From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #199 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 7 February 1995 Volume 05 : Number 199 In this issue: RAF Macrahanish Triangular Craft (Warning: cold water) SR-71s at Mildenhall Re: M4 Stealth Lockheed's 'Lifting Body' Airship Proposal help Re: Lockheed's 'Lifting Body' Airship Proposal Re: M4 Stealth SR-71 picture order update Re: SR-71 picture order update SLED DRIVER book Re: SLED DRIVER book Triangular Craft Re: Air and Space Magazine Re: Air and Space Magazine Aerofax Skunk Works Book Re: Air and Space Magazine Re: Air and Space Magazine Re: Air and Space Magazine This week's AW&ST NASA gallery Re: Air and Space Magazine See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk (John Burtenshaw) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 10:57:18 +0000 Subject: RAF Macrahanish Hi all I was monitoring Oceanic air traffic control on 5.616 MHz during the afternoon of Sunday 5 Feb 1995 when I heard a USAF transport plane ask for the Scottish Region air traffic control frequency. What surprised me was that the eventual destination of this airplane was RAF Macrahanish (I think thats the spelling) which I always believed was now closed except for *care and maintenace* by the RAF. Unfortunately I did not get all of the callsign of the USAF 'plane only that it was Reach 200??? which ids a transporter of some kind. Is Macrahanish being prepared for SR-71 flights I wonder? Also after the crash of the RAF Chinook on the Isle of Mull last year which killed several high-ranking Intelligence and security officers involved in Northern Ireland Machrahanish was activated within minutes to provide airfield services for the rescue choppers. Troops were also deployed very quickly to the site to prevent anyone *sightseeing* according to radio reports at the time. As the crash sight was miles from any Army base that I know of in that region where did they come from? Can Macrahanish only be *deactivated* officially, but unoffically still being used bearing in mind the *Aurora* reports. Makes ya think. John ============================================================================= John Burtenshaw BOURNEMOUTH System Administrator, The Computer Centre UNIVERSITY - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -Postal Address: Talbot Campus, Fern Barrow, POOLE, Dorset, BH12 5BB Internet: jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk Phone: 01202 595089 Fax: 01202 513293 Packet Radio: G1HOK @ GB7BNM.#45.GBR.EU AMPRnet: G1HOK.ampr.org. [44.131.17.82] Compuserve: 10033,3113 ============================================================================= ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 14:35:28 MET Subject: Triangular Craft (Warning: cold water) Maybe I should discuss that privately with James Easton, but I don't want that some naive skunkers (if naive skunkers do exist, which I doubt) believe that it is likely that two F-16's intercepted an UFO... >Defence Department report, Belgium:"On some occasions they described the >phenomena as a triangle-shaped platform up to 200 feet wide with 3 downward >beaming projectors, hovering at +- 100 m above the ground and making >only a very light humming noise...On two occasions the BAF scrambled >2 F-16's during the evening hours...On the second occasion, pilots >could identify a laser-beam projector on the ground...A total of 9 >interception attempts have been made. On 6 occasions the pilots could >establish a lock-on with their air interception radar. Lock-on distances >varied between 5 and 8 NM. On all occasions targets varied speed and >altitude very quickly and break-locks occurred after 10 to 60 seconds. >Speeds varied between 150 and 1010 kts. At 3 occasions both F16's >registered simultaneous lock-ons with the same parameters. The above lines, posted by James Easton ( Fri, 3 Feb 95 17:42 BST), are excerpts from an old "SUMMARY REPORT ON OBSERVATIONS 30-31 MARCH 1990", written by Col. (now General) De Brouwer. Further studies have been made, and the conclusions are different. The first "two occasions" were before the night 30-31 March 1990, and the "laser-beam projector on ground" was used by a night-club (this was well known, and was what De Brouwer meant in his summary). During the night 30-31 March, the pilot of the second F-16 video recorded his radar echoes. It apppears now (Gilmard&Lt. Col. Salmon's study) that the first lock-ons, with speed and altitude varying very quickly, could be "ground clutter", while the one which lasted for 60 seconds, with nearly constant altitude and speed, was the first F-16. Now the Belgian military say "though this is not excluded, there is no proof that we got echoes from a real object with unusual abilities". On the other hand, the materiality of the Belgian object(s) is not questioned by any sensible person (BTW, though rather triangular, it was not exactly triangular or "triangular with rounded corners"). Whatever it was (and even if it were a NATO craft), it has ridiculed the NATO defenses during 18 months. J. Pharabod ------------------------------ From: Alistair M Henderson Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 13:57:10 GMT Subject: SR-71s at Mildenhall Hi there, Further to all the recent discussions about the re-activation of the USAF's SR-71s, someone told me this morning that the old SR-71 barns at RAF Mildenhall are currently being worked on. Could they be overhauling them for possible future use by Blackbirds? I suppose it could just be a precautionary measure in case one ever has to make an emergency landing in the UK... Ali Henderson. Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh, Scotland. ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 16:08:01 MET Subject: Re: M4 Stealth >M4 means its hot (approaching glow in the dark). >Hot means not stealthy. All the radar stealth in the world is no good >if the a/c glows like a comet. IR detectors are better (lots) than >the human eye. >dwp (Wed, 1 Feb 95 20:45:34 EST) I thought that the (M)D-21 flew at Mach 4. If I am right, was it that hot, and nearly glowing ? J. Pharabod ------------------------------ From: David Windle Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 15:23:15 Subject: Lockheed's 'Lifting Body' Airship Proposal I think maybe we can look a little closer to home with regard to the silent/quiet hovering triangular aircraft seen of late. Can I draw your attention to a Lockheed proposal for a Small Rigid Airship (SRA) going back to 1984.In the introduction to the paper they state "Engineers are no longer restricted to use the classical "Cigar" shapes of the past...Because we can form these new materials to more desirable aerodynamic shapes,we can now develop the small rigid airship to be a practical vehicle." It goes on to say "These new SRAs will look more like 'Lifting Body Vehicles than Blimps". The purpose of the paper was not to propose any particular design for the SRA but to discuss it's feasibility. The 'Starship' in their paper is around 160 feet long and 45 feet high.It was to be filled with Helium and hot air. The abstact was written by Roy Gibbens of Lockheed. The very nature of airships renders them stealthy because the materials from which they are made give them a low RCS. Perhaps it's worth considering that an SRA would make an excellent Special Forces personnel deployment vehicle and would presumably engines would be ideal. If these engines were mounted within the hull as in the old US rigid ships they would also be screened from IR. BTW did my Aurora..In Thrust we trust get onto the list or is it lost in cyberspace. If it did and I'm wrong I'd appreciate being put straight! Best wishes David ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Glinn @NEW 06-Feb-1995 1550" Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 07:48:30 PST Subject: help help ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 18:21:15 MET Subject: Re: Lockheed's 'Lifting Body' Airship Proposal >I think maybe we can look a little closer to home with regard to >the silent/quiet hovering triangular aircraft seen of late. Can >I draw your attention to a Lockheed proposal for a Small Rigid >Airship (SRA) going back to 1984.In the introduction to the >paper they state "Engineers are no longer restricted to use the >classical "Cigar" shapes of the past...Because we can form these >new materials to more desirable aerodynamic shapes,we can now >develop the small rigid airship to be a practical vehicle." >It goes on to say "These new SRAs will look more like 'Lifting >Body Vehicles than Blimps". >The purpose of the paper was not to propose any particular design >for the SRA but to discuss it's feasibility. The 'Starship' in >their paper is around 160 feet long and 45 feet high.It was to be >filled with Helium and hot air. >David Windle (Mon, 06 Feb 1995 15:23:15) If they chose a quasi-triangular shape, this would be the best candidate possible to explain the Belgian sightings, the "big wing" quoted in "America's New Secret Aircraft" (Pop. Mechanics, Dec. 91), and the September-November 93 sightings in England reported by James Easton! Wonderful! BTW, I have (not here unfortunately) a reference about a relatively recent airship which can (could?) reach 170 m.p.h. This is not extraordinary, the big Hindenburg already could reach 84 m.p.h. If this (still hypothetical) Lockheed airship could accelerate quickly from 20 m.p.h. to 200 m.p.h., this would explain why some witnesses think it can depart at high speed. J. Pharabod ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 09:54:37 -0800 Subject: Re: M4 Stealth >I thought that the (M)D-21 flew at Mach 4. If I am right, was it that >hot, and nearly glowing ? The official top speed, which seems to be correct, for the D-21 series would be around the same top speed as the other Blackbirds, namely Mach 3.2 or thereabouts. I WAS told by a Marquardt guy, who worked the D-21 program, that the combustor had a fuel control that could be adjusted for Mach 4, but after time, he kind of, retracted that (sorry for the imprecision here). The picture of the longer inlet spike in Millers 50th Anniv. Skunk Works book is also interesting in this regard. But, I would have to say, that I do believe that the D-21's as built and flown were Mach 3.2 or so birds. The X-7 propuslion test vehicles of the 1950's, which were used to develop Marquardt and Lockheed ramjet technology, did get up over Mach 4 during test flights. But the claim was not that Mach 4 wasn't feasible, but that it was too hot for stealth nowadays. It's also interesting that Convair's proposed competitor to Lockheed was a Mach 4 design, using the benefit of Lockheed's funded X-7 work, to compete against Lockheed! Regards, Larry ------------------------------ From: ron@habu.stortek.com (Ron Schweikert) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 10:59:29 MST Subject: SR-71 picture order update Hello everyone, hope your Monday's going well Sorry to bother everyone with this, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss any one. Below is a list of the people I have reserved a set of slides for. IF YOU'RE NAME ISN'T HERE, PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP! It's certainly possible that I dropped a mail message somewhere along the line. I'm going to turn in the order on Thursday. I believe the turnaround is 4 days. If I don't have your snail mail address I'll be contacting you for it off-line soon. I hope you all enjoy them. Hopefully they will round out your collection of SR shots since I've never seen any published that showed all the ground equipment and a "typical trim-pad" day. Ron ==================== Davidw.Thompson@corp.sun.com I.J.Deeley@sussex.ac.uk KEENANK@sugarloaf.ksc.nasa.gov MiGEater1@aol.com Ray.W.Maynard@cdc.com adrian.thurlow@bt-sys.bt.co.uk ahhgo!jviehweg@uunet.uu.net cd2d+@andrew.cmu.edu czbb062@access.texas.gov dchallis@autodesk.com dougt@u011.oh.vp.com gordoncs@VNET.IBM.COM ijb@unb.ca jclear@staff.cc.purdue.edu jewing@ishp2.Az.Honeywell.COM jgladu@bcm.tmc.edu john.stone@shivasys.com jostrand@sgate.com lumber@dnai.com mam@plaza.ds.adp.com mhobart@mines.utah.edu mike@jabberwock.mitre.org mjm@wru.org randy@halcyon.com rossix!philmc@openlink.openlink.com simplyt@hiflight.com timb@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu tommy@netcom.com ------------------------------ From: rossix!philmc@openlink.openlink.com (Phil Mcintosh) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 11:32:11 -0800 Subject: Re: SR-71 picture order update Ron, My SNAIL mail is Phil McIntosh Ross Systems 555 Twin Dolphin Drive Redwood City CA 94065 415-593-2500 I appreciatate your offer on this and the response looks like it was well received. I look forward to seeing them. How do we work out payment? Can I drop you your money now so you don't have such a large out of pocket expense? Let me know. Phil ------------------------------ From: TURK@uwplatt.edu Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 16:04:22 -0600 (CST) Subject: SLED DRIVER book Can anyone provide me with information on a book titled "SLED DRIVER"? I saw it in the bookstore on a base I was staioned on a couple years ago, but I haven't seen it in any other stores. The author is a guy who , obviously, was an SR-71 pilot. He also owns/is part owner (?) of a photo/camera shop somewhere in California. The pictures in this book were nothing less than fantastic, to say the least! Anyone? Anyone? turk@uwplatt.edu Thanks in advance! ------------------------------ From: Per Danielsson Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 01:24:14 +0100 Subject: Re: SLED DRIVER book >Can anyone provide me with information on a book titled "SLED DRIVER"? Sled Drier - Flying the Worlds Fastest Jet, by Brian Shul. Midlands Publishing Limited 24 The Hollow, Earl Shilton Leicester, LE9 7NA England Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 91-062709 ISBN: 1 85780 002 8 PD - -- Per Danielsson pd@sics.se Swedish Institute of Computer Science, PO Box 1263, S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN N59.24.20, E17.56.53 "You got the UNIX-book.. Coool.." ------------------------------ From: James Easton Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 0:58 BST Subject: Triangular Craft I have come across a further report of the recent incident over the Pennines. This report had already been cross-posted in the U.K. without a reference to the original source but I believe it has emanated from a "quality" newspaper. I have mentioned the following extract as it contains a significant additional comment, not mentioned in the other reports I have seen. "A Close encounter between a British Airways jet with 60 passengers on board and an illuminated, triangular-shaped unidentified flying object at 13,000 feet above the Pennines is under formal investigation by the Civil Aviation Authority, Harvey Elliot writes. Captain Roger Willis and his co-pilot Mark Stuart were beginning their descent towards Manchester airport after a flight from Milan last month when both pilots spotted something coming towards them. Very fast. It flashed down the right hand side of their Boeing 737 twin jet "very close" according to the formal report...the shaken crew decided to file after being told by air-traffic controllers that the only thing which had shown up on radars was their own aircraft. The mystery of what was seen by the crew of flight 506l is one of four reports of unidentified flying objects which have been investigated by the CAA's Joint Airmiss Working Group since 1987, but which are still unexplained. Three of the craft have been described as either triangular or lozenge shaped... The JAWG, which is made up of representatives of pilots organisations, airlines, trade unions, military experts and cynics has not yet tried to piece together the evidence of what could have caused the near miss... [END] It therefore appears that this is not the first such encounter, although almost certainly the closest. I presume the description "triangular or lozenge shaped..." doesn't add any further insight? Cheers, James. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: TEXJE@VAXB.HW.AC.UK Internet: JAMES.EASTON@STAIRWAY.CO.UK - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 22:10:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Air and Space Magazine You've missed the X-1E. I know they built and flew one; it's on a stick out in front of Dryden. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 00:01:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Air and Space Magazine On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, Mary Shafer wrote: > You've missed the X-1E. I know they built and flew one; it's on a stick > out in front of Dryden. You have to get up P-r-e-t-t-y early in the morning to one-up some of the folks on this list. ;-) Y'all check out this month's Smithsonian's Air and Space. It's got a couple of neat articles, and the recent Av Leak, one or the other had a neat comparison of US and Russian space suits. Don't miss it! BaDge ------------------------------ From: cancelli@badlands.NoDak.edu (Mike Cancellier) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 23:06:22 -0600 Subject: Aerofax Skunk Works Book Hello everybody! I have been looking all over the place for Jay Miller's Skunk Works book. Can anybody tell me where to find it? I don't have the Aerofax number, but was wondering if it is distributed through normal channels. I asked at the biggest bookstore I have every been in, and they had never heard of it. Thanks in advance, Mike Mike Cancellier, 1Lt USAF "Deuce, the Cadillac of Weapon Systems" 321st OSS, Grand Forks AFB, ND Cancelli@badlands.NoDak.edu "happiness is a freebie keyturn" TechKing@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 00:06:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Air and Space Magazine Mary wrote: >You've missed the X-1E. I know they built and flew one; it's on a stick >out in front of Dryden. No, she is there, a little bit hidden, but she is there: >X-1, Bell, super-sonic speed research > 1 X-1, 46-0062, ex XS-1 > 1 X-1, 46-0063, ex XS-1, to X-1E <== here she is! :) > 1 X-1, 46-0064, ex XS-1 > 1 X-1A, 48-1384 > 1 X-1B, 48-1385 > 1 X-1C, (48-1386 ?), canceled, mock-up only > 1 X-1D, 48-1386 - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software 313 West Court St. #305 schnars@umcc.ais.org Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 01:27:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Air and Space Magazine Just a piece of X-1 trivia--Paul McCall was commissioned to paint a mural here at Dryden about 10 or 15 years ago. Right in the center is the X-1 Glamorous Glennis in bright orange--only it's got the X-1E tail number on it. At least my mistake wasn't quite so permanent.... Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote: > Mary wrote: > > >You've missed the X-1E. I know they built and flew one; it's on a stick > >out in front of Dryden. > > No, she is there, a little bit hidden, but she is there: > > >X-1, Bell, super-sonic speed research > > 1 X-1, 46-0062, ex XS-1 > > 1 X-1, 46-0063, ex XS-1, to X-1E <== here she is! :) > > 1 X-1, 46-0064, ex XS-1 > > 1 X-1A, 48-1384 > > 1 X-1B, 48-1385 > > 1 X-1C, (48-1386 ?), canceled, mock-up only > > 1 X-1D, 48-1386 > > -- Andreas > > --- --- > Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software > 313 West Court St. #305 schnars@umcc.ais.org > Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 > --- --- > ------------------------------ From: Illya Kuryakin Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 22:32:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Air and Space Magazine Damn, I love Mary's posts. :} Rick kuryakin@halcyon.com kuryakin@arn.net ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 22:46:56 -0800 Subject: This week's AW&ST You guys are going to enjoy this week's AW&ST! Another Black Project issue! I'll let Andreas do his normal thorough job of posting it along with all the goodies! Larry ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:47:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: NASA gallery I am wondering if Paul McCall, whom Mary mentioned, is the same person who made the painting of the fictitious YF-12C (flying in formation with a YF-12A), which is displayed in the Dryden gift shop's 'gallery section'. The picture is based on the well known photograph of "YF-12C" "06937", flying in company with YF-12A "06935", which is carrying the 'Coldwall' heat-transfer experiment pod. This photo is, for example, in Paul F. Crickmore's book 'Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird' on pages 62/63 and is also displayed in the 'history section' of the gift shop at Dryden. This painting shows the SR-71A (64-17951) not only with its fictitious serial "06937", but also with a shorter YF-12A tail, YF-12A-like fins under the engines, and if I remember correctly, even with the YF-12A camera pods attached. Talk about 'historically accurate'... - -- Andreas PS: My AW&ST hasn't arrived yet, but when it does, I will live up to my duties and post a summary. :) - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software 313 West Court St. #305 schnars@umcc.ais.org Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 - --- --- ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 10:45:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Air and Space Magazine On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, Illya Kuryakin wrote: > Damn, I love Mary's posts. > > :} > > Rick Me too. I'll tell you what...we are lucky to have some amazing women in the Aerospace Field, eh? Especially the young mission specialist currently being colorfully splashed on CNN! Go Eileen Collins - Astronaut/SpaceShuttle Pilot! Here is a pointer to her bio if you are interested, it's fascinating. Yeah, she's already married. :-) http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/astrobio.html. BaDge ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #199 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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