From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #163 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Monday, 7 November 1994 Volume 05 : Number 163 In this issue: Ben rich should know bet Re: Groom Lake Aurora aircraft on film? Re: Aurora aircraft on film? Re: Aurora aircraft on film? Fundamentally Unclear on the Conspet (humor...) Re: Aurora aircraft on film? SR-71 return to service -any news? Edwards Airshow Edwards Open House.. Ben Rich on 60 Minutes... Re: Ben Rich on 60 Minutes... Ensign George H. Gay Ensign George H. Gay Air show Re: Air show Report from Edwards? Re: Report from Edwards? F-20 Tigershark last Tigershark U2 & Gary Powers Re: U2 & Gary Powers Looking for Blackbird images Comment 60's spyplane in Colo (fwd) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john.stone@shivasys.com Date: Sun, 09 Oct 94 16:42:54 Subject: Ben rich should know bet To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Subject: Ben rich should know better !!! Greetings Skunkers, I've pulled myself away from the new Ben Rich "Skunk Works" book to say it's great, except for a few incorrect captions on a couple of photos: *On Page 3 of photos: U-2 fuselage being lowered, Caption reads: "Right:A U-2 being assembled at the Skunk Works in the late 50's.(Lockheed)" That's a U-2R fuselage if I ever saw one. Plus the photo is in Aerofax's Aerograph 3 as a U-2R. *On page 5 of photos: SRs grouping photo(3rd from top), Caption reads: "Squadron of Blackbirds operating out of Nellis Air force Base, near Las Vegas, in the mid 1970's.(Lockheed)" Sorry but that's the flight-line at Beale AFB, CA. SR barns just in the upper left corner(Check-out Michael O'leary and Eric Schulzinger's "SR-71 Inside Lockheed's Blackbird" page 82 same photo just more of it). *On page 6 of photos: SR being towed down road, Caption reads: "SR-71 Blackbird rolling down a highway en route to permanent display at the air museum at Beale Air Force base in central California.(Jay Miller)" I maybe wrong, but it seems to me that I've seen that photo captioned as towing the Blackbird to it's display at Eglin AFB, FL. The SR at Beale is right next to the flight line, just to the right of the tower. Besides that the book so far has been fabulous. Later, John Stone - --- ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ "Be quick, be quite, be on time" -Kelly Johnson ------------------------------ From: jkbacon@pacifier.com (Kirk Bacon) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:27:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Groom Lake > Now, everybody know about the existence of the Groom Lake base. The >goverment surely know that everybody else knows about it, they watch TV >too, and surely monitor these discusions. I would think that very little >is still going on at that base. If I were trying to keep a project secret, >I certanly wouldn't put it in a spot everybody knows about. There has to >be at least one more secret base out there. If they were able to keep this >one secret for any period of time, they can do it again. > I don't believe that alien ships are being tested there, that's crazy talk. >But, definatly secret black projects were tested there. But, in my >opinion, I wouldn't think much is still going on there. > > Unless the goverment is dumber than I thought... > > >------------------------------------- >Michael Hawthorne >hawthorn@cap.gwu.edu Maybe you should read this mailing list for a while before coming to such an amusing conclusion. There won't be a "Groom Lake AFB Open House" in any of our lifetimes. The existence of Groom Lake was never a secret from anyone with more than a casual interest in black projects. Publicly verifying its existence will not get you aboard one of Lockheed's six unmarked red & white 737's that depart daily from Las Vegas (a great flying job btw, if you can get it - no FAA or military checkrides), get you downstairs into a very large underground complex (more rampant speculation) , nor affect your ability to observe night flights from a hilltop 8 miles from the airfield. It is not necessary (or possible ) to build a "secret" airfield anyplace on this planet. If the government's motivation in publicly acknowledging this base was to take the heat off, maybe they are succeeding. (Sorry for the late reply) ------------------------------ From: wizard@sccsi.com (Stratacom Worldnet) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 94 18:17 CDT Subject: Aurora aircraft on film? Skonkz; I was net-surfing rec.military.aviation and came across a posting by someone out at Dryden who said that the local TV station had a 4 minute blurb on the "Aurora" aircraft and a 1 minute film of the plane in flight. Does anyone know anything about this. ******************************************************************** * John F. Regus | Stratacom Worldnet * * WUI:REGUSHOU | SYS/370/390 SYSTEM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING * ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Aurora aircraft on film? John, That thread was a joke, because too many people asked too many boring questions about "Aurora", over and over again. If Aurora would have been revealed, you can bet the skunk-works mailing list would not be as sleepy and quite as it is, lately. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software 313 West Court St. #305 schnars@umcc.ais.org Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 - --- --- ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 09:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Aurora aircraft on film? On Sat, 15 Oct 1994, Stratacom Worldnet wrote: > Skonkz; > > I was net-surfing rec.military.aviation and came across a posting by someone > out at Dryden who said that the local TV station had a 4 minute blurb on the > "Aurora" aircraft and a 1 minute film of the plane in flight. Does anyone Yikes that was a joke. See Al's comments later in the threat. OTOH PS had a picture of the Navy's version of the A 12 a delta wing craft that was canceled and so now may be "revealed" . Check it out. BaDge ------------------------------ From: I am the NRA Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 08:32:43 EDT Subject: Fundamentally Unclear on the Conspet (humor...) Sigh. Maybe its just ME. Bookstore (I) had Sled Driver in ANTHROPOLOGY! Well. Sort of. I guess. Bookstore (II) had the Ben Rich/(i ferget) Skunkworks in BUSINESS. well., it is about a division of Lockheed. And Lockheed IS a business. And they wonder why they don't sell.... grins dwp ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:24:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Aurora aircraft on film? >If Aurora would have been revealed, you can bet the skunk-works mailing >list would not be as sleepy and quite as it is, lately. Well, there IS a lot to talk about too! I can think of two areas: 1. Ben's new book 2. Stuff in recent AW&STs If you all need help I can suggest a few items from the above list. Larry ------------------------------ From: Adrian Thurlow Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 11:55:38 +0100 Subject: SR-71 return to service -any news? Hi skunkers, This list seems to have gone very quiet so I thought I would try and liven things up a bit. Since the hiatus caused by the allocation of funds to recall three SR-71's to active duty things have gone very quiet. Why, surely if this was actually going to happen there would be some activity to indicate such. Crew and maintenance people would need training/recall and the simulator at NASA would be being used. No one has reported anything of this nature and as the funds were for FY95 I suggest that we are not going to see the aircraft in the air. My reasoning is that a considerable period of time would be needed to be ready for operations, say four to six months, so time has/is rapidly running out. Any thoughts/comments/news on this? Of course the rumors of the existance of the TR-3 are stronger now then ever! Reagrds Adrian Thurlow Technology Integration BT Labs Martlesham Heath Ipswich Suffolk U.K. Tel. +44 1473 644880 Fax. +44 1473 646534 e-mail. Adrian.Thurlow@bt-sys.bt.co.uk The views expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer. ------------------------------ From: shinman@thomas.com (Sterling Hinman) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 19:29:25 PDT Subject: Edwards Airshow Greetings all! Is anyone going to the Edwards AFB airshow this weekend? For those of you NASA types (Mary...) what do they have planned for the day, how does the show look? I know that there will be no Thunderchickens (...uh birds, sorry...), but what else is scheduled to fly? Are there any other skunkers heading that way? If so maybe we could arrange a meeting at one of our "theme" planes (SR-71, U-2, etc). I believe it is on Saturday only, but I don't have gate open times yet. Any information on the show would be greatly appreciated! Sorry to all those not able to come... we will miss ya! - -Sterling H. ------------------------------ From: "John W. Herndon" Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Edwards Open House.. Expect on base aircraft to be flying only. I was told my Gary of Public Relations that there will be the usual collection of jets on display along with F-117 and B-2 flyby. Gates open at 8:00am, 7:30 if the traffic is backed up to the highway. Hope this helps.. John Herndon (jwh@kaiwan.com) : ONE STOP TECH SHOP BBS * (310) 421-6766 * 24 Hours * USR 28.8 DS * 8/N/1 : : Ham Radio * Scanners * Shortwave Listening * CAD/CAM/CAE * Ray Tracing : : Groom Lake / Area 51 * Military Aircraft * Black Budgets * Satellites : : 500 Megs + 3 CD-ROMs - Fidonet 1:102/471 - Share your interests today! : ------------------------------ From: lhawkins@annie.wellesley.edu Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 09:30:38 -0400 Subject: Ben Rich on 60 Minutes... Just saw a blurb last night that Ben Rich will be on 60 Minutes this Sunday. Thought the group might be interested! Cheers, - --Lee ________________________________________________________________________________ R. Lee Hawkins lhawkins@annie.wellesley.edu Department of Astronomy lhawkins@lucy.wellesley.edu Whitin Observatory Wellesley College Ph. 617-283-2708 Wellesley, MA 02181 FAX 617-283-3667 ________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Ben Rich on 60 Minutes... On Fri, 21 Oct 1994 lhawkins@annie.wellesley.edu wrote: > Just saw a blurb last night that Ben Rich will be on 60 Minutes this > Sunday. Thought the group might be interested! Lee, Great, thanks. I just picked up _Skunk Works_ last night at Barnes and Noble, the last copy (or only ?) they had. Several glossy pix inside, although nothing that I haven't seen elsewhere 'cept the 'first NightHawk' being assembled. I know what I'll be doing this weekend BaDge ------------------------------ From: Illya Kuryakin Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 20:28:33 -0700 Subject: Ensign George H. Gay I'm reposting an article that appeared in rec.models.scale. ae241bs@prism.gatech.edu ** BOB SIGMAN *** at Georgia Institute of Technology It is with regret that I report the passing of a friend of IPMS/Atlanta and a great American hero: Ensign George H. Gay, USN. On June 4, 1942, Commander John C. Waldron led the 15 ancient TBD-1 Devastators of Torpedo 8 off the USS Hornet to attack the Japanese fleet approaching Midway Island. Torpedo 8 was the first carrier based squadron to attack the fleet and they were annihilated by the defending Zeros. Ensign Gay survived the run in, dropped his torpedo but was shot down after clearing the Japanese carriers. After crashlanding he floated under the bombardiers cushion while the Japanese fleet steamed by looking for him. It was while floating in his "ringside" seat that the SBDs began their dives. Ensign Gay watched as 3 carriers were set ablaze within about 5 minutes. The "Sole Survivor" of Torpedo 8 was picked up later and returned to Pearl Harbor where he first told his story to Admiral Nimitz. George retold his story in his book: "Sole Survivor", at the 1978 IPMS National Convention and at aviation seminars. A resident of Marietta, Ga., he was signing copies of his book and telling his stories at the 1993 IPMS National Convention in Atlanta. Ensign Gay's body will be cremated and his ashes will be taken to Midway Island where he will be reunited with the gallant men of Torpedo 8. Bob Sigman We probably won't see your name on the national news, George. Gomez Adams you are not. No, George, you're a hero. Too many forget heroes in these times. Not us, Ensign George H. Gay, USN. _We_ will remember. "Attention on Deck!" "Hand Salute!" Rick Pavek kuryakin@halcyon.com ------------------------------ From: kallista@netcom.com (Chris Barrus) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 07:20:08 -0700 Subject: Ensign George H. Gay >The Man From U.N.C.L.E. says: > It is with regret that I report the passing of a friend of >IPMS/Atlanta and a great American hero: Ensign George H. Gay, USN. Wow! I just remembered the scenes in the movie _Midway_ in which the film jumped back and forth from US torpedo groups, to the carriers, and to the Japanese, each time with a caption explaning who it was ("Admiral Nimitz", etc.) At least a half-dozen times in the movie, they flashed to a head floating in the water with "Ensign George Gay - Torpedo 8" on the screen. I remembered that enough to pick up his book which is recommended. Tragic loss. Chris ========================================================================== Chris Barrus - kallista@netcom.com | "Route 66 is a giant chute down which | everything loose in this country is '72 Riviera - Peace through | sliding into Southern California." superior automotive power! | - Frank Lloyd Wright ========================================================================== ------------------------------ From: Wade Lengele Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 08:41:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: Air show Greetings, For those of you that interested, there is an air show at Glendale Municipal Airport on Nov. 5-6. The thunderbirds are going to be there along with your standard F-15 and A-10 demos. I paid $5 for my ticket in advance. wade@ramp.com ------------------------------ From: Wade Lengele Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 21:45:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Air show Glendale, Arizona that is...sorry. wade@ramp.com On Tue, 25 Oct 1994, Wade Lengele wrote: > Greetings, > > For those of you that interested, there is an air show at Glendale > Municipal Airport on Nov. 5-6. The thunderbirds are going to be there > along with your standard F-15 and A-10 demos. I paid $5 for my ticket in > advance. > > wade@ramp.com > > > ------------------------------ From: "Christian Jacobsen" Date: 26 Oct 1994 08:17:18 U Subject: Report from Edwards? Subject: Time:8:12 AM OFFICE MEMO Report from Edwards? Date:10/26/94 Greetings, Didn't someone on this list go to the airshow/open house at Edwards AFB last weekend? Could you write up a quick "trip report" and let us know how it was, what flew, etc? Thanks, - - Xtian **************** Christian Jacobsen jacobsen@george.arc.nasa.gov - --My employer ignores my opinions...-- **************** ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Report from Edwards? I know that people from the Internet were here because they stopped by the SR-71 and asked my co-workers to say "hi" to me. I can tell you some of what flew because I watched the rehearsals--a two-man of F-117s, the B-2, aerobatic displays by the F-15 and F-16, a parachute drop by the C-17, a simulated bombing pass by the B-52, a formation of four--the F-15, F-16, T-38, and A-37. There was also a lovely glider aerobatic routine which I find entrancing. NASA sent an SR-71A and a T/F-18 for static display. The Air Force had a nice weapons-loading demonstration on the F-15 and F-16; they hang all kinds of ordnance on the aircraft. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On 26 Oct 1994, Christian Jacobsen wrote: > Subject: Time:8:12 AM > OFFICE MEMO Report from Edwards? Date:10/26/94 > > Greetings, > > Didn't someone on this list go to the airshow/open house at Edwards AFB last > weekend? Could you write up a quick "trip report" and let us know how it was, > what flew, etc? > > Thanks, > - Xtian > > **************** > Christian Jacobsen > jacobsen@george.arc.nasa.gov > --My employer ignores my opinions...-- > **************** > ------------------------------ From: "Philip R. Moyer" Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 09:25:51 -0700 Subject: F-20 Tigershark I was just talking to a co-worker who was at Northrop's electronics division doing work on the B-2. He claimed one of the three F-20 prototypes survived, but he doesn't know where it is. Does anyone have information about the final resting place of the last Tigershark? Cheers, Phil ------------------------------ From: "Frank Schiffel, Jr." Date: Sat, 29 Oct 94 10:40:42 CDT Subject: last Tigershark Hmm. I know Northrup had wanted to donate the last Tigershark to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum but was turned down. I think Northrup has it somewhere. I'm not sure if it was the Tigereye variant or not. Shame, it was a good airframe and concept. It just couldn't sell in the market as the AF didn't buy it. ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 7:34:51 EST Subject: U2 & Gary Powers There is a very interesting file at ftp.spies.com about the U2 incident (u2.txt). It's a rather lengthy file (25261) so I didn't want to post it here. If anyone does not have ftp access, I could mail it to you direct. There is also a FOIA request kit (foia.req (37066)). - -- Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ From: "Christopher A. Poterala" Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:40:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: U2 & Gary Powers On Mon, 31 Oct 1994, Doug Tiffany wrote: > There is a very interesting file at ftp.spies.com about the U2 > incident (u2.txt). It's a rather lengthy file (25261) so I didn't > want to post it here. If anyone does not have ftp access, I could > mail it to you direct. Just a follow-up that the path to the file on ftp.spies.com is /Gov/US-History/u2.txt Christopher A. Poterala - Information Specialist ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ poterala@ciesin.org | "People may doubt what you say, but potsie@alumni.sils.umich.edu | they will always believe what you do" ------------------------------ From: Loran.Ball@Eng.Sun.COM (Loran Ball) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 08:35:40 +0800 Subject: Looking for Blackbird images I am looking for any digital images of the Blackbird family of planes. I am not a member of this mailing list so please respond to me directly (loran@sun.com). Thanks for your help, - -loran (loran@sun.com) ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 11:10:03 EST Subject: Comment It's been pretty quiet lately, so I thought I'd make a comment. I was watching "Blackbird - The Movie" the other day and it got to the scene where it showed the SR-71 and U2 flying side by side. That's has to be my favorite scene. That would make a great .gif or poster. OK, I'll shut up now. :) - -- Douglas J. Tiffany (dougt@u011.oh.vp.com) Varco-Pruden Buildings Northern Division Van Wert OH. (419) 238-9533 ------------------------------ From: Kean Stump Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 13:09:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: 60's spyplane in Colo (fwd) oopsie. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 12:24:05 MST From: Ron Schweikert To: skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Subject: 60's spyplane in Colo Hello gang, yes it's been slow, I was wondering if I'd been cut-off or I hosed something with my recent rebuild :-), then I got a message. Whew. Anyway, at Jefferson County Airport in Broomfield, CO we just got a new arrival. It's a "WB-57F spy plane" as reported by the local paper. It's strange looking, looking a bit like a U2, but with two large engines, one per wing, each about 3 ft. out from the fuselage on the wings. It was reportedly used in the mid 60's and late 70's by the Air Force. It is reported to fly at 68K ft. It has tricycle landing gear much like a conventional aircraft. It is going to be used by NCAR (the National Center for Atmospheric Research) for studying global warming and cirrus clouds. According to the article only two such planes exist in the U.S. It is a gift from NASA. Anyone have more info on this thing? Thanks! Ron ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #163 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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