From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #380 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 10 August 1995 Volume 05 : Number 380 In this issue: Re: Hard Copy 7/4 Area Rule Re: Area Rule Active U2's Adv A/C v. RPV We're back! Re: Adv A/C v. RPV Re: We're back! Southwest Trip Report Re: BQM-145A See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mangan@edac1.kodak.com (Paul Mangan) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 09:02:55 EDT Subject: Re: Hard Copy 7/4 I ran across this as I was cleaning up my mail. Is there a chance that this could be a test vehicle for the JAST ASTOVL? Paul Mangan mangan@kodak.com > From skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Wed Jul 5 13:06:55 1995 > X-Sender: wizard@newpop.sccsi.com > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > Subject: Hard Copy 7/4 > Sender: skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > X-Lines: 34 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> > Content-Length: 1887 > > I am breaking my own code about UFOs, however, on the "Hard Copy" show, 7/4, > they showed a video tape of a "UFO" flying over Nellis AFB, with the > background voices of the radar operators asking "what the hell is that" type > of questions, but with a really calm voice.... The device looked like a > top, then a bottom view looked like a four-fan > hovercraft, like the old flying jeep design. This thing was videotaped from > a distance of 6 miles. It was approximately 5000 feet above the ground. It > traveled around very slow then took off straight up like a rocket. > 1) This had to be an experimental aircraft of some type: unidentified > aircraft, I seriously doubt would be allowed to freely traverse over Nellis > AFB, i.e. I am sure a > F-16 would have appeared. > 2) The controller's voices were pretty calm about the whole thing...I > probably would have running down the road after the thing. > > The piece went on to have interviews with people who supposedly worked at > Nellis, who said this type of thing went on all the time, and it was > probably experiments out of Groom Lake. > > Of course, being a sensational, tabloid type of program, it was inferred > that Groom Lake was applying technology acquired from alien spacecraft to > build new aircraft types, and the reason no one at Nellis got to uptight > about all of this was that it happened all the time. > > Please don't follow this up with any of the Roswell, N.M. crud, etc. > ******************************************************************* > * STRATACOM WORLDNET > *internet: wizard@sccsi.com | SYS/370/390 > *internet: world@ibm.net (int'l)| Systems Software Engineering > *voice: 011-1-713-960-0045 | Data and Tele-Communications > *fax/data: 011-1-713-960-0015 | > *WUI: REGUSHOU | John F. Regus, Consultant > ******************************************************************* > > ------------------------------ From: David Lednicer Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 08:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Area Rule No, no, no! The area rule does not say that the area distribution along the body should be constant! What the area rule says is that two bodies with the same distribution of cross sectional area have the same wave drag. The Sears-Haack bodies have minimum wave drag, so you tailor the area distribution of your configuration to have the same area distribution as a Sears-Haack body. As most configurations can't be made to match the area distribution of a Sears-Haack body, what one does is instead try to smooth the area distribution, getting rid of "joggles", to reduce the wave drag. This is why the 747-300 and -400 has less wave drag than the 747-100 and -200. The extended upper deck smooths the area distribution in this region and reduces the wave drag. The "Coke bottle" fuselages on fighters were introduced to get rid of a peak in the area distribution in the region of the wing. The fuselage's area distribution is reduced so that the wing's area distribution doesn't cause a bulge in the area distribution. The smoothing of localized area distributions have also been used to reduce the drag of jet engine installations, notably on the Convair 990 (I am not refering to the "carrots" on the wing), the Lockheed S-3 and the Airbus A300-600. This concept was pioneered by John Kutney of General Electric. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:15:07 PDT Subject: Re: Area Rule I think you might be confusing two different theorems! Chaz ------------------------------ From: Ron Schweikert Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 10:38:06 -0600 Subject: Active U2's Last night's news (Denver, channel 9) mentioned that "freshly overturned earth" had been spotted by a U2 in Bosnia outside of a stadium after many refugees were rounded up, but only the women and children were let go. The implication was perhaps mass graves for the men. This is the first news report I've heard of the U2 being used for anything other than atmospheric stuff (that is, from the "Big 3" networks)... but then, I don't watch that much TV. Kinda piqued my curiosity on just what we were using in Bosnia for monitoring (and yes, the thought of mass graves also chilled and grieved me). Ron ------------------------------ From: RHOEFELM Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 15:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Adv A/C v. RPV Clarification, I hope: >>"... long endurance, high altitude stealthy unmanned platform and use it to deliver a biological >> weapon " by Ralph H. > Frank Markus says in response >Dumb question but ... how far removed are RPVs from advanced model >airplanes? I assume that there is relatively little magic in the airframe >(assuming that one does not need full-blown stealth technology.) >GPS->computer interfaces are readily available. I'm not sure how much >gee-whiz is required for the engine in order to get useful altitude and >range. I speculate that you are taking RPV to mean small, ultralight type aircraft of the type used for recreation. The criteria stated would, IMO, be an advanced model airplane. I think high altitude , stealthy, and long endurance would be advanced applications. Perhaps I needed specific numbers - high altitude = 25,000 meters +, endurance = 24-48 hours+, stealth = RCS of .01 to .005 m2 (may not be stealthy enough). I'm not an aerospace engineer, so this might be doable with current technology. If this is not an advanced aircraft, engineers, please let me know. As an aside, once one of these was used by a serious party, it would certainly push aircraft detection technology to the limit, as you wouldn't want even one to get through. Thanks for pointing out the GPS computer interface, as it's another example of how one can make brilliant weapons on the cheap. BTW, IMO the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. Ralph S. Hoefelmeyer rhoefelm-cos3@kaman.com or Wolf666 70436.511@compuserve.com Enjoy Nature ... from the top of the food chain. ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 20:11:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: We're back! We are back from our trek to the Southwest, and wish to thank everyone who came to the "Wing And A Prayer", on July 22, to attend Skunkstock '95: - Nora Baker - Eric Chevalier (etech@netcom.com) - Paul McGinnis (TRADER@cup.portal.com) - Peter Merlin (Xelex@aol.com) - Tony Moore - Larry Smith (larry@ichips.intel.com) - Dwight Thibodeaux - Lance Thompson - Byron Weber (chosa@chosa.win.net) - Harold Weber (harold.g.weber@support.com) - Robert (Blacksun@netcom.com) It was great meeting you all, and comparing notes, photos, and information in the Pancho Barnes-esque pub (thanks for the recommendation, Peter). It was too bad we couldn't see Larry's D-21 video on the big screen tv at the "Wing And A Prayer" -- we have to find a way to see it sometime! (The folks at the pub were too jittery, after getting in trouble earlier when another group showed a "classified" Northrop B-2 video, to risk another boycotte from the military.) - -- Kathryn and Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 21:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Adv A/C v. RPV On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, RHOEFELM wrote: > model airplane. I think high altitude , stealthy, and long endurance would be > advanced applications. Perhaps I needed specific numbers - high altitude = > 25,000 meters +, endurance = 24-48 hours+, stealth = RCS of .01 to .005 m2 (may > not be stealthy enough). I'm not an aerospace engineer, so this might be > doable with current technology. If this is not an advanced aircraft, > engineers, please let me know. As an aside, once one of these was used by a I wonder if the model airplane would still suffer heat and noise sig.s though. Of course, one could still land them in Red Square, heh. [Forgive this append to my reply, but would ron@habu, and Al Dobyns please drop me a line? Your email is bouncing.] regards, BaDge ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 21:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: We're back! I presume, Ahem, you took group pix, and will be posting the .gifs ASAP! (see my note to you via your webpage once you get caught up) regards, BaDge ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 22:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Southwest Trip Report This report is not 100% skunky, but here it goes anyway (at least there is no mention of UFOs). :) We are glad to be back, but we had a lot of fun on our trek through the Southwest. The first stop we made was in Amarillo, Texas, to see Rick Pavek, , who was a great host. He gave us a tour of the area, including the small "Shelby Kritser Aviation & Space Museum and Restoration Facility", located at the Tradewind Airport. They had only a few items, a list of which can soon be found on our www page, which includes all aerospace related-sites, museums, their exhibits and other aircraft that we saw during our trip. Later we went to the Hotsy Totsy shop, a place that sells nothing but hot pepper sauces, salsas, candy, etc. We haven't yet dared try the bottle of "Habanero Hot Sauce From Hell: The World's Hottest Hot Sauce -- Beyond Hot" which we got there. Kathryn's birthday and the 50th anniversary of the first explosion of the atomic bomb, July 16, started early, at 4:45 a.m. We arrived at the gate of the White Sands Missile Range, in New Mexico, the night before, and camped there with other people who had already arrived. By the time they opened the gates, at 5:00 a.m., there was a line of headlights that extended back for miles through the desert darkness, waiting to get in (the area is open to the public only twice a year, and of course, this was a special event). We ran into 'Agent X' (Mark Farmer) and Tom Mahood , his wife Jerri and sister Heather. Peter Merlin was covering the event for the "Aerotech News and Review", and we talked a bit about "unusual black triangular aircraft in the night sky". The media was there in full force -- particularly Japanese. Reporters were everywhere, flipping open their notebooks at the utterance of an opinion. And there were a lot of opinion givers: an Indian woman spoke about what was done to her lands, a Japanese woman talked about what happened to her lands. The Rainbow Nation/hippie crowd was there, singing, beating drums, and chanting. They hugged each other, formed a big ring holding hands, and members of the ring took turns saying how awful atomic science and technology was. Some older protesters (with straps bearing slogans wrapped around their foreheads) were escorted from the area for pouring some red liquid on the ground zero monument, which military personnel were guarding. There was an atomic advocate there who wore a foam rubber mushroom on top of his hat -- probably pretty unpopular with the chanting and hugging folks. This took place, miles inside restricted access military land, within a fenced area less than a mile square, where the test blast occured. The ground zero monument, a triangular pyramid, about 15' tall, 8' wide, composed of dark, fire-blasted, ominous-looking basalt stone, stood at the lowest point, to the right of center. On the left, part of the blast crater was preserved; covered with a roof which had windows to peek through. Around the perimeter, attached to the high chain-link fence, were photos showing different stages of the project. After we left Trinity Site, we went to through volcanic fields to a petroglyph site (where ancient people had carved glyphs into stone), and to the White Sands National Monument (miles of high, snow-white dunes, so clean that you can run barefooted with abandon). We could not visit Holoman AFB, where most of the F-117s are based, because their public tour is always on Wednesdays -- and we didn't want to wait three days during their rainy season. We were chased away from White Sands by a Sand/Thunderstorm that blew in while we were sitting on the dunes. On our way to California, we didn't visit the White Sands Missile Range Museum, but we stopped outside the Yuma NAS, in Arizona, to see the planes fly. We found an airplane-groupie already parked nearby: in her late 40s, dressed in a tube top and short shorts, dancing around, and waving to every plane that flew overhead. She also waved at the several cars that honked as they drove by (she is something of a fixture there). We passed through the extensive, irrigated, agricultural fields of Southern California, and over high mountain passes to San Diego. We spent a day walking through the lovely harbor area (Seaport Village), saw a lot of aerial and naval action at the nearby island military base, and walked through the renovated Gaslamp District (formerly a notorious red light district, now all gentrified). We also visited the San Diego Air Museum, and they literally had to throw us out when they closed. A couple of days later, after visiting an art festival at Laguna Beach, it was back to the desert, on the edge of Lancaster, to "Skunkstock '95". It was held at the "Wing And A Prayer" -- a pilot and aircraft industry worker's pub -- which is filled with aircraft memorabilia, and is reminiscient of Pancho Barnes' bar which was featured in "The Right Stuff". More than a dozen of us stayed there for hours, having such fun that the time flew by (oh, such a pun!). Larry Smith brought lots of nice photos of the M-21/D-21 restoration project in Seattle. Peter Merlin showed many of his expedition photographs, including some from the latest F-117 crash site near Zuni. Paul McGinnis brought a lot of maps and other material about government secrecy and black projects, including his newest paper about the Boeing 'Senior Citizen'. Hal Weber , there with Nora Baker (who worked at L-1011 TriStar flight tests), told intriguing stories of his days as Flight Test Engineer at the Skunk Works, working on the first A-12 (121/60-6924) and the first SR-71A (2001/64-17950). Lance Thompson, who wrote the article about Peter Merlin and Tony Moore in the March 1995 issue of the Smithsonian Air&Space magazine, was kind enough to take a group photograph of those who stayed till the end. Maybe we can later post a gif/jpg of it on our www page. Afterward, we went with Paul McGinnis and Dwight Thibodeaux past the CIA's and General Atomics' UAV test site near El Mirage, to take a look at the restricted-access Lockheed RCS (Radar Cross Section) facility at Hellendale, and see if there was anything interesting going on. We stood on a hill in the desert, looking through binoculars, getting excited at any sign of activity, until it was too dark to see, then we retreated to town for dinner. The next day, we went to the open house at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena. They had a nice facility, and did a great job with the exhibits showing what they had done, and planned for the future. We were very happy to snag an Internet connection from a demonstrator there, and check our email! Later, at Santa Maria, we checked into the motel which was serving as the news center for the upcoming Lockheed Launch Vehicle 1 (LLV-1) launch, taking place later in the week at Vandenberg AFB. We had gotten press accreditation before we left, so we got to be part of the media group. Early the next morning, we got a large press package (which included an explanatory notebook, video tape, publicity photos, etc.), then rode a bus to Vandenberg AFB. Peter Merlin was there too, again covering the event for "Aerotech News and Review". Some speakers greeted us: one of them was Russel "Rusty" L. Schweikart, Apollo Astronaut, now Executive Vice President of CTA Commercial Systems Inc., who built the GEMstar-1 satellite. The launch structure was enormous -- built for the Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL, aka KH-10), which was cancelled, and later modified for Space Shuttle launches (which never took place there) -- and the little LLV-1, a commercial launch vehicle, was rather dwarfed by it all. We went up close to it, and it had so many company logos on it that it looked like a race car. There were some problems with the vehicle though, and it was a tense press conference that evening, while we waited for final word on whether there would be a launch the next day or not. Reporters from three news stations were outside the room speculating, nervously, on live tv, what the problem was. When the call came, it was bad news: the launch would be delayed for at least a couple of weeks. Oh well. We left for San Francisco the next day. What a town! Lots of high hills, beautiful buildings, and all that wonderful water from which cool breezes blow. We went to Fisherman's Wharf, watched the Sea Lions loafing around on pier 39 (it was given up to them in 1991, when they started showing up in droves), and walked along docks where lots of small fishing boats were docked. We saw the filming of a segment of C/Net Central, a tv show, and got the host's autograph (Gina St. John). We rode up and down those incredible hills while hanging off the side of cable cars, and visited China Town. There were entertainers on almost every street corner, all with cans ready to receive cash. In the morning, there were many people doing Tai Chai on the wharves, and at Haight Ashbury Park. We visited a snooty art gallery, too. After we left San Francisco, it was back to the desert again, where we went to see the wind farm at Mojave, and made a short visit at the Blackbird Airpark at Palmdale. The temperature hovered around 113 F -- the first extreme heat we had on the trip. We spent a bunch of money at the Skunk Works Employee Shop, and got some really cheap Lockheed videos, too -- thanks for the recommendation, Robert . Andreas went to take a look at the brush fires near Lancaster, while Kathryn relaxed in the cool motel. The next day, we visited the Blackbird Airpark's Open House, where we saw Hal and Nora again, and met Tony Landis, NASA and black aircraft photogapher and Doug Nelson, the Director/Curator of the Air Force Test Center Museum at Edwards AFB. Andreas got several autographs of current SR-71 pilots (Larry Brown, Gary Luloff, Tom McCleary, Terry Pappas), an SR-71 RSO (Jim Greenwood), two early A-12/SR-71 pilots (Col. Tom Pugh, 'Dutch 61' and Bob Riedenauer, 'Dutch 62') and some others, in his "SR-71 Pilots Manual". We spent a couple of days in Tucson, going to the Pima Air Museum, and to art and historical museums at the University of Arizona. Our last stop before going directly home was Sant Fe. It was colorful, filled with interesting artsy shops (the things you can do with the cactus form!), and historical structures. Kathryn met a Peruvian artist who was an excellent salesman -- he really knew how to connect with someone looking at his work. He discussed his carving methods and the meaning of the images which he engraved on the shells of gourds, until it struck a chord, and she had to have one. Ok, we didn't go quite directly home, but stopped at a few aviation-related places along the way: a drive-through at dusk through the beautiful Air Force Academy facility in Colorado, and a visit to the Strategic Air Command Museum in Nebraska; but we are back now! Our kitties are delighted, too. - -- Kathryn and Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 22:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: BQM-145A On Tuesday, August 1, 1995 Byron Weber wrote: >Does anyone know the statis of the BQM-145A, a UAV developed by >Teledyne Ryan? Is this a Tier or something else? In June 1994 the >New York Times reported it crashed. The Teledyne Ryan Aeronautics (TRA) BQM-145A "JUAV-MR" (Joint Unmanned Aerial Vehicle - Medium Range), was originally developed from the TRA Model 324 'Scarab' (build for Egypt), in response to the JSCAMPS (Joint Services Common Airframe Multiple Purpose System) requirement in the late 1980s. The new JPO (Joint Project Office, established in 1988) was looking into several different Joint services UAV/RPVs: - the SR-UAV (Short Range UAV) or JUAV-SR; - the MR-UAV (Medium Range UAV) or JUAV-MR; - the LR-UAV (Long Range UAV) or JUAV-LR; - and several Endurance UAVs (which developed into the Tier series of UAVs); I don't know what became of the SR-UAV and LR-UAV (which might have been canceled by now), but the MR-UAV was finally procured as BQM-145A (TRA Model 350). It is about 18 feet long, with a wingspan of about 11 feet. The (a little bit smaller) Proof-Of-Concept vehicle (TRA Model 350 POC, which was originally designated Model 410B for deception) and the three full-scale engineering and development vehicle (YBQM-145A) were made of composites, produced by Scaled Composites, but the 25 (or 23 ?) production BQM-145A have a conventional metal structure. They are designed to be carried by medium sized fighters, like F/A-18s and fly tactical reconnaissance missions, carrying the ATARS (Advanced Tactical Airborne Reconnaissance System), with subsequent parachute assisted landing on airbags or by MARS (Mid-Air Retrieval System) with either round or steerable parafoil canopies. A little timetable: Summer 1985 - USN issues RFI (Request For Information) for a mid-range vehicle, called midi-rpv -- TRA offers basic Model 324; 1988 - JPO is created; 08/28/1988 - First captive flight on an Flight Systems Inc. operated F-4C from Mojave; 10/22/1988 - First free flight of Model 350 POC from an Flight Systems Inc. operated F-4C-21-MC (registered 'N420FS', serial '63-7689') from Mojave, with subsequent parachute recovery; 05/05/1989 - TRA receives interim contract for MR-UAV development from NASC (Naval Air Systems Command): $200,000; 06/30/1989 - TRA receives FSED (Full-Scale Engineering and Development) contract for MR-UAV development, including 3 YBQM-145A FSD vehicles: $69.6 million; 12/ /1989 - PDR (Preliminary Design Review) of Model 350 by NAVAIR; 08/29/1990 - 10th evaluation flight of Model 350 POC from an Avtel Flight Test operated F-4D from Mojave, to demonstrate a MARS retrieval by a USN SH-60 SeaHawk, while the RPV was equipped with a steerable parafoil; 06/13/1991 - Supplemental Agreement (for UAV-MR) redefined the contract and added $11 million, with an increase in the ceiling price to over $180 million with increased flight testing and deliveries of 25 (or 23 ?) BQM-145A through early 1996; 09/ /1991 - Roll-out of first YBQM-145A -- painted scarlet red; 04/12/1992 - First captive flight of YBQM-145A under an Avtel operated F-4D from Michael Army Air Field, located at the U.S. Army's Dugway Proving Ground in Utah, near Hill AFB; 05/01/1992 - Second captive flight of YBQM-145A under Avtel operated F-4D; 05/05/1992 - First powered free flight of YBQM-145A from an Avtel operated F-4D-28-MC (registered 'N402AV', serial '65-0696'); Most of the information comes from the following book: "Fireflies and other UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles)", sub-titled: "The Sequel to Teledyne Ryan's Lightning Bugs", written by William Wagner and William P. Sloan, published by Aerofax Inc. 1992, ISBN 0-942548-54-X (Softcover) ISBN 0-942548-55-8 (Hardcover) - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #380 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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