From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #153 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 14 September 1994 Volume 05 : Number 153 In this issue: Re: X-16 new Air Force hypersonic program Re: x16 and ec47 Desert Blackbirds Re: Desert Blackbirds Re: new Air Force hypersonic program Maybe the Air Force ... Re: new Air Force hypersonic program archives Re: Maybe the Air Force ... Re: archives Missing C-16 designation Air Force hypersonic plans + more Sonic Boom Re: Sonic Boom Re: Sonic Boom Re: Desert Blackbirds Re: Sonic Boom explosion? Re: explosion? !BOOM! Explanation? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: us@techpro.win.net (Tech-Pro, Inc.) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 23:05:41 Subject: Re: X-16 >Subject: X-16 >Sender: witch!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!skunk-works-owner >Precedence: bulk > >REPLY-TO: witch!halcyon.com!kuryakin >//////////////////////////////////// > >That was Bell, not Boeing. > >Drat... all my references are still packed from the move we made from >WA to TX... otherwist I'd rattle all the particulars off from Jay Miller's >X-Planes book. > >Twin engined bird, though. Pretty ugly and had a wider wing than the U-2. > >Would have been a great deal larger than the U-2 though. Heavier, too. > >Rick >kuryakin@halycon.com > Per Jay Miller's "X-Plane Book" ... The X-16 did, indeed, look a lot like the U2 at first glance. It had 2 wing-mounted P&W J57 Turbojets about 1/4 of the way down the wing. "The purpose of this design study is to determine the characteristics of an aircradt weapon system having an operational radius of 1500 n.m. and capable of conducting pre- and post-strike reconnaissance misssions during daylight, good visibility conditions." Speed - subsonic cruise speed at 70,000+ ft over target: 550 max Payload - 100-700 lbs Crew - 1 Wingspan - 114.85' Length - 60.85' on and on... It would contain 3 cameras - 1, 9"x9" with a 6" focal length & 1 or 2 9"x18" with a 36" focal length, No emergency ejection seat, THE PILOT MUST STAY WITH THE AIRCRAFT Automatic weapon system - "..to reduce the work load of the pilot" The project was designated MX-2147- code name "Bald Eagle" in July of 1953. The contract was awarded to "relatively small airframe manufacturer" Bell in May of 1954 - officially officially covered by the designation X-16. The first flight was to take place 18 months later and 28 total aircraft ordered. Also during May of 54, "Kelly" Johnson caught wind of the project and submitted his unsolicited bid for the project. After being turned down once (which tried to modify the F-104 fuselage to accomodate the J57's). During mid 54, Johnson proposed his model 282 aircraft concept. Shortly after a Nov 54 presentation, Eisenhower budgeted $34 million for construction and operation of 30 aircraft. All the while, Bell did not know of the presentations or the awarding of the final contract! The CIA soon got involved and limited the project to Lockheed, CIA & a couple pentagon insiders. The CIA funded the project for its own aircraft and the U2 was developed. The X-16 project was finally cancelled (with no aircraft ever being built) 2 months after the first U2 flight (which was much more successful anyway). David us@techpro.win.net ------------------------------ From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 23:20:59 PDT Subject: new Air Force hypersonic program While analyzing the fiscal year 1995 defense budget, I came across a new Air Force program that I don't yet have any details on. The Air Force will be getting $45 million under Program Element 0602269F for "hypersonic flight technology-exploratory development". I don't know yet if this program is classified or unclassified. Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com + others ------------------------------ From: mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 07:51:22 EDT Subject: Re: x16 and ec47 My sincere appreciation to all of you who responded to my request for info on the EC47 and the X16. The information has been excellent and I must believe the chart to be wrong. Mach 5 at 250,000 in 1954 was too good to be true. But, it sure would fit the Aurora expectations. I wonder when we will find out what Aurora really is. Thanks to everyone. Paul ------------------------------ From: "Paul Rak" Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 22:30:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Desert Blackbirds A quick note to watch for the October 1994 issue of _Flying_ (it's got a Corsair on the cover), in which Peter Garrison's Technicalities column is entitled "Desert Blackbirds." He talks about some of the history of the Blackbird, and a variety of the technical aspects (what a surprise, considering the column's name), describes viewing a takeoff and landing, and a simulator ride. He mentions that his host at NASA Dryden was the SR-71 Program's Chief Engineer, Mary Shafer... Enjoy! pjr ------------------------------ From: John Regus Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:54:19 -0500 (CST) Subject: Re: Desert Blackbirds Is Mary's picture in there? If not, then I will be going out that way in the near future... maybe Mary and I can have a group portrait...with her hands around my neck.... Regards, John F. Regus | (713) 960-0045 | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING WUI:REGUSHOU | On Sun, 11 Sep 1994, Paul Rak wrote: > > A quick note to watch for the October 1994 issue of _Flying_ (it's got > a Corsair on the cover), in which Peter Garrison's Technicalities > column is entitled "Desert Blackbirds." He talks about some of the > history of the Blackbird, and a variety of the technical aspects (what > a surprise, considering the column's name), describes viewing a > takeoff and landing, and a simulator ride. He mentions that his host > at NASA Dryden was the SR-71 Program's Chief Engineer, Mary Shafer... > > Enjoy! > pjr > ------------------------------ From: John Regus Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:58:27 -0500 (CST) Subject: Re: new Air Force hypersonic program If I am not mistaken this was a take money out of one pocket and put into another to claim cost reduction.... Remember the NASA hypersonic plane project? Well, the project got dumped into the lap of BMDO, the SDI successor and became a "black project." NASA was able to claim they had slashed their budget by $x dollars that had been spent on R&D (and testing) for the hypersonic transport. Regards, John F. Regus | (713) 960-0045 | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING WUI:REGUSHOU | On Sun, 11 Sep 1994 TRADER@cup.portal.com wrote: > While analyzing the fiscal year 1995 defense budget, I came across a new > Air Force program that I don't yet have any details on. The Air Force will > be getting $45 million under Program Element 0602269F for "hypersonic > flight technology-exploratory development". I don't know yet if this program > is classified or unclassified. > > Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com + others ------------------------------ From: markj@orion.convex.com (Mark Jones) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 13:16:32 -0500 Subject: Maybe the Air Force ... Maybe the Air Force should consider using Cessna 172s for their new stealth aircraft. It worked for getting Mathias Rust into Moscow and now some yahoo planted his next to the White House. FAA said they didn't see his plane flying over the White House. P.S. Big :-) for the humor impaired. ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 14:11:27 -0700 Subject: Re: new Air Force hypersonic program Paul McGinnis writes: >While analyzing the fiscal year 1995 defense budget, I came across a new >Air Force program that I don't yet have any details on. The Air Force will >be getting $45 million under Program Element 0602269F for "hypersonic >flight technology-exploratory development". I don't know yet if this program >is classified or unclassified. This sounds to me like it might be the HySTP (Hypersonic Systems Technology Program). Back in April, USAF wanted to ask for $60-$70 million for 1995, growing to $90 million per year in each of the years from 1996-1999. HySTP grew out of the NASP project. The original concept is for a scaled-down NASP-style vehicle that could be launched atop an ICBM from Vandenberg AFB, Calif. The original proposal envisioned four flights. The goal was to boost via rocket (ICBM), a scramjet test article to around 150,000 feet-and just under Mach 15, turn on the scram engine and see if you could get acceleration from the scramjet in the Mach 15 regime. The flight was to arc out over the Pacific, to about 400 miles off coast, with the test article simply coming down in the ocean. An aircraft orbiting near the test area would handle telemetry during the tests. The original schedule was: 1994-1995: Conceptual Design 3/95: Preliminary Design Review (PDR) 7/96: Critical Design Review (CDR) 3/97: Article ships to Vandenberg 7/97: Article First flight 7/98: Article Second Flight 3/99: Article Third Flight 3/2000: Article Fourth Flight (maybe not funded) This was the original schedule. It's probably changed. I hope that what all this means is that Paul has found proof that VERY HIGH MACH hypersonic airbreathing still lives!! Larry ------------------------------ From: Gregory Lee Crews Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 17:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: archives I have tried to connect to Gaia and login as anonymous and browse but it always says incorrect password or something like that. Am I doing something wrong or is the connection no longer valid? Greg ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 17:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Maybe the Air Force ... On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, Mark Jones wrote: > > Maybe the Air Force should consider using Cessna 172s for their new stealth > aircraft. It worked for getting Mathias Rust into Moscow and now some yahoo > planted his next to the White House. FAA said they didn't see his plane flying Mwahahaha! Good one, Mark. When I heard that story, I simply couldn't believe my co-worker wasn't pulling the old leg! I hear the SS has some type of AA or ground to air capability, but they didn't use it... On a slightly different note, SKUNK ALERT!! Run, don't walk to get the new PopSci... Besides the lead article, "Inside the Top Secret Skunk-Works", there is an interesting sidebar "An interview with Ben Rich". I don't have to tell you guys who Ben is, hehe... In the interview he says some interesting, and some strange things. Q: Does the US still have major secret defense technologies? (ha, like he is gonna be able to answer this, you think...) A: We have some new things. We are not stagnating. There are some new programs, and there are certain things - some of them 20 or 30 years old - that are still break-throughs... Other people don't have them yet. He went on to say he was unfamiliar with any technology causing Donuts-on-a-rope contrails, but mentioned that it must be using 'cryogenic fuel'. In addition there is much about the D-21 and some things about the SR-71. He mentions that the SR-71 had a radar cross-section about the size of a Piper Cub, and that part of the reason they didn't do flyovers, and were content with side looking imaging was that each time the SR turned it gave a big belly shot to the Russian radar. Well, off to finish reading it! BaDge ------------------------------ From: Kean Stump Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 15:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: archives Instead of telneting to gaia, ftp to ftp.orst.edu and give anonymous as the user id, then your email address as the password. ftp.orst.edu and gaia.ucs.orst.edu are the same machine, but we're going to move ftp services to a different dedicated computer in the near future, and call that machine ftp.orst.edu, amazingly enough 8) kean Kean Stump Network Services kean@ucs.orst.edu Oregon State University OSU doesn't pay me to have official opinions. (503)-737-4740 ------------------------------ From: Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 20:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Missing C-16 designation Since the "Stealth Fighter" did not use the missing F-19 designation, I suppose the "Senior Citizen" (stealthy, special operations, STOL aircraft ?) tactical airlift / transport aircraft is not using the missing C-16 designation either. Probably it's designated C-148A -- six numbers above the last in the old C-series. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software 313 West Court St. #305 schnars@umcc.ais.org Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 - --- --- ------------------------------ From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 00:37:59 PDT Subject: Air Force hypersonic plans + more There has been some speculation on this mailing list about the new (for fiscal year 1995) Air Force program I mentioned, "hypersonic flight technology", PE 0602269F. Taking a close look at my files reveals that it probably is a carry-over from PE 0603269F, "National Aerospace Plane Technology Program". Apparently, the Air Force managed to drop the dreaded NASP designation, and Congress got them to place the program under the correct Program Element (PE) category. (0602xxxx programs are in the "exploratory development" stage, whiile 0603xxxx programs are in the "advanced development/demonstration & validation" stage. I don't if they've switched to a vehicle carried by an ICBM, while trying to preserve existing research on areas such as the special heat-resistant materials they are developing. As far as I can tell, the new programs in the Air Force's budget for fiscal year 1995 are: * PE 0602269F, "hypersonic flight technology" * PE 0603430F, "advanced MILSATCOM" * PE 0603440F, BRILLIANT EYES (transferred from SDI program) And, from the 'what a difference a year makes' files: For fiscal year, 1994, the Air Force classified its budget summary for the TSSAM (Tri Services Standoff Attack Missile) stealthy cruise missile. The Air Force just sent me a fiscal year 1995 budget summary for the same program, now stamped UNCLASSIFIED. Unfortunately for the Air Force, the Army and Navy pulled out of the program, and the Congress cancelled it. I will provide some information, based on what the Air Force revealed. TSSAM had several Air Force variants, including one with "an imaging infrared terminal sensor for autonomous recognition and homing on fixed land targets" and another filled with cluster bombs. Northrop conducted 7 flight tests of unarmed TSSAMs in 1993 with 2 failures. In 1994, the Air Force improved the electronics and started modifying B-52 and F-16s to carry the new missile. Unfortunately, they didn't provide me with any illustrations of the TSSAM. Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 6:45:21 EDT Subject: Sonic Boom Last Saturday there was an enormous sonic boom over Northwest Ohio. We're about 120+- miles North of Dayton and Wright Patterson AFB. Anyone know of anything that flying in that neighborhood? - -- Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ From: Jason Duncan Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 15:41:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Sonic Boom Hmm.... I am from Fort Wayne Indiana myself and was there last saturday. What time did this occur? I did not hear it but would be GREATLY interesting in hearing anything about this...... _______________________________ | Jason T. Duncan | WHY ASK WHY?. . . . |_____________________________| ===||=== || // //===\\ | jduncan@indy.net | /||\ || // || || Indiana | jtduncan@indyunix.iupui.edu | <<||>> ||<< ||<===>|| Chi Rho | Purdue School of | \||/ || \\ || || Chapter | Computer Science | ===||=== || \\ \\===// |_____________________________| . . . It Starts With Phi! On Tue, 13 Sep 1994, Doug Tiffany wrote: > Last Saturday there was an enormous sonic boom over Northwest Ohio. > We're about 120+- miles North of Dayton and Wright Patterson AFB. > Anyone know of anything that flying in that neighborhood? > > > -- > Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) > Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division > Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 > ------------------------------ From: "Christian Jacobsen" Date: 14 Sep 1994 08:15:00 U Subject: Re: Sonic Boom Mail*Link(r) SMTP RE>Sonic Boom >Last Saturday there was an enormous sonic boom over Northwest Ohio. >We're about 120+- miles North of Dayton and Wright Patterson AFB. >Anyone know of anything that flying in that neighborhood? >Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) As Artie Johnson would say, "Vely intelestink...." On Friday (9/9) in the San Francisco bay area there was a huge aerial explosion that was heard for over 50 miles, and a flash was seen around a 10 mile radius. No one seems to know what happened, and no one seems to have actually seen the explosion itself. However, there was a person who called into a live radio talkshow and said that he was with a branch of the US military. He said that a missle test had gone awry and that they had to detonate the missle over civilian airspace. When the talkshow host said tried to get more information from him, he said that was all he could say, and hung up. A possible hoax? Anyway, it was all over the news all day on Friday. Then, there was absolutely no mention of it in the paper on Saturday, on TV, or on the radio. It was like it had never happened. Very weird. Anyone have more information than I have? I would appreciate it if anyone can fill in any of these blanks. Thanks, - - Christian ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 11:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Desert Blackbirds I don't remember him taking one, so you'll just have to make the trip! If anyone wants to see what I look like, there's a gif on spdcc.com. It's in pub/motss.pix/m/mary_shafer.gif and you can get it by anonymous ftp. No one who reads this mailing list will have any difficulty identifying the aircraft, I think. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, John Regus wrote: > Is Mary's picture in there? If not, then I will be going out that way in > the near future... maybe Mary and I can have a group portrait...with her > hands around my neck.... > Regards, > > John F. Regus | > (713) 960-0045 | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING > WUI:REGUSHOU | > > > On Sun, 11 Sep 1994, Paul Rak wrote: > > > > > A quick note to watch for the October 1994 issue of _Flying_ (it's got > > a Corsair on the cover), in which Peter Garrison's Technicalities > > column is entitled "Desert Blackbirds." He talks about some of the > > history of the Blackbird, and a variety of the technical aspects (what > > a surprise, considering the column's name), describes viewing a > > takeoff and landing, and a simulator ride. He mentions that his host > > at NASA Dryden was the SR-71 Program's Chief Engineer, Mary Shafer... > > > > Enjoy! > > pjr > > > > ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 11:26:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sonic Boom It wasn't us. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Tue, 13 Sep 1994, Doug Tiffany wrote: > Last Saturday there was an enormous sonic boom over Northwest Ohio. > We're about 120+- miles North of Dayton and Wright Patterson AFB. > Anyone know of anything that flying in that neighborhood? > > > -- > Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) > Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division > Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ From: rh@craycos.com (Robert Herndon) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 12:59:29 MDT Subject: explosion? I don't know if this is relevant to either event, but: I was in Creede, CO (south central Colorado, in the Rockies near the continental divide) Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Saturday night, I was riding in a truck with two others, one of whom noticed what he thought was a very bright meteorite. That prompted the other to say that he had seen a meteorite also, but during the day(!), and that it had zipped across the sky, bright enough to be seen, and then blown up in a puff. (He did NOT mention hearing anything, only seeing it.) This guy is an elderly glider pilot, and, in my estimation, extremely unlikely to have made this up. I don't remember him saying whether he saw this Friday or Saturday, nor did he mention a time. I will ask... /r ------------------------------ From: John Regus Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 15:39:32 -0500 (CST) Subject: Re: explosion? This was probably not a fascination by either of you, and I think there is a very straightforward explanation that you can get from an information source near you. What you describe sounds exactly like the reentry burnup of all that junk that is floating around in space from our early rocketry days to the present... and not only ours but everyone else who has sent anything up. I believe NORAD maintains a public information number that you can call to verify space junk reentry, etc. You don't hear about the smaller stuff that is likely to disappear in the puff of smoke like you described only the junk that is the size of a Winnebago gets 6 p.m. news. John F. Regus | (713) 960-0045 | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING WUI:REGUSHOU | On Wed, 14 Sep 1994, Robert Herndon wrote: > I don't know if this is relevant to either event, but: > > I was in Creede, CO (south central Colorado, in the Rockies near > the continental divide) Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Saturday night, > I was riding in a truck with two others, one of whom noticed what he > thought was a very bright meteorite. That prompted the other to say > that he had seen a meteorite also, but during the day(!), and that it > had zipped across the sky, bright enough to be seen, and then blown up > in a puff. (He did NOT mention hearing anything, only seeing it.) > > This guy is an elderly glider pilot, and, in my estimation, extremely > unlikely to have made this up. I don't remember him saying whether he > saw this Friday or Saturday, nor did he mention a time. I will ask... > > /r ------------------------------ From: "Christian Jacobsen" Date: 14 Sep 1994 15:13:50 U Subject: !BOOM! Explanation? Subject: Time:3:05 PM OFFICE MEMO !BOOM! Explanation? Date:9/14/94 I just received the following: ____________________________________ 2 AP 09-12-94 08:02 AET 60 LINES Mystery Object Streaks, Booms Across West Coast By RICHARD COLE= Associated Press Writer= SAN FRANCISCO (AP) A colorful fireball streaked across West Coast skies early Friday, rattling homes in some areas with low-pitched boom. The bright object, apparently a meteor, was sighted as far south as Bakersfield and north to Medford, Ore., and as far east as Reno, Nev. Penny Hernandez, who lives in the Sierra foothills east of Fresno, was watching a television news report of the USAir accident in Pittsburgh when she saw the bright light outside her window. ``My first thought was, `Oh my God] another plane crash,''' she said. Hernandez ran outside and watched the light disappear behind a hill near her home. Police and radio stations along the West Coast reported dozens of calls from listeners who saw or heard the object at 6:15 a.m. PDT. Witnesses in Tracy, east of San Francisco, described the object as blue and green with an orange and yellow tail. Many in the San Francisco Bay Area heard an accompanying boom and initially thought it was an earthquake, but Abel Vanegas at the University of California Seismographic Station said there were no temblors at the time. Traffic reporter Debbie Kennedy of San Francisco's KCBS-AM radio said she watched from her helicopter as the object descended on a southeast to northwest course over the region, then disappeared. In Reno, Associated Press correspondent Tom Gardner saw a flash through his window on the western horizon. ``I have never seen anything that bright it streaked straight down,'' he said. ``At first I thought it was a flare.'' There were no launches Friday at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, officials there said. An AT&T satellite Telstar 402 disappeared Thursday after a launch from the European space center base in the South American nation of French Guiana. But officials at the U.S. Space Center in Colorado said the were tracking that satellite, and said the West Coast object did not appear to be space debris. ``We are aware of the AT&T satellite, but the current information is that it was not related to any space launch,'' said Maj. Terri Jorgensen. ``The possibility does exist that it could be a meteor.'' Scientists at Lick Observatory near San Jose had closed up shop before the object soared overhead, but agreed it was likely an asteroid chunk that had roamed the universe for millions or billions of years before expiring on earth, spokesman Bill Trublood said. Office workers at Glosser Software Associates in San Rafael, north of San Francisco, found a hole in their office roof Friday when they arrived at work, and first thought a piece of the meteor had plunged into the building. But San Rafael police spokeswoman Margo Rohrbacher said investigators believe the cause was manmade, not space-made, fireworks. _____________________________ Seems to me that nobody actually says what the object was, and the people who should know aren't talking. Any other information from other sources? - - Christian ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #153 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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