From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #102 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 7 June 1994 Volume 05 : Number 102 In this issue: Report on failed mail Re: Doughnuts On A Rope!!!!!!!! SAS Update Re: NEON AZTEC Re: External Combustion Black Aircraft Re: NEON AZTEC Re: Auroa and mothership Re: Doughnuts On A Rope!!!!!!!! See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nmail-daemon@tamara.enet.dec.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 10:59:00 EDT Subject: Report on failed mail Errors were detected when processing your mail message which was entered at 6-JUN-1994 11:06 From: 3049::"skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu" To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Subj: Skunk Works Digest V5 #100 - ---------------- The following error message was returned whilst sending to address XANADU::MRGATE::ADD::XANADU::AM::CUMMINGS %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node MRGATE -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown This is a hard error. No more attempts to send to this address will be made. - ---------------- The text of your failed mail message follows: Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 4 June 1994 Volume 05 : Number 100 In this issue: Awacs / shootdown / intel Re: Doughnuts On A Rope!!!!!!!! What to do at China Lake .... Seattle Doughnuts Re: Doughnuts On A Rope!!!!!!!! See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wege@s1500.bc.PeachNet.EDU (Tony Wege) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 9:14:39 EDT Subject: Awacs / shootdown / intel Shalom, Respecting the thread about intel personnel on the helicopters downed in the Kurdistan no fly zone; is'nt there an old saying to the effect that those who know don't tell and those who tell don't know? Tony - ------------------------------ From: William Carroll Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 17:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Doughnuts On A Rope!!!!!!!! > > Time: 6:10pm PDT > Place: Skies over Seattle > Direction: South to North > Sighting: Doughnuts on a rope contrail, fresh > Story: deleted Since no one else has asked, I will: Is Seattle near the great circle route from Groom Lake to North Korea? - - -- William R. Carroll | Have an out of car experience. Walk and bike, feel the wcarroll@encore.com | wind, meet friends, see wildlife, and be part of nature. Cycling in South FL? CycleMobility can help. cycle@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us - ------------------------------ From: phil@sonosam.wisdom.bubble.org (Phil Verdieck ) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 10:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: What to do at China Lake .... > >planes in Bosnia/Herzkovenia (sp). That was intelligence gathering also. > > No, it wasn't. Vectoring aircraft is by no stretch of the imagination > intellegence gathering. Just what is it you *do* at China Lake? > Isn't it obvious, he's in Disinformation.... Phil V. - ------------------------------ From: Rick Pavek Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 16:14:07 -0700 Subject: Seattle Doughnuts DOH!! (That's what Homer Simpson says when confronted with a reality check.) I was in Bellevue then. And outside. I MISSED IT!!! AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Rick "Close, so close" Pavek Rick Pavek | "HA!!" kuryakin@halcyon.com | | Ruby | Galactic Gumshoe PS: Excellent Work, Cathy!! - ------------------------------ From: John Regus Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 19:42:17 -0500 (CST) Subject: Re: Doughnuts On A Rope!!!!!!!! Could the "Doughnuts on a rope" contrails be caused by the "aerospike" engines that have been written about? John F. Regus | (713) 960-0045 | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING WUI:REGUSHOU | - ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #100 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number). % ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ====== % Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com by us2rmc.bb.dec.com (5.65/rmc-22feb94) id AA00430; Sat, 4 Jun 94 03:56:34 -040 % Received: from gaia.UCS.ORST.EDU by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/27May94) id AA15947; Sat, 4 Jun 94 00:55:02 -070 % Received: by gaia.ucs.orst.edu id AA29745 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for skunk-works-digest-outgoing); Sat, 4 Jun 1994 00:01:06 -070 % From: skunk-works-digest-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu % Received: by gaia.ucs.orst.edu id AA29732 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for skunk-works-digest-send@mail.orst.edu); Sat, 4 Jun 1994 00:01:04 -070 % Date: Sat, 4 Jun 1994 00:01:04 -0700 % Message-Id: <199406040701.AA29732@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> % To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu % Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #100 % Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu % Sender: skunk-works-digest-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu % Precedence: bulk ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 10:14:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Doughnuts On A Rope!!!!!!!! John F. Regus writes: >Could the "Doughnuts on a rope" contrails be caused by the "aerospike" >engines that have been written about? There are several possibilities behind what causes the unsteady combustion properties of the pulser. The PDWE is one engine that might be the answer, especially for a drone. There are other unsteady processes associated with normally continuous combustion cycles. We'll know when they officially disclose the answer. Until then the best we can do is to be informed before we guess. That still doesn't make our guess correct however. Larry ------------------------------ From: zoz@cs.adelaide.edu.au (Night Mission) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 02:59:56 +0930 (CST) Subject: SAS Update Hey, is anyone here familiar with the e-mail update on DC-X and SSTO called 'Space Access Society Update' and run by a guy called something like Henry Vanderbilt? I used to get it every week or so, but I seem to have gotten desubscribed, so I was wondering if anyone remembered the request address so I could try and resubscribe myself. I seem to remember Russ mentioning it here before, am I mistaken? Thanks, - -- ______ _____________ ______________________ ______ /\####/\ / / / / /\####/\ / \##/ \ /_______ / / _ ______ / / \##/ \ /____\/____\ / / / / \ \ / / /____\/____\ \####/\####/ / /____\ \_/ / / /_______ \####/\####/ \##/ \##/ / / / / \##/ \##/ \/____\/ /_____________________/ /____________/ \/____\/ zoz@cs.adelaide.edu.au ------------------------------ From: "Jeff Nanis" Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 15:14:52 -0400 Subject: Re: NEON AZTEC Well, folks, count me in. I'm on his subscription list. I see nothing wrong with reading other people's speculations on programs I may know nothing about. Think of me as a guinea pig. If anyone I work for DOES care what I read and I get slammed for it (and I've gotten "cautionary" notices for posting without thinking in the past), I will be sure to let you know. If on the other hand, I continue to occasionally send innocuous, tecnical, non-programmatic e-mail and posts (mostly to sci.military), rest assured, my civil liberties (and yours) and my job security have not been infringed upon. Chill, people. I think there's a little too much self-generated paranoia floating around. Anyone who cares to discuss this with me off-line, send e-mail or snail mail or phone. Jeff Nanis 9 Hamlin Street Cambridge, MA 02141 (617) 497-9265 Jeff Nanis MIT Lincoln Laboratory ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 10:33:04 -0700 Subject: Re: External Combustion Black Aircraft > Has there been anything more reported about the aircraft >which was described in Aviation Week at the same time that they >described the Aurora aircraft. If you're talking about the diamond shaped aircraft in the 12/24/90 issue on pgs 41-44, No. Not a word. I would therefore venture to say that it is less of a good bet, with no further confirmation. But that is just my opinion. > This aircraft was described as >using its flat body as the bottom surface and its high speed >shockwave as the outer surface of a virtual rocket chamber into >which fuel was sprayed and ignited. The pressure of the >combustion on the aircraft and its shockwave drives the >aircraft forward. I seem to recall that in the article, the >aircraft was described as being black and stinking of kerosene >on the ground. Yes, thats the one talked about in the 12/24/90 issue. I might add that external burning for propulsion has been discredited as of late, even though, for example, the first positive thrust producing scramjet in 1958 was an external burner. It turns out that you can get mush more thrust by putting a shroud around the heat addition parts of the engine (where the fuel gets added) so that the combustion waves have additional hard surfaces to act against and produce thrust against. However, external burning does have legitimate application. For example in base drag reduction, where you wish to increase the pressure in the base or tail of a vehicle that has a high drag backend in certain flight regimes. The idea is also valid for stability and control. So if the reported article was correct, the above analysis of the report indicates that a completely accurate description of the vehicle was not given by the source to AW&ST. Contrast that against the multiple independent witness reports of the XB-70 like aircraft. There is more in support of the XB-70 like aircraft than the diamond shaped aircraft you mentioned. Just a thought. Larry ------------------------------ From: Bruce Henderson Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 12:59:19 -0700 Subject: Re: NEON AZTEC I think part of the problem is... Some folks on this list are connected with the intel / recc community. Either they are now or have been in the past. Some of them may even know about a thing or two. Secrecy agreements that you have with the government are pretty broad. I think people are just worried that if they play in the land of great mysteries that they might become disconnected with their 90's status symbol A JOB I for one think that what Paul is doing is a good idea. I may not be able to participate, but I am of the opinion that the light of public knowledge should shine is some of the dark corners of our federal system. And people like Paul are the ones to do it. Bruce ------------------------------ From: Jack-Lee Gibbons Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 13:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Auroa and mothership Clarence, I think the best way to show you the flaw in your plan, although ingenious, is to try and think like the government. You already have a multi-million dollar AWACS system up and running. It may make identification mistakes occasionally but so far, it has worked pretty well. Now, in the middle of budget cuts and military cut backs, you want to take another multimillion dollar plane and task it to the same mission in conjunction with the system already operating. Now, do you really think that Congress is going to approve the building of a whole fleet of extra B-2s just so they can assist the current AWACS system. Take it from someone who has seen the procurement process in action. It ain't going to happen! Jack >:-[ Here thar be monsters! "Hey ho! Let's go!" lumber@netcom.com ------------------------------ From: freeman@maspar.com (Jay R. Freeman) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 14:03:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Doughnuts On A Rope!!!!!!!! Did the original poster -- Cathy Doser -- notice anything reminiscent of a sonic boom? -- Jay Freeman ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #102 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).