From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #399 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Monday, 28 August 1995 Volume 05 : Number 399 In this issue: Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS the big crunch subs Re: Pine Bush Sighting Re: Pine Bush Sighting See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FR8Driver@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 08:19:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS Al Whitley was actually the Wing Commander of the stealth fighters (in charge of the entire collection of Fighter Squadrons and their associated support units during the war and afterwards), and not a "squadron commander." He was also the first non-test pilot to fly the F-117. Joe Vincent/FR8Driver@aol.com ------------------------------ From: David Windle Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:41:49 Subject: Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS Chap 10-P.248 of my Warner Paperback version refers to MAD as *Massive* Assured Destruction instead of Mutually Assured Destruction - though the index is correct. D ------------------------------ From: "Frank Schiffel, Jr." Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 12:31:57 CDT Subject: the big crunch OK, having studied astronomy, the big crunch depends on the amount of mass in the universe that will slow down the expansion and cause it to collapse back to a singularity. The big question is is there enough mass to cause this expansion from the big bang to reverse itself. Its believed by all legitimate astronomers that the universe is not steady state, i.e. 'just there', but it will expand forever leaving a lot of black holes and burned out stars that did not have the mass to go through the stellar evolution to a black hole. Or, it will collapse upon itself back to a singularity. In anycase, this is way beyond the lifetime of this mailing list. Maybe not, but I'd hate to have to run this list after its been around for a few billion years. As far as the FTL posts, remember, engineering is APPLIED science. I haven't seen a workable fusion reactor yet. If that can't be engineered, all the rest of the stuff about FTL and non-chemical engines is still a pipe dream. Just think of all the DoD projects that were cancelled that were on the drawing boards...some were really technically sweet. ------------------------------ From: "Frank Schiffel, Jr." Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 12:51:42 CDT Subject: subs boy this is off topic. START and SALT were concerned with the strategic nuclear weapons systems. So, these options as long as they have conventional weapons (and there will probably be an inspection to show that the SLBM tubes have been removed) and are not nuclear are outside of any treaty. This is one reason that the Navy got rid of the TALM-N variant and instead went to all the of the conventional uses of the Tomahawk, they'd rather get funding and support for a cruise missile that wasn't covered by a treaty that get caught up in who has the nuclear weapons on board. Granted the policy has been to never discuss nuclear weapons stowage, if you got rid of all nuclear capabilities except for a distinct platform like an SLBM (and there have been people who have said that the Navy has done that) then problems with extending a naval presence does not have to deal with all the hassles of nuclear weapons being on board. Contrasted to most USAF aircraft that are nuclear capable. An incoming TALM is now known to be non nuclear. ------------------------------ From: Infostructure S & T (via RadioMail) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 15:23:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Pine Bush Sighting A friend forwarded your digest to me. I had asked him several years ago for information about something that I saw that seems to be very much like this. I can't pin the date down any better than to say it was late summer of 1987. (After we bought the spa, but before we started construction of the roof over it.) Four of us saw it the first night, and three saw it about 2 nights later. Both times, it flew almost directly over our house (thus giving a poor perspective to see anything except outline as it flew over us), headed from southwest to northeast. The shape seemed to be a delta wing, but very dark, so we weren't sure. The sound preceeded the overflight by at most 15-20 seconds, just enough time to say "What the hell is that noise?". We heard it considerably longer after it flew over. It seemed to be very close to the ground, but we had no reference points so could not say anything except that. It also seemed to be very slow, but again the lack of reference points keeps me from saying anything more. It was in sight from the spa for about 5-10 seconds. (Vertical field of view from the spa was about 100-120 degrees at that time, because of the structure around it). The second time, we managed to get outside in time to see it fly over our neighbors house (1/4 mile away). It was no more than 20-30 degrees above the horizon by the time we saw it. (We live in Chimayo, New Mexico, a small town with more cows than people.) We didn't see anything except straight level flight, so have no data about performance characteristics. The thing it most reminded all of us of was the opening scene in Star Wars. It was truly impressive. Several years of looking at various pictures and models led us to say that the thing it most resembled was (I'm not too sure of this designation after lo these many years) a Y-71. However, a friend of ours said that only 2 of those had ever been built, and one crashed and the other retired many years ago. That's all the information I can recall after 8 years, except to say that we continue to wonder just what it was. I'd be interested in any more definitive information. Was the B-2 flying then? Seems to me that it was, but I'm not sure. Pat Pat McGee ist@radiomail.net P.O.Box 670, Chimayo, NM 87522 (505) 351-4039 ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 22:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Pine Bush Sighting > A friend forwarded your digest to me. I had asked him several years ago for > information about something that I saw that seems to be very much like > this. I downloaded a series of photos of the "Pine Bush sightings", and what they showed was a light pattern identical to that of a single-engine Cessna, or similar small GA airplane. They show two white lights in the center, and small red/green wingtip lights. Remarkably unspectacular... > I can't pin the date down any better than to say it was late summer of > 1987. > Four of us saw it the first night, and three saw it about 2 > nights later. Both times, it flew almost directly over our house (thus > giving a poor perspective to see anything except outline as it flew over > us), headed from southwest to northeast. The shape seemed to be a delta > wing, but very dark, so we weren't sure. > (We live in Chimayo, New Mexico, a small town with more cows than people.) > We didn't see anything except straight level flight, so have no data > about performance characteristics. An F-117A doing some night training could be a likely possibility. > The thing it most reminded all of us of was the opening scene in Star > Wars. It was truly impressive. Similar things have been said about the 117. > Several years of looking at various pictures and models led us to say > that the thing it most resembled was (I'm not too sure of this designation > after lo these many years) a Y-71. However, a friend of ours said that only > 2 of those had ever been built, and one crashed and the other retired many > years ago. Sounds like you are talking about the XB-70. > That's all the information I can recall after 8 years, except to say that > we continue to wonder just what it was. I'd be interested in any more > definitive information. Was the B-2 flying then? Seems to me that it was, > but I'm not sure. Nope, the B-2s first flight was in 1989. The F-117 still seems like the best bet for what you saw. ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #399 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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