From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #233 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 6 April 1995 Volume 05 : Number 233 In this issue: Aurora, the continuing saga... Re: electrostatic filed and stealth Re: electrostatic filed and stealth Aurora Commercial Re: Aurora Commercial [none] test Supersonic B-2 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: adrian mann Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 03:09:18 -0700 Subject: Aurora, the continuing saga... Hi folks, I've been lurking here for a while and thought I'd add what I "know" to the general confusion(!) Part 1 A while ago, I worked for the Civil Aviation Authority in England, and was on a team with a number of engineers and ATCO's... One told me astory of a time when he was stationed at RAF Macrahanish, a reported seeing and I quote "a large aircraft, covered in tarpaulin, being pushed back into a hangar, surrounded by Military Police..." This guy knows nothing about "black" projects, but as soon as I knew which base he'd been at, I started asking him questions. He described the shape as very long and pointed, but only saw the nose section. Part 2 I used to work with an aerospace consultant some years back, who'd worked on avionics for F117 and B2, so I mentioned Aurora. Her immediate response was "where did you hear that name?". She wouldn't say anything more apart from "Even if it exists, which it doesn't, I couldn't tell you anything about it. I'm convinced "it" exists... Adrian Mann 8-) Adrian Mann ------------------------------ From: "Thomas A. Gauldin" Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: electrostatic filed and stealth I am in no position to question the authenticity of the post about antigravity and the B-2 bomber. However, it strikes me as odd that any such electrostatic field, when used to modify the shock wave OR induce antigravity, wouldn't counteract some of the airplane's stealth characteristics. The supposed benefits: 1) antigravity? 2) shock wave modification or elimination 3) reduced aerodynamic drag 4) exhaust cooling could all be offset by the large "neon-sign-in-the-sky" that would probably be an offshoot of such high ionizing voltages. Rather than use radar to spot the bomber, the enemy would probably use an old AM radio. :^) Any comments? Thomas A. Gauldin Here's to the land of the longleaf pine, Raleigh, NC The summerland where the sun doth shine, BSRB45A on Prodigy Where the weak grow strong and the strong grow great, FAX (919) 676-1404 Here's to Downhome, the Old North State. ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:35:29 -0700 Subject: Re: electrostatic filed and stealth Thomas A. Gauldin writes: >I am in no position to question the authenticity of the post about >antigravity and the B-2 bomber. You've got to be kidding! Antigravity? Just read a physics book on forces or grab copies of some of Feynman's lectures on this. The AW&ST piece referenced by Mr. LaViolette, actually stated that the electric field was to ENHANCE the stealth characteristics of the B-2. Get the magazine and look it up. Who knows if it is true. Perhaps there are materials with such properties? I don't know. Northrop did explore electric fields however back in the late 60's and early 70's to modify shock wave properties. I published the bib. in case you wanted to check it out for yourself. > However, it strikes me as odd that any >such electrostatic field, when used to modify the shock wave OR induce >antigravity, wouldn't counteract some of the airplane's stealth >characteristics. Who said anything about stealth? What about sonic booms for supersonic commercial aircraft? Remember this was the late 60's and early 70's. The fact that the shock can be modified (as one would think it should be when no longer having to rely on the speed of sound to do the job) via a field, is interesting enough. Assuming the power required to do the job made it practical, there are always tradeoffs. For example, suppose that due to shock wave control, higher Mach numbers were attainable, that made the aircraft invincible. Who cares if it was detected. Or perhaps it looked like a UFO and as you all know, UFO's can't exist, so there really was no contact on that radar, because radar has the problem of anomolous propogation, and that must have been anomolous propogation. As far as RF or EM effects of such a vehicle, the same thing applies. UFOs have such side effects, and since UFO's don't exist, the bogey doesn't exist and didn't really happen. Its simple! This is the current approach, why not use it! Future research on different methods to accomplish warning the air faster than the speed of sound in the medium, where the emitted radiation is more stealthy, would be an interesting avenue to pursue. Also, what impact does the configuration of the aircraft have on the effect? Perhaps, for the altitude to be operated at, complete attenuation of the shock isn't necessary to achieve the required sonic footprint. There are lots of possibilities. It's interesting to know this exists and has been tried with some success. Northrop didn't seem to pursue it at the time, as I said. So you actually would have preferred to not even hear about this? There is a fairly high resistance to new approaches, that exists in the world. You have to remember that the blackbirds themselves were once considered near impossible. And other aerospace firms failed in similar earlier attempts, for example, the XF-103 Thunderwarrior. Larry ------------------------------ From: Tom Ambrose Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 12:52:42 PDT Subject: Aurora Commercial I don't know if any of you have seen this yet, but Chrysler has a commercial for their Aurora that's kind of funny. Its filled with all kinds of shots of the car, etc. and the announcer is mentioning different specs, when he says, "...and its been clocked at 3500MPH...ooops, that's their's." It then cuts to a long distance shot of a plane leaving a contrail. I found it amusing. - -tom -------------------------------------------------------------- | Thomas P. Ambrose Gordian, Inc., Santa Ana Heights, CA | | tom@gordian.com phone: 714-850-0205 fax: 714-850-0533 | \____________________________________________________________/ | | | "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes | \ a bit longer." -- Henry Kissinger / \------------------------------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ From: tetzlaff.3@osu.edu (Roger Alan Tetzlaff) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:20:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Aurora Commercial >I don't know if any of you have seen this yet, but Chrysler has a >commercial for their Aurora that's kind of funny. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Aurora is manufactured by OLDSMOBILE, which is a General Motors subdivision, NOT Chrysler :) I guess I'm just a stickler for details... - -Roger - - * * * Roger Alan Tetzlaff - tetzlaff.3@osu.edu / fg195@po.cwru.edu * * * - ============================================================================= RRRRRRRR OOOOOOOO XXX XXX EEEEEEEEEE TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT EEEEEEEEEE RRRRRRRRR OOOOOOOOOO XXX XXX EEEEEEEEEE TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT EEEEEEEEEE RRR RRR OOO OOO XXX XXX EEE TTT TTT EEE RRR RRR OOO OOO XXX XXX EEE TTT TTT EEE RRRRRRRR OOO OOO XXXXX EEEEEEE TTT TTT EEEEEEE RRRRRRR OOO OOO XXXXX EEEEEEE TTT TTT EEEEEEE RRR RRR OOO OOO XXX XXX EEE TTT TTT EEE RRR RRR OOOOOOOOOO XXX XXX EEEEEEEEEE TTT TTT EEEEEEEEEE RRR RRR OOOOOOOO XXX XXX EEEEEEEEEE TTT TTT EEEEEEEEEE ============================================================================= The Best Damn Band in the Land... Per Gessle & Marie Fredriksson of Sweden +++++++++ Producing quality music across the globe since 1986... +++++++++ __CRASH! BOOM! BANG! is now in stores across the planet... Check it out!__ Try the official ROXETTE WWW page- http://www.ccsf.caltech.edu/~dmz/roxette/ ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [none] Subject: Skunk Works Library Because some people ask me about my SR-71 books and because it is a little slow right now anyway, here is a little Skunk Works Literature List, with some remarks of my own. Format: Number: "Nu" - Sequential Number Title: "Ti" - Title of the book Subtitle: "Su" - Subtitles, if any Volume: "Vo" - Volume Number / Year, if multi-volume Author: "Au" - Author and Co-Authors Editor: "Ed" - Editors, if any (instead of Authors) Publisher: "Pu" - Publisher (and location) Year: "Yr" - Year of publication Series: "Se" - Series name and number, if any ISBN: "Is" - ISBN number, if any Cost: "Co" - Price (in US$ or English Pound (L)), if available Remarks: "Re" - Availability, my personal opinion, etc. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dragon Lady Books: ================== Nu - B101 Ti - Dragon Lady Su - The History of the U-2 Spyplane Au - Chris Pocock Pu - Airlife Publishing Ltd., England Yr - 1989 Is - 0-906393-84-1 Co - $18,95 Re - Still the best U-2 book I have Nu - B102 Ti - Lockheed U-2 Au - Jay Miller Pu - Aerofax Inc., Austin, TX Yr - 1983 Se - AeroGraph 3 Is - 0-942548-04-3 (Softcover) Is - 0-942548-05-1 (Hardcover) Re - Best U-2 book, concerning photos Nu - B103 Ti - Lockheed U-2R/TR-1 Au - Jay Miller, Chris Pocock Pu - Aerofax Inc., Arlington, TX Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Pu - Midland Counties Publications, England Yr - 1988 Se - Aerofax Minigraph 28 Is - 0-942548-43-4 Re - Best U-2R/TR-1 book, concerning photos Nu - B104 Ti - U-2 Spyplane in action Au - Larry Davis Pu - Squadron Signal Publications, Carrollton, TX Se - Aircraft No. 86 / 1086 Is - 0-897447-202-0 Co - $8,95 Nu - B105 Ti - Recce Tech Su - The Phantom and the Dragon Lady Au - Paul F. Crickmore Pu - Osprey Publishing Ltd., London, England Yr - 1989 Is - 0-85045-908-7 Re - Many high quality photos (split between RF-4C and U-2) Nu - N101 Ti - The Black Watch Au - Gann Re - Fiction (I don't have it) Blackbird Books: ================ Nu - B201 Ti - Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird Au - Paul F. Crickmore Pu - Osprey Publishing Ltd., London, England Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Yr - 1986, 1987 Is - 0-85045-653-3 Re - Very good! (but out of print) Nu - B202 Ti - Lockheed SR-71 Su - The Secret Missions Exposed Au - Paul F. Crickmore Pu - Osprey Publishing Ltd., London, England Yr - 1993 Is - 0-85532-313-3 Co - $29,95 Re - Very good, too Nu - B203 Ti - SR-71 Blackbird in action Au - Lou Drendel Pu - Squadron Signal Publications, Carrollton, TX Se - Aircraft No. 55 / 1055 Is - 0-897447-136-9 Co - $8,95 Nu - B204 Ti - Lockheed SR-71 Su - (A-12 / Y-12 / D-21) Au - Jay Miller Pu - Aerofax Inc, Austin, TX Pu - Midland Counties Publications, England Yr - 1983 Se - Aerofax Minigraph 1 Is - none Re - One of my oldest :) Nu - B205 Ti - SR-71 Blackbird Su - Lockheed's Mach 3 Hot Shot Au - Paul F. Crickmore Pu - Osprey Publishing Ltd., London, England Yr - 1987 Is - 0-85045-794-7 Re - Many high quality photos Nu - B206 Ti - SR-71 Su - Inside Lockheed's Blackbird Au - Michael O'Leary, Eric Schulzinger Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Yr - 1991 Is - 0-87938-541-3 Co - $19,95 Re - Many high quality photos Nu - T201 Ti - The Oxcart Story Au - "Thomas P. McIninch" / CIA Pu - probably by CIA Co - free on the Internet Nu - N201 Ti - Sled Driver Su - Flying The World's Fastest Jet Au - Brian Shul Co - $38,00 Re - (I don't have it yet) Nu - N202 Ti - The Untouchables Su - Mission Accomplished Au - Brian Shul, Walter Watson, Jr. Co - $39,95 Re - (I don't have it yet) Nu - N203 Ti - SR-71 Pilot's Manual Su - The Official US Air Force SR-71A Flight Manual Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Co - $99.95 Re - (I don't have it yet) Nighthawk Books: ================ Nu - B301 Ti - Lockheed F-117A Su - Operation and Development of the Stealth Fighter Au - Bill Sweetman, James Goodall Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Pu - Haynes Publishing Group, Sparkford, England Yr - 1990 Is - 0-85429-888-6 Co - $9,95 (on sale for $3,98) Re - First (original) F-117 reference (only with Have Blue patch) Nu - B302 Ti - The F-117A Stealth Fighter Au - Steve Pace Pu - TAB/AERO Books, USA Yr - 1992 Is - 0-8306-2795-2 (Paperback) Co - $10,95 Nu - B303 Ti - Team Stealth F-117 Au - Robert Shelton, Jr. Pu - Speciality Press, USA Yr - 1993 Is - 0-933424-45-0 Co - $18,95 Re - Many good photos (by Dandy Jolly) Nu - B304 Ti - Lockheed F-117 Stealth Fighter Su - Desert Storm's Most Secret Airplane Revealed! Au - Jay Miller Pu - Aerofax Inc, Austin, TX Pu - Midland Counties Publications, England Yr - 1991 Se - Aerofax Extra (1) Is - 0-933424-55-8 Co - $9,95 Nu - B305 Ti - F-117 Stealth in action Au - Jim Goodall Pu - Squadron Signal Publications, Carrollton, TX Yr - 1991 Se - Aircraft No. 115 / 1115 Is - 0-89747-259-4 Co - $8,95 Skunk Works Books (more than 1 type): ===================================== Nu - B401 Ti - Lockheed's Skunk Works Su - The First Fifty Years - The Official History... Au - Jay Miller Pu - Aerofax Inc., Arlington, TX Pu - Midland Publishing Ltd., England Yr - 1993 Is - 0-942548-56-6 Co - $29,95 Re - Best Skunk-Works book so far - very good pictures, text, etc. Nu - B402 Ti - Lockheed Skunk Works Au - Steve Pace Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Yr - 1992 Is - 0-87938-632-0 Co - $24.95 Re - Not so good, old pictures, some errors Nu - B403 Ti - Lockheed Aircraft since 1913 Au - Rene J. Francillon Pu - Putnam Pu - Naval Institute Press Yr - 1982, 1987 Is - 0-87021-897-2 Re - I have both editions Nu - B501 Ti - Kelly Su - More Than My Share of It All Au - Clarence L. "Kelly" Johnson, Maggie Smith Pu - Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington, DC Yr - 1985, 1989 Is - 0-87474-564-0 Is - 0-87474-491-1 (Paperback) Re - Very good autobiography Nu - B502 Ti - Skunk Works Su - A Personal Memoir of My Years at Lockheed Au - Ben R. Rich, Leo Janos Pu - Little, Brown and Company Yr - 1994 Is - 0-316-74330-5 Co - $24.95 Re - Very good autobiography Nu - B503 Ti - Test Pilots Su - The Frontiersmen of Flight Au - Richard P. Hallion Pu - Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington, DC Yr - 1981, 1988 Is - 0-87474-549-7 (Paperback) Re - Includs stories about U-2, 'A-11', and SR-71 Nu - B404 Ti - Black Magic Su - America's Spyplanes: SR-71 and U-2 Au - Michael O'Leary, Eric Schulzinger Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Yr - 1989 Is - 0-87938-358-5 Re - Many high quality photos Nu - B405 Ti - Stealth aircraft Su - Secrets of Future Airpower Au - Bill Sweetman Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Yr - 1986 Is - 0-87938-208-2 (Softcover) Co - $9.95 (on sale for $5,98)) Re - Printed before any F-117 or B-2 pictures were released Nu - B406 Ti - Spyplane Su - The Secret World of Aerial Intelligence-Gathering Au - David Donald Pu - Aerospace Publishing Ltd., London, England Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Yr - 1987 Is - 0-87938-258-9 Nu - N401 Ti - Aurora Su - The Pentagon's Secret Hypersonic Spyplane Au - Bill Sweetman Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Se - Mil Tech Series Co - $9,95 Re - (I still don't have it) Nu - B601 Ti - The X-Planes Su - X-1 to X-31 Au - Jay Miller Pu - Aerofax Inc., Arlington, TX Pu - Orion Books, New York, NY Pu - Midland Counties Publications, England Yr - 1988 Is - 0-517-56749-0 Re - Yery good book, covers related designs X-7, X-16 and X-27 Nu - B602 Ti - Flying The Frontiers Su - NACA and NASA Experimental Aircraft Au - Arthur Pearcy Pu - Airlife Publishing Ltd., England Pu - Naval Institute Press Yr - 1993 Is - 1-55750-258-7 Re - Best book about NASA aircraft, incl. Blackbirds and Dragon Ladys Nu - N402 Ti - America's Stealth Fighters and Bombers Au - Jim Goodall Co - $19,95 Re - (I don't have it) Nu - N403 Ti - Sky Spies Su - Three Decades Of Airborne Reconnaissance Au - Thornborough Co - $24,95 Re - (I don't have it) Nu - N404 Ti - Stealth Au - Richardson Co - $24,95 Re - (I don't have it) Nu - N405 Ti - Stealth Fighter Pilot Au - Giangreco Co - $14,95 Re - (I don't have it) Nu - N406 Ti - This Is Stealth Su - The F-117A and B-2 in Color Au - Simonsen Co - $29,95 Re - (I don't have it) Nu - N407 Ti - World's Greatest Stealth and Reconnaissance Aircraft Su - The F-117A and B-2 in Color Co - $19,98 Re - (I don't have it) Nu - N408 Ti - Northrop B-2 Stealth Bomber Au - Bill Sweetman Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Se - Mil Tech Series Co - $9,95 Re - (I don't have it) Nu - N409 Ti - Stealth Bomber B-2 Story Au - Scott Co - $18,95 Re - (I don't have it) - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 or gehrs-pahl@buick.flint.umich.edu Tel: (810) 238-8469 or gpahl@cyberspace.org - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Bill Wallace Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 11:15:36 PDT Subject: test this is a test post! regards billwa@microsoft.com ------------------------------ From: Ray.W.Maynard@cdc.com Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 00:48:20 -0500 Subject: Supersonic B-2 I've seen several references to the "supersonic B-2" in this thread lately. I'm somewhat familiar with that aircraft and this is the first I've heard about the B-2 being supersonic. ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #233 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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