From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #200 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 8 February 1995 Volume 05 : Number 200 In this issue: Re: Aerofax Skunk Works Book jet propulsion questions... Re: Air and Space Magazine Aerofax Skunk Works Book Triangles? - Possibly a source of technical information Aerofax Skunk Works Book Triangles? - Possibly a source of technical information KEAS & compressor stall Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #177 3 questions Aerofax Blackbird humor on usenet AW&ST February 6, 1995 (long) Re: 3 questions See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bernie Rosen Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 08:03:32 PST Subject: Re: Aerofax Skunk Works Book In msg Mike writes: >I have been looking all over the place for Jay Miller's Skunk Works book. >Can anybody tell me where to find it? I don't have the Aerofax number, but >was wondering if it is distributed through normal channels. I asked at the >biggest bookstore I have every been in, and they had never heard of it. I tried calling Aerofax last week and there is a strange recording that they have that states (roughly) that they are closed and are trying to sell the retail store business but also have several works still in the publishing pipeline. They "intend" to try and continue with the mail order business when things settle down. Looks like we need another aviation specialty bookstore. Bernie - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - brosen@ames.arc.nasa.gov NASA Ames AIS Office 233-7 (415) 604-6558 Moffett Field, CA 94035 / Disclaimer: It would be inappropriate to assume views I express \ \ are those of anyone directly or indirectly employing my services / ------------------------------ From: mjm@wru.org (Michael Masterson) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 01:21:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: jet propulsion questions... I've just finished reading Crickmore's latest, and am digesting the pilots manual for the SR-71... I've got a couple of questions that I haven't been able to figure out answers for... 1) what the HELL is KEAS? I know what it stands for, but that doesn't tell me anything... the KEAS meter only goes to something like 599 on the Habu... yet she flies much faster than 599 knots... The manual refers to KEAS hold mode in the autopilot ranging from 500KEAS and mach 2.1 to 380KEAS and 3.3 Mach... implying that there's little, if ANY correlation between KEAS and the actual speed that the plane moves across the world... secondly, what is a compressor stall? I know what one is in general, and I know how to recover from one *Grins* but don't know what, technically, one is... Naturally, the manual is written for someone that already has a firm knowledge of all these things... cheers. - -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Michael Masterson mjm@wru.org - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAy76tO8AAAEEANjurMDOdSXX58GTY/u5VMbI/TNXY0BX/qw6flunyvDfJy7y OEq4SaAV0uqb83ONuslOuKz4BmMUTqF/kmC2I6NSYB4/8xYR22fv2dVN0tZgUN7H pn+aj6SV5MxQ+aHCfx+ekh+S8dxhA7jPhExy67fTGDHhuwNpUvfPEuc6RPzhAAUR tB9NaWNoYWVsIE1hc3RlcnNvbiA8bWptQHdydS5vcmc+ =fxM1 - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------ From: "Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund" Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 17:55:53 +0100 Subject: Re: Air and Space Magazine >>>>> "BaDge" == BaDge writes: BaDge> Especially the young mission specialist currently being colorfully splashed BaDge> on CNN! BaDge> Go Eileen Collins - Astronaut/SpaceShuttle Pilot! BaDge> Here is a pointer to her bio if you are interested, it's fascinating. BaDge> Yeah, she's already married. :-) Isn't that a requirement for astronauts ?? An old american misconception that being married is a guarantee for stability ?? ------------------------------ From: "Joseph F. Donoghue" Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 12:18:00 EST Subject: Aerofax Skunk Works Book Sorry, if Aerofax has gone under. I'll miss Jay's products. I've bought books on planes I wasn't that interested in just because they were published by Jay Miller. I hope he can find a way to keep publishing. Lockheed Employees Recreation Club still lists the Skunkworks 50 year book. 1011 Lockheed Way Palmdale, Ca', 93599 (805)572-2201 fax (805)572-2747 Joe Donoghue ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:45:24 -0800 Subject: Triangles? - Possibly a source of technical information I just got the latest copy of the AIAA publications catalog. Regarding the hovering triangle threads on the list of late, and the theories regarding Lighter Than Air (LTA) techniques possibly being used to implement such vehicles, there looks like there might be some technical information on this subject. The following are advertised as 1/2 price specials: 10th Lighter-Than-Air Systems Conference, Sept 14-16, 1993 1993, 104pp, Conference proceeding AIAA Members $45.00 List price $60.00 Order #: CP938 (999) It says the following about the 1993 LTA Systems proceeding: Twenty-one papers give the latest developments on topics such as airship applications for national defense, air vehicle characteristics, aerostat technology, propulsion systems technology, LTA developments and scientific applications, commercial support services and systems, airship design, and airship operations. Also available: 9th Lighter-Than-Air Systems Conference 1991, Conference proceeding AIAA Members $37.00 List price $50.00 Order #: CP913 (999) 7th Lighter-Than-Air Systems Conference 1987, Conference proceeding AIAA Members $25.00 List price $37.00 Order #: CP879 (999) American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Publications Customer Service Waldorf, Maryland 301-645-5643 (Dept. 415) 1-800-682-2422 If anybody already has one or more of the above LTA proceedings, perhaps they could let us all know how good they are. Larry ------------------------------ From: "Joseph F. Donoghue" Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 12:18:00 EST Subject: Aerofax Skunk Works Book Sorry, if Aerofax has gone under. I'll miss Jay's products. I've bought books on planes I wasn't that interested in just because they were published by Jay Miller. I hope he can find a way to keep publishing. Lockheed Employees Recreation Club still lists the Skunkworks 50 year book. 1011 Lockheed Way Palmdale, Ca', 93599 (805)572-2201 fax (805)572-2747 Joe Donoghue ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:45:24 -0800 Subject: Triangles? - Possibly a source of technical information I just got the latest copy of the AIAA publications catalog. Regarding the hovering triangle threads on the list of late, and the theories regarding Lighter Than Air (LTA) techniques possibly being used to implement such vehicles, there looks like there might be some technical information on this subject. The following are advertised as 1/2 price specials: 10th Lighter-Than-Air Systems Conference, Sept 14-16, 1993 1993, 104pp, Conference proceeding AIAA Members $45.00 List price $60.00 Order #: CP938 (999) It says the following about the 1993 LTA Systems proceeding: Twenty-one papers give the latest developments on topics such as airship applications for national defense, air vehicle characteristics, aerostat technology, propulsion systems technology, LTA developments and scientific applications, commercial support services and systems, airship design, and airship operations. Also available: 9th Lighter-Than-Air Systems Conference 1991, Conference proceeding AIAA Members $37.00 List price $50.00 Order #: CP913 (999) 7th Lighter-Than-Air Systems Conference 1987, Conference proceeding AIAA Members $25.00 List price $37.00 Order #: CP879 (999) American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Publications Customer Service Waldorf, Maryland 301-645-5643 (Dept. 415) 1-800-682-2422 If anybody already has one or more of the above LTA proceedings, perhaps they could let us all know how good they are. Larry ------------------------------ From: rh@craycos.com (Robert Herndon) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 13:02:10 MST Subject: KEAS & compressor stall > 1) what the HELL is KEAS? I know what it stands for, but that doesn't > tell me anything... the KEAS meter only goes to something like 599 on > the Habu... yet she flies much faster than 599 knots... KEAS = knots equivalent airspeed. This is more or less 'indicated airspeed' or 'ram air speed', and isn't compensated for air density. (It may be compensated for temperature and compressibility?) This is the speed at sea level that corresponds to the same dynamic pressure as the actual true speed/density. (This corresponds well to the aerodynamic loads on an airframe, excepting those due to shock effects, I believe.) From somewhere in the bowels of saved mail: EAS = TAS*sqrt(rho/rhosl) Where: rhosl is the standard sea level air density rho is the ambient airdensity I've seen red-line for the blackbird expressed in KEAS; if I recall right, it was around 450 KEAS. (I.e., the blackbird cannot fly mach 1 on the deck.) > secondly, what is a compressor stall? I know what one is in general, > and I know how to recover from one *Grins* but don't know what, > technically, one is... Compressor stall is just what it sounds like. The turbine blades, usually the first row, stall. This most often occurs when something blocks or impedes the flow of air into the inlet. Corrections welcome. Robert Herndon ------------------------------ From: "E.S. Schouten" Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 23:34:02 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #177 Hi John, > and maintenace* by the RAF. Unfortunately I did not get all of the callsign > of the USAF 'plane only that it was Reach 200??? which ids a transporter of > some kind. Is Macrahanish being prepared for SR-71 flights I wonder? REACH is a normal callsign for all the Air Mobility Command transport planes (C-5s,C-141s etc). It is not that strange that a USAF plane lands at Macrahanish.I've twice heard a Special Operations HC-130 wich had RAF Macrahanish as a destination. > Also after the crash of the RAF Chinook on the Isle of Mull last year which > killed several high-ranking Intelligence and security officers involved in > Northern Ireland Machrahanish was activated within minutes to provide I thought that the Chinook was carrying anti-terrorist specialists and Intell officers.And that they were involved with IRA activities and not "AURORA". Greetings , Eric Greetings from Wijk bij Duurstede ,The Netherlands Eric Sugianto Schouten * Email : E.S.Schouten@cso.nl * ------------------------------ From: nwoods@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Woods) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 22:40 GMT Subject: 3 questions In-Reply-To: <199502071547.HAA04206@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> Hello everyone, This is my first posting to skunk-works, so I'm hoping this gets through ok. I've been lurking here for a while and I think it's about time I showed my ignorance by asking some fairly basic questions. So, here goes :- 1) What is the presumed role for the TR3A ? (i.e spyplane, stealth fighter etc) 2) Ditto the X-31 3) The F117 and B-2 supposedly have very low radar signatures - I seem to recall comments such as 'has the signature of a .22 bullet or a small bird'. Assuming this is right, why should this make them totally invisible to radar systems?. How many 'small birds' fly at 500+mph in straight(ish) lines ?. Is it possible to build a radar with the capability to look for very low signatures moving at high speeds and flag them as possible stealths ? Thanks in anticipiation Nick Woods nwoods@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ From: Illya Kuryakin Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 17:55:39 -0800 Subject: Aerofax I spoke to Jay about a month ago when I heard his 800 number had been disconnected. He assured me that only the retail part of Aerofax was closing. Remember that Jay's been publishing far longer than he's been retailing. The sad truth was they were going broke on the retail end. Otherwise, he's fine and still publishing. Rick kuryakin@arn.net kuryakin@halcyon.com ps Mary's the only person that has _ever_ gotten me to blush over the net. :} Heh. Ahh... love over the net. :) (Kidding, really. I'm married, too. ;) ------------------------------ From: murr rhame Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 22:41:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Blackbird humor on usenet I stumbled across this on rec.aviation.military. Could not resist. ;-) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: murr@vnet.net Newgroups: rec.aviation.military Subject: Re: Plane shoots itself down mholcomb@BIX.com (marty Holcomb) writes: >But what is the top altitude for the missles? How long can they chase the >SR-71? You are also making the assumption that the top speed is only Mach 3 >or a little higher. Of the above listed missles how many can fly for a few >hours at the top speed? I must have missed something here. Why would you want a missile that can chase a plane for hours? Once the missile overtakes the plane the chase is over. They don't have to follow you home. - -- murr rhame /\/\ |_| |~ |~ murr@vnet.net Show-Fire entertainment pyrotechnics mailing list. ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 02:51:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: AW&ST February 6, 1995 (long) If someone from AW&ST is reading this, please excuse excessive quoting, but keep in mind, this is for non-profit and educational purpose only -- and actually some sort of free advertisement too. :) The front page shows an artists impression of a single-seat stealth helicopter and the title: "LIFTING THE CURTAIN ON THE MILITARY'S BLACK WORLD" The cover story consists of 4 articles: "U.S. BLACK PROGRAMS STRESS LEAN PROJECTS", pages 18-21, by David A. Fulghum and John D. Morrocco, Washington; and William B. Scott, Colorado Springs "LONG-RANGE STRIKE NEEDS DRIVE BLACK PROGRAMS", pages 20-22, by David A. Fulghum, Washington "DARA SOUGHT STEALTHY ROTORCRAFT", page 23, by staff, no name given "JAST TO BE SINGLE SEAT/ENGINE DESIGN", pages 22-23, by John D. Morrocco, Washington First Article: ============== "Standoff weapons dominate U.S. military black program development, but fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters continue to draw Pentagon investments The U.S. military currently is pursuing twelve significant black aviation projects, according to high-ranking Pentagon officials. AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY has confirmed that these classified projects include two fixed-wing aircraft prototypes, two rotary wing projects and eight weapons programs. There are believed to be more, but some may not fall into traditional "development" categories, and several may be proof-of-concept vehicles or production prototypes." [The next two paragraphs are about budget and the likelyhood that a new stealth aircraft program is about 10-15 years away. -- Andreas] " Defense and industry officials confirm there are at least two U.S. and one British classified, fixed-wing aircraft prototyping programs underway. Others are believed to exist, based partially on numerous in-flight and on-ramp sightings over the last few years, but these have not been verified. "There are studies and cardboard [mock-up] aircraft, but no follow-ons to the F-117 or F-22 have flown yet, although at some point we will [fly some]," a senior U.S. defense official said. When they do appear, however, it will be obvious that current predictions of "long range and unusual weapons capabilities are vastly overstated," he said. The two U.S. fixed-wing projects were described as fighter-attack-type aircraft with moderate range and payload. Their chances of going into production currently are slim because they have yet to show promise of "significant improvement over the F-117 or F-22," the senior defense official said. "We're just not there yet."" [The next paragraph talks about employing standoff (and small amounts of active) jamming to mask the aircrafts signature into the background noise -- Andreas] " "It will take another generation of aircraft before the major technological hurdles are cleared that will make building a stealth follow-on worthwhile," he said." [That could mean, that the TR-3A is the same (old) generation of stealth design as the F-117A, and would probably not fall under the category of new black programs or new stealth aircraft -- Andreas] " "The British have designed a manned aircraft with a low RCS from the frontal aspect, but I don't think they have anything flying," the first senior U.S. defense official said. "It is easier [and cheaper] to treat the nose, the frontal hemisphere, than it is the aft. That is how most of your engagements are flown -- nose to nose."" [Maybe that's the one that crashed at Boscombe Down? -- Andreas] " In addition, the U.S. military has been working for years on at least two helicopter projects. The more recent is development of a light, very quiet helicopter with a mast-mounted sight. An older, long-term project is aimed at trying to reduce the radar signature of helicopter rotors. "The helicopter work going on at the Nellis [AFB, Nev.] ranges is not Air Force," a third senior U.S. defense official said. "They are treating blades and jet engines to reduce the radar reflectivity. They are working on RAM [...] for the blades and a redesign of the blade tips to reroute the radar signals."" [The next seven paragraphs describe the small helicopter, but more about the helicopter in the third article -- Andreas] " Many of the Defense Dept.'s classified projects appear to be associated both with improved stealth and precision-strike capabilities. The resulting requirements for space, security and radar measurements by both U.S. and foreign equipment ensure that new models or prototypes of aircraft and weapons are flown or tested at one or more facilities." [RCS and other radar test facilities listed are: - Nellis Test Range, north of Las Vegas, Nev.; - Northrop Grumman's Tejon Test Range, west of Edwards AFB, Calif.; - a McDonnell Douglas facility, south of Edwards; - Lockheed's Helendale, Calif., RCS range near Barstow, Calif.; - RATSCAT (Radar Target Scatter) facility at Holloman AFB, N.M.; - RAMS (RATSCAT Advanced Measurement System) facility, also at Holloman AFB; photos of RAMS and RATSCAT (with F-117) are included - and a not specified facility in the U.K.] " Most of the reputed sightings of aircraft in flight, U.S. defense officials associate with unmanned aerial vehicle prototypes or proof-of-principle designs for the Tier 2, 2-, 3- and now-canceled Tier 3 reconnaissance programs; the stealthy Tri-Service Standoff Attack Missile (TSSAM), and stealthy helicopter programs. Moreover, there are projects that do not involve airframe development. A Pentagon Advanced Concept Technology Demonstrator (ACTD)project is flying a manned aircraft at the classified Groom Lake, Nev., facility. A project, until recently named "Ivy," involves an aircraft coating that changes hues and brightness when subjected to an electrical charge." [Ok, here we go again: ACTD or "Senior Citizen" (not 'fixed-wing', not 'rotorcraft', not 'reconnaissance drone') manned LTA (what else is left?), maybe incorporating the "Ivy" coating to become 'invisible'? -- Andreas] [The next paragraph says that the Pentagon is more concerned with RAM than with active camouflage, and the following article blames all the 'UFO' sightings on flying scale models and RCS mock-ups -- Andreas] " Defense Dept. and industry officials confirm that there are classified aircraft on the large, restricted Nellis ranges, but they make that assertion with a number of caveats. "The aircraft being tested are either not manned, not flying or not Air Force," the third official said. "There are one-half and three-quarter scale mockup aircraft that have been loaded in Air Force aircraft and transported that people may have seen." HOWEVER, that leaves open the possibility that some are aircraft that belong to the U.S. Navy, Central Intelligence Agency, Advanced Research Projects Agency or other organizations with black budgets. Aerospace companies also have their own closely guarded research projects. "There were numerous private [companies] designing aircraft and they may have flown something," he said." [The article contains artists impressions of the Loral Tier 2+ flying wing concept study, the Lockheed/Boeing Tier 3- (which looks 'different' :)) and again of the little stealth helicopter -- Andreas] Second Article: =============== [It mainly talks about stealthy and precision (GPS) guided weapons, to substitute or accompany the more or less stealthy aircraft. It also mentions HPW (High Power Microwave) and Carbon-fiber warheads to take out electrical grids, antennas and C3I installations. It ends with the description of a stealthy first strike -- Andreas] " Stealth advocates draw a scenario in which waves of the longest-range cruise missiles would strike first, particularly against low-frequency radars that can glimpse stealthy aircraft, a Pentagon warplanner said. Then, Tomahawks with carbon-fiber warheads would strike antenna arrays and electrical grids to knock out a city's electricity and thus any ambient light that might reveal an F-117 or B-2 to a foe. Next, stealthy aircraft would strike hardened command and control structures with large, penetrating bombs. Finally, partially stealthy aircraft would approach within standoff weapon distance of the target, shielded by flights of decoys and standoff jamming. The new generation of classified, high-precision, mid-range standoff weapons would ignore any GPS jamming to finish destroying high-density surface-to-air missile threats and key strategic targets." [The article also includes two photos of the canceled A-12 Avenger II mock-up, a frontal view and a side/top view -- Andreas] Third Article: ============== [This article describes the two stealth helicopter projects from the mid-80s, mentioned earlier -- Andreas] " The larger of the two was a secret version of the NASA/DARPA/Sikorsky X-Wing Rotor Systems Research Aircraft (RSRA), and it is not clear if a prototype ever flew. The unclassified RSRA X-Wing program was canceled in 1988 after several flights in only its fixed-wing mode [...]. However, DARPA's secret version of the X-Wing -- also run by Sikorsky -- was a larger program than its unclassified cousin, according to sources familiar with both programs." [It describes the three main stealth technologies employed as: - the stopped X-Wing (at 45-deg.) reduced frontal radar reflection and enables fast flight without the tell-tale Doppler signature of a helicopter; - NOTAR-like -- but more conventional -- thrusters in the tail booms tip for torque control; - convertible engines (modified TF34), able to switch between turboshaft and turbofan modes; It concludes with some deception practice -- Andreas] " The RSRA X-Wing program provided an open method to develop the crucial X-wing technology, and provided cover for the broad nature of the classified effort. The white program could order parts for the black program, and vendors would be none the wiser." [The description of the other, smaller helicopter is combined from the first and the third article -- Andreas] " THE SMALL ROTORCRAFT is a McDonnell Douglas Helicopter project conducted with the renamed Advanced Research Projects Agency. Configuration details are sketchy, and it is not known if it uses the McDonnell Douglas no-tail-rotor (Notar) technology. More than one of the McDonnell Douglas craft may have been built, and flights are conducted in the restricted airspace of the Nellis AFB range. Tests include flying against radar sites to measure the rotorcraft's signature. The program is considered "extremely black," and the aircraft fly at night or out of sight of uncleared personnel during the day. Flights are scheduled to avoid spy satellite coverage." [In the first article, the aircraft is described as a single-seat, "twin-turbine-powered helicopter", "said to have four rigid, slightly scimitar-shaped rotor blades and a four-port, no-tail-rotor (NOTAR) boom". The main rotor blades are supposed to have very little droop when the aircraft is sitting at the ramp. "The rotor hub is claimed [...] to be configured so that the main rotor-disk diameter can be reduced several feet by sweeping the blades, ostensibly to reduce noise and allow higher- speed forward flight. A mast-mounted electro-optical sight extends above the main rotor hub." It "has an overall length of about 33 ft. Short stub wings can carry external weapons, augmenting a single-barrel gun mounted on the aircraft's belly and may aerodynamically unload the main rotor during high-speed flight." -- Andreas] " Senior defense officials contend that while progress has been made with reducing the noise signature of helicopters, major RCS improvements on the main rotor and hub have proved elusive." [This quiet helicopter, which is supposed to have flown for years, is believed to utilize new RAH-66A Comanche technology improvements. The (third) article also mentions that Bell apparently has not developed a stealthy helicopter design, mentioning that Bell's usual high tail rotor designs are not very stealthy -- Andreas] Fourth Article: =============== [This article describes the latest concepts for JAST, which will be a single-engine, single-seat (with growth capability) aircraft, with several more or less stealthy versions, with CTOL and STOVL capabilities. Engines in questions are the F119-PW and maybe the YF120-GE. It will have a small internal weapons capability, and the less stealthy versions use external loads. It might be possible to eliminate most of the vertical stabilizers, incorporating vectored thrust, but the (non-)stealthyness of axisymmetrical thrust-vectoring nozzles may proof problematic -- Andreas] " OVERALL, CONTRACTORS are looking at graduated levels of signature reduction for each version of the baseline aircraft. "You are going to see a range of signatures as a function of the application of the airplane," Muellner [Maj. Gen. George Muellner, head of the JAST program -- Andreas] said. The Navy's desire for a first-day survivable aircraft will require a very low observable [VLO -- Andreas] signature as compared to that for an Air Force F-16 replacement, for example. For Marine Corps close air support, infrared signature control is more critical than radar signature." - -- Andreas PS: This text may contain more errors than usual, but it is late, and Kathryn, who usually proof reads longer articles, is sound asleep. :) - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software 313 West Court St. #305 schnars@umcc.ais.org Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 - --- --- ------------------------------ From: jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk (John Burtenshaw) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 09:32:53 +0000 Subject: Re: 3 questions Nick Woods wrote:, > >This is my first posting to skunk-works, so I'm hoping this gets >through ok. I've been lurking here for a while and I think it's about >time I showed my ignorance by asking some fairly basic questions. > >So, here goes :- > >1) What is the presumed role for the TR3A ? (i.e spyplane, If it exists it would be a *spyplane* similar in role to the TR-1A e.g. Tactical Recon (TR) not Strategic Recon like the Blackbird was/is used for, although the dividing line can get blurred. >2) Ditto the X-31 The X-31 is a joint US/German fighter plane in the mould of the Eurofighter. > >3) The F117 and B-2 supposedly have very low radar signatures - I seem >to recall comments such as 'has the signature of a .22 bullet or a >small bird'. Assuming this is right, why should this make them >totally invisible to radar systems?. How many 'small birds' fly >at 500+mph in straight(ish) lines ?. Is it possible to build a radar >with the capability to look for very low signatures moving at high >speeds and flag them as possible stealths ? I've read in a recent Flight International that a former Eastern Bloc country has began further development of a radar system to detect Stealth aircraft and when/if it is completed will sell it on the open arms market. I cannot remember too many details but it may be worth while checking out your local library for back issues. By the way during the Gulf War Royal Navy ships could *see* the F-117A on their Marconi radars. The report appeared once in the Guardian newspaper but was never seen again. I guess the folks at the Ministry of Defence sat on it with a *D* Notice. Cheers John ============================================================================= John Burtenshaw BOURNEMOUTH System Administrator, The Computer Centre UNIVERSITY - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -Postal Address: Talbot Campus, Fern Barrow, POOLE, Dorset, BH12 5BB Internet: jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk Phone: 01202 595089 Fax: 01202 513293 Packet Radio: G1HOK @ GB7BNM.#45.GBR.EU AMPRnet: G1HOK.ampr.org. [44.131.17.82] Compuserve: 10033,3113 ============================================================================= ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #200 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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