From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #300 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 13 June 1995 Volume 05 : Number 300 In this issue: Re: 'black" aircraft speculations Re: UFOs and Skunk Works UFOs and Skunk Works Re: UFOs and Skunk Works Skunk Works - Moving right along... NATO Code Names Re: Skunk Works - Moving right along... Re: Skunk Works and UFOs Re: UFOs and Skunk Works Somebody post something skunky Alaska-North Slope Museum of Flight - Seattle Museum of Flight (Not on the regular tour) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: megazone@world.std.com (MegaZone) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 15:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 'black" aircraft speculations Once upon a time TRADER@cup.portal.com shaped the electrons to say... >* Testing is continuing on the SENIOR CITIZEN (Program Element (PE) 0401316F) >aircraft. I have seen a DoD document that indicates it is an "advanced tactica >airlift aircraft", i.e., a transport, not an "Aurora" as some people have >suggested. I think this aircraft is in the V/STOL category. This brings to mind something I've been wondering about. What ever came of the advanced tactical transport that Rutan's Scaled composites built a 2/3rds scale prototype of a number of years back? It has twin wings, twin booms with engines and tail. Rutan called it Special Mission Utility Transport, but the AF didn't like the acronymn and gave it a different name. Last I read was several years ago, they were testing the proto and it was doing well, then nothing. - -- megazone@world.std.com (508) 752-2164 MegaZone's Waste Of Time Moderator: anime fanfic archive, ftp.std.com /archives/anime-fan-works; rec.arts.anime.stories - Maintainer: Ani Difranco Mailing List - Mail to majordomo@world.std.com with 'subscribe ani-difranco' in the body. ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:20:20 -0700 Subject: Re: UFOs and Skunk Works "All things are possible." ------------------------------ From: Frank Markus Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:17:49 -0400 Subject: UFOs and Skunk Works This mailing list has had a high signal to noise ratio because it has been focused. It is easy to play with words and say that the flying products of secret programs are UFOs. Fine ... they are. But that is not to say that all UFOs are the proper subject of this list. That focus of this mailing list has been -- and should continue to be -- aircraft produced by the Lockheed Skunkworks and other matters related to secret aircraft, their technology and deployment. These are properly limited to aircraft and programs that are known to exist or that are likely to exist. Speculation is fine but it should be limited to speculation concerning real (albeit possibly secret but certainly terrestrial) aircraft that have a nexis to govenmental intelligence gathering. The Internet is huge and getting bigger. Information and speculation on almost any matter of interest is available for the taking. If I had an interest in UFOs, I could pursue it elsewhere on the Net. But I do not want to read it here! I do not want my mailbox clogged with matters of not interest to me. ------------------------------ From: megazone@world.std.com (MegaZone) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: UFOs and Skunk Works Once upon a time Mary Shafer shaped the electrons to say... >I'll leave the list if it turns into a UFO list. Not because I'm >intolerant, but because I'm not interested. I am interested in the Skunk >Works and that's why I'm subscribed. Ditto - I'm interested in terran projects, especially Lockheed. That is why I'm here - if the list goes into lots of in depth UFO speculation and/or Mary leaves, I'm out of here. I don't have time to weed through the junk. - -- megazone@world.std.com (508) 752-2164 MegaZone's Waste Of Time Moderator: anime fanfic archive, ftp.std.com /archives/anime-fan-works; rec.arts.anime.stories - Maintainer: Ani Difranco Mailing List - Mail to majordomo@world.std.com with 'subscribe ani-difranco' in the body. ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Skunk Works - Moving right along... One of the cutting edge areas of development in aviation right now is called LFC, or laminar air flow control. Many here have caught the recent Air & Space, where it details this, but for those who haven't this intriguing sidebar: `Small but =Very= Smart "Smart" is an engineering buzzword for the '90s: there are smart bombs, smart TVs, and, if a group of University of California at Los Angeles and Cal Tech researchers can work it out, smart wings. These scientists and engineers have developed a "microelectromechanical system" that, instant by nano-instant, alters the airflow over a wing to maintain laminar flow. Whenever microscopic sensors detect the changes in airflow that foretell an incipient burble, minute tabs that function as tiny spoilers bend upward into the airflow to to create counter burbles that cancel out the boundary layer separation. Microelectromechanical systems - let's henceforth revert to the official acromyn MEMS - include devices (flaplets, in this case) so small that thousands of them can be built into microchips that also house the controlling sensors as well as the actuators that activate the surfaces themselves. ... For stealthy airplanes, MEMS arrays that maintain laminar flow could also be used as substitutes for conventional movable control surfaces, which create radar signatures, when they're deflected. Deflect a bunch of MEMS on one wing...[creates lift that] literally invisibly [rolls] the airplane just the way an aileron would.' - July 95 A&S 'Go With the Flow' S. Wilkinson. - --------- Not only that, but this kind of technology could greatly extend the range of an aircraft, as the article also mentions. I'd guess for the military this stuff has been being looked at for quite some time. regards, BaDge ------------------------------ From: David Lednicer Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NATO Code Names The best list of NATO Air Standards Coordinating Comittee code names I have seen is included in: Green, William and Swanborough, Gordon, "The Observer's Soviet Aircraft Directory", William Clowes & Sons, 1975. Yes, I know this book is ancient, but the list is complete up to the date of publication and includes all of the Type #s too. I have never seen a comprehensive list of later code names AND the code names of Chinese aircraft, which are included in the system. I too wonder if the system is still in use - I have never seen code names for the later Sukhoi aircraft (Su-35, etc.), Il-96 and the An-70. BTW - I just got an English language copy of the French book on the history of the MiG design OKB that head of the bureau (Belyakov) wrote - it is amazing. Among other topics, he discusses a special version of the MiG-19 intended for intercepting Canberras and other high altitude recon aircraft (like the U-2). The special MiG-19 was capable of getting to the U-2's altitude. He even confirms the old rumor that the Atoll missile (AAM-2) is a copy of a Sidewinder, captured by the Chinese after it was fired from a Nationalist F-86 and it embeded itself in a MiG-15 after all the fuses failed. On the subject of UFOs - how about if we restrict ourselves to the following: 1) No more rehashs of the "incident at Roswell NM", etc. 2) No discussions of alien (extra-terrestial) life forms (such as my newspaper boy). 3) Discussions of UFOs only if there is substantial TECHNICAL detail to be reported and the UFOS appear to be made by humans. Hence, no "I saw a fast moving, bright light" discussions. 4) By all means discuss UFOs seen to be carrying "N" numbers! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 ------------------------------ From: megazone@world.std.com (MegaZone) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Skunk Works - Moving right along... Once upon a time BaDge shaped the electrons to say... >Not only that, but this kind of technology could greatly extend the range >of an aircraft, as the article also mentions. I'd guess for the military >this stuff has been being looked at for quite some time. Yes, and the same stubbling blocks are always there - the systems have always been to bulky, consumed too much power, needed to much maintenance. The big problem has been that most systems suck in the boundary layer air, and use thousands of holes in the wing. These holes collect debris and clog - see the X-21 project - I wonder how this micro-flaps will hold up under working conditions. Will it require modifications ot the way we wash aircraft, deice them, etc? If it works, but requires too much maintenance, then it will fall by the wayside like the rest of the ideas. - -- megazone@world.std.com (508) 752-2164 MegaZone's Waste Of Time Moderator: anime fanfic archive, ftp.std.com /archives/anime-fan-works; rec.arts.anime.stories - Maintainer: Ani Difranco Mailing List - Mail to majordomo@world.std.com with 'subscribe ani-difranco' in the body. ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:44:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Skunk Works and UFOs Boy, its going to be positively Victorian! I have to evaluate if I'm going to stay around! Larry ------------------------------ From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: UFOs and Skunk Works What does alien technology have to do with the Skunk Works? Probably nothing. What does alien technology have to do with UFOs? Probably nothing. What do UFOs have to do with the Skunk Works? Probably something. Enough said. Ed Stewart - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. - ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man ------- ------------------------------ From: kuryakin@arn.net (Illya Kuryakin) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:26:58 -0500 Subject: Somebody post something skunky Subject says it all. Illya ------------------------------ From: chosa@chosa.win.net (Byron Weber) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:21:32 Subject: Alaska-North Slope Sandia National Laboratories, a Lockheed Martin company, is conducting atmospheric tests in Alaska using a UAV, previously designed for defense purposes. A gif can be found on the WWW, search Sandia/Alaska. The advantages of using the UAV are discussed, but the aircraft is not otherwise identified. Is it a Skunk-Works airplane? Sandia, as many know, has been rightly or wrongly identified in UFO literature as a principle participant in the "cover-up." In Skunk Works, Ben Rich states Paradise Ranch was discovered as a test site for the U-2 by LeVier in a scouting mission that took two days. He adds that an atomic bomb sat atop a tower nine hours before detonation when LeVie flew Bissel and Kelly to look at "Paradise Ranch." What he does not say is Sandia National Laboratories were responsible for the nuclear testing, a site they had used for years. So, there is an obvious relationship between the Skunk Works and UFOs by virtue of their relationship with Sandia, at least as far as UFO myth would have you believe. The real problem with this is that the high security employed to protect nuclear national interests is also suitable for securing tests of black aircraft, so it is not necessarily strange. If the UFO myth grew out of attempts to reconcile the secretness of secured facilities by subjective theorizing, (including Los Alamos, NM), then there is no basis for the myth. On the other hand, if a site is suitable for hiding nuclear weapons and black aircraft, then it may also be suitable for hiding UFOs, but the evidence cannot rely on the security of a location or the seizure of public lands. And, the relationship between Sandia and Lockheed does not imply the Skunk Works has anything whatsoever to do with UFOs. I am curious to know why Sandia at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories has developed an algorithm for gnome DNA hybridization? Seems a bit strayed from the nuclear thing. ------------------------------ From: davem@ee.ubc.ca (Dave Michelson) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Museum of Flight - Seattle What sort of skunky items are currently on display at Seattle's Museum of Flight? I'll be attending PIERS (Progress in Electromagnetics Research Symposium) in Seattle in late July and would like to visit the Museum of Flight while I'm there. Any info regarding things to see, admission charges, museum hours, parking, etc., would be appreciated. - -- Dave Michelson University of British Columbia davem@ee.ubc.ca Radar Remote Sensing Group ------------------------------ From: Marc Studer Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Museum of Flight (Not on the regular tour) If your going to the Museum of Flight be sure to check out: The Museum itself. It's got a lot of great stuff inside including one of SR-71's. (or a varient thereof.) Out in front they have a B-29, a Fiat G-91, an F-86, and A-4, and whatever flew in that weekend. At the south end of the field there are 1 or 2 AWACS aircraft that you can see from the gate. (At least they were there when I drove by last week.) Also at the south end is the Boeing laser plane (exact designation eludes me) that is a heavily modified 767 that contains a laser system that was built during the Star Wars era. It was grounded for the longest time but I think Boeing takes it out for a spin every so often. Enjoy your visit, ********* Marc Studer ****************************************************** ************** "I've tasted fear and it tastes like chicken." ******************* ************************************************ Jacques Portman *********** > What sort of skunky items are currently on display at Seattle's Museum>of Flight? I'll be attending PIERS (Progress in Electromagnetics Research Symposium) in Seattle in late July and would like to visit the Museum of Flight while I'm there. Any info regarding things to see, admission charges, museum hours, parking, etc., would be appreciated. - -- Dave Michelson University of British Columbia davem@ee.ubc.ca Radar Remote Sensing Group ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #300 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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