From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #135 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Friday, 15 July 1994 Volume 05 : Number 135 In this issue: (Fwd) Blackhorse [1] - Headers etc. (repost) Blackbird- The Movie. Re: NIGHTHAWK! Re: Blackbird- The Movie. The NASA SR-71 made the news last night Moon Shot SR-71 Personal Experiences Article (fwd) Fwd: SR71 experiences.... Re: VINDICATOR Re: Fwd: SR71 experiences.... SR-71 experiences Re: SR-71 experiences See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Markus Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 07:52:53 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Blackhorse [1] - Headers etc. (repost) - ------------------- REPOST OF MESSAGES RE: BLACK HORSE FROM SCI.SPACE.TECH TO SKUNK_WORKS REPOSTER'S NOTES: While the following messages do not purport to describe current "black" aircraft, it seems to me that there may be a bit more here than meets the eye. I was particuularly taken by the reference to the cockpit of a U-2 and to the KC-135Q which is, I believe, uniquely tasked to the support of the SR-71. Similarities to aspects of the erstwhile "Aurora" are also of interest as are the missions suggested for the "Black Horse" which seem appropriate to an SR- 71 follow-on aircraft. The messages below suffered considerably during posting and reposting on the Usenet. I have reformatted the text to increase clarity but (with the exceptions of capitalized headers separating the several messages) have left the text intact. --Frank Markus-- Because my mailer would not send the entire file as a single unit, I have been forced to chop it up somewhat arbitrarily into three messages consisting of the headers, the report and an addendum. ========== HEADER BY MODERATOR OF SCI.SPACE.TECH ===================== From: clappm@smtpgw1.plk.af.mil Subject: Black Horse and Usenet Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 09:38:42 MST Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access [Mod Note: Mitch mailed this to me and we've discussed how to get his messages posted, which probably will be in the same manner. I am looking forwards to more contributions from him and other active professionals in the field -gwh] Hi. It looks like my original posting got onto the bulletin board okay, but unfortunately I had to hand-type it via Bix. Spending any time or uploading any significant data to sci.space.tech would get prohibitively expensive in short order. I'm working here to try to figure out how to get a newsreader program that will work alongside the ftp and telnet I already have on my PC here at Phillips Lab. SO far, no luck. If you have any suggestions I'd be eager to hear them. I gather from the tone of the postings in the thread I read that Black Horse has been discussed previously. Is any of that stuff archived? How can I get it? Last Wednesday Black Horse was briefed to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force. It looks very good for getting a program going. We are trying to target Oct 1997 for first flight. Mitchell Burnside Clapp clappm@plk.af.mil ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 8:26:52 EDT Subject: Blackbird- The Movie. I was watching the video of Blackbird- The Movie last night (for the umpteenth time) and I couln't help but wonder if Mary Shafer was in any of the footage. In one of her postings, she said how she would have to stand at attention and salute as it turned out of the hangar. The segment in mind is at either dusk or dawn, and one of the ground crew did just that with their flashlight. Any comments Mary? In the segment of "A letter to Kelly Johnson", he mentions filming this in 1987. - -- Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ From: John Regus Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 07:29:31 -0500 (CST) Subject: Re: NIGHTHAWK! I think the AF spin doctors would have done just about anything to get away from the "Wobblin' Goblin" handle. Regards, John F. Regus | (713) 960-0045 | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING WUI:REGUSHOU | On Wed, 13 Jul 1994, Dean Adams wrote: > > This just in... > > > F-117 becomes 'Nighthawk': > > HOLLOMAN AFB, N.M. (AFNS) -- The F-117 stealth aircraft > officially took the name "Nighthawk" June 24, according to Air > Combat Command. > The name was among the first group submitted when 12th Air > Force officials began the process of naming the aircraft Oct. 4, > 1990. Originally, the name was reserved by Sikorsky aircraft for > HH-60D helicopters. > > * > ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 9:14:19 EDT Subject: Re: Blackbird- The Movie. > Doug, > > The author of the narratives that Mary sent out was Ron. > > > Neil > > Oops, sorry for my lack of attention. - -- Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ From: ron@habu.stortek.com (Ron Schweikert) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 09:29:15 MDT Subject: The NASA SR-71 made the news last night Hi Mary. Your SR did make our news last night. Yesterday morning there'd been a loud sonic boom in the Denver/Boulder area and many people called it in. It was reported to be the SR. While watching the news last night they had file footage of the plane and then showed the planes flight path. According to them, the plane was supposed to fly up from Edwards (?) towards Denver and then loop on the far side of Denver (nothing out there) and then back, but "the plane got off course and turned early." They also said the SR "used to be a spy plane but is now used for research purposes and was performing a research maneuver." Sheesh. Anyway they got the stats right: 2100 mph. It must've been flying "low" (72K) (?). I've heard its booms before and they aren't *that* pronounced to scare people like these ones did. Maybe because it was morning and apparently quiet outside. I didn't hear it inside of course. Cheers! Ron ------------------------------ From: Bernie Rosen Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 09:08:44 PDT Subject: Moon Shot Last Monday night and last night TBS broadcast "Moon Shot," a four hour look at the early space program. The movie is from the newly published book of the same name (by Alan Shepherd and Deke Slayton) and is told by Deke through the voice of Barry Corbin (Northern Exposure). It has its own unique perspective and biases, but it's a good show. It will be repeated on TBS this Saturday at 5:05PM EASTERN time. Set your VCR's accordingly. Bernie - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - brosen@ames.arc.nasa.gov NASA Ames AIS Office 233-7 (415) 604-6558 Moffett Field, CA 94035 / Disclaimer: It would be inappropriate to assume views I express \ \ are those of anyone directly or indirectly employing my services / ------------------------------ From: mjm@wru.org (Michael Masterson) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 13:33:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: SR-71 Personal Experiences Article (fwd) > About 3 or 4 years ago, a gentleman named Ron Schweikert wrote a series > of seven articles documenting his experiences while working on the > Blackbird and posted them to this list. I've been trying to locate > archives of these articles, to no avail. I've made a cursory examination > of the archives and their dates, which show that the archives I saw did > not go back that far. > > If any of you kind souls kept copies of these articles, I would much > appreciate you e-mailing me a copy of all 7 articles to the address > indicated below. Thanks in advance how about re-posting 'em to the list instead? - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | This Space Intentionally Left Blank | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Michael Masterson mjm@wru.org ------------------------------ From: Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 14:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: SR71 experiences.... Ron, via Mary's archives, wrote: The flight over though was definately third or fourth class. We rode in the KC-135 tankers, sitting sideways on webbed seats (sort of like lawn chairs) packed elbow to elbow. No place to stretch. out initially. All our baggage, ground support equip- ment etc. etc. was tied down in the middle of the plane. No leg room. The tanker was not sound insulated, so you wore ear plugs and/or headgear the whole time. There was also only one small 4" window, plus the windows at the door to look out of. Oh well, nothing to see anyway. Was VERY noisy.......Lots of card games going on. I liked to go down into the air refueling pod........ I tried to envision an SR or some other plane scooting up underneath for refueling. ......... - --------------------------- Ah, the joys of flying in the Stratobladder! Fourth class? More like flying steerage. Noisy, cold and uncomfortable. I'd forgetten about the card games on the deck behind the cockpit. An E-3's pay didn't go very far to begin with, and those maintenance chiefs were always happy to remove you from your paycheck with a ``friendly'' game of eucher or night baseball that lasted from coast to coast. But the view from the boomers couch, especially if you were tanking BUFF's, was something else. I remember one time when the IP (Instructor Pilot), right before we tanked a bunch of F-4's, went through the whole deal of putting our chutes and helmets on, explaining the whole bail-out, alarm bell, red apple/ green apple process. Then, at the end of this spiel, he told us that no no one had ever successfully bailed out of an 135. It seems that you either smacked off of the tail or got sucked into an engine. The Strategic Air Command. ``Peace is Our Profession, War is Just a Hobby''. Thanks for the memories. Ken Ziolkowski ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 12:06:04 -0700 Subject: Re: VINDICATOR Posted 7/14/94 Peter Merlin wrote: >Has anyone heard anything about a Lockheed project called VINDICATOR. In >1984, I saw the program patch. It was round with a sky blue background, >orange border and lettering. It featured the Lockheed skunk holding a white >lightning bolt and wearing a leather flying cap and white scarf. The only >writing was the word: VINDICATOR. The person wearing the patch said he >couldn't talk about it. Any info out there? Interesting. This bring to mind the Lockheed program patch that showed Wyl E. Coyote (sp?) holding a lightning bolt. We all remember that one I'm sure. ... Nah, the security guys would never allow it. >Aerospace Archeology Field Research Team That's an interesting name for it. I think I've used that one myself before. George Allegrezza writes: >The Vindicator was the mainstay of SAC in "Fail-Safe". It was a three-seat four >engine intercontinental bomber that could reach 1500 mph at low level for short >periods... Kind of like a bad-to-the-bone F-111! Hmmm. ... Nah, can't be. Larry ------------------------------ From: Joe.Lurker@Corp.Sun.COM (Joe Lurker - STE) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 13:54:26 +0800 Subject: Re: Fwd: SR71 experiences.... {}From skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Thu Jul 14 13:41 PDT 1994 {}From: Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com {}To: skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu {}Subject: Fwd: SR71 experiences.... {} {} {} {}--------------------------- {} {} Ah, the joys of flying in the Stratobladder! Fourth class? More like {}flying steerage. Noisy, cold and uncomfortable. {} I once did a Hickam AFB to Grissom AFB, non-stop, 14 hour flight in a 135. Much preferred the upper deck of the C-5! The 135 was miserable until the gas-passer turned on his electric couch and let me sleep down there. The cold and the noise were difficult to say the least. {} The Strategic Air Command. ``Peace is Our Profession, War is Just {}a Hobby''. {} Why else did they give us such fun toys! {} Thanks for the memories. {} {}Ken Ziolkowski {} Joe Lurker {} {} {} ------------------------------ From: "S.K. Whiteman" Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 16:35:08 EST Subject: SR-71 experiences >Joe.Lurker@Corp.Sun.COM (Joe Lurker - STE) writes: >I once did a Hickam AFB to Grissom AFB, non-stop, 14 hour flight in a 135. >Much preferred the upper deck of the C-5! The 135 was miserable until the >gas-passer turned on his electric couch and let me sleep down there. The >cold and the noise were difficult to say the least. I don't know what KC-135s these folks are referring to but the ones I flew in were quite comfortable; airline seats, cots, hot coffee, and all of comforts of home. The EC-135s were even better, higher level officers. Now the truly uncomfortable A/C are B-52s or C-119s. Try a x-country in a C-124 sometime. > {} The Strategic Air Command. ``Peace is Our Profession, War is Just > {}a Hobby''. IMHO SAC sucked with PRIDE BTW Oshkosh 94 is close at hand, I seen the planed forum schedule and NASA isn't well represented. I hope NASA isn't giving up..... | / MI Ex AFSC 242X1 USAF '66-70 \ /___________________ Sam \_____/ | IBM Systems Programmer Chicago/ | * | O Indiana University - I | Ft. Wayne | H Purdue University at Fort Wayne L | 1794-1994 | Fort Wayne, Indiana USA ------------------------------ From: Joe.Lurker@Corp.Sun.COM (Joe Lurker - STE) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 16:24:34 +0800 Subject: Re: SR-71 experiences {}From skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Thu Jul 14 15:49 PDT 1994 {}From: "S.K. Whiteman" {}Subject: SR-71 experiences {}To: skunk-works@GAIA.UCS.ORST.EDU {} {} {}I don't know what KC-135s these folks are referring to but the ones I flew {}in were quite comfortable; airline seats, cots, hot coffee, and all of {}comforts of home. The EC-135s were even better, higher level officers. {}Now the truly uncomfortable A/C are B-52s or C-119s. Try a x-country in {}a C-124 sometime. {} Well, we were talking about 135's not something worse! =8^) Rode a C-119 Flying Boxcar back in the early '70's. Best I can say about it is *LOUD*LOUD*LOUD*!! But even worse, I was in an advanced Security Team going to a game site cross-country (over a hundred for a big chopper) in a CH-47A Chinook (oldest one in the inventory) with a portable fueling unit filling the cargo area. Geez, hadn't thought about a Shithook in a long time, fun bird! {} {} | / MI Ex AFSC 242X1 USAF '66-70 {} \ /___________________ Sam {} \_____/ | IBM Systems Programmer {}Chicago/ | * | O Indiana University - {} I | Ft. Wayne | H Purdue University at Fort Wayne {} L | 1794-1994 | Fort Wayne, Indiana USA {} Ex Active Duty USAF AFSC 50151 '76 - 81 Ex CA Army Guard MOS 67U '83 - 86 Joe Systems Engineer Sun Microsystems ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #135 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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