From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #149 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 24 August 1994 Volume 05 : Number 149 In this issue: $100 mil for the Blackbird ride offered to Groomstock '94 One Step Closer Re: One Step Closer One Step Closer secret SENIOR CITIZEN aircraft revealed!! Re: secret SENIOR CITIZEN aircraft revealed!! TR-3A Pics? Re: TR-3A Pics? Trip to Edwards AFB: What I did on my summer vacation ELEGANT LADY info Re: Two new recon. vehicles announced in Newsweek Re: Trip to Edwards AFB: What I did on my summer vacation Re: Trip to Edwards AFB: What I did on my summer vacation Thermoplane Thermoplane RE: Thermoplane RE: Thermoplane Castle AFB volunteer work Larry King See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 18:38:00 -0700 Subject: $100 mil for the Blackbird A short note in the new AW&ST says that the House and Senate have agreed on spending $100 million to restart the Blackbird program, so it looks like this is now one step closer to really happening! I wonder if anyone in Palmdale has started dusting things off yet? (i'd be more than happy to volunteer! :) ------------------------------ From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 08:38:39 PDT Subject: ride offered to Groomstock '94 Attention Southern California residents! I'm planning on going to the August 27-28 "Groomstock", oops, campout near Groom Lake. I was thinking about renting a minivan. With gas and rental costs, I think that the cost would be about $35 per person, assuming we have 5 people plus equipment in the van. Are there people out in Southern California who would be interested in riding the van? I will be leaving Friday night, August 26, sometime after 6 PM from Costa Mesa. I can pick people up along the route, but hopefully, people won't be too far away from the route, which is as follows: 55 Freeway to 91 Freeway 91 Freeway to Interstate 15 Interstate 15 to Nevada I was planning on staying Friday night at the Primadonna at Stateline, Nevada, getting up earlier Saturday morning, and heading out to Groom Lake. Saturday night I will sleeping up on Freedom Ridge near Groom Lake. I am a non-smoker, but if you want to smoke, we can pull off the highway so you can have a cigarette. Sorry if I haven't been on Internet much lately -- I've been been busy doing a number of behind-the-scenes things involving excessive military secrecy. I should probably bring along some of the military documents that I've obtained to the Groom Lake gathering. Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / trader@shell.portal.com PaulMcG@aol.com / 76056.201@compuserve.com phone: (714) 557-2400 ext. 294 ********************************************************************** Anonymous FTP access to files dealing with excessive military secrecy is available from Internet host ftp.shell.portal.com (IP address 156.151.3.4) in the /pub/trader directory. Read the 00readme files for descriptions of the files. Writings from Glenn Campbell, author of the "Area 51 Viewer's Guide" are available in /pub/trader/secrecy/psychospy. ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 02:07:35 -0700 Subject: One Step Closer Key elements of the $263.8 billion fiscal 1995 defense authorization bill passed by the House on Wednesday and sent to the Senate for final approval: - --$3.5 billion for defense conversion - --$3.6 billion for a new aircraft carrier. - --$2.7 billion for three DDG-51 Arleigh Burke guided-missile destroyers. - --$2.4 billion for six C-17 airlifters and advance procurement funding for eight additional C-17s in 1996 - --$1.1 billion for 24 Navy FA-18 C and D fighter and attack aircraft. - --$607 million for the Milstar II communications satellite system. - --$2.8 billion for ballistic missile defense - --$100 million to reactivate three SR-71 Blackbird spy planes. <<<<< - --Research and development funding for four weapons programs: $2.5 billion for the F-22 fighter $507 million for the new attack submarine $497 million for the Marine Corps V-22 tilt-rotor aircraft $525 million for the Army's Comanche helicopter. ------------------------------ From: megazone@world.std.com (MegaZone) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 06:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: One Step Closer Once upon a time Dean Adams shaped the electrons to say... >--$3.5 billion for defense conversion What exactly is 'defense conversion'? >--$2.4 billion for six C-17 airlifters and advance procurement > funding for eight additional C-17s in 1996 With the greatly reduced buy, is the AF looking into any programs to increase the lifespan/capability of what they already have? >--$100 million to reactivate three SR-71 Blackbird spy planes. <<<<< Hmm... Has any advance work started? The AF talk to NASA about the B model yet? >$497 million for the Marine Corps V-22 tilt-rotor aircraft Good. One of the projects that has DIRECT civilian uses. - -- megazone@wpi.wpi.edu megazone@world.std.com megazone@hotblack.gweep.net "I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity. Use your mind, think!" Moderator: anime fanfic archive, 130.215.24.1 /anime; rec.arts.anime.stories Geek Code v2.1: GTW/H d-- H+>H++ s++:++ !g p? au+ a23 w+@ v+@>v++ C++(++++) UU+>UL++++ P+ L>L++ 3 E N+++ K+++ W-- M-- V-- -po+ Y+>Y++ t+@ 5@ j@ R@ G>G+ tv@ b++(+++) D+>D++ B--- e++ u** h- f+ r++ n+(----) y+(*) ------------------------------ From: "Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund" Date: Fri, 19 Aug 94 12:31:57 +0200 Subject: One Step Closer >>>>> "Dean" == Dean Adams writes: Dean> Key elements of the $263.8 billion fiscal 1995 defense Dean> authorization bill passed by the House on Wednesday and sent to Dean> the Senate for final approval: Dean> --$3.6 billion for a new aircraft carrier. An entirely new carrier ? Dean> --Research and development funding for four weapons programs: Dean> $507 million for the new attack submarine Is this for the SS-21 Seawolf class or a cheaper replacement ? Dean> $497 million for the Marine Corps V-22 tilt-rotor aircraft I believed that the V-22 was out. If not how many will the Corp procure ? ------------------------------ From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Fri, 19 Aug 94 15:27:03 PDT Subject: secret SENIOR CITIZEN aircraft revealed!! There has been a lot of speculation about the secret U.S. Air Force aircraft code-named SENIOR CITIZEN. Some people have stated that this code-name refers to a hypersonic SR-71 follow-on ("Aurora") while others have stated that it refers to the small bat-like Stealth aircraft that Steve Douglass photographed in New Mexico (sometimes referred to as the "TR-3A"). Based on a Department of Defense document that I just received, I will reveal what the SENIOR CITIZEN aircraft really is. SENIOR CITIZEN is an advanced transport aircraft!! According to Department of Defense document DoD7045.7-H, "FYDP Program Structure", October 1993, SENIOR CITIZEN (Program Element 0401316F) is a tactical airlift aircraft. It might be a STOL (Short Take-off and Landing) aircraft, because there have been several advanced STOL aircraft funded under program category 04013xxx. Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / 76056.201@compuserve.com PaulMcG@aol.com / trader@shell.portal.com ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 19:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: secret SENIOR CITIZEN aircraft revealed!! On Fri, 19 Aug 1994 TRADER@cup.portal.com wrote: > There has been a lot of speculation about the secret U.S. Air Force aircraft > code-named SENIOR CITIZEN. Some people have stated that this code-name refers > SENIOR CITIZEN is an advanced transport aircraft!! > According to Department of Defense document DoD7045.7-H, "FYDP Program > Structure", October 1993, SENIOR CITIZEN (Program Element 0401316F) is a > tactical airlift aircraft. It might be a STOL (Short Take-off and Landing) The tactics of advanced transport are in vogue now, both as you mention in a no runway, in the field access to the battle line to replace land vehicles. At a certain level of technology, accompanied by sure and secure communication, the delocalization of warfare has great potential. So are we saying the state of the art has left conventional forced air technology? Something to ponder. BaDge BTW I am only guessing, amateur and skunk-like... :) ------------------------------ From: GArrington@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 Aug 94 09:46:25 EDT Subject: TR-3A Pics? I understand that Steve Douglass photographed what is believed to be the TR-3A. Have these photos been published? Can anyone post them uuencoded to this list? Regards, George Arrington ------------------------------ From: Illya Kuryakin Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 11:41:28 -0700 Subject: Re: TR-3A Pics? Welllll... he did. Problem is it is a poor shot done via videotape. It has been shown on tv and even the enhancements they've done don't show it well. Except for the fact that it doesn't have a tail, fro the angle it looks sorta like a EA-6B or an A-6E. But for a low battery (he'd been shooting LOTS of stuff that day, and this was at the end of the day) he'd have a much better picture. *> Shrug <* Maybe next time. ;} Rick Rick Pavek | "HA!!" kuryakin@halcyon.com | | Ruby | Galactic Gumshoe ------------------------------ From: oski@physics.ucla.edu (L. Ravi Narasimhan) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 94 18:14:15 PDT Subject: Trip to Edwards AFB: What I did on my summer vacation I took the tours of Edwards AFB and the NASA Dryden Research Facility on Friday, August 19th. Both tours were interesting and worth the 90 minute drive from Los Angeles. Edwards offers tours every Friday at 10am and lasts approximately 90 minutes. There is a 30 minute video presentation which explains the history of the base and shows a lot of footage of aircraft which have been tested there. It is a good, understated documentary with little hype. After the video, guests are put into a minivan for a brief tour of the business end of things. I had spotted a B-2 in flight with a chase plane on my way in to the base and saw it again from the van. It was doing some low-level maneuvering tests. The first stop is a small airpark on which the base museum will eventually be built. Highlights include a Gloster Meteor and a B-52. Cordons prevent close approach, however. Other highlights on the drive are the gigantic anechoic building and ops facility. No entry to these, but, more on that later. Once on the flightline, I saw several EC-135. These are 707s with bulging nose radomes. After passing a number of KC-135s, we got brief glimpses of some F-16 chase planes, T-38s, and a single T-37. The hardware on the flightline was not all that thrilling. I gathered that more was going on behind the closed hangar doors. A brief stop at the edge of the lakebed marks the farthest point, there is an SR-71 (#17955 with the Skunk logo) waiting to be put on display. After this, we head back, passing some NASA aircraft and a few more F-15s. The guide said one thing which seemed odd to me. He claimed (and asserted) that the F-22 was capable of Mach 3.5 *without* engaging afterburner. This was news to me. He mentioned this while relating the story of the YF22/YF23 flyoff and later crash of the 22 during tests. I aksed about more detailed tours for those interested. If any LA area Skunkers are interested, we should talk about going back en masse. They have done day-long tours which include visits to the anechoic building and mission control. I gather that extended time on the flight line may even be negotiable. If the group is huge, they aks that the group supply its own minivan or schoolbus to navigate the base. I would love to see more of this installation. They are having an airshow on 22 October. No flight demonstration teams, but, a number of their birds will be in the air. There are important restrictions that photography buffs should note. No pictures of anything moving on the ground or in the air. No pictures of hangars, either. Those with cameras were only allowed to shoot what I thought were fairly boring items like the chase F-16s. NASA Dryden is also located on the huge Edwards sprawl. They do two tours daily and I took the 1:15pm offering. I had 90 minutes to kill before the fun began. Lunch in the cafeteria and some time in the gift shop did it easily. I wasn't able to contact Mary Shafer, but, I bowed thrice in her general direction nonetheless. The gift shop has interesting displays of space suits and some audiovisual bits on famous aircraft tested by NASA. There also sell garish NASA t-shirts and a more tasteful collection of coffee mugs, tie tacs, and books. Once again, the tour begins with a 30 minute video in the posh Dryden conference room. While Edwards had a tiny nook for its visitors, NASA had spent extensively to accomodate its public relations needs. Giant screen tv included. To their credit, the video was not as full of hype as other NASA efforts. No sappy music or ponderous narration. Some facts, some footage, and a brief appearance by the Base Director who recited the catechism of customer focus. The rest of the tour is on foot. We walked outside, spent a couple of minutes in front of a NASA Blackbird and passed a closed hangar which I was told housed the other pair. We also got a good look at the NASA B-52, number eight off the line. This is the mothership we have all seen on countless film clips. A charming feature were the dozens of silhouettes on the side which represent the various missions this airframe has flown. We got to see one hangar which housed a few F/A-18s in NASA livery and a recently acquired F-15B which is slated to tow sensors for various and sundry purposes. Immediately outside was a small lot which had an F-15, the X-29, an F-104, and one of the YF-23 prototypes. I was heartened to learn that the YF-23 was going to be flown for research purposes. I think it is a much more elegant aircraft than the YF-22. A brief stop at the X-1E outside the main building and that was it. I found out that it is possible to visit on days of SR launches, but, that they can be delayed or scrubbed at the last minute making planning treacherous. Still, I'll give it a shot soon. On my way back home, I stopped off at the Blackbird Airpark in Palmdale. An A-12 and an SR on a concrete base with a J-58 engine and a couple of wind tunnel models. Simple, elegant, and absolutely gorgeous. There is also a small trailer which servers as a gift shop. Finally, I went to the Lockheed Plant 42 gift shop and got Kelly Johnson's autobiography. I alos got two hour long videos on Johnson and the SkunkWorks for $6 each! A day well spent. Pho^ne numbers: Edwards - (805)277-3510 Dryden - (805)258-3449 Reservations are required for both tours. ------------------------------ From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Sun, 21 Aug 94 13:32:03 PDT Subject: ELEGANT LADY info Some time back, someone posted the following on Skunk Works Digest: (sorry, I only saved the posting, not the address headers) >BASIC BLACK: The Air Force has a black tactical R&D program called "Project >Elegant Lady" which is so tightly held that neither its name or project >element number-PE 0208040F-appear in the service's budget requests for >fiscal year 1994. Other black programs, such as "Olympic," "Meridian" and >"Have Flag," all show up in the AF budget documents, with blanked-out >funding lines. "Have Flag's" PE number is close to that of "Elegant >Lady"-0208042F. Perhaps, the reason it isn't listed is because the Air Force is being paid to perform some function covered under a Department of Defense budget item, instead of using its own funds. Here's what Department of Defense document DoD7045.7-H, "FYDP Program Structure", October 1993, had to say: 0208040F Project ELEGANT LADY Air Force support to a classified DoD directed program. (Supporting JCS directives are classified SECRET, Special Access, and on file with the Assistant Director of Special Plans, Director of Plans (AF/XOXP), Room 4D111). Program description and details are available to appropriately cleared and authorized personnel on a need-to-know basis. By the way -- HAVE FLAG is a classified missile program going into active procurement. 0208xxxx programs are in a category known as "General Purpose Forces - Other" Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com + other IDs ********************************************************************** Anonymous FTP access to files dealing with excessive military secrecy is available from Internet host ftp.shell.portal.com (IP address 156.151.3.4) in the /pub/trader directory. Read the 00readme files for descriptions of the files. Writings from Glenn Campbell, author of the "Area 51 Viewer's Guide" are available in /pub/trader/secrecy/psychospy. ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 15:58:32 SET Subject: Re: Two new recon. vehicles announced in Newsweek >The cancelled project was known as Tier 3. The vehicle was a very large, >expensive and stealthy Lockheed UAV design. It has been described as >resembling the B-2 bomber in size, radar low observability and expense. >Cost estimates per UAV, reported by those familiar with the project, >were around $400 million. The project was abandoned as being too >expensive and time consuming. (Fri, 15 Jul 1994 23:11:36 -0700) Tier 3 ? *Sounds* very much like TR-3. Could this be the same beast as the TR-3 A ? Now, if it were an airship, it looks like the Aereon 340... Was the project really abandoned ? I am thinking of things like that which have been seen over Belgium... Prototypes ? J. Pharabod ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 13:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Trip to Edwards AFB: What I did on my summer vacation That T-37 was an A-37, Ravi. They use the A-37s for the Test Pilot School's spin syllabus, plus occasionally chasing slower aircraft. They spun one in on Wednesday (both guys got out). There isn't any thing more interesting in the hangars, either. The last time I looked it was mostly F-16s. You may think the T-shirts in the Dryden gift shop are garish, but I have to assure you the employees love them. At least 1/3 of the gift shop business is from on-site employees. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Sat, 20 Aug 1994, L. Ravi Narasimhan wrote: > I took the tours of Edwards AFB and the NASA Dryden Research Facility > on Friday, August 19th. Both tours were interesting and worth the 90 > minute drive from Los Angeles. > After passing a number of KC-135s, we got brief > glimpses of some F-16 chase planes, T-38s, and a single T-37. The > hardware on the flightline was not all that thrilling. I gathered > that more was going on behind the closed hangar doors. ------------------------------ From: Tim Ottinger Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 14:14:59 CDT Subject: Re: Trip to Edwards AFB: What I did on my summer vacation : :That T-37 was an A-37, Ravi. They use the A-37s for the Test Pilot :School's spin syllabus, plus occasionally chasing slower aircraft. They :spun one in on Wednesday (both guys got out). There isn't any thing more :interesting in the hangars, either. The last time I looked it was mostly :F-16s. The F-16s are going under major refurbishing, too. Are they testing the new mods (TF, Avionics, weapons systems, pods etc)? Actually, that could be interesting enough. Of course, that may not be a great Skunk topic. See you in rec.aviation.mil! - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- If I state an opinion or mess up a fact, you have to assume that's the way I am. You mustn't assume my company tells me to be that way. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: John Regus Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 07:37:45 -0500 (CST) Subject: Thermoplane Have any of you AW&ST readers found any sideways mention of the Thermoplane designed at the Moscow Aviation Institute? John F. Regus | (713) 960-0045 | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING WUI:REGUSHOU | ------------------------------ From: Jay.Waller@analog.com Date: Tuesday, 23 August 1994 12:04pm ET Subject: Thermoplane I don't get AW&ST,but there is an article on the Thermoplane in the latest issue of Air & Space Smithsonian. There's not much more info there than has already been posted here,but they do have a couple of pictures of it. It does look like a huge flying saucer. This is mentioned in an article on the "Technology From Russia '94" exhibit that was held in Washington this past May. There is also a first in a series of articles on "Reflections of the Cold War". This one is on US ferret flights into the USSR. ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 23-Aug-1994 1153 Date: Tue, 23 Aug 94 12:32:54 EDT Subject: RE: Thermoplane Look in the last 6-8 issues. Large color photo of the 1/5 scale proto, and a story on the plans for the full-scale version. Sorry I can't be more specific re: the date. George George Allegrezza | Digital Equipment Corporation | "What a maroon." Littleton MA USA | -- B. Bunny allegrezza@tnpubs.enet.dec.com | ------------------------------ From: John Regus Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 12:35:05 -0500 (CST) Subject: RE: Thermoplane The real question I had about the Thermoplane was how long was it before it was unveiled at the Russian expo? Did we get detail plans a long time ago and build this aircraft at Groom Lake and test it at night? If it could lift as much as 650 tons, think of its potential in a rear staging area ferrying equipment from ports and airports to combat units. Can y'all see the reason why, although this is not a "high-tech" vehicle, why it would be produced under the same stealth conditions as some of our other high-tech aircraft? John F. Regus | (713) 960-0045 | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING WUI:REGUSHOU | ------------------------------ From: "Philip R. Moyer" Date: Tue, 23 Aug 94 13:39:04 -0700 Subject: Castle AFB volunteer work - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have received the following information from Ed Rogers regarding the need for volunteers at the Castle AFB Museum. I have not yet called. If you're interested in volunteering, by all means, give them a ring. Cheers, Phil - - ------- Forwarded Message Anyone wishing to volunteer need only contact the Museum staff at (209) 726-4140 or the Castle Air Museum Foundation (209) 723-2178. The Air Force will be reverting control to the Foundation somewhere near April of 1995. - - ------- End of Forwarded Message - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLlpeSgpbiThMEiWxAQH4KwP+Px7xqBPK2bm3WWerhCtAoWY26CszqD55 BEhkiGTIJREP/l/8P1njHFDIOx55aNwVTJV0t18oByuilQ93zvJfUZm3jw+kFDKz VOClKliSg2wJo2uWHvq3CpZGAd24wIAJN2NqHAY7lCW00CHz17MRZjJI/j9YynIr HU31dRXqhrI= =11xp - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 5:00:15 EDT Subject: Larry King I received my copy of "Intercepts Newsletter" in the mail, yesterday. It tells of Larry King doing a live broadcast from Rachel, Nevada on October 1st. Wouldn't it be great if the High Ranking Officials at Groom Lake liked Larry King and decided to give him something to see while he's there? Like uncovering the "Flying Artichoke" live? Maybe it would be even better if the High Ranking Officials didn't like Larry King, and the decided to scare the living hell out of him with one of their "UFO's". - -- Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #149 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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