From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #357 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 18 July 1995 Volume 05 : Number 357 In this issue: Another JP-7 flashpoint insight IUMOTA -ITPOJ Re: FW: O'Grady Story from St. Louis Buddies Re: IUMOTA -ITPOJ Re: FW: O'Grady Story from St. Louis Buddies Re: SR 71 Vne and SCRAM Re: Welcome to skunk-works-digest Re: SR 71 Vne and SCRAM [none] See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ron Schweikert Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:24:24 -0600 Subject: Another JP-7 flashpoint insight Michael Masterson talked about a maint. person putting out a fuel fire with JP-7. I don't doubt it. To demonstrate the lack of volatility of JP-7, one need only watch a launch in the "early" days when we used the Buick start carts rather than the air starts phased in when I was leaving. (Actually, the Buicks continued to be used at the trim pad for maint). Anyway, when the Buick's were going full-tilt, just before disconnect, the exhause (unmuffled, through headers) was directed at the ground. Sometimes in the daylight, but certainly at night, you could see the flame from the Buicks touching the cement -- basically a blowtorch. Often the hanger floor was covered with JP-7, and still it wouldn't light (THANK GOD!!!). Anyway, as many have pointed out, it took the TEB to get it going. Thanks for the great postings! Ron ------------------------------ From: tullman.robert@ehccgate.sandoz.com Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 13:17:01 -0400 Subject: IUMOTA -ITPOJ Skunkers, I Understand Most Of The Acronyms - Its This Piece of Jargon : >Before I was even in the door, our ADO, Phil "Psycho" Sever told me >we had positive radio contact, get dressed, step, crank, and taxi >ASAP - I would meet SLOT in EOR whenever he made it in. We were in >the air at about 0400L (1+05 from a dead sleep at home) loaded with >2xGBU-12s, 2 slammers, ^^^^^^^^^^^ What are SLAMMERS??? I doubt they were carrying AGM-84E's.. Maybe Mk 82's, Mavericks, HARMs? Anyone know? (this transcript played for awhile on rec.aviation.military but I never saw the explication there either..) TIA, Bob ------------------------------ From: kuryakin@arn.net (Illya Kuryakin) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:32:19 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: O'Grady Story from St. Louis Buddies +RI stands for Rockwell International. Though not very skunky, try +deciphering the acronyms in the following post: +>To all my Viper Unit nickname? buds and other Shit Hot Fighter Gods Viper is probably the units' nickname. F-16's. on the net - +> +> It was a good day at Aviano! As you guys have no doubt heard, we +>rescued Scott "Zulu" O'Grady today after 6 days of E&E Escape and Evasion ing in the Bosnian +>countryside. We had an idea that he was still out there but hadn't had +>positive radio contact until about 0000Z this morning when Capt T.O. +Hanford +>had some extra gas so he stayed in his CAP Combat Air Patrol a little longer and tried to +>reach +>Zulu O'Grady + on the SAR A (PRC-112) Search and Rescue Frequency (radio) freq from the day of the shoot down. +> After about 40 minutes of calls in the blind Calling O'Grady in hopes that he responds + T.O. started getting some +>suspect clicks on the mike. Finally, Zulu came up voice O'Grady figured out how to turn on the radio. + T.O. didn't have +>all the info from Zulu's ISOPREP Probably some kind of coded authentication proceedure. + so he came up with +>a quick way to verify it was indeed Zulu, although it sounded like Zulu +>recognized T.O.'s voice and called him by name (although the comm was weak +>since T.O. (Basher 11) was about 70 miles away). The comm the conversation over the communcation channel + went something +>like this. +> +>"Basher 52 this is Basher 11" +>click +>"Basher 52, this is Basher 11, are you up on this freq" +>"This is Basher 52" +>"Say again, understand this is Basher 52" +>"This is Basher 52...I'm alive" +>"Say again, Basher 52, you are weak and unreadable, this is Basher 11" +>"This is Basher 52!" +> +>pause +> +>"Basher 52, what squadron were you in at Kunsan?" +>"Juvats! Juvats! I'm alive!" +>"Copy that, you're alive! Basher 52, sit tight and come back up at 15 past +>the hour" +> +> T.O. then started coordinating with Magic E3 AWACS? + to pass words to the Deny +>Flight CAOC (command center) The consortium that's controlling the airspace above Yugo on behalf of NATO and the UN. + that he had positive radio contact with Basher +>52. They replied that T.O. should pass the word "manana" to Basher 52. +> When he did, Zulu replied "I want to get picked up tonight!" (imagine +>that). So T.O. passed that to the CAOC and the decision was made to press +>with a rescue. We were 2 hours before sunrise so it would be daylight but +>there was concern (rightly so) that word would get out to the press and +>every SA-6 in the AOR Rear Operational Area (?) + would be mobile on alert + and spiking us turning on and acquiring the incoming friendlies with radar +and the rest of the +>rescue package. So they went ASAP. Real quick. ;) +> +> T.O. stayed airborne (now at about the 4 hour point in his sortie - +>one note here: T.O. got high marks for wingman consideration for advising +>his wingman that it was a good time to take a piss on the way to the +tanker! +> That video clip probably won't make CNN ) and the 510 FS Buzzards 510th Fighter Squadron "Buzzards" +scrambled +>our alert guys (I was #2). Unfortunately, Vaughn "Slot" Littlejohn and I +>had just gone from 60 minute alert to 180 minute alert and I had headed +home +>to get some sleep. The phone rang at about 0255L (after about 10 minutes +of +>sleep) telling me to get in there ASAP. I was back at the SQ Squadron Ready Room (?) + in 15 minutes. +> Before I was even in the door, our ADO, Phil "Psycho" Sever told me we had +>positive radio contact, get dressed, put on flight gear + step, Start the preflight checks + crank, Gentlemen... Start Your Engines! + and taxi ASAP Get the hell out of Dodge + - I would +>meet SLOT in EOR whenever he made it in. We were in the air at about 0400L +>(1+05 from a dead sleep at home) loaded with 2xGBU-12s, Laser Guided Bombs 2 slammers, (?) 2 9Ms, AIM-9M Sidewinders +a +>131 pod, ECM Pod + and 2 tanks External Fuel Tanks + (Standard DF SCL). We swapped out with T.O. manning +>the cap and staying in touch with Zulu every 15 minutes. A SEAD rescue + package mission +was +>getting airborne as T.O. started his RTB Return To Base + We had a plan with the F-18Ds +>(Harm Anti-Radiation (Wild Weasel, but not dedicated to the mission) + shooters (kind of), with NVG Night Vision Gear (?) +s and a WSO Weapon Systems Officer +), EF EF-111 Aardvarks +, and EA-6Bs to try to +>establish contact. But since we already had contact, the F-18s just did a +>recce run to get a good fix on him and to check the weather. +> +> Meanwhile, Zobe the hero, callsign Rock 42, was hanging on Slot's +>wing 70 miles away listening to the whole thing, ensuring my tape was on. + I +>can't wait to tell my grandkids about the day I put all my Weapons School +>training to use - "No shit, kids, there I was - tape on, tape off, tape on, +>tape off. The pressure was incredible!" Seriously, although I didn't do +>shit, it was shit hot to listen to the entire mission unfolding. The helos +>were inbound, authenicating Zulu (they asked him what he was called in high +>school when he got drunk!) With a good ID they moved in, had Zulu pop some +>smoke, and picked him up. The whole thing from the authentication to the +>pick-up was about 10 minutes (seemed like an eternity). To hear comm like, +>"Basher 52, got you in sight", was pretty moving, especially after thinking +>for most of the week that Zulu was a mort Dead + ("Wilbur" Wright His wingman? + didn't see a chute, no radio contact, etc.) I've +>never been choked up in the jet before, but I was this morning. +> +> Unfortunately, they weren't out of danger yet. We hit the tanker +>and when we came back up to Magic freq the helos were about 13 miles from +>feet +>wet. Then I heard the escort chopper, c/s Bull, say, "Bud, impacts +>underneath +>you. SAMS IN THE AIR! SAMS IN THE AIR!" FUCK!! Recognition of Extreme Risk to the Airframe and Pilot + Luckily, they missed, +>although they took some small arms fire and apparently the gunner from Bull +>silenced that. About 10 minutes later, we heard the call that they were +>feet +>wet, then shortly after that that they had "mother in sight" (the ship), +two +>more bits of comm that I will never forget. Most of that self-explanatory. +> +> So we got one of our own back. What a day. I wish we could have +>done more in the rescue but it was almost entirely a Navy and Marine show +>(we and the mud-eagles Marine Aviators + were in the cap) and they kicked ass. So don't bad +>mouth the squids and jarheads too loudly - they put on a good act today and +>we've got a Viper driver back because of it. +> +> I thought you might enjoy hearing the story straight from the CSAR +>Commander of VTR Ops! Hope it wasn't too mushy, but after all, I did cry +>when I watched Old Yeller. That's just the emotional type of guy I am! +> Hope all is well with you guys at your various bases. Drop me a line and +>let me know what's up. Fly safe, check six Watch your back +, and pray for the UN leadership +>to get a clue and let us blow these bastards back into the stone age! Not likely +> +>Zobe Hope that helps... Illya ------------------------------ From: "Robin J. Lee" Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: IUMOTA -ITPOJ On Mon, 17 Jul 1995 tullman.robert@ehccgate.sandoz.com wrote: > >Before I was even in the door, our ADO, Phil "Psycho" Sever told me > >we had positive radio contact, get dressed, step, crank, and taxi > >ASAP - I would meet SLOT in EOR whenever he made it in. We were in > >the air at about 0400L (1+05 from a dead sleep at home) loaded with > >2xGBU-12s, 2 slammers, > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > What are SLAMMERS??? I doubt they were carrying AGM-84E's.. Maybe Mk > 82's, Mavericks, HARMs? Anyone know? I suspect that "slammers" refers to the wingtip AIM-120A AMRAAMs that F-16s over Bosnia are in the habit of carrying. ____________________________________________________________________________ Robin J. Lee amraam@netcom.com Vulture's Row Worldwide Web Page URL: http://webcom.com/~amraam/ ------------------------------ From: "Robin J. Lee" Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: FW: O'Grady Story from St. Louis Buddies Just a few possible additions...? On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Illya Kuryakin did decode as follows: > + T.O. didn't have > +>all the info from Zulu's ISOPREP > > Probably some kind of coded authentication proceedure. ISOPREP = ISOlated Personnel REPort, filled out prior to flight. ("What was your dog's name? What color was your first car?") > +>"Juvats! Juvats! I'm alive!" Then, the 80th TFS "Juvats", 8th TFW, in S. Korea. (Ah-ha, but what's a 'Juvat'?) > +>with a rescue. We were 2 hours before sunrise so it would be daylight but > +>there was concern (rightly so) that word would get out to the press and > +>every SA-6 in the AOR > > Rear Operational Area (?) Area of Rescue? > 2 slammers, > > (?) Again, AMRAAMs, I think. > + (Standard DF SCL). Standard Deny-Flight Stores-Countermeasures-Loadout (???) > +>the cap and staying in touch with Zulu every 15 minutes. A SEAD > > rescue SEAD = Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses. Wild Weasels, more or less. > +> So we got one of our own back. What a day. I wish we could have > +>done more in the rescue but it was almost entirely a Navy and Marine show > +>(we and the mud-eagles > > Marine Aviators Mud-eagles could refer to F-15Es? ____________________________________________________________________________ Robin J. Lee amraam@netcom.com Vulture's Row Worldwide Web Page URL: http://webcom.com/~amraam/ ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:02:04 -0700 Subject: Re: SR 71 Vne and SCRAM Larry, >with all politeness and fond admiration, Thanks Chuck! >how do you run a static test on a SC engine? >Mount it in a M6 tunnel? Correct. The 1958 test was in a Mach 5 tunnel. The high Mach tunnel down at Daingerfield Texas was also used for later tests, and there was another in Maryland that was used (I think the Maryland tunnel was a Mach 7.5 tunnel). > Also, isn`t the required area ratio between >the diffuser and combustion chamber entrance large enough even at 1/2 or 1/3 the >freestreem that the engine would have a HUGE entrance and a little tiny combustion >chamber? >(Stefan Eneceschu, Dan Busuic and I worked on design- It had a combustion chamber >of .012m and a diffuser diameter of 26m! Needless to say, the concept was slightly >reworked.) 26m! That's a heck of an inlet! 2000:1 contraction? Nope, that is way off of what I know about. You must have a typo there somewhere. But even then, it sounds large. A nice summary is in AIAA 92-0001, "Research on Supersonic Combustion" by Fred S. Billig, presented as the Dryden Lectureship on Research paper at the AIAA 30th Aerospace Sciences Meeting Jan. 6-9, 1992, Reno, NV. The above paper describes a runway to orbit scramjet design. The maximum contraction ratio of the inlet is approx. 40:1, at ORBITAL velocities. In the class I took from John D. Anderson and Kevin Bowcutt (NASP nozzle design at NAR) which was the AIAA hypersonics short course, we reviewed a runway to orbit design done by Kevin. The maximum inlet contraction ratio was also 40:1, if I recall correctly. >Also, the SCRAMjet designs I`ve worked on did, indeed, have flame holders in them. > ... >There have been many a long night at UB where fuel droplets and flames have been >examined in the shock tube. (The third floor of Furnas Hall) > ... > There wasn`t enough time for convection,and,the flow can`t >be turbulent so there is no mixing. The flame isn`t hot enough for radiation to >do the rest. >... > >What do you do? Enter the flame holder. It not only adds localized turbulence >for flame propogation and mixing, but causes a weak shock. These shocks >just "explode" a fuel drop to tiny little pieces, increasing combustion efficiency. The point I had made is that in a scramjet you don't have flameholders like in a ramjet. That point is completely true. Ramjet-like flameholders cause excessive shock losses at high Mach numbers. It may have been expedient for your lab excersize however. In the literature, there are other proposed solutions for the low temperature and low combustion efficiency problems that you mention. These solutions are compatible with a very high mach design. I can understand that some of those solutions weren't available to you however. You have also tried to build one, and I have not ... YET! Larry ------------------------------ From: mikeq@primenet.com (Michael Quinlan) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 20:43:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Welcome to skunk-works-digest From the notice sent when I subscribed to this list: >An archive of past messages, plus some interesting GIF images and other info, >is kept on harbor.ecn.purdue.edu for anonymous ftp. Connect to Harbor, >give "anonymous" as the login, and your e-mail address as the password. >Then cd to /pub/skunk-works and look around. The directory /pub/skunk-works doesn't seem to exist at harbor.ecn.purdue.edu. I have found GIFs, old digests, and other information at gaia.ucs.orst.edu, in directory /.ftp.nws.orst.edu/pub/mailing-lists/skunk-works. +--------------------------------------------+ | Michael Quinlan | | mikeq@primenet.com | | http://www.primenet.com/~mikeq | +--------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Brad Hitch Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 23:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: SR 71 Vne and SCRAM >What do you do? Enter the flame holder. It not only adds localized turbulence >for flame propogation and mixing, but causes a weak shock. These shocks >just "explode" a fuel drop to tiny little pieces, increasing combustion efficiency. > It is very unlikely that any liquid fuel would be available, so droplet breakup is a non-problem. The fuel is the only source of cooling for the engine and crew compartment (most of the airframe can be cooled by radiating to a cold environment). Heat loads can be expected to be in the multi-tens of megawatts range. Mixing of the gaseous fuel, while somewhat easier, is still a major headache. Usually you have to exchange pressure drop for mixing, and to achieve the rapid mixing required by the short residence time in a scramjet you may have decreased the total pressure so much that it will be hard to generate a positive net thrust. On the other hand, if you don't mix you won't generate any thrust. ------------------------------ From: Christopher_Swan@inmarsat.org Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 07:23:35 GMT Subject: [none] SUB SKUNK-WORKS CHRIS SWAN ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #357 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).