From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #398 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 27 August 1995 Volume 05 : Number 398 In this issue: A final note on relativity,,,we are way off charter. Re: SR-71 over France Stealth Jet Premiere Cancelled Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 04:09:03 PDT Subject: A final note on relativity,,,we are way off charter. Well, I don`t really know where to start. I would humbly ask that those who challenge Einstein first consult physics texts before posting here as experts. (a politically correct flame?) The answer is this. If you run fast enough, you can hold a twenty-foot long pole, run through a 10 foot wide barn, and shut both doors while you are inside! This has been proven by investigation of particals called muons. Muons are created in the Earth`s upper atmoshere. The neat thing about muons is that they exist for an extrememly short time. So short, infact,that they should only be able to travel a few hundred yards, even though they are at relativistic velocities. But, they can be detected at the top of tall mountains! Why?,Because of their extremely high velocity, the distance they travel is shortened! Well, without a lot of algebra you`ll have to take my word on it. This is called the Lorentz effect. Distance is a function of velocity. Think about it. We use terms like miles per hour or meters per second. What we really mean is that velocity is a relationship between time and space. I`ll use Einsteins famous "gedanken" experiment as a illustration. If you are in moving box car and throw a ball at the ceiling, the ball moves straight up at the velocity you throw it (neglecting gravity). If the box car has glass sides, to someone standing outside, the velocity is the square root of the sum of the squares of the trian`s velocity and the throwing velocity. So- velocity is relative! Another big problem with "laymen" understanding the speed of light as an absolute image is that people talk of a "light barrier" like the sound barrier. They are comepletely different. The sound barrier is a mechanical barrier that arises do to gas dynamics, and chemical kinetics. The light barrier is an energy barrier. You just can`t go any faster. Period. Now, someone will reply with some "new age" physics and say I`m all wet. You`ll have to look at the math and make your own conclusions. Pay careful attention to assumptions or terms like "exotic matter"! Back to light from the Sun. To us in Earth the trip takes about 7 minutes. But if we could ride a photon from the sun, the trip would be instantaneous. Whew, thats hard to take, aint it! Since I`m comepletly off Skunk Works charter now, I`ll ask one question and then leave this topic and get back to propulsion matters, since thats the only thing I`m really qualified to speak on. If the Universe is expanding from the Big Bang, and started as a singularity, then isn`t the predicted Big Crunch in violation of the second law of thermodynamics? It seems that if the universe crunched back to a singularity - a completely reversible process has occured in nature. That being the case, airplanes will start dropping out of the sky at this moment, since the laws we assumed to design them are wrong! (Aerodynamics being nothing more than a highly specialized offshoot of thermodynamics.) Chuck Smith "Aerospace Engineer to the Stars" ------------------------------ From: czbb062 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 12:04:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: SR-71 over France On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, David Windle wrote: BTW just in case there's anyone who still hasn't read the Ben Rich and Leo Janos book "Skunk Works"..imagine you'll never know what the SR-71's Diplomatic Clearance Number was whilst flying over France on the way back from Beirut to Mildenhall:) Couldn't be anything but soixante-neuf. Michael Eisenstadt (czbb062@access.texas.gov) ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 14:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Stealth Jet Premiere Cancelled MOSCOW (AP) -- Russia's new stealth fighter jet dodged public attention on Friday when nervous military officials abruptly canceled its premiere at the nation's largest air show. The debut of the MiG stealth fighter, known in the West as I-42, was expected to be the most dramatic event of the weeklong Moscow International Air Show at the formerly top-secret Zhukovsky air base. The show features some 400 companies from 23 countries. The aircraft has gone through pre-flight tests at the base, which has Europe's longest runway at 3.4 miles. But spectators had to settle for watching more standard fighter jets shrieking overhead at low altitudes as the MAPO-MiG company held its day at the show Friday. ``The Defense Ministry decided not to put the aircraft on display, being reluctant to reveal its advanced design,'' Anatoly Belosvet, the company's first deputy director, said at a news conference. MiG claims the aircraft is superior not only to the operational U.S. F-117 stealth fighter, which took part in the Gulf War, but even to a more advanced F-22, which is still far from production. ``Our fighter is much more versatile, having strike capabilities, unlike its U.S. counterpart which is only good for air combat,'' Belosvet told The Associated Press. ``It also has a longer range.'' - ----------------------<>--------------------- regards, BaDge ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 19:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS Mike Rich, Ben Rich's son, asked me to ask the Skunk Works mailing list subscribers for a favor: The publisher, Little, Brown & Company, of his father's book, "Skunk Works", is working on the paperback edition, and Mike Rich is asking us to help with correcting the photo caption errors, and other possible typos and mistakes. I included a summary of real and perceived errors, posted by me and Joe Donoghue in January 1995 on this list. If anyone knows about additional errors, please post to the list, and send also a copy to Michael Rich . Errors in Photo Captions: ========================= Second page, top right: - ----------------------- "Colonel Al Whitley, Stealth squadron commander, following the first air attack on Baghdad during Operation Desert Storm in 1991." * Photo made at Nellis AFB, April 1, 1991, after return from Saudi Arabia. (Note mission marks and nose art on front F-117A). Third page, top left: - --------------------- "U-2 pilot Francis Gary Powers as a Skunk Works pilot in 1970, following his release from Soviet prison." * The CIA U-2F in the background is in a configuration that places this photo in the 1962-1965 timeframe. (Small sugar scoop, medium length dorsal canoe). Third page, middle: - ------------------- "A U-2 being assembled at the Skunk Works in the late 1950s." * Photo shows U-2R, being assembled at Palmdale (Plant 42, Site 7), in the late 1960s or even later. (Note also the rather modern clothing of the workers.) Fourth page, middle: - -------------------- "U-2 photo showing Soviet missile launchers at Cuba airfield during the Cuban missile crisis." * Photo shows airfield with MiG-15, MiG-19, MiG-21 and other aircraft, but no missiles. Fifth page, third from top: - --------------------------- "Squadron of Blackbirds operating out of Nellis Air Force base, near Las Vegas, in the mid-1970s." * Photo shows group portrait of the remaining SR-71 at Beale AFB, February 1990. (It is true, though, that Nellis AFB is near Las Vegas.) :) Fifth page, bottom: - ------------------- "Blackbird production line at the Skunk Works. In the mid-1970s, they produced a new Blackbird every month." * Should read: "in the mid-1960s". Sixth page, top: - ---------------- "SR-71 Blackbird rolling down a highway en route to permanent display at the air museum at Beale Air Force base in central California." * Photo shows SR-71 being towed to display at another site - not Beale AFB. Text Errors - a) "Skunk Works aircraft": ======================================== Talking about the U-2, page 125: - -------------------------------- "It could fly nine hours, travel six thousand miles, and reach heights above seventy thousand feet." * At a steady 400 knots, nine hours equates to about 3600 nm. or 4300 statute miles. * The U-2F, with in-flight refueling, could manage 6000 miles but not in nine hours. * Likewise for the U-2R/TR-1 on internal fuel. Talking about Frank Powers, page 144: - ------------------------------------- "The first group of six U-2 pilots recruited from the SAC fighter squadrons showed up at the Skunk Works in the fall of 1956 wearing civilian clothes and carrying phony IDs." [...] "I remember talking to one of them, a nice, dark-haired fellow with a soft West Virginia accent who asked me a few technical questions about the air intakes. I would instantly recognize him four years later when his picture was plastered on the front page of every newspaper in the world as Francis Gary Powers." * The first group of pilots did not include Powers. He was in the second group. * Ben Rich must mean Fall of _1955_ for the first group because they were already trained and deployed by May 1956. * Powers' second group began training in Spring of 1956. Talking about U-2 ECM equipment and China shootdowns, page 163: - --------------------------------------------------------------- "One day three of four U-2s were shot down, and the sole survivor told CIA debriefers that he was amazed to be alive because he forgot to turn on his black box. To Kelly, that clinched the case. But we'll never really know." * There was never more than one U-2 lost to any cause(s) on a single day. The closest was the loss of one each on consecutive days at Laughlin AFB in 1957. * It was exceedingly rare to have two U-2s flying over China on the same day. * And the speculation on the previous page regarding possible missile homing on the U-2's tail jammer is rather far-fetched for a variety of reasons. Talking about RoCAF U-2 operations, page 180: - --------------------------------------------- "On one of the training flights from the Ranch, a Taiwanese pilot flamed out over Cortez, Colorado, and was forced to glide into a small county airport around dusk." * This flight originated at Laughlin AFB. The Chinese pilots were not trained at the Ranch (Groom Lake). Talking about the YF-12A / GAR-9 (AIM-47) missile testing, page 236: - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Our testing was superlative twelve hits out of thirteen attempts -- firing from all heights and ranges." * Jay Miller in "Skunk Works - The First 50 Years" says six out of seven. Talking about the M-21 Tagboard, page 266: - ------------------------------------------ "On June 16, 1966, we attempted the third test launch of the drone piggybacking on the SR-71 Blackbird, a two-seater. Bill Parks was our pilot, and in the second cockpit was Ray Torick, the launch operator. The Blackbird took off and headed for the California coast, just north of L.A., to launch over the naval tracking station at Point Mugu. The flight was a dandy. the drone flew 1600 nautical miles, making eight programmed turns while taking pictures of the Channel Islands, San Clemente, and Santa Catalina from 92,000 feet at 4000-plus mph." * The launch aircraft was a M-12, two seat version of the A-12. * And "4000-plus mph" (!!!) is not believable. (Rather 2000-plus mph). Text Errors - b) "aircraft he didn't like": =========================================== Talking about Operation El Dorado Canyon, page 96: - -------------------------------------------------- "The raid was carried out using Navy fighter-bombers off carriers, and Kaddafi escaped with his life because Libyan defenses picked up the attackers coming in time to sound the alarm and several bombs aimed directly at Kaddafi's quarters missed their target because the attacking aircraft were forced to evade incoming missiles and flak. The F-117A would have attacked with surprise and placed that smart bomb right on the guy's pillow." * Grumman A-6E Intruders are not "fighter-bombers" but "attack aircraft" or "light bombers". * He also ignored the F-111Fs from Lakenheath, which used the same kind of "smart bomb" and laser designator, the F-117A would have used. * Not to mention the F-117As first real mission (in Panama), which was by no means flawless (due to several, not airframe related problems). Talking about the XB-70 Valkyrie, page 227: - ------------------------------------------- "The Air Force was already spending millions developing the North American B-70, a huge triangular-shaped monster, capable of Mach 2 speeds." [...] "Kelly [...] told LeMay flat out that from what he had seen of the plans the B-70 would be obsolete before it was even off the drawing board." [...] "The B-70 had six engines to the Blackbird's two. Our airplane was nearly twice as fast, but LeMay told Kelly he didn't know beans about bombers, to stick to spy planes and mind his own business." * The XB-70 was Mach 3 capable, same speed as SR-71. * The SR-71 is not two times faster than Mach 2. Talking about the Northrop F-20, page 307: - ------------------------------------------ "They had lost more than $100 million on that twin-engine fighter, called the F-20, built at the administration's suggestion as a so-called nonprovocative fighter, which meant one that was made to be sold to friendly countries but designed to be vulnerable to our own state-of-the-art interceptors." * The F-20 is a single engine light-weight fighter, equivalent to the F-16, and the loss was mainly due to export restrictions from the U.S. government. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #398 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).