.25 > at an altitude of 125,000 feet. Radically, it was to have been built > primarily of pyro-ceram and other heat-resistant, radar attenuating > materials. Two Marquardt ramjets were to propel it throughout the cruise > portion of its mission, and two retractible General Electric J85 turbojets > were to provide propulsion during takeoff, acceleration to ramjet > ignition, and landing. Miller is NOT correct here. >Can anyone comment on this beast?! A little. I've been working on this for over two years. I'm not ready to publish everything yet. The specs that Miller published for the CONVAIR GUSTO are KINGFISH's specs. Convair's bids were NOT known as GUSTO. The codename GUSTO encompasses certain Lockheed U-2 follow-ons. The OXCART Story is not completely forthcoming in the Convair/GUSTO area, the specs are however essentially correct. In other words, KINGFISH was Mach 3.2, like the Lockheed bid, not Mach 6.25. Larry ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 23:44:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Here's how we'll work it If you will send me something small to fly (patches, keychains, tietacks so far are candidates) and a self-addressed stamped envelope, I'll get it flown and return it to you. Please put a post-it or something on your item so that I can be sure to send the right thing back to you. Ms Mary Shafer P.O. Box 4230 Lancaster, CA 93539-4230 People from outside the US can send IRCs, I suppose, or I'll just pay for return mail in exchange for a patch, keychain, tietack, etc. Do not send me anything intrinsically valuable; it would be a shame if it got lost and I don't want to end up getting more than I'm giving (in actual cash terms). Postage can't be more than a couple of dollars. By the way, I'm actually very fond of patches. We fly again next Friday, but I have Jury Duty and may not make it in to work all week. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #16 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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