From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #158 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Monday, 26 September 1994 Volume 05 : Number 158 In this issue: U-2 crash at osan ab, ko Re: U-2 crash at osan ab, ko re: Senior Citizen Re: Senior Citizen Re: Senior Citizen Re: re: Senior Citizen Us air force yearbook Nuke threat launching...(Reply) Re: Nuke threat launching...(Reply) Air International TR-3A Article and RAF Mildenhall See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john.stone@shivasys.com Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 09:38:28 Subject: U-2 crash at osan ab, ko To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Subject: U-2 crash at osan ab, korea? Has anyone heard anything about a U-2 landing accident at Osan AB, Korea during the past few weeks? I heard rumblings of one and was wondering what the a/c # was(if one actually occurred) and who the pilot was and if they were ok, also any details. Thanks, John Stone - --- ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ Be well, Do good work, and Keep in touch -Garrison Kellor ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 23:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: U-2 crash at osan ab, ko The A-10 driver I sat beside on my way back from Pax said that she went off the runway and was killed. Our newest test pilot came out of the Deuce community and I'll ask Monday. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Sat, 24 Sep 1994 john.stone@shivasys.com wrote: > > To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > Subject: U-2 crash at osan ab, korea? > > Has anyone heard anything about a U-2 landing accident at Osan AB, Korea > during the past few weeks? I heard rumblings of one and was wondering > what the a/c # was(if one actually occurred) and who the pilot was and if > they were ok, also any details. > > Thanks, > > John Stone > --- > ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ Be well, Do good work, and Keep in touch -Garrison Kellor ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 23:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: re: Senior Citizen HAVE was used as a designator for USAF Test Pilot School senior projects until about a year ago--I helped student teams on HAVE ATLAS, HAVE BLINDERS I, II, and III, HAVE DRAG, and HAVE POLES, among others. HAVE ATLAS used my handling qualities task ATLAS (Adaptable Target Lighting Array System), HAVE BLINDERS looked at limited visibility for NASP, HAVE DRAG looked at flame-out approach profiles for F-16s with stores, and HAVE POLES looked at control system design using the A-7 DIGITAC. I'm pretty sure that HAVE was a prefix indicating that the project belonged to the then Systems Command, now called the Materiel Command. This fits well with the projects mentioned in the included test, too. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Sat, 24 Sep 1994 TRADER@cup.portal.com wrote: > In an earlier Skunk Works message, Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote: > > >Here are some facts and some speculation about the Senior Citizen aircraft. > > > >Fact 1: Senior Citizen is a "tactical airlift aircraft". > > (According to DoD document DoD7045.7-H, "FYDP Program Structure", > > October 1993 -- program element PE0401316F - SENIOR CITIZEN) > > As the source of the FYDP information, the only other classified transport > aircraft I can specifically identify as such is THEME CASTLE, PE 0401129F. > This FYDP handbook was prepared for fiscal year 1994. There is a (H) in > the program name for THEME CASTLE, indicating that it is more than 5 fiscal > years old, i.e., a "historical program". There is also an indication that > THEME CASTLE was partially funded by the unidentified contractor. > > >Fact 2: All other SENIOR programs (I know about) have 3 things in common: > > a) they are all USAF programs > > b) most (or all?) of them are Lockheed built aircraft > > c) they are either intelligence gathering or stealth related programs > [impressive list of SENIOR programs removed to keep this message small] > > SENIOR CITIZEN probably is a Lockheed aircraft, but there are other > designators, such as HAVE that have been used for Lockheed aircraft. An > example was HAVE BLUE, the Stealth fighter demonstration/validation aircraft, > prior to the F-117 program. (HAVE means that the Advanced Research Projects > Agency is behind the program. HAVE programs are not necessarily aircraft -- > for example, ARPA is currently working on HAVE DUNGEON which is an electronics > package to detect mobile cruise missiles and their launches). > > There is an Air Force program with the HAVE designator that I think could > possibly be an aircraft: HAVE DJINN (PE 0603437F) . Again, this program > is considered to be "historical". > > >Speculation: Senior Citizen is the Lockheed C-16A (or EC/MC/RC) stealthy > > transport aircraft, used for direct overflight of hostile > > airspace to either: > > a) insert or replenish Special Operations Forces or Agents > > deep inside hostile teritory; > > b) gather electronic inteligence (ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT); > > c) or fly photo or electronic reconnaissance or surveillance > > missions (PHOTINT/ELINT); > > It's hard to say what SENIOR CITIZEN will transport. I obtained the Fiscal > Year 1995 Special Operations Command RDT&E budget summaries and went looking > for aircraft programs. There are a number of projects in PE 1160404BB, "Special > > Operations Tactical Systems Development" for aircraft, but they all involve > modifications to existing aircraft. (There are no clues that Special > Operations Command is directly funding a new clandestine aircraft.) They are > funding programs like IR jamming equipment and terrain following radar for > aircraft such as the MH-60, MH-53, & MH-47 helicopters and AC-130, HC-130, > and MC-130 airplanes. > > >Maybe it is even called "Vindicator". (Didn't someone try to find out, > >which Lockheed project might have used this (code) name?) > > Some time ago, if my memory is correct, someone mentioned a Lockheed aircraft > known as "Enforcer". I did some checking and found the following entry for > an Air Force demonstration aircraft: > > PE 0603234F Enforcer Aircraft (H) > Includes funds for the design and fabrication of the prototype Enforcer > aircraft. Initial tests will flight qualify the aircraft, evaluate handling > characteristics, and certify the aircraft for weapons carriage/release. > Tests will evaluate the capability of the aircraft to perform in a close > air support role, survive in a high threat environment, and kill armored > targets. > > One wonders what happened to this program and the prototype Enforcer... > Perhaps it is in storage in a hangar at Groom Lake. > > Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 00:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Senior Citizen Paul McGinnis wrote: >>Fact 2: All other SENIOR programs (I know about) have 3 things in common: >> a) they are all USAF programs >> b) most (or all?) of them are Lockheed built aircraft >> c) they are either intelligence gathering or stealth related programs >[impressive list of SENIOR programs removed to keep this message small] A little update: Senior Ice ==> B-2 (ATB) stealth bomber (which is Northrop) Therefore, Senior does not denote a Lockheed project. >SENIOR CITIZEN probably is a Lockheed aircraft, but there are other >designators, such as HAVE that have been used for Lockheed aircraft. An >example was HAVE BLUE, the Stealth fighter demonstration/validation aircraft, >prior to the F-117 program. (HAVE means that the Advanced Research Projects >Agency is behind the program. HAVE programs are not necessarily aircraft -- >for example, ARPA is currently working on HAVE DUNGEON which is an electronics >package to detect mobile cruise missiles and their launches). >There is an Air Force program with the HAVE designator that I think could >possibly be an aircraft: HAVE DJINN (PE 0603437F) . Again, this program >is considered to be "historical". And while we at it, here are the meanings of some other program specifiers, (mainly pure speculation), which I think are interesting: BIG (Reconnaissance projects / missions ?): - ------------------------------------------- Big Belly ==> B-52 (modification to carry increased conventional bomb loads) Big Crow ==> NKC-135A (reconnaissance version, serial 55-3132) Big Safari ==> BQM-34A (program to built the Ryan Firfly reconnaissance drone, 1962) Big Team ==> RC-135B, RC-135C (reconnaissance version) BLACK (Intelligence gathering projects ?): - ------------------------------------------ Black Crow ==> Equipment to detect the ignition systems of piston engines. Fitted to AC-130 gunships. Black Fly ==> Program including Fairchild Sailwing drone Black Hole ==> Exhaust stacks IR suppression system (OH-58A) Black Knight ==> Program to build (the first six Group A) RB-57D-1 ('53-3977' - '53-3982'), 1954 - 1956 Black Light ==> ARPA program Black Spot ==> Conversion of two C-119K to NC-123K (AC-123K) night interdiction / reconnaissance missions (serials 54-691 and 54-698) Black Velvet ==> U-2/TR-1 special radar absorbing, black paint BLUE (Special electronics missions ?): (In the UK, it would mean Nuclear Weapon Program): - ------------------------------------------------------- Blue Bird ==> RC-135C (ELINT) Blue Eagle ==> EC-135J (ABNCP) Blue Springs ==> AQM-34 (drone operations of 4028th RS/4080th SRW in Vietnam, Ryan 147 reconnaissance rpvs) COBRA (Telemetry Intelligence ?): - --------------------------------- Cobra Ball ==> RC-135S (TELINT) Cobra Eye ==> RC-135X (TELINT) COLD (Strategic reconnaissance missions ?): - ------------------------------------------- Cold Chuck ==> RB-57F mission Cold Dome ==> RB-57F mission Cold Speck ==> RB-57F mission COMBAT (Evaluation of new hardware, test missions ?): - ----------------------------------------------------- Combat Angel ==> AQM-34G/H/J operations (DC-130 launched RPVs) Combat Apple ==> RC-135M missions (SIGINT) Combat Beef ==> Build-up of a strategical reserve in the USA for TAC units in Vietnam (also Beef Broth) Combat Bronco ==> Six-month combat evaluation of the Rockwell OV-10A Bronco in Vietnam, beginning 08/1968 Combat Bullseye ==> F-111A tests Combat Dawn ==> AQM-34Q/R operations (Vietnam until 6/3/1975; gear also studied as a U-2 payload) Combat Hornet ==> AC-119G/K gunships Combat Lancer ==> F-111A combat trials (Vietnam, 3/1968) Combat Lightning ==> KC-135A, KC-135A Relay (missions in Vietnam) Combat Martin ==> F-105F (carrying QRC-128 VHF jammers to block communications between MiGs and GCI-centers) Combat Pink ==> RC-135U missions (SIGINT) Combat Shadow ==> HC-130N, HC-130P (tanker and rescue Hercules) Combat Sent ==> RC-135U missions (SIGINT) Combat Talon ==> C-130E-I, C-130H(CT), MC-130E-C 'Clamp', -S 'Swap', -Y 'Yank' (electronic special operations Hercules) Combat Talon II ==> MC-130H (special operations Hercules) Combat Tree ==> F-4D with added pylon for ECM-pod COMMANDO (Special operations ?): - -------------------------------- Commando Buzz ==> EC-121S (of 193rd SOS deployed to Thailand 12.1970) Commando Hunt ==> Attacks on North-Vietnamese supply lines in the south of Laos Commando Nail ==> F-105F (with R-14A radar, low-level night bombing missions in Vietnam) COMPASS (USAF drone/rpv and SIGINT/ECM programs ?): - --------------------------------------------------- Compass Arrow ==> AQM-91A (DC-130 launched ELINT RPVs to replace U-2s in 1969) Compass Bin ==> AQM-34G/H/L/M/K/Q/P/R (DC-130 launched RPVs) Compass Call ==> EC-130H (communcation jamming Hercules) Compass Cookie ==> Program to gather data on the SA-2 Guideline SAM missile by recconaissance drones. Compass Cope ==> YQM-94A and YQM-98A (long endurance, high flying, reconnaissance RPVs (1972/1976)) Compass Dawn ==> Ryan 147TE RPV (program to locate ground-based enemy radars Compass Dwell ==> XQM-93 and Martin Maritta Model 845A (long endurance, reconnaissance/SIGINT RPVs (1970/1972)) Compass Robin ==> AQM-34M(L) (DC-130 launched RPVs) CORONET (Electronic surveillance, and deployments ?): - ----------------------------------------------------- Coronet Cove ==> A-7D (11 year detachment to Howard AFB, Panama; until 2.90) Coronet Havoc ==> F-117A (deployed to Gilze-Rijen, Netherland) Coronet Sandpiper ==> F-15A (detatchment of 32nd TFS at Camp New Amsterdam (Soesterberg AB); 13.9.1978) Coronet Solo ==> EC-121S (electronic surveillance Constellation) Coronet Solo II ==> EC-130E (electronic surveillance Hercules in 2 configurations: 'Comfy Levy' and 'Rivet Rider') ....EYE (used for weapons developed by Naval Weapons Center, China Lake, CA) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rockeye (I) ==> Mk 12 cluster bomb, 750 lb dispenser, 96 anti- armor bomblets, (not produced) Rockeye II ==> Mk 20 cluster bomb, warhead 511lb (220kg) Mk 7 dispenser, 247 Mk 118 bomblets, (Ferranti International) Rockeye III ==> Mk 200 cluster bomb (???) Snakeye ==> Mk 15 retard fin for Mk 82 SE LDGP bombs HAVE (DARPA/ARPA programs): - --------------------------- Have Blue ==> XST (2 experimental stealth aircraft, Lockheed) Have Charity ==> U-2 (test flights, Edwards AFB) Have Dash (I) ==> Active-radar guided missle project ? Have Dash II ==> Loral stealthy AAM (flat graphite-composite fuselage, Mach 3+, IR / ARH guided, flight tested with AIM-7 rocket motor) Have Djinn ==> ? Have Dungeon ==> project to detect and track mobile cruise missiles and their launchers Have Echo (I) ==> ? Have Echo II ==> U-2 (test flights, Edwards AFB) Have Flag ==> Tactical missile (now in production) Have Lite ==> Lighter version of AGM-142A Popeye (Rafael/IAI) Have Nap ==> AGM-142A Popeye (Rafael/Martin Marietta guided bomb) Have Quick ==> ECCM system for E-3C (secure com. etc.) OLYMPIC (U-2 surveillance missions ?): - -------------------------------------- Olympic ==> USAF strategic program Olympic Fire ==> U-2 surveillance missions, Patrick AFB, FL Olympic Harvest ==> U-2 surveillance missions, RAF Akroiti, Cyprus Olympic Torch ==> U-2 surveillance missions, Osan AB, South Korea PACER (USAF modification and upgrade programs ?): - ------------------------------------------------- Pacer Century ==> F-15 testing F-100-PW engines (to max. operating time to 750 hr) Pacer Coin ==> C-130 (with surveillance equipment) Pacer Link ==> EC-135 (ABNCP version reduction program) Pacer Plank ==> B-52D Life extension program Pacer Power ==> EC-135 (Power Bus upgrade, etc.) Pacer Snow ==> C-5 avionics/ECM-systems update programm (including AN/ALE-40 and AN/AAR-47) Pacer Speckled Trout ==> NC-135B (avionics testbed) Pacer Strike ==> F-111F avionics update program Pacer Wave I ==> F-4C avionics update program (including APR-35) Pacer Wave II ==> F-4C avionics update program (including APR-35) PAVE ('Precision Avionics Vectoring Equipment', used for guided bombs and guidance systems, and for SOF and night vision equipment): - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pave Aegis ==> AC-130E gunships Pave Arm ==> Radar/emission homing missile against aircarft, cancelled Pave Arrow ==> Fixed IR-sensor pod on 2 F-4D Pave Claw ==> GPU-5/A 30mm gun pod with GAU-13/A gun Pave Cricket ==> ECM Mini-RPV (Pave Tiger with AN/ALQ-176 jammer) Pave Coin ==> Project to convert P-51D to F/TF-51D for MAP (non delivered) Pave Deuce ==> Conversion of F-102 to QF-102/PQM-102 Pave Eagle ==> QU-22 Bonanza used in SEA Pave Fire ==> LLLTV system for night bombing, 1 F-4D converted Pave Gat ==> RB-57G equipped with a three-barrel 20mm gun Pave Hawk ==> MH-60G, HH-60G (USAF SOF/rescue helicopter) Pave Knife ==> AN/AVQ-10 laser target designation pod for F-4D (EF-4D), F-4E Pave Light ==> AVQ-9 laser designator for F-4D Pave Low (I) ==> ? Pave Low II ==> (1 HH-53C to YHH-53H), 8 plus 2 HH-53G to HH-53H, MH-53H Pave Low (1975, 1979/1980), and the remaining 31 HH-53B/C to MH-53J Pave Low Enhanced (1985) Pave Low III ==> MH-60G Pave Hawk enhancement (FLIR, com, nav...) Pave Mover ==> Side-looking radar for missiles targeting Pave Nail ==> OV-10D (conversion of 15 OV-10A for night FAC), AC-130H (upgrading of IR, laser, com, nav, ECM) ??? Pave Nickel ==> follow-on to 'Pave Onyx', target location system for U-2Cs (and RB-57F ?) Pave Onyx ==> AN/ALQ-125 Terec (prototype target location system for U-2Cs, Litton) Pave Pat (I) ==> ? Pave Pat II ==> BLU-76 Fuel-Air Explosive subminution bomb Pave Penny ==> laser target identification set (for A-10s, A-7s, A-4s, F-16s, also known as TISL) Pave Pronto ==> AC-130A gunship Pave Spectre I ==> AC-130E gunships (11 modernized) Pave Spectre II ==> Conversion of 10 AC-130E to AC-130H (1 AC-130E was lost in combat) Pave Spectre III ==> AC-130U (???) Pave Spike ==> AVQ-23A/B laser designator pod (including AN/ASQ-152(V)-2, for F-4D (EF-4D), F-4E, Westinghouse) Pave Spot ==> AVQ-12 laser designator for O-2, OV-10D, AC-130H Pave Storm ==> GBU-2 LGB with KMU-421/B guidance unit Pave Strike ==> USAF precision air-ground strike improvement program Pave Sword ==> AVQ-11 precision attack sensor for 2 F-4D Pave Tack ==> AN/AVQ-26 FLIR and laser designator/tracker pod for F-111F, F-4D, F-4E Pave Tiger ==> YCQM-121A USAF Mini-RPV (1979/1984) Paveway (I) ==> laser guided bombs, fixed wings: (GBU-10, GBU-10A, GBU-12, GBU-12A, 1,000 lb LGB/Mk.83) (kit is from Texas Instruments) Paveway II ==> laser guided bombs, retractable wings: (GBU-10C, GBU-10D, GBU-10E, GBU-10F, GBU-12B, GBU-12C, GBU-12D, GBU-16A, GBU-16B, LGB CCG/CPU-123) Paveway III ==> laser guided penetration weapon: (GBU-24, GBU-27, GBU-28) PEACE (US DoD Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programs ?): - ------------------------------------------------------- Peace Diamond I ==> FMS to Turkey ? Peace Diamond II ==> FMS to Turkey ? Peace Diamond III ==> FMS to Turkey (40 F-4E in 1973, 32 F-4E and 8 RF-4E in 1977) Peace Diamond IV ==> FMS to Turkey (15 F-4E in 1981-84, 15 F-4E in 1986, 40 F-4E in 1987) Peace Eagle ==> FMS to Japan (2 F-15J and 12 F-15DJ) Peace Echo I ==> FMS to Israel (44 F-4E and 6 RF-4E in 1969) Peace Echo II ==> FMS to Israel (6 F-4E in 1971) Peace Echo III ==> FMS to Israel (18 F-4E in 1971) Peace Echo IV ==> FMS to Israel (52 F-4E in 1972/73) Peace Echo V ==> FMS to Israel (48 F-4E and 12 RF-4E in 1972/73) Peace Fox I ==> FMS to Israel (4 refurbished Category II test F-15A, delivered 12/10/1976) Peace Fox II ==> FMS to Israel (19 F-15A and 2 F-15B) Peace Fox III ==> FMS to Israel (18 F-15C and 8 F-15D) Peace Icarus ==> FMS to Greece (36 F-4E in 1974, 2 F-4E in 1976, 18 F-4E and 8 RF-4E in 1978/79) Peace Jack ==> Joint Israel/USAF project (RF-4X/RF-4ES with HICAM) Peace Patch ==> FMS to Israel (12 F-4Es in 1971) Peace Pearl ==> Avionics upgrade project for Chinese J-8B fighter, cancelled Peace Pharaoh ==> FMS to Egypt (35 F-4E in 1979) Peace Pheasant I ==> FMS to South Korea ? Peace Pheasant II ==> FMS to South Korea (37 F-4E in 1978/79) Peace Reef ==> FMS to Australia (24 F-4E in 1970) Peace Sentinel ==> FMS to Saudi Arabia (including five E-3 AWACS and eight KE-3 tankers) Peace Shield ==> FMS to Saudi Arabia (complete air-defense system including AN/FPS-117) Peace Spectator ==> FMS to South Korea (18 F-4D in 1968/69) Peace Station ==> FMS to Iran (Boeing 707-3J9C tanker) Peace Sun ==> FMS to Saudi Arabia (46 F-15C and 16 F-15D, beginning 8/11/1981) Peace Trout ==> German/USAF project (1 RF-4E with ELINT system) QUICK (US Army reconnaissance/SIGINT/ECM projects ?): - ----------------------------------------------------- Quick Fix I ==> EH-1H; SEMA (Special Electronic Mission Aircraft) (Tracor Aerospace) Quick Fix IIB ==> EH-60A, EH-60C; SEMA Quick Look I ==> JOV-1B, JOV-1C, JOV-1D ELINT tests and RV-1D in operational use Quick Look II ==> operational RV-1D and RV-1E ELINT/SIGINT systems RIVET (USAF Electronic intelligence gathering aircraft ?): - ---------------------------------------------------------- Rivet Amber ==> RC-135E (ELINT) Rivet Ball ==> RC-135S (TELINT, to Cobra Ball) Rivet Brass ==> RC-135D (ELINT) Rivet Card ==> RC-135M (SIGINT) Rivet Joint ==> RC-135V, RC-135W (SIGINT) Rivet Quick ==> RC-135M (SIGINT) Rivet Rider ==> EC-130E(RR) (psychological warfare / electronic surveillance Hercules) TEAL (Surveillance programs ?): - ------------------------------- Teal Cameo ==> DARPA project to define a high-altitude theatre unmanned vehicle as TR-1 replacement Teal Ruby ==> ADI project to develop a satellite which could detect and track aircraft from space by IR- signature measurement VOLANT (C-130 Hercules special missions ?): - ------------------------------------------- Volant Dew ==> LC-130H (resupply missions to the Distant Early Warning (DEW) radar sites in Greenland) Volant Forest ==> C-130E (assigned to the fire-fighting role) Volant Oak ==> C-130 at Howard AFB, Panama, supporting US Southern Command Volant Solo ==> EC-130E(VS) psychological warfare aircraft / electronic surveillance aircraft >Some time ago, if my memory is correct, someone mentioned a Lockheed aircraft >known as "Enforcer". I did some checking and found the following entry for >an Air Force demonstration aircraft: >PE 0603234F Enforcer Aircraft (H) >Includes funds for the design and fabrication of the prototype Enforcer >aircraft. Initial tests will flight qualify the aircraft, evaluate handling >characteristics, and certify the aircraft for weapons carriage/release. >Tests will evaluate the capability of the aircraft to perform in a close >air support role, survive in a high threat environment, and kill armored >targets. >One wonders what happened to this program and the prototype Enforcer... >Perhaps it is in storage in a hangar at Groom Lake. I can help you with that :) The Piper PA-48 Enforcer (based on the 1968/1971 Cavalier Turbo-Mustang III, a TF-51D conversion) was a modernized, beefed up Mustang with Lycoming T55-L-9 turbo-porps. Two prototypes were built (one flew with the civil registration N481PE), and they were evaluated in 1983/84 at Eglin AFB and Edwards AFB. One is stored in the anex of the Edwards AFB museum (to be restored, but doesn't look like it), the other belongs to the USAF Museum in Dayton (and might be stored there), but was stored at Davis-Monthan AFB (as AG001) some time ago. I don't know, if they ever had USAF serial numbers assigned or not. (BTW, Congress forced the AF to evaluate this design in 1981, but the AF was not so happy with 1940 vintage aircraft :) ) Sorry for the very long post, I got carried away... - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software 313 West Court St. #305 schnars@umcc.ais.org Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Ralph the Wonder Llama Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 23:39:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Senior Citizen Senior Citizen.... Hmmmmm..... A possible Lockheed project. Classified transport aircraft. "Senior" designation. Probably a modification of an existing aircraft. This may sound like a crazy guess, but could this be a sort of Aurora air launch platform? In a Popular Science article which speculated on Aurora a few years ago, the mission profile was given as being launched out of the back of a C-130, using tow cables of some sort, and recovering the craft via the same method. This would certainly hide launch and landing of Aurora. Comments? Flames? More speculation? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Guslick / ^ \ USnail: 711 Hwy. C NAR #53962 ---(.)==<-.->==(.)--- Grafton, WI 53024 michaelg@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu SR-71 Blackbird ph.: (414) 377-4428 IRC: HaveBlue TIP #112 "Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Quellish@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 02:33:50 EDT Subject: Re: re: Senior Citizen I can say for certain that the item SENIOR CITIZEN _is_ a Lockheed project, and it is _not_ a special operations aircraft. Most SOF airframes of any "black" nature are generated by Aviation Tech Services, a Central Intelligence Agency prpreitary company (SEASPRAY- this is where Task Force 160/160th SOAR and the Little Bird MH-6 came from). ------------------------------ From: john.stone@shivasys.com Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 14:57:20 Subject: Us air force yearbook To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Subject: Us air force yearbook I know this is slightly off-topic. The RAF Benevolent Fund puts out a RAF and US Air Force Yearbook every year. I've seen the RAF version for this year, but have not seen a US Air Force version yet. I checked with the bookstore and they say they've never carried it(USAF version). I heard there was an article on the U-2 in the latest issue and would be interested in reading it. If anyone has seen it or has a copy I'd be willing to pay for a copy of the article and postage. The Sept 1994 issue of Air Force Magazine has a nice article on the U-2R and some interesting photos. There is a photo of the ASARS II unit out of the nose housing of the U-2, I'd not seen a photo of it before. Thanks in advance for your help, John Stone john.stone@shivasys.com - --- ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ They're baaack..........The SRs are coming back! ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 4:46:07 EDT Subject: Nuke threat launching...(Reply) > > Putting the U.S. in front of barely stable, high tempered religions zealots > like Iran appears to be a fundamentally flawed view of the world. Then again > it depends under what conditions this launch would occur. Out of the blue, > or after provocation? In any case, the only topic more off charter than this > would be basketweaving. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Phil V. > I like the way a few people speak their minds and flame other people, and the say something like "I've spoke my mind, this is off charter, everyone else shut up!" If this is off charter (which I agree it is (who wouldn't)), then why did you say anything at all? - -- Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ From: tim@umcc.umich.edu (Tim Tyler) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 05:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Nuke threat launching...(Reply) > > I like the way a few people speak their minds and flame other people, > and the say something like "I've spoke my mind, this is off charter, > everyone else shut up!" I like the way some people just take the time to complain about some off-charter postings, while apparently condoning the majority of other examples. > If this is off charter (which I agree it is (who wouldn't)), then why > did you say anything at all? > > > -- > Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) > Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division > Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 - -- Tim Tyler Internet: tim@ais.org Packet: KA8VIR @WB8ZPN.#SEMI.MI.USA.NA P.O. Box 443 C$erve:72571,1005 GEnie: T.Tyler5 AOL: Hooligan MCI: 442-5735 Ypsilanti MI 48197 This product was not tested on any animals. ------------------------------ From: Adrian Thurlow Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 12:21:16 +0100 Subject: Air International TR-3A Article and RAF Mildenhall Hi skunkers!, The British magazine Air International is running a series of two articles over the September and October issues titled 'Wizard Wars & Air Power in the 21st Century'. Writen by a Dr. David Baker it intends to 'provide an insight into classified programmes aimed at increasing the survivability and effectiveness of future military aircraft, including the Northrop TR-3 currently in service, and details of vehicles incorporating exotic propulsion systems, capable of speeds exceeding Mach 15.' Part 1 ends by stating that Part 2 will include an illustration of the TR-3. Two questons. This article states that the TR-3 is in service, is this so - beyond all doubt? Secondly, the October issue is to include an illustration of the TR-3, have any photo's ever been published, or can we expect an artists impression? Air International is available in the USA from AIR International, PO Box 353, Whitestone, NY 11357, USA. On another, possibly associated topic, I live close to RAF Mildenhall home of the now disbanded Det.4 of the 9th SRW. There is a lot of building work going on close to the two barns used by the SR-71's. As the USAF's role in Europe has drastically reduced I am somewhat surprised by this. Also a long mound of earth has been put down obstructing the view from the road that runs alongside this area of the base. This may just be a convienient place to dispose of excess soil generated by the construction work but perhaps its been done for security reasons. Any comments? Regards Adrian Adrian Thurlow Adrian.Thurlow@bt-sys.bt.co.uk The views expressed above are purely my own. ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #158 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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