From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #186 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Friday, 20 January 1995 Volume 05 : Number 186 In this issue: Administrivia [secondary mailing lists] Triangular Craft Triangular Craft Triangular Craft Triangular Craft Triangular Craft Triangular Craft - Postscript Re: Aurora, maybe so? TR-3A See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kean Stump Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:54:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Administrivia [secondary mailing lists] I'm getting a fair number of bounced mail messages back for addresses that aren't in the master mailing list here. Would those of you running local exploders for skunk-works check for the addresses MRGATE%WOODS.dnet@woods.uml.edu Scott E Mcwilliams Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 17:14 BST Subject: Triangular Craft Most subscribers will be aware of consistent reports in recent years, pertaining to unusual triangular shaped craft. I have collated a number of such reports and would now like to pass some of this information on in the hope that it may assist in suggesting a possible candidate, or candidates, for some of the reports. I have documented what would appear to be a selection of the most credible, consistent reports and have reformatted them as necessary to minimise content. I have removed the original message headers from some of the reports, however, exact copies of the original messages are available should these be requested. These reports have been obtained from a variety of sources. [Begin] In the summer of 1975, I saw a pair of triangular objects while stargazing with binoculars. At the time, I assumed that they must have been aircraft. But it's been a long time since then, and I haven't ever seen any airplanes, or whatever, that even remotely resemble the objects I saw. ...I was laying on the ground, looking through a pair of 20 power binoculars. My feet were pointed east, and the binoculars were pointed slightly to the right of straight up, at about the one o'clock position. Something went through my field of vision, moving right to left. I caught up to it quickly, and saw two objects flying in close formation, one in front, and the other behind, and to the right. They were both the same size, shaped like equilateral triangles with straight edges, flying point forward. Their color appeared to be flat slate gray, against a deep black sky. There were no features, and I saw no lights, or glow of any kind. They appeared to be illuminated by the city lights. It looked something like this: left (north) - .if this diagram doesn't - - .line up, select a fixed - - .font (like courier). This - - .line should be straight. - . - . - / \ - . - / \ - . - / \ - . - / \ - . I've draw this sideways - /_________\ - . because it was a little - - . - top . easier, and the proportions - - / \ -(west). are more accurate. - - / \ - . - / \ - . - / \ - . - /_________\ - . - - . - - . - - . - - . - - . - . right (south) There was something very peculiar about the way they looked as they flew. The craft in front appeared more steady than the trailing one, and the distance between them fluctuated randomly, varying from nearly touching, to a maximum of a triangle length. When the rear one began to lag, it would suddenly snap back to a comfortable distance from the front one. My impression was, that it looked as though they were being manually controlled by pilots, and as if they had very high power to weight ratio, and like they were somewhat hard to control. I watched them for about 8 to 12 seconds. During that time, they maintained a due north heading, and covered about 80 to 90 degrees of azimuth. After I lost sight of them, I waited for several minutes for any sound. I heard nothing. The binoculars were 20x50, with a field of view of 157 feet at 1000 yards. If you assume that the objects were about 100 feet long, and took up about 1/3 of the field of view, then their altitude would be 2000 yards, or 6000 feet, and their speed would be 568 mph. That seems pretty conventional, but I think I would have heard jets at that altitude. Furthermore, what jets have a perfect equilateral silhouette? The closest thing I can think of, is the B58 Hustler. But my view was clear enough, that I could have seen the little bit of fuselage in the front and back of the delta wing. I probably blew the simple geometry I used for the altitude and speed calculations, but I've given enough facts that one could calculate height and speed for any craft of a known size. If anyone has any information about similar sightings, I'd love to hear about it. ________________________________________________________________________ |Jay D. Ward, KG6FC | I keep *trying* to think, but... | |jward@lmsc.lockheed.com | nothing happens! | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________________________ From the 1994 U.K. TV Program, "Strange but True?": "Ray and Kathy Procek were driving along the motorway nearby (Bonnybridge). As they approached a viaduct spanning the road they say they saw an object the size of a Jumbo Jet, hovering above it." (Ray and Kathy are briefly interviewed at the viaduct and Ray states:) "The back end was elliptical and as we passed underneath it we could see it was triangular in shape. There was a light at each corner. We passed underneath the viaduct and looking back, there sitting on the other side was another craft and it looked like a mirror image, the way they were pointing towards each other." ____________________________________________________________________________ SUBJECT: Sighting Report A22C1 Please note this sighting report used the MUFON Sighting Report which I feel is quite inadequate. We have recently created a new sighting report which allows for more data, more specifics, in approximately 75% the space. Date of Sighting: 10-22-92 Sighting time: 7:50 p.m. Duration: 5 minutes. Place of sighting: Elk Grove, CA. Brief description: Triangular, with bright white lights that dim, object appeared solid. Brief description of location: Near a farmer's field just above the trees by telephone wires. What made you first notice: Bright light above trees not moving. Describe the object and its actions: Triangle shaped, moving slow in horizontal and vertical directions [note: a detailed picture was included with the sighting report]. Sky condition: Clear. Speed: 5 - 10 mph...followed me. Size- approximate small house. Any other witnesses: My son, fellow work colleagues. ____________________________________________________________________________ Continued... ------------------------------ From: James Easton Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 17:17 BST Subject: Triangular Craft Summary: - -------- "...shaped like equilateral triangles with straight edges, flying point forward." (Jay) California ? "The back end was elliptical and as we passed underneath it we could see it was triangular in shape. There was a light at each corner." "...an object the size of a Jumbo Jet, hovering..." Bonnybridge, Scotland. "Triangular, with bright white lights that dim..." "...above trees not moving...moving slow in horizontal and vertical directions..." Elk Grove, California. "...200 to 300 feet long, triangle shape..." "...flying silently just above the tops of trees." Tarpon Springs/Brooksville, Florida. "...a vast black flying wing, estimated at between 600 and 800 ft..." "...passed silently over city streets, empty desert and rural freeways. The craft moved so slowly one observer said he could jog along with it." Antelope Valley, California. "...a triangle shaped craft with lights on the corners." "It appears as an orange light at first...there was no sound. Escondido, California. "...a triangular-shaped craft...It had rounded corners and lights in the corners..." "...it just skimmed the trees, it made no engine sound - only a "whoooosh"-like noise. It was not flying fast..." Indiana. "...about the same size as a 747 at 20,000 feet, but triangular in shape." "it wasn't moving...I watched it directly overhead for a good 5 minutes. I used a tree branch as a reference point to confirm that it wasn't moving... There was no movement whatsoever. It maintained the exact same position - no rotation at. In fact, from the first moment I saw it until it disappeared, it just sat there, as if it were painted onto the sky. When it disappeared, it was as if someone had flipped a switch." Fairfax County, Virginia. "... an elongated, acute triangle with rounded edges... which had 3 lights on it in a triangular formation and a red "beacon" light underneath." "...what drew our attention to it was it's wobbly motion at first. It seemed like it was floating like a falling leaf...All the while no sound was heard until it was directly above us. It slowed and paused in mid-air for a second and emitted a real low but audible rumble which seemed to come on instantaneous, as if someone said "OK, turn on the sound"." Pittsburgh, PA. "Nearly 100 ft long and bathed in an orange/red light, triangular in shape with three floodlights at the corners." "...a strange craft was hovering at about roof height in the district... Apparently the craft matched pace with the car he was driving in..." Essex, England. "Large, airborne triangular shaped objects, usually with three distinct lights (one at each corner)...Smaller triangular craft...they appear to be close to isosceles triangles, but not quite. These almost invariably have one light in each corner...They also appear to have a fairly large, hemispherical "bubble" in the middle of the triangular surface..." Sacramento, California. "...you could tell when it flew over that it was a triangular shape, a perfect triangle." "...it stopped! It just hovered." Fairfield, California. With regard to the common description of a triangular shaped craft with rounded corners, one light at each corner and a central light, there is a scanned picture, generally named BELGUFO.GIF, available from many BBS's and ftp sites etc, which is a photograph, I believe taken by a policeman, of such a craft flying over Belgium in 1990. Perhaps the most intriguing comment contained in these reports is the following: "My wife (who does defense cost analysis) tells me that there's a military plane under development that matches my description (shape and the ability to hover) - except for the disappearing act." If this is authentic (I have asked but, perhaps understandably, no further information was forthcoming), is there in operation a triangular plane with the ability to hover, perhaps with highly sophisticated camouflage? Could this be at a _much_ later stage of development than is appreciated. Certainly, if Jay's detailed report is accurate, then something has to account for the two craft he describes from 1975. Interesting to note that his description of their maneuverability suggests they were not quite the finished article at that time. Can this be equated with any such known, suspected or rumoured covert delevopments? Continued... Summary: - -------- "...shaped like equilateral triangles with straight edges, flying point forward." (Jay) California ? "The back end was elliptical and as we passed underneath it we could see it was triangular in shape. There was a light at each corner." "...an object the size of a Jumbo Jet, hovering..." Bonnybridge, Scotland. "Triangular, with bright white lights that dim..." "...above trees not moving...moving slow in horizontal and vertical directions..." Elk Grove, California. "...200 to 300 feet long, triangle shape..." "...flying silently just above the tops of trees." Tarpon Springs/Brooksville, Florida. "...a vast black flying wing, estimated at between 600 and 800 ft..." "...passed silently over city streets, empty desert and rural freeways. The craft moved so slowly one observer said he could jog along with it." Antelope Valley, California. "...a triangle shaped craft with lights on the corners." "It appears as an orange light at first...there was no sound. Escondido, California. "...a triangular-shaped craft...It had rounded corners and lights in the corners..." "...it just skimmed the trees, it made no engine sound - only a "whoooosh"-like noise. It was not flying fast..." Indiana. "...about the same size as a 747 at 20,000 feet, but triangular in shape." "it wasn't moving...I watched it directly overhead for a good 5 minutes. I used a tree branch as a reference point to confirm that it wasn't moving... There was no movement whatsoever. It maintained the exact same position - no rotation at. In fact, from the first moment I saw it until it disappeared, it just sat there, as if it were painted onto the sky. When it disappeared, it was as if someone had flipped a switch." Fairfax County, Virginia. "... an elongated, acute triangle with rounded edges... which had 3 lights on it in a triangular formation and a red "beacon" light underneath." "...what drew our attention to it was it's wobbly motion at first. It seemed like it was floating like a falling leaf...All the while no sound was heard until it was directly above us. It slowed and paused in mid-air for a second and emitted a real low but audible rumble which seemed to come on instantaneous, as if someone said "OK, turn on the sound"." Pittsburgh, PA. "Nearly 100 ft long and bathed in an orange/red light, triangular in shape with three floodlights at the corners." "...a strange craft was hovering at about roof height in the district... Apparently the craft matched pace with the car he was driving in..." Essex, England. "Large, airborne triangular shaped objects, usually with three distinct lights (one at each corner)...Smaller triangular craft...they appear to be close to isosceles triangles, but not quite. These almost invariably have one light in each corner...They also appear to have a fairly large, hemispherical "bubble" in the middle of the triangular surface..." Sacramento, California. "...you could tell when it flew over that it was a triangular shape, a perfect triangle." "...it stopped! It just hovered." Fairfield, California. With regard to the common description of a triangular shaped craft with rounded corners, one light at each corner and a central light, there is a scanned picture, generally named BELGUFO.GIF, available from many BBS's and ftp sites etc, which is a photograph, I believe taken by a policeman, of such a craft flying over Belgium in 1990. Perhaps the most intriguing comment contained in these reports is the following: "My wife (who does defense cost analysis) tells me that there's a military plane under development that matches my description (shape and the ability to hover) - except for the disappearing act." If this is authentic (I have asked but, perhaps understandably, no further information was forthcoming), is there in operation a triangular plane with the ability to hover, perhaps with highly sophisticated camouflage? Could this be at a _much_ later stage of development than is appreciated. Certainly, if Jay's detailed report is accurate, then something has to account for the two craft he describes from 1975. Interesting to note that his description of their maneuverability suggests they were not quite the finished article at that time. Can this be equated with any such known, suspected or rumoured covert delevopments? Continued... ------------------------------ From: James Easton Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 17:16 BST Subject: Triangular Craft Some background info: I and all parties concerned live in Pittsburgh, PA... ...Some nights before we were in my driveway and spotted a craft (won't call it a plane yet) which had 3 lights on it in a triangular formation and a red "beacon" light underneath. Now what drew our attention to it was it's wobbly motion at first. It seemed like it was floating like a falling leaf (since we live on a flight path to the Pittsburgh International Airport which is about 3 miles away, we see planes and helo's all the time). We ran out into the street to get a better view and at the same time it came out from the trees it was behind at a fairly rapid (but still within normal aircraft flight characteristics) speed. The craft seemed to be at about 2,000 feet but it is hard to estimate distances at night. All the while no sound was heard until it was directly above us. It slowed and paused in mid-air for a second and emitted a real low but audible rumble which seemed to come on instantaneous, as if someone said "OK, turn on the sound". Most jets, civilian and military are pretty loud at this height when they are directly above you. Anyway all of us agreed it was strange but pretty much agreed that it was some kind of military aircraft. We could see a faint outline of an elongated, acute triangle with rounded edges but it was very faint the only reason I think we saw it was because the underside reflected no light and the background was brighter due to the clouds. Had this been a clear night I doubt we would have detected an outline. Anyway, has anyone else had any sightings of unusual nature in this area recently? If so let me know. ____________________________________________________________________________ Sunday, 8 Jan 95 Apparently there was a rash of sightings all across Essex towards the end of November. What makes this more significant was the fact that they were all on the same night and they all described the same craft... On Monday 28th November there were over 100 phone calls made to Colchester Police reporting that a strange craft was hovering at about roof height in the district. It was even reported that rush hour traffic was slowing down so that the drivers could watch the UFO. The description that all callers gave was the same: Nearly 100 ft long and bathed in an orange/red light, triangular in shape with three floodlights at the corners. An eye witness reported to the paper what he had seen: "I was driving home when I became aware of a sudden burst of light above me. I couldn't see what is was for a couple of minutes, but then it moved ahead of me and I could clearly see three bright white lights in a triangle shape. One of them was flashing every few seconds." Apparently the craft matched pace with the car he was driving in for several (subjective?) minutes after which it shot off at great speed. ____________________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 For about a month, I have been working with a man in Sacramento, CA, who is involved in an ongoing case in the Sacramento area. The man has, since November, been regularly going to parts of Sacramento and Yolo counties (almost nightly) and videotaping unusual objects and activities. These videotapes include: 1. Large, airborne triangular shaped objects, usually with three distinct lights (one at each corner), occasionally with additional, fainter lights on what would be the leading edges of an aircraft fuselage. 2. Smaller triangular craft which appear to be 20 to 30 feet on each side. These craft are not equilateral triangles, they appear to be close to isosceles triangles, but not quite. These almost invariably have one light in each corner; one red, one white, and one medium blue. They also appear to have a fairly large, hemispherical "bubble" in the middle of the triangular surface, which sometimes glows, getting extremely bright for short periods. ...I have seen approximately three hours of Richard's video tapes. He tells me that he now has more than thirty hours of tapes, which increases regularly as he goes out and shoots more pictures. I have seen the first three types of objects described above on tape and the descriptions of those are my own account of what I have seen. The tapes, by the way, vary in quality from good to poor. A few are daylight, most are twilight or nighttime and much is void of fixed, ground reference points. ____________________________________________________________________________ Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 INTERVIEW WITH A WITNESS (A PILOT) TO A UFO SIGHTING - FAIRFIELD CA. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [Deletion] DJ: It was moving across my line of sight, a few hundred yards away up in the air. We were just to the west of the windmill generators. There are some hills to the north. So the object was over the hills. As it came over I could see it pretty well and then it banked. It was going slower than a plane could have flown as far as I could tell because it was too low. MC: What was it's approximate altitude? DJ: I'd say approximately five hundred feet. When it banked it banked at a very extreme angle, like over forty five degrees. MC: When you first spotted it how far away did it look? DJ: A couple thousand feet away. MC: How large did it appear to be? DJ: It looked really pretty large, about the size of a, but not quite as big as, one of those huge transports. MC: Like a C-5? DJ: Yeah, but it was a little smaller than that but possibly as big as a 747. I thought it was a bomber at first but it was going to slow for how low it was. And then all those lights on the front. I have never seen planes with a whole row of lights. MC: You say it was going slow, near stall speed for a plane? DJ: Below stall speed for a plane. Especially when it stopped! It just hovered. At first I couldn't really see the shape because it was a dark color but the lights were so bright that you could tell when it flew over that it was a triangular shape, a perfect triangle. ____________________________________________________________________________ Continued... ------------------------------ From: James Easton Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 17:17 BST Subject: Triangular Craft Finally, two topical cross-postings which will hopefully be of interest. [Begin] 1. "My husbands friend today was working in Escondido when he heard a loud boom and went outside to look around. He saw a very bright X-shaped thing in the sky very high over the I-15 and gopher canyon road area moving very slowly. He stated that while he was staring at it, it vanished all at once while has was not blinking. This might be related to the booming noises reported in the press and TV and denied by the military that has been occurring in the area this month. Anyone with anything to add please send me a message." 2. "A KABC news crew has photos of Aurora and it does exist. It can not be broadcast due to national security laws." I have e-mailed the person who posted the last message, asking for more detailed information. You just never know... Cheers, James. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: TEXJE@VAXB.HW.AC.UK Internet: JAMES.EASTON@STAIRWAY.CO.UK - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: James Easton Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 17:15 BST Subject: Triangular Craft Just a quick one--- rather large UFO spotted by numerous people on Friday night April 16 in Tarpon Springs and Brooksville, Florida. Seen by Police and others who discript it as 200 to 300 feet long, triangle shape, flying silently just above the tops of trees. This was written up in the St. Petersburg Times on the following Monday and Tuesday paper. ____________________________________________________________________________ Skunk Works Digest V5 #166 "America's New Secret Aircraft", Popular Mechanics, December 1991'' The big wing. Meanwhile, several Antelope Valley residents say they've seen a craft that simply strains credulity. According to reports over the past two years, a vast black flying wing, estimated at between 600 and 800 ft. in width, has passed silently over city streets, empty desert and rural freeways. The craft moved so slowly one observer said he could jog along with it. A pattern of seemingly random white lights on the vehicle's black underside provided "constellation camouflage" against the starry sky. Observers who followed the craft long enough detailed unlikely maneuvers in which the vehicle stopped, rotated in place and hovered vertically, presenting a thin trailing edge to the ground. Although such sightings encourage those who link the military with unearthly technology, a mammoth, quiet flying wing may have a conventional explanation: It could be a lighter-than-air craft pushed by slow-turning propellers. Certainly, such a vehicle could elude Doppler radar by slowing to a crawl. Alternatively, the fact that the craft holds station vertically suggests that it might serve as a huge reflector for a bistatic radar system. Other possible missions include troop delivery or covert surveillance. [...]'' ____________________________________________________________________________ Date: 12-02-94 *@SUBJECT: Recent sightings in the Escondido, California area. My sister has sighted the same UFO three times in the last 2 weeks. It appears as an orange light at first and closer up as a triangle shaped craft with lights on the corners. She saw it very close up and stated there was no sound. ____________________________________________________________________________ My daughter and I saw a triangular-shaped craft fly very low over our yard. It had rounded corners and lights in the corners and though it just skimmed the trees, it made no engine sound - only a "whoooosh"-like noise. It was not flying fast and there were one or two others in the area at the same time but not as close. It almost seemed as if they were surveying the area. There were newspaper reports soon after that confirmed our sighting but we never reported it. ____________________________________________________________________________ Date: 9 Dec 1994 I saw a triangular craft high in the sky above northern Virginia about 2 weeks ago. I was hiking in Huntley Meadows Park (in Fairfax County, just south of Alexandr. and I was watching a hawk soaring way up high. The hawk left my field of vision and I spotted what I at first thought was another hawk. Then I thought it was a jet. But, it wasn't moving. It was about the same altitude as a commercial jet (although, it's difficult to judge because I don't know how large it was), it was about the same size as a 747 at 20,000 feet, but triangular in shape). I watched it directly overhead for a good 5 minutes. I used a tree branch as a reference point to confirm that it wasn't moving. Just when the hairs on the back of my neck were starting to bristle, an Army helicopter roared in at low altitude from the south (not uncommon, since this park is about 3-4 miles north of Ft. Belvoir and Davidson Field, which is Army aircraft field). Just before the helicopter came into view, the triangle disappeared. I was watching all the while, and I didn't blink. It was as if someone had flipped a switch. This occurred on the Saturday after Thanksgiving, at about 1PM local time. I heard no noise whatsoever (until the helicopter showed up, of course). * As this was a recent posting, I was able to follow it up * >When you say it appeared absolutely motionless for around 5 minutes then >simply disappeared, can you confirm that you did not see the object rotate >in any way during that time. There was no movement whatsoever. It maintained the exact same position - no rotation at. In fact, from the first moment I saw it until it disappeared, it just sat there, as if it were painted onto the sky. When it disappeared, it was as if someone had flipped a switch. I didn't see any sign of it going in any direction, nor did the triangle get smaller (as it might've, if it had been going straight up). >Can you also confirm if there were any lights visible on the craft and if >so, where. I saw no lights. This occurred at about 1PM on a bright sunny day. If there were any lights, it was too bright out to see them, and the object was too distant. With my arm outstretched, using my fingers to "pinch" the object, it was no larger than a quarter cm across. My wife (who does defense cost analysis) tells me that there's a military plane under development that matches my description (shape and the ability to hover) - except for the disappearing act. * A question posed by another subscriber * >Perhaps it was a military plane as your wife describes. If such an object >was a plane and it turned on its edge so as to present a minimal profile to >you, it may seem to disappear. Yes, quite easily. * Further subscribers correspondence * >Another idea might be that the aircraft changed color to match its >surroundings like a chameleon. Do you think it's possible they are .developing a high-tech surface that can optically camouflage itself? After >all, I'm sure there are many substances which can change hue with >temperature or voltage. >Actually there is work being done in the area of "visual stealth" for >tactical aircraft. There are programs to develop active coatings that can >be applied which will adapt to the ambient color and light levels, but as >far as I know that is still in the R&D stages. ____________________________________________________________________________ Continued... ------------------------------ From: James Easton Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 17:29 BST Subject: Triangular Craft - Postscript It appears that for some reason my mail software has duplicated part 4 of the posting and has forwarded it twice, albeit as one file. Apologies for any inconvenience. James. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: TEXJE@VAXB.HW.AC.UK Internet: JAMES.EASTON@STAIRWAY.CO.UK - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:49:32 -0800 Subject: Re: Aurora, maybe so? Christian Jacobsen writes: >Here I go again... I know what you mean! :) >One of Ben Rich's final comments in his "Skunk Works" book is that the name >"Aurora" was used for assesing the budget for a new program. It was >determined unsuitable, and the "Aurora" budget was cancelled, never having >been so much as blueprints for a plane. He is very vehement in this >assertion. I agree. I'm in the same mess. Ben/USAF have said there is no hypersonic airplane. There is interesting intelligence saying there is or WAS a high speed airplane. Relax, let time tell. It may take awhile! >So, I assume that this list, when referring to the hypothetical new plane that >is supposedly being designed to replace the SR71, uses the name "Aurora" out >of convenience rather than accuracy. Am I right? You are correct! > Are we all in agreement >that the name "Aurora" is just the name we are attaching to whatever "black" >plane is currently being tested? No. Personally, I use 'AURORA' as a moniker for only the high speed airplane, not the other alleged designs. >Just curious. If anyone has any reason to think that 'ol Ben was pulling the >wool over our eyes and the sightings have been of something called "Aurora", No, I would be VERY surprised if the name 'AURORA' is actually being used anymore, 'AURORA' is just a moniker we use for lack of a better name. That said, I do believe Ben was overexerting himself somewhat in terms of being anti-hypersonic in his book. His last conversation with me, about a year before he died, wasn't so negative. In fact he did say that we could get to Tokyo in 2 hours, but there were other problems dealing with airport logistics congestion that would be exacerbated by such a widespread thing. He never went into any of the anti-hypersonic stuff. Although Ben has been outspoken that high speed flight is not as easy as some think, he has not exactly been as negative as he was in his book as of late. In Oct., 1986, in a speech to the First High Speed Commercial Flight Symposium, held at Columbus, Ohio. Ben said that Lockheed had a continuing interest in high speed flight, and that they had conducted a number of studies supporting USAF and NASA hypersonic initiatives. In June 1990, Ben was asked about technologies for a SR-71 successor. (Defense News 6/25/90: (pg 38)). Ben wasn't too negative about successor high speed aircraft when he said that we could do anything we could afford (he said the same thing to me, and I think he said that at least once in the book as well). He said, if we wanted to go from Mach 6-8, you needed a cryogenic fuel to sink heat. He was also asked about AURORA in this interview and he denied any knowledge about it, but he also said "there are a whole bunch of programs out there". Larry ------------------------------ From: jackg@holobyte.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:20:54 -0800 Subject: TR-3A This post appeared on the aircraft listserv. Since the TR-3 has appeared lately on the skunk-works, I thought someone might be interested. If this has already been posted and I missed it, I'm sorry for the repeat. "I've done it over and over.. You see, I kill breeders." "God is dead." -Nietzche "Nietzche is dead." -God Lumber ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: TR-3A Author: Gavin Stratford at Internet Date: 1/19/95 9:59 AM Thanks to everyone who wrote to me about the stealth thing. several have asked if there is any info on the "TR-3A" ? well an article which springs to mind was in AIR INTERNATIONAL SEPT 94 on page 142 titled "Wizard wars & air power in the 21st century - part 1". The title of the article is a bit naff :-), and the author a someone called Dr David Baker,who ever he may be ?? The contents are well written and Air international is a very respectable (and good) publication. The article outlines the concept of TAV (trans-Atmospheric Vehicles) and claims that there are designs capable in theory of mach 15 !!?? The involvement of US governement dept and contractor (including Northrop) are outlined before the aim of providing a real-time recon system for use with stealth aircraft is stated. Then, most interestingly, in a very authoratative matter-of-fact style, the author outlines the use of the TR-3 in Desert storm !!!! It is claimed that the TR-3 operated in conjunction with the F-117 to produce real-time digital imagery (similar to J-STARS ???) for US- only use ! Line diagrammes are given for several TAVs and the specification for the TR-3, also known as THAP (Northrop Tactical High Altitude Penetrator) is given. It is: span = 19 metres, length = 13 meters, height = 4.3 meters, max wt = 28,120 kg. G.E. F404 engines which were specially modified were fitted for a range of in excess of 5,630 km. Apparently 30 were bought. The prototype was a single seat triangular spanloader and "had the appearance of a manta ray" Interestingly, quote "Towards the end of the 1980's, the TR-3A began intensive flight operations, training with the F-117A it was designed to support. Because of this, and as part of the NATO co-operation programme, RAF pilots have had the chance to test fly and simulate missions with the TR-3A and it has from time to time made an appearance over the UK" !!?? The article then goes on to describe some of the more exotic forms of propulsion units for these type of aircraft. The author promised diagrammes of the TR-3A in part 2 of the article. Part 2 has so far failed to surface ??!! mmmmmhh ?? Gav ******************************* * Dr Gavin Stratford * * Senior Research Assistant * * Materials Engineering Dept * * University College Swansea * * United Kingdom * ******************************* ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #186 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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