From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #353 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Friday, 14 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 353 In this issue: TT Brown's Electrogravitics re: Speed of Sound Commanche Re: Variable Stability / In-Flight Simulators Petroleum/Oil/Lubricant Types Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #351 Calspan (was: Re: Variable Stability / In-Flight Simulators) Re: JP-7 fuel Black Manta Re: TT Brown's Electrogravitics More on fuel tanks SR-71 top speed, inlets, jp-7 Re: Commanche Re: SR 71 Vne and SCRAM Re: Skunkstock '95 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 08:36:49 EST Subject: TT Brown's Electrogravitics Forwarded and edited by: Terry W. Colvin Voice: [520]538-5392 U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program FAX: [520]538-5435 Air Tasking Orders [Desert Storm I] DSN: 879-5392 Fort Huachuca (Cochise County), Arizona USA "No editor ever likes the way a story tastes unless he pees in it first." -Mark Twain ****************** T. T. Brown Papers ****************** A very rare set of 2 reports issued in the 1950's on the classified work of T. T. Brown prepared by Aviation Studies Ltd. in London for the U.S. military, recently declassified in the U.S., is available from: Integrity Research Institute 1377 K Street NW Suite 204 Washington, DC 20005 202-452-7674 - ------------------------ Electrogravitics Systems: - ------------------------ A look into the simple yet effective principle of high voltage electrostatic creation of a local gravitational well, providing reactionless propulsion. Includes a 1993 electrogravitics paper "The U.S. Antigravity Squadron" by Dr. Paul LaViolette, presented at the Institute for New Energy 1st International Symposium on New Energy, who also unearthed these two Aviation Studies Ltd. reports. #P3; 100 pages. $15 + $2 S/H = $17.00 ($5 S/H overseas) Also request their four page catalog via sending them a one stamp SASE for additional publications in these areas: Energy and Propulsion Electrical Energy Energy Distribution Effects Bioenergy Department Solar Energy ***************** 8<------------------------------------------------------------ And here is part of another, I can't help feeling I saw just such a craft one cold clear 4 am a month ago in the Northern Territory. I have spent a lot of time dwelling upon atmospheres for it is a wonderful things to see the way energy, air and water interact. At that time atmosphere was Roswellish with two distinct dry layers and a sharp boundary between where both puffs of vapour and ufo's came and went. I mean, I only have the evidence of my own eyes. So who are they? I'd have been tempted to dangle balloons up there too to see what was going on. I wonder if a cherubim type craft "materialized" where something was in the way, if in fact the "crashes" are because we are occupying the atmosphere with solid objects. Gosh but we've been naughty and the prefects have been caught out.... Lawrie 8<------------------------------------------------------------ Message 15 (283 lines) From owner-ufo-l@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Thu Mar 30 06:38:05 1995 From: anonymous@FREEZONE.REMAILER Subject: Anti-Gravity (fwd) (partial post) The Following is an essay by Paul A. LaViolette, Ph.D. It is also an excerpt from the book "Electrogravitics Systems: Reports on a New Propulsion Methodology" by Thomas Valone, M.A., P.E. The U.S. Antigravity Squadron by Paul A. LaViolette, Ph.D. Abstract Electrogravitic (antigravity) technology, under development in U.S. Air Force black R&D programs since late 1954, may now have been put to practical use in the B-2 Advanced Technology Bomber to provide an exotic auxiliary mode of propulsion. This inference is based on the recent disclosure that the B-2 charges both its wing leading edge and jet exhaust stream to a high voltage. Positive ions emitted from its wing leading edge would produce a positively charged parabolic ion sheath ahead of the craft while negative ions injected into it's exhaust stream would set up a trailing negative space charge with a potential difference in excess of 15 million volts. According to electrogravitic research carried out by physicist T. Townsend Brown, such a differential space charge would set up an artificial gravity field that would induce a reactionless force on the aircraft in the direction of the positive pole. An electrogravitic drive of this sort could allow the B-2 to function with over-unity propulsion efficiency when cruising at supersonic velocities. For many years rumors circulated that the U.S. was secretly developing a highly advanced, radar-evading aircraft. Rumor turned to reality in November of 1988, when the Air Force unveiled the B-2 Advanced Technology Bomber. Although military spokesmen provided the news media with some information about the craft's outward design, and low radar and infrared profile, there was much they were silent about. However, several years later, some key secrets about the B-2 were leaked to the press. On March 9, 1992, "Aviation Week and Space Technology" magazine made a surprising disclosure that the B-2 electrostatically charges its exhaust stream and the leading edges of its wing-like body.(1) Those familiar with the electrogravitics research of American physicist T. Townsend Brown will quickly realize that this is tantamount to stating that the B-2 is able to function as an antigravity aircraft. "Aviation Week" obtained their information about the B-2 from a small group of renegade west coast scientists and engineers who were formerly associated with black research projects. In making these disclosures, these scientists broke a code of silence that rivals the Mafia's. They took the risk because they felt that it was important for economic reasons that efforts be made to declassify certain black technologies for commercial use. Two of these individuals said that their civil rights had been blatantly abused (in the name of security) either to keep them quiet or to prevent them from leaving the tightly controlled black R&D community. Several months after "Aviation Week" published the article, black world security personnel went into high gear. That sector of the black R&D community received VERY STRONG warnings and, as a result, the group of scientists subsequently broke off contact with the magazine. Clearly, the overseers of black R&D programs were substantially concerned about the information leaks that had come out in that article. To completely understand the significance of what was said about the B-2, one must first become familiar with Brown's work. Beginning in the mid 1920's, Townsend Brown discovered that it is possible to create an artificial gravity field by charging an electrical capacitor to a high-voltage.(2) He specially built a capacitor which utilized a heavy, high charge-accumulating (high K-factor) dielectric material between its plates and found that when charges with between 70,000 to 300,000 volts, it would move in the direction of its positive pole. When oriented with its positive side up, it would proceed to lose about 1 percent of it's weight. (3, 4) He attributed this motion to an electrostatically-induced gravity field acting between the capacitor's oppositely charged plates. By 1958, he had succeeded in developing a 15 inch diameter model saucer that could lift over 110% of its weight!(5) Brown's experiments had launched a new field of investigation which came to be known as electrogravitics, the technology of controlling gravity through the use of high-voltage electric charge...... ------------------------------ From: (SSG, ANTHONY, MAA, 565) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 9:07:04 PDT Subject: re: Speed of Sound Byron, Thanks for the added explanation of Mach. We have been going round and round with IAS, TAS, and Mach and relationships of each. When you go for years thinking you know what they are and find you are wrong, it's kinda annoying. The way I understand it is the "air" molecules don't change size with temp. or altitude. The density (distance between molecules) increases with altitude and molecular activity (I'm not sure exactly what is moving faster, though) increases with temp. So the way it seems to be is Mach 1 is a given speed for a given temp. If the temp. at sea level is 59C, then Mach 1 is a certain speed (~660 knots?). If it is (theoretically) 59C at 10K ft, Mach 1 is the same. True? If so, our Mach indicators are only accurate for one temp. as they show a change of Mach with a change of IAS or static (altitude). Just out of curiousity, how inaccurate could they be due to this? Is the temp. stable enough that it isn't a factor? Back to the books I guess. Tony ------------------------------ From: kklapper@vt.edu (Kevin Klapperich) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:45:36 -0400 Subject: Commanche Does anyone have any current information on the Army's LHX/Commanche program? Has it been scaped or is it still in the works? Thanks, Kevin ------------------------------ From: mangan@edac1.kodak.com (Paul Mangan) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:48:25 EDT Subject: Re: Variable Stability / In-Flight Simulators My inlaws home is on the approach to the Niagara Falls Airport. I'll be there this weekend. Is there a way to tell the VISTA from the rest of the aircraft? (Not that there are that many F16s flying into the Niagara Air Base.) Paul mangan@kodak.com ps: Of course I'll have my cameras with me. After all that's why I work for the premier Imaging Company. :) > From skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Thu Jul 13 12:41:04 1995 > Subject: Re: Variable Stability / In-Flight Simulators > To: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com > Cc: schnars@ais.org, skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Sender: skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > Content-Length: 1650 > X-Lines: 38 > > Lou Knotts told me that they were doing the tests _without_ the tip tanks; > they're operating out of Niagara Falls Airport, using the alert barn so > that they don't have to taxi very far. They only get about 6 approaches > without the tip tanks, for about half an hour. They usually get at least > 12, in an hour. > > Regards, > mary > > > Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com > URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html > Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard > Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... > > > On Thu, 13 Jul 1995 Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com wrote: > > > The VISTA is currently flying GE. As most of you know, the F16 can be equipped with > > either GE or P&W fans. The VISTA is scheduled to have the GE replaced with > > the P&W 2-D nozzle engine. Last time I visited Calspan they showed a movie of > > the new P&W on the test stand. The nozzle is round, and when installed will > > be the fastest moving "control surface" on the A/C. > > > > There is a political side to this change. The VISTA will be the first F16 to be converted > > from GE to P&W power. Since the 2 D nozzle engine is still the "stocker" from the > > nozzle forward, it is beleived that P&W sees this as an opportunity to get a > > field conversion process in place. With the price of afterburning turbofans these days, > > one quickly sees the advantage for Pratt and the potential loss for GE. > > > > I`m sure my elected officials will be involved, aerospace specialists that they are! > > > > BTW- the T33 is pretty busy. It did have a scrub recently because the tip tanks were > > about to fall off! > > Chuck > > > > ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 10:04:29 EST Subject: Petroleum/Oil/Lubricant Types JP-4 JP-5 JP-7 JP-8 115/145 Grade 100/130 Grade 80/87 Grade Jet Fuel, Type Unknown 73 Non Leaded 80 Non Leaded 91/96 Grade 100 Low Lead 108/135 Grade Jet Fuel ASTM Type A Jet Fuel ASTM Type A-1 with ice inhibitor Jet Fuel ASTM Type A-1 without ice inhibitor Jet Fuel ASTM Type B [ASTM is American Society for Testing Materials] Diesel Fuel [General classification of diesel fuels] Diesel Fuel 1 Diesel Fuel 2 Diesel Fuel A Motor Vehicle Gasoline Other Distillates 1065 Grade [Reciprocating engine oil (MIL-L-6082)] 1100 Grade [Reciprocating engine oil (MIL-L-6082)] 1100 Grade Plus Cyclohexanone [MIL-L-6082] 1065 (Dispersant) Grade [Reciprocating engine oil (MIL-L-22851 Type III] 1100 (Dispersant) Grade [Reciprocating engine oil (MIL-L-22851 Type II] 1005 Grade [Jet engine oil (MIL-L-6081)] 1010 Grade [Jet engine oil (MIL-L-6081)] MIL-L-23699 (Synthetic Base) [Turboprop and turboshaft engine oil] MIL-L-7808 (Synthetic Base) [Turbine engine oil] Gasoline, aviation, Grade 100/130 [U.S. equivalent: 100/130 Mil Spec, grade 100 gasoline low lead (blue)] Turbine Fuel, aviation, kerosene type with S748 [S748 is fuel system icing inhibitor. U.S. equivalent: Jet A-1, kerosene with FS-II fuel system icing inhibitor, freeze point minus 47 degrees centigrade, and JP-8 Mil Spec.] Turbine Fuel, aviation, kerosene type [U.S. equivalent: Jet A-1, kerosene, without FS-II fuel system icing inhibitor, freeze point minus 47 C.] Turbine Fuel, aviation, wide out type, with S748 [Grade JP-4. S748 is fuel system icing hibitor. U.S. equivalent: JP-4 Mil Spec, freeze point minus 58 degrees centigrade.] Turbine Fuel, aviation, high flash type with S478 [Grade JP-5. FP -46 C.] Gasoline, automotive, military (91 RON) Diesel Fuel, military Gasoline, automotive, (98 RON) Kerosene [F58] Fog Oil Diesel Fuel, low temperature blend Gasoline, automotive, unleaded (95 RON) Fuel, Naval Distillate, low pour point Fuel, Naval Distillate Fuel Residual, light viscosity boiler Butane General aviation gas LPG/LNG/Natural gas Lubricants ------------------------------ From: russellk@BIX.com Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #351 Calspan also did the calculations required for the AMC Javelin that did a barrel roll across a canal in the James Bond movie, "Man with the Golden Gun." The trick was originally developed for one of the stunt-driving groups, as I recall. ==================================================== Russell Kay, Technical Editor, BYTE Magazine 1 Phoenix Mill Lane, Peterborough, NH 03458 603-924-2591; fax 603-924-2550 russellk@bix.com ==================================================== ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 13-Jul-1995 1347 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 13:58:26 EDT Subject: Calspan (was: Re: Variable Stability / In-Flight Simulators) Mary Shafer wrote re Calspan: >They do car crashing for manufacturers and DoT. Way off charter, but William Milliken of Calspan, along with the late Mark Donohue, developed the concept of the "friction circle", which describes the total traction budget for a given road vehicle. You can use that budget to accelerate, brake, or turn, but if you exceed it you will lose traction and perhaps vehicle control. Donohue and others, notably Paul van Valkenburgh of Chevrolet R&D, used this as a basis for some of the more interesting race cars of the period. George George Allegrezza | Digital Equipment Corporation | "He has a perfect face for radio." Mobile Systems Business | Littleton MA USA | -- from "Quiz Show" allegrezza@ljsrv2.enet.dec.com | ------------------------------ From: megazone@world.std.com (MegaZone) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: JP-7 fuel Once upon a time ALBERT DOBYNS shaped the electrons to say... >Someone actually threw a match into gasoline and the match went out??? >That gives me the shivers! It is dead simple - liquid gasoline does *not* burn. Only the vapor burns. If you get the match through the vapor quickly so that the flame does not have time ot ignite the vapor, it will go out. You need a good mix of oxygen and gas vapor for it to ignite, and there is a small mixing region where this is the case over a puddle of gas. - -- megazone@world.std.com (508) 752-2164 MegaZone's Waste Of Time Moderator: anime fanfic archive, ftp.std.com /archives/anime-fan-works; rec.arts.anime.stories - Maintainer: Ani Difranco Mailing List - Mail to majordomo@world.std.com with 'subscribe ani-difranco' in the body. ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 13:22:05 EST Subject: Black Manta I noticed your posting to Forteana, and yes, there is such a craft under develo pment with SW, though its form and abilities are classified. (I am unsure of th e level, sorry) It only resembles the "Stealth" in color, and probably composit ion. (The latter I am unsure of) I have seen a photo of a proto type, though pr oto-types and functional models vary greatly sometimes. It is supposedly 6 time s faster than the stealth plane, though again, no data has been released. They are currently under development for an even newer plane, beyond the Manta, but is not release scheduled until 2007. The Manta was scheduled to become operational in 1991, though I left government service before then, so I am unsure of its final function date. And it is more stable than the stealth, with a much wider performance envelope, whereas the stealth is horrible at handling at lower speeds, due to the delta wing design. The main idea for the manta was to build a performance fighter/interceptor, capa ble of sustained mach 6. (Wonder why? No competition worldwide, past mach 3!) Some mentioned it would take the place of the F-15 and F-16. (Not the F-14, as the Manta takes too much runway to launch from carriers.) Plus its extreme spee d is an aid, combined with maneuverability approaching an F-15, it would be designated "F", due to its fighter characteristics, and only small bombs or missle s would be able to be used, capable of wing mounting 4 "Sidewinder" size missles, 2 to a side. I had the copy of a white-letter from the director of SW, and in it he discusse d the next level of craft, he hopes it can achieve speeds above mach 12, but again, that is only his goal for their next product. If I can find the latter, I' ll send it to you if you like.... Hope this is helpful.... LarryC.. Keeper of the spillproof coffee mugs. ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: TT Brown's Electrogravitics > >From owner-ufo-l@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Thu Mar 30 06:38:05 1995 > From: anonymous@FREEZONE.REMAILER > Subject: Anti-Gravity (fwd) > > The U.S. Antigravity Squadron > > Electrogravitic (antigravity) technology, under development in U.S. > Air Force black R&D programs since late 1954, may now have been put > to practical use in the B-2 Advanced Technology Bomber to provide an > exotic auxiliary mode of propulsion. This post has been making the UFO rounds for a while now, but of course we know that any "B-2/antigravity" talk is nothing more than a load of lunatic fringe nonsense, put forth by people with apparently no real knowledge of either the B-2 or its propulsion system. > This inference is based on the recent disclosure that the B-2 > charges both its wing leading edge and jet exhaust stream to > a high voltage. Actually that was no recent disclosure. There was a brief, speculative mention in an AW&ST article a few years ago, and (of course) it had nothing whatsoever to do with "anti-gravity". It merely seems to have sparked the imagination of the aforementioned fringe types. > An electrogravitic drive of this sort could allow the B-2 to function > with over-unity propulsion efficiency when cruising at supersonic > velocities. Again demonstrating no knowledge or understanding of the B-2, which is a SUBsonic aircraft. Cute fiction, although somewhat annoying in its continual regurgitation around the net. ------------------------------ From: rons@ctg (Ron Schweikert) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:50:13 -0600 Subject: More on fuel tanks Mike asked: >Does this mean that all the tanks are large enough to actually get >inside of... snip... Yes. You can (and do) crawl up inside the main fuselage tanks to apply sealant, change the fuel probes or do pump maintenence (when you don't just remove them). Fresh air is pumped in, and you have someone standing by to help if you pass out. THe fumes are not nearly so noxious or toxic as JP-4 though so you don't wear masks. The wing tanks give you access just by taking off the top panels. Cheers! ROn ------------------------------ From: rons@ctg (Ron Schweikert) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:42:35 -0600 Subject: SR-71 top speed, inlets, jp-7 Whew. Gone for four days and have over 100 mail messages! Just to add a couple of insights on some of the discussions: Machmeter: perhaps ONE plane had a meter that went to 6 as Su Wei-Jen stated, but after having spent hundreds of hours in the front seat doing preflights, postflights and general maint on the SR, I concur with Mary on the machmeter. Speed: each flight produced a set of "tapes" about the performance of the aircraft listing such things as fuel pump output, speed, altitude etc. etc. (what a headache...the pilot would land and say, "Great flight! No Problems!" and we think we have an easy night ahead of us and the tapes would come back and show all kinds of things out of whack...but I digress)... anyway, the tapes went "off" at 80K and M3.2 for much of the flight so we couldn't tell how high it *really* went, or fast. However as it regards speed, the SR pilots I talked to said "just a bit faster" when referring to 3.2. Shock waves in the inlet: yes. There's a "shock trap" about 22" inside the inlet where the spike is supposed to hold the shock wave. The spike starts retracting at about 1.4M to hold the wave there. As it picks up speed, the spike retracts to it's maximum position 22" aft. JP-7: Having bathed in this stuff ( :-( ) you can feel the teflon additives...or maybe it's just all in our head. It doesn't feel like JP-4 IMHO as JP-4 seemed colder and evaporated faster, whereas JP-7 left residue (kinda oily). It also doesn't smell as "noxious" as JP-4. Leaking tanks: I don't believe they added anything to the fuel to help stop the leaks. Only teflon to help lubricate internal parts. When the planes came back from maint. in Palmdale they were tight and great to work on. Even after a 'yo-yo' (fill tanks to purge air, load LN2, defuel to flight load) they leaked very little. After about 10 hot flights though (some more, some less), you wore rain gear under some of them. 963 strikes me as particularly bad, 956 as very good (972 as well). My plane, 958, was about average. I'm enjoying all these very high-tech discussions on beta, theta et al., even if I haven't got a clue what you're talking about! :-) Back to lurk mode! Ron ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Commanche On Thu, 13 Jul 1995, Kevin Klapperich wrote: > Does anyone have any current information on the Army's LHX/Commanche program? > Has it been scaped or is it still in the works? > Thanks, > Kevin > > Hello, the Boeing Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche was cancelled in the middle of the construction of the first prototype, but was later refunded again. The first prototypemade its public debut on May 25, 1995 in Connecticut. For more information, see Aviation Week & Space Technology of May 29, 1995, p. 75-77. Live Long and Prosper Su Wei-Jen wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 22:53:24 -0700 Subject: Re: SR 71 Vne and SCRAM >To get hypersonic you need rockets, or supersonic combustion chambers and they >don`t exist yet. They DO exist (scramjets that is)! The earliest lab engine that I've been able to find, existed in 1958, and there have been numerous static test articles since then. I have held this first engine in my hand, courtesy of Fred Billig, who did the experiment. As I posted earlier, a dummy scramjet flew on X-15A-2. It was partially functional, if one thinks about it. Also, John Becker calls the hot structure work that was done on HRE very successful (in Hallion's "Hypersonic Revolution"). > Nobody knows how to handle the flame impingement on the >reflected shocks yet. If I understand what you're driving at here, that problem has been solved. Scramjets require an inlet isolator, which seperates the combustor from the inlet. The isolator will develop it's own oblique shock system due to the increased pressure caused by supersonic combustion. In design, of a dual mode engine for example, one needs to make the inlet isolator long enough to handle the different modes of heat addition in the different flight regimes. Without an isolator, it won't work, due to the combustion shock and inlet shock interference. To me, this is one of the REALY COOL aspects of scrams! Here you have a supersonic flow, you're adding heat, and nature forms a chain of oblique shocks UPSTREAM to match the pressure increase of combustion! Also, seperation is not a problem on the test engines. > Also, how do you handle the stagnation streamlines going >to the flame holders. -at present, you dont. You don't have flameholders like in a ramjet, and the flow is not a stagnation flow. Flow velocities through the duct are 1/2 to 1/3 freestream, depending on the flight regime. In a dual mode engine, when you want subsonic combustion with a supersonic freestream (ramjet mode) you do it with a thermal throat. The duct doesn't form a mechanical throat like in the SR. Larry ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 23:22:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Skunkstock '95 It just occurred to me. If somebody can bring/borrow a VCR and TV, I can can my hands on a 1 hour video on the D-21A and D-21B programs. This video is really cool and shows all aspects of the D-21 program. I'm sure the person that owns it (the video) will allow us to see it. Maybe some of you out there have your own copies and are planning on showing them. If so, let me know and I won't ask to bring the one I can get my hands on. Larry ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #353 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).