From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #356 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Monday, 17 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 356 In this issue: NEW TECHNOLOGIES: Using Extropy to leverage Entropy Re: NEW TECHNOLOGIES: Using Extropy to leverage Entropy FW: O'Grady Story from St. Louis Buddies Re: keeping the engineers honest... See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 17:36:43 EST Subject: NEW TECHNOLOGIES: Using Extropy to leverage Entropy Lockheed is referenced in this message. TWC ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: NEW TECHNOLOGIES: Using Extropy to leverage Entropy Author: extropians@extropy.org at smtp Date: 15/7/1995 9:21 PM The saga of using the cleanest combustible fuel, hydrogen has been fraught with many mis-steps. Most of the useful patents are either expired or on their way to become public domain. In the 1970's the last real intensive era of research and development into utilizing hydrogen for fuel took place. Lockheed and the Billings people conducted tests into the main issues of hydrogen storage and burning. Billings originally did the work in Utah, later moving to Kansas City to shift emphasis to computers from hydrogen storage in automobiles with metal hydrides consisting of nickel alloy. Lockheed oriented activity towards liquid hydrogen for aerospace applications. L-1011 designs were made to have cryogenic tanks for a cargo plane. What happened to a fuel that leaves only water, highly clean at that for a result for automobiles and aircraft? Lockheed came under fiscal pressure and probably ran of funding sources to continue. The Lockheed patents are most likely in the public domain and therefore could be used by a start up to get going. Billings eventually curtailed work in the 1980's to go into the more lucrative computer business. Metal hydride patents held may have been passed on to some other companies since. Nanotechnology could be the ticket to getting hydrogen fuel back on the main line of development. How in the era of single quarter based results on Wall Street? The main problems earlier are essentially solved and on the shelf with those patents mentioned above. Those groups of researchers had to develop infrastructure from scratch, this of course is no longer necessary if the patents are in the public domain and the basic items can be manufactured with moderate capital requirements. The stress can be made to resolve performance of storage and refine distribution issues. Nanotechnology could be used to hyper pack metal hydrides that are made of primitive nanomachines that go through a series of maneuvers to maximize density and weight of the hydride. The good part is that nanomachines of this type need only be stable in a very controlled environment and have limited complexity. On a side note, such development would also create the nanotechnology infrastructure in a niche fashion by creating a bulk marketplace to catalyze the new revolution. Hyper-ordering would create a series of midstream allows during the hydrogen loading into the matrix. A conceivable amount of steps that may add up to dozens of phases. The packing process would have a simpler venting going on that entropy takes place during the unloading and moves the fuel into the engine quite easily. Heat from the entropic activity would be the energy to drive the nanoworks next loading sequence. This may sound non-intuitive, but it is somewhat like using a heater with memory metals, conveniently similar in structure to nickel alloy in metal hydrides in the past, to wind a clock up. Lockheed type technology has practical support roles to play. They developed various procedures to move cryogenic and gaseous fuel mixtures between tanks, bulk containers with an eye to using this around an airport. The demanding nature of getting FAA approval means that the Lockheed technology for hydrogen was probably better than what is need in a typical fuel station setting. Extropy built with nanotechnology can assimilate entropy if the paradigm is implemented correctly. It is time to uncork the potential sitting on the US-PTO shelves now! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BTW - those with the anonymous business cards, have you sent e-mail yet? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 03:55:39 PDT Subject: Re: NEW TECHNOLOGIES: Using Extropy to leverage Entropy C`mon folks, do we really need this new-age twaddle here? Nothing like violating the 1st and 2nd laws for a real story. Myth #2: H2l burns leaving nothing but water. Yes, in a vacuum. If you use air for oxygen source you get all kinds of nasty products of combustion. Nitrous oxide, and NH3 for starters. Even rockets using "pure" O2 have secondary reactions that occur when the exhaust mixes with the atmosphere. The exhaust temperature of a H2/O2 rocket is high enough that the Ksp effects can show high dissociation of the water vapor exhaust. This means high H+ concentrations which last I knew, meant highly corrosive. The cleanest source of energy from hydrogen I`ve seen is fuel cells. Unforunately, the power generated is not viable for A/C propulsion. Chuck "Aerospace Engineer to the Stars" ------------------------------ From: AINLEYD@bluemt.ksc.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 10:38:00 EDT Subject: FW: O'Grady Story from St. Louis Buddies RI stands for Rockwell International. Though not very skunky, try deciphering the acronyms in the following post: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ I just got this on E-Mail, it's the story of the O'Grady rescue. It looks like it's been routed all over the world, I deleted all that. THE STORY BEGINS HERE********************************** > >(8 Jun 95) >To all my Viper buds and other Shit Hot Fighter Gods on the net - > > It was a good day at Aviano! As you guys have no doubt heard, we >rescued Scott "Zulu" O'Grady today after 6 days of E&Eing in the Bosnian >countryside. We had an idea that he was still out there but hadn't had >positive radio contact until about 0000Z this morning when Capt T.O. Hanford >had some extra gas so he stayed in his CAP a little longer and tried to >reach >Zulu on the SAR A (PRC-112) freq from the day of the shoot down. > After about 40 minutes of calls in the blind, T.O. started getting some >suspect clicks on the mike. Finally, Zulu came up voice. T.O. didn't have >all the info from Zulu's ISOPREP so he came up with >a quick way to verify it was indeed Zulu, although it sounded like Zulu >recognized T.O.'s voice and called him by name (although the comm was weak >since T.O. (Basher 11) was about 70 miles away). The comm went something >like this. > >"Basher 52 this is Basher 11" >click >"Basher 52, this is Basher 11, are you up on this freq" >"This is Basher 52" >"Say again, understand this is Basher 52" >"This is Basher 52...I'm alive" >"Say again, Basher 52, you are weak and unreadable, this is Basher 11" >"This is Basher 52!" > >pause > >"Basher 52, what squadron were you in at Kunsan?" >"Juvats! Juvats! I'm alive!" >"Copy that, you're alive! Basher 52, sit tight and come back up at 15 past >the hour" > > T.O. then started coordinating with Magic to pass words to the Deny >Flight CAOC (command center) that he had positive radio contact with Basher >52. They replied that T.O. should pass the word "manana" to Basher 52. > When he did, Zulu replied "I want to get picked up tonight!" (imagine >that). So T.O. passed that to the CAOC and the decision was made to press >with a rescue. We were 2 hours before sunrise so it would be daylight but >there was concern (rightly so) that word would get out to the press and >every SA-6 in the AOR would be mobile and spiking us and the rest of the >rescue package. So they went ASAP. > > T.O. stayed airborne (now at about the 4 hour point in his sortie - >one note here: T.O. got high marks for wingman consideration for advising >his wingman that it was a good time to take a piss on the way to the tanker! > That video clip probably won't make CNN ) and the 510 FS Buzzards scrambled >our alert guys (I was #2). Unfortunately, Vaughn "Slot" Littlejohn and I >had just gone from 60 minute alert to 180 minute alert and I had headed home >to get some sleep. The phone rang at about 0255L (after about 10 minutes of >sleep) telling me to get in there ASAP. I was back at the SQ in 15 minutes. > Before I was even in the door, our ADO, Phil "Psycho" Sever told me we had >positive radio contact, get dressed, step, crank, and taxi ASAP - I would >meet SLOT in EOR whenever he made it in. We were in the air at about 0400L >(1+05 from a dead sleep at home) loaded with 2xGBU-12s, 2 slammers, 2 9Ms, a >131 pod, and 2 tanks (Standard DF SCL). We swapped out with T.O. manning >the cap and staying in touch with Zulu every 15 minutes. A SEAD package was >getting airborne as T.O. started his RTB. We had a plan with the F-18Ds >(Harm shooters (kind of), with NVGs and a WSO), EFs, and EA-6Bs to try to >establish contact. But since we already had contact, the F-18s just did a >recce run to get a good fix on him and to check the weather. > > Meanwhile, Zobe the hero, callsign Rock 42, was hanging on Slot's >wing 70 miles away listening to the whole thing, ensuring my tape was on. I >can't wait to tell my grandkids about the day I put all my Weapons School >training to use - "No shit, kids, there I was - tape on, tape off, tape on, >tape off. The pressure was incredible!" Seriously, although I didn't do >shit, it was shit hot to listen to the entire mission unfolding. The helos >were inbound, authenicating Zulu (they asked him what he was called in high >school when he got drunk!) With a good ID they moved in, had Zulu pop some >smoke, and picked him up. The whole thing from the authentication to the >pick-up was about 10 minutes (seemed like an eternity). To hear comm like, >"Basher 52, got you in sight", was pretty moving, especially after thinking >for most of the week that Zulu was a mort ("Wilbur" Wright didn't see a >chute, no radio contact, etc.) I've >never been choked up in the jet before, but I was this morning. > > Unfortunately, they weren't out of danger yet. We hit the tanker >and when we came back up to Magic freq the helos were about 13 miles from >feet >wet. Then I heard the escort chopper, c/s Bull, say, "Bud, impacts >underneath >you. SAMS IN THE AIR! SAMS IN THE AIR!" FUCK!! Luckily, they missed, >although they took some small arms fire and apparently the gunner from Bull >silenced that. About 10 minutes later, we heard the call that they were >feet >wet, then shortly after that that they had "mother in sight" (the ship), two >more bits of comm that I will never forget. > > So we got one of our own back. What a day. I wish we could have >done more in the rescue but it was almost entirely a Navy and Marine show >(we and the mud-eagles were in the cap) and they kicked ass. So don't bad >mouth the squids and jarheads too loudly - they put on a good act today and >we've got a Viper driver back because of it. > > I thought you might enjoy hearing the story straight from the CSAR >Commander of VTR Ops! Hope it wasn't too mushy, but after all, I did cry >when I watched Old Yeller. That's just the emotional type of guy I am! > Hope all is well with you guys at your various bases. Drop me a line and >let me know what's up. Fly safe, check six, and pray for the UN leadership >to get a clue and let us blow these bastards back into the stone age! > >Zobe > > > > ----- End Included Message ----- ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: keeping the engineers honest... The X-15 was made of Inconel-X; the XB-70 of stainless steel honeycomb. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, Illya Kuryakin wrote: > At 17:41 7/15/95, Jon Price (PJ wrote: > +>On another issue, would someone tell me where titanium is used in SR-71 and > +>where Inconel? > +> > +Titanium is used throughout the SR. Somewhere around 80-90% of the structure. > +Inconel? Have'nt got a clue there either. It was used in the x-15 and > +XB-70, but just where and how much, I could'nt say. > > Actually, leading edges are the obvious choice. Wings, nacelles, fins... > nose. Anyplace that there are pressure loads on the aircraft. > > Illya > > ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #356 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).