From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #115 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 25 June 1994 Volume 05 : Number 115 In this issue: FTP site...still looking Re: FTP site...still looking Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #95 Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #95 Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #95 SR-71 and TEB [none] See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 5:46:58 EDT Subject: FTP site...still looking Can anyone tell me the FTP site address? We're finally on the internet. - -- Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ From: Kean Stump Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 09:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: FTP site...still looking ftp.orst.edu:pub/skunk-works. There's something slightly funk going on with our network connectivity to the Internet, so don't be suprised if your ftp sessions time out. Sometimes this bites pretty bad. Kean Kean Stump Network Services kean@ucs.orst.edu Oregon State University OSU doesn't pay me to have official opinions. (503)-737-4740 ------------------------------ From: megazone@world.std.com (MegaZone) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 16:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #95 Once upon a time Jack-Lee Gibbons shaped the electrons to say... >Why should he keep this information on a personal mail basis. If he did, >how would other people find out about these sources. As he has stated I support the efforts to find more information. I think it's healthy and it is our right to do so. (I also support hacking for the hell of it. Most of the security holes I've seen patched came about when a friendly hacker pointed them out. Defenses are improved if probed.) Making some announcements here or on the mil groups is reasonable. Posting the results here isn't. If it is that big now, set up a new mailing list. I understand the points others have made. Many of the readers here, and the best contributors, work for the government. Just RECEIVING the mail can cause problems because he insists on using the real classification headers on his mail. Even if they elect not to read it, they've received it. And the government is quite anal about such things when reviewing for security clearances. I would hate to see the best members of the list driven off because of worries over their job or security clearances. Besides it is way off charter for this list. It is a naice topic to foray into on tangents from time to time, but that is not what this list was created for. Something more on topic: How long would it take for the USAF to make their three Blackbirds mission capable if they decide to go ahead with it? Mary, you said that the NASA birds had problems with the tire rubber, was this ever overcome? New tires? And I think the AF transfered all the JP-7 to NASA. Would they just take some back, or would they need to have more made? - -- megazone@wpi.wpi.edu megazone@world.std.com megazone@hotblack.schunix.dmc.com "I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity. Use your mind, think!" Moderator: WPI anime FTP site, 130.215.24.1 /anime, the anime FanFic archive; rec.arts.anime.stories, questions to anime-dojinshi-request@wpi.wpi.edu GTW/HU d-- -p+ c++(++++) l u+ e+ m+(*)@ s++/+ !n h- f+ !g w+ t+@ r+@ y+(*) ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 17:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #95 We have managed to certify our nose tires now and the main tire is about half way through the test. We don't think there's going to be any problem. The current proposal on reactivating the Blackbirds seems to include using Dryden's SR-71B for training. In addition, they'd use our other A (the one that we haven't been flying) initially, until they get the 3 Palmdale birds in the air. We can have this A back flying fairly quickly (on the order of a couple of months, I think they said) but the Palmdale birds will take somewhat longer. Remember that they just bolt the appropriate nose on, so there's o problem with refitting the surveillance equipment. Of course, this is all just still talk--the Senate added the money but the House hasn't yet, so we'll have to see what comes out of the reconciliation. They do have to agree, after all. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 17:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #95 Oops, I forgot your question about the JP-7. They'd just have a little more made. It's pretty simple stuff to refine (that's why they need the TEB, of course). By the way, did you know that TEB burns when exposed to the air? It's really something to see. They were TEBing the airplane when Dave and I walked out to see the D-21s, so naturally we stopped to watch, doing our best to stay out from between the TEB cart and the USAF fire truck. On of the fittings wasn't quite tight and a little TEB escaped and burst into flame. They tightened the fitting and it went out before the firemen could leap into action, though. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... ------------------------------ From: ron@habu.stortek.com (Ron Schweikert) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 16:19:16 MDT Subject: SR-71 and TEB >Oops, I forgot your question about the JP-7. They'd just have a little >more made. It's pretty simple stuff to refine (that's why they need the >TEB, of course). > >By the way, did you know that TEB burns when exposed to the air? It's >really something to see. Yes, it's great. One of my favorite pictures from my Beale days is standing about twenty feet behind and about 5 feet to the side of the engine. After experience you knew when the flash was coming (it's proceeded about one second before it happens with a "mist"). I nailed it. The picture shows a beautiful fireball coming out of the left engine. When the pilot (or crew-chief) is starting the engine, the buicks (or air-starts) get the engine spinning to about 1200 rpm, then the throttle is moved up and over the detent. At that time, 50cc of TEB is injected into the #3 burner can and produces an impressive fireball out the back of the engine (especially at night). I was told that the TEB ignites at approx. 50,000 degrees. (?!). The engine then continues to accellerate to about 3,000 rpm before the start cart is disengaged. Starting the engine was probably one of the more fun things to do on the plane. Two buick 440 wildcat engines, unmuffled, going full tilt, plus the jet engine right above your head. Cool. >They were TEBing the airplane when Dave and I >walked out to see the D-21s, so naturally we stopped to watch, doing our >best to stay out from between the TEB cart and the USAF fire truck. On of >the fittings wasn't quite tight and a little TEB escaped and burst into >flame. They tightened the fitting and it went out before the firemen >could leap into action, though. > >Regards, >Mary The TEB also has an interesting smell, even though it's not exposed to air. Not sure why. One more thing Mary, why are you having to certify the tires. Did the original manufacturer stop making them (if I remember correctly, they were Goodrich Silver Crowns). 415 psi nitrogen in the mains, 250 in the nose. We got a max of ten landings out of the mains before the red cord showed. Some pilots only got two or three (sheesh!). On the trainer, 956, it might only get a flight or two because of multiple touch and goes. There never were touch and goes in the A models, only low approaches. If the Senate and House do approve, do you need an extra hand down there? :-) Cheers! Ron ------------------------------ From: "Frank Schiffel, Jr." Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 18:54:27 CDT Subject: [none] I'm not sure what the controversy is about people losing clearances on this board. If its classified, and you know it, it shouldn't be here. Even if your clearance isn't active, you should know what isn't allowed. If you never had one, you'll never know what this is all about. Most of the aerodynamics have pretty much been open source for at least 2 years. The only thing not talked about are specific operational characteristics (who flew what where and why). Once NASA got 3 acft (and probably enough spare parts to last until 2100) the AF figured it was an obsolescent artifact and pretty much gave away everything. What is interesting is that it seems that our national technical means aren't good enough without it. Looks like the political hacks up in DC who fly desks for a living really blew it when they retired the Blackbird. A cursory examination of satellite tracks shows that they are nice but not good enough. Ditto for everything else (if there are 6 SR-71s, what was the attrition rate on the U-2 and its derivative - besides those on display in Peking?). Lets face it, the Aurora is probably a pipe dream unless somebody proves it exists. How long was any other airborne, black, manned project successfully kept under wraps? Besides, really think about the aerodynamics and the engine technology, look at the supposed mission and see if it really, really makes sense. What is really unfortunate is that ATD didn't get the chance to upgrade the SR-71 airframe and engines into an SR-71C or D as we got better at building airplanes in the 70s and 80s. Considering we're looking at 50s and 60s technology, its really an outstanding example of really good aeronautical engineering that we're seriously thinking of using this aircraft again. But, hey, I'm studying for a PhD in political science. What do I know? Its not flight test, and it sure as hell ain't rocket science. (No, I never worked for Lockheed, I just respected those who did. Yes, I hate beancounters and yes, I have citations in open sources.) regards, frank ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #115 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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