From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #393 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 23 August 1995 Volume 05 : Number 393 In this issue: Thule Air base greenland Bell Aircraft Re: Pine Bush Sightings Re: Aerospace List? Pine Brush Sightings Re: Su-35 Antigravity in Jane's See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: acobley@mic.dundee.ac.uk (Andy Cobley) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 95 12:07:19 BST Subject: Thule Air base greenland Might be a tad off subject (for now !) but I am looking for info regarding Thule Air base in greenland, what types of things do they do there ? andy C Andy Cobley acobley@mic.dundee.ac.uk http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk ------------------------------ From: mangan@edac1.kodak.com (Paul Mangan) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 95 08:08:38 EDT Subject: Bell Aircraft Has anyone seen or does anyone know of a good book on Bell Aircraft that would cover the 1950-1960 period. Yes I know Bell Aircraft is now Bell Aerosystems/Bell AeroSpace/ A Textron company and I know that many of Bell's former employee's started Lewiston Electronics eventually Sierra Research but I would like to see it in writing. :) By the way I drove by the Niagara Falls plant and was sad to see that Larry Bell's apartment is deteriorating and rusting away. I remember it with all the plants and people walking around on the patio. The whole facility is run down and is being split up into mini-companies/facilities. Paul mangan@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: Tim Ottinger Date: Tue, 22 Aug 95 8:26:47 CDT Subject: Re: Pine Bush Sightings Please forgive Northrop-y rather than skunky post: [clipped] :extended even to the visual spectrum since it was difficult to :estimate velocity, altitude and shape. I noticed the same. I figured it was the tailess shape or matte black RAM that made it hard to figure speed. In retrospect, it was probably the shortage of noise and my inexperience as much as anything else. You know, that raises a really interesting question: How much of the jet noise comes from detonation and how much from exhaust? I noticed at Dayton this year that the B2 (while sporting a VERY distinctive shape) was silent until passing, and it seemed to make about the same level of sound as the Bud Lite MicroJet Leo L. was flying. It's a mighty quiet plane. I was guessing that the noise we heard was so quiet because of the exhaust being baffled (cooled) at the outlets, and that this quieted the ignition noise. I was also amazed that the B2 could bank 90 degrees (or so it seemed from my vantage point). Isn't that odd for a plane of its size? Still, the shape when it passed overhead was completely unmistakable in daylight. Was T.C.'s spotting at night? - -- Tim - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | You aren't an expert until you've done the work. | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Tim Ottinger tottinge@csci.csc.com (217)351-8508x2420 | | CSC CIS Champaign, IL - The Silicon Prairie " -7420(fax) | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 12:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Aerospace List? This is a repost, because it seems that the original one got stuck somewhere, and never reached the list: On Thursday, August 17, 1995, Adrian Thurlow asked about the Aerospace List. This list is a mailing list dedicated to Aeronautics and Aerospace History. You can subscribe to the Aerospace List by sending the following message to the listserver at the National Air and Space Museum, of the Smithsonian Institution: subscribe AEROSP-L If you want to submit something, send it to: . If you have a problem, you can write to: , and Barbara Weitbrecht, the list owner/administrator, will help you. If you want to get back issues, they are available via listserv, and the exact procedure is explained when you get your subscription confirmation. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Tue, 22 Aug 95 10:03:06 EST Subject: Pine Brush Sightings On Tue, 22 Aug 1995, Terry Colvin wrote: > The only way I could explane the airplane not making any noise until it > passed over is that it is going Mach1+, In which case the airplane > arives before the sound. But it would make a lot of noise unless it had > an active electromagnetic noise canceller(or something like that.) Terry, I have already considered the possibility of a plane moving at Mach +, however that explanation does not square with the speed of the craft. It was moving very very slowly, and it was just above the trees. Although we are in a beautiful farm valley, the visibility on a clear day is at least three miles, however, the tree line is not more than a quarter mile away. A plane going at Mach speed would only be visible for a few seconds. I have witnessed these craft hover without moving, move very slowly, turn on a dime, actually, they turn on their vertical axis without banking, I have seen them turn completely on their side to show the bottom of the craft broadside, and I have seen the craft bank sharply and appear to turn in the wrong direction, ie., bank on the "right side" and turn actually to the left. On Tue, 22 Aug 1995, Terry Colvin wrote: > I have heard of such prototype devices that produce a sound that > nutralizises(that isn't how you spell it) another sound. I believe > the TV show "Next Step" did a piece on it. As far as the sound effects go, I have witnessed the craft flow so low that you could practically throw a rock, or certainly you could hit it with a rock from a slingshot, and there is absolutely **NO** sound. I have witnessed the craft pass over our position, and when it was in front of us going away from the observers, appear to turn its sound on of what sounds like a jet engine. Only one problem, the pitch of it appears to be increasing as though it was coming toward us. However, contrary to the effect one would observe with conventional aircraft, where the pitch would sound like it was going up, the craft would not show a corresponding increase in apparent speed. I have also heard from multiple witnesses that the light from the craft appears to affect cameras differently. I assure you, what I witnessed was no conventional jet. An additional signature is that there is no contrail, no smell of JP4 or JP5 from the close encounters, the sound is not deafening, but is low enough to hold conversations while it is flying overhead. I hope this is some food for thought. Marc Whitford ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 14:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Su-35 On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, Ian Deeley wrote: > > At 16:37 20/08/95 -0400, you wrote: > > > > If my memory doesn't fake me... I saw a picture of Su-35 model in > >AW&ST about 2 years ago. I don't know if they built it already or not > >(because of the military budged cut in Russia). The mission of the Su-35 > >is figther, very similar mission of the F-16. Look like a doble delta > >wing with canard (the shape is very similar to the Sweden J-37 Viggen). > >This is a one engine type aircraft too. I believe is a not a long-range > >interceptor like the Su-27 rather than short-range light-weight figter. > > > As I understand it, the SU-35 is a SU-27 derivative, featuring the > canard/foreplanes of the "sea flanker", vectored thrust capability, & > advanced FBW. The airframe is identical to the SU-27, & therefore is > twin engined. > I'm almost certain that the SU-29 & SU-31 are prop driven > specialist aerobatic aircraft, one of them is a two seater, the other > solo. Which one is which, I'm afraid I couldn't tell you! > > ttfn, > Ian. > > > Ian Deeley > Computer services "..even with an I.Q of 6000, > School of Engineering it's still brown trouser > University of Sussex / ^ \ time!!" > Falmer, Brighton ---(.)==<-.->==(.)--- Holly R.D > U.K > '88 ZX-10 Mag Sport, BMF, Ogri #100, Tufty club. > > You and Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl were right and I was wrong. I was confuse between Su-37 and Su-35. I just check in my reference. Live Long and Prosper Su Wei-Jen wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Tue, 22 Aug 95 17:05:39 EST Subject: Antigravity in Jane's FYI, the following was extracted from a now defunct (surprised!) UFO list: "All those interested in advanced propulsion concepts should check out Jane's Defence Weekly, 10 June 1995. An article discusses anti-gravity schemes and shows drawings of sauceroid vehicles from British Aerospace among others. Area 51 is mentioned, as well as an unclassified paper done for the USAF by Science Applications International Corp. in 1990. The subject was [Electric Propulsion], a[n] euphemism for anti-gravity according to Jane's. Michael Flora" ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #393 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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