From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #405 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 31 August 1995 Volume 05 : Number 405 In this issue: Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS [none] F-16XL Do YOU Remember Lockheed's Burbank Facilities? (fwd) SR-71 to Bosnia SR-71 seen at Minneapolis/St. Paul airport Re: SR-71 seen at Minneapolis/St. Paul airport Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #404 Re: SR-71 seen at Minneapolis/St. Paul airport Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS Re: SR-71 to Bosnia Request for SR-71/Paul Crickmore Info Re: Request for SR-71/Paul Crickmore Info Blackbird on TV Air Force Museum, Dayton SR-71 Recall Recap Eject! Eject! Eject! Re: SR-71 seen at Minneapolis/St. Paul airport See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: megazone@world.std.com (MegaZone) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS Once upon a time Wei-Jen Su shaped the electrons to say... >and co-pilot/bomber), and the F-16XL only one. Therefore, they figure out >that a two crew aircraft will be less work load to the crews... There is a 2 seat XL - one of each was built. The 15E could lift more and had two engines - important for ground attack where ground fire is a problem. - -- megazone@world.std.com 510-735-8583 MegaZone's Waste Of Time Moderator: anime fanfic archive, ftp.std.com /archives/anime-fan-works; rec.arts.anime.stories - Maintainer: Ani Difranco Mailing List - Mail to majordomo@world.std.com with 'subscribe ani-difranco' in the body. ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [none] Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund wrote: >The countries in NATO were netherlands, belgium, norway and denmark. >Fokker in netherlands did the assembly if i'm not mistaken. The F-20 did not compete with the F-16, Mirage F1 and Viggen for the NATO replacement aircraft of the F-104G Starfighter. The F-16 was selected around 1975, and the first aircraft were build in Belgium by SABCA/SONACA and in the Netherlands by Fokker-VFW already in 1978. The four original NATO countries ordered: Country Ordered Delivered Number Types - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Belgium 06/07/1975 01/29/1979 96/20 F-16A/B later 40/4 F-16A/B Netherlands 06/07/1975 06/1979 80/20/2 F-16A/B/B(R) later 78/20/14 F-16A/A(R)/B Norway 06/07/1975 01/15/1980 60/12 F-16A/B later 4/2 F-16A/B Denmark 06/07/1975 01/18/1980 46/12 F-16A/B later 18/6 F-16A/B plus 3 F-16A (ex USAF) The F-20 also did not compete for the other early F-16 export deals: Iran 10/27/1976 --- 128/32 F-16A/B Israel 08/1978 07/1980 67/8 F-16A/B 10/1987 51/24 F-16C/D later 30/30 F-16C/D plus 1995 50 F-16A/B (ex USAF) Egypt 06/1980 03/1982 34/8 F-16A/B 10/11/1982 34/6 F-16C/D 10/1987 35/12 F-16C/D 06/1990 30/30 F-16C/D Pakistan 12/1981 01/1983 28/12 F-16A/B 09/1989 --- 54/17 F-16A/B Venezuela 05/1982 09/1983 18/6 F-16A/B South Korea 12/1981 03/1986 36 F-16C/D The F-20, which first flew on 08/30/1982 -- exactly 13 years ago -- was instead aimed at countries already operating F-5A/B and F-5E/F, mainly in the Pacific Rim, like South Korea, and Taiwan, and other smaller countries like Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, etc. most of which finally bought the F-16. Bahrain, who ordered 4 F-20s, converted this order later to F-5E, and later also bought F-16s. Northrop (through McDonald Douglas) had some success by winning a contract from South Korea for 120 F/A-18s, but this contract finally was canceled, and given instead to the cheaper F-16C/D, while Taiwan produced its AIDC Ching-Kuo IDF (Indigenous Defense Fighter) with help from Northrop, General Electric, and others. Another market for the F-20 would have been (NATO) countries like Portugal, Turkey and Greece, which also procured the F-16 later, while Spain, Canada, and Switzerland choose the F/A-18. Only four F-5G/F-20s were built: * USAF serial '82-0062'; first flight 08/30/1982 from Edwards AFB with Northrop test pilot Russ Scott; first painted red and white; made its 63rd flight and was redesignated F-20A in 11/1982; later painted grey; flew with the registration 'N4416T'; crashed 10/10/1984 at Suwon AB, South Korea; Northrop's chief test pilot Darrell Cornell was killed, performing aerobatics for the sales demonstration; * USAF serial '82-0063'; roll out on 07/25/1983; first flight on 08/26/1983; painted grey; flew with the registration 'N3986B'; crashed at CAFB Goose Bay, Labrador, in 03/1985; Northrop test pilot Dave Barnes was killed, performing aerobatics for sales demonstration / airshow; * USAF serial '82-0064'; first flight 05/1984; painted grey; flew with the registration 'N44761'; the sole surviving airframe is displayed in the California Museum of Science and Industry in Los Angeles, CA; * USAF serial '82-0065'; scrapped while less than 50% completed; first flight was planned for early 1987; - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: F-16XL Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund wrote: >You mean the F-16 XL. >The same type of bomb carriage as on the F-15E but on the wings instead >ie conformal bomb-carriage under the wing and pretty near the leading >edge too. >The prototype is stored in Fort Worth i think. The F-16XL prototypes were developed in cooperation with NASA, and were built to compete with the F-15E Strike Eagle. The first prototype (sometimes referred to as F-16XL-1, 'Ship 1', or F-16E) is a single-seat aircraft, and was modified from the 5th FSD (Full Scale Development) F-16A (aka YF-16A), USAF serial '75-0749'. It is powered by a Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-100 turbo fan. The second prototype (sometimes referred to as F-16XL-2, 'Ship 12, or F-16F) is a two-seat aircraft, and was modified from the (single-seat) 3rd FSD (Full Scale Development) F-16A (aka YF-16A), USAF serial '75-0747'. It is powered by a General Electric F110-GE-129 turbofan. After it was stored for a while at General Dynamics' Fort Worth, TX, plant, 'Ship 1' was transferred to NASA on 05/02/1988, and arrived at NASA's DFRF (Dryden Flight Research Center), Edwards AFB, CA, on 04/10/1989, where it received its new NASA number '849'. It was initially used for SLFC (Supersonic Laminar Flow Control) research, and later at NASA's LaRC (Langley Research Center), Hampton, VA, for the CAWAP (Cranked-Arrow Wing Aerodynamics Project) and for Sonic Boom research in connection with NASA's SR-71s. 'Ship 2' was also given to NASA and arrived at Edwards on 1990/91, where it received its NASA number '846' (after temporarily using '848'). It was also used at Edwards for Supersonic Laminar Flow Control research and, on 11/28/1994, 'Ship 1' returned to Dryden for new SLFC flights, aimed at future HSCT (Hyper-Sonic Commercial Transport) aircraft. Maybe Mary Shafer has some more up-to-date information? - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Do YOU Remember Lockheed's Burbank Facilities? (fwd) The following message was posted at sci.aeronautics.airliners, and I thought some Skunk Works reader might be familiar with or interested in this topic. On Thu, 31 Aug 95 posted: >DO YOU REMEMBER......... >Air Force Plant#14, the Lockheed Plants, or the Lockheed Air Terminal >located in Burbank, CA? >The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is interested in these facilities and is >conducting research into their history from the 1920s to the present. >QuantaLex has been contracted to conduct this research and is currently >speaking to individuals with knowledge of these facilities or the >companies or industries which operated them. >If you have any information, we would like to to talk to you!!!! >Please call QuantaLex, Inc. at: 1-800-873-7411 (Toll Free) >(8 am - 5 pm MDT, Monday - Friday) >Or please e-mail QuantaLex, Inc. at: >quanta@usa.net >QuantaLex, Inc. >300 Union Boulevard, Suite 600 - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Jay.Waller@analog.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 07:25 EDT Subject: SR-71 to Bosnia ABC reported this morning that the SR-71s may be used in recon over Bosnia. Anyone heard anything else on this ? ------------------------------ From: Rick.Lafford@cldx.com, Johnson & Johnson Clinical Diagnostics Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:35:18 -0400 Subject: SR-71 seen at Minneapolis/St. Paul airport I was passing thru Minneapolis/St. Paul airport on Tuesday afternoon. When I looked across from the terminal building to the Air Guard facility, I was somewhat stunned to see the unmistakable shape of an SR-71 pointing at me from behind a C-130. Does anyone know if this was a static display piece or did I actually see an SR on the way somewhere? Rick Rick Lafford Project Engineer Johnson & Johnson Clinical Diagnostics lafford@cnp.cldx.com ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SR-71 seen at Minneapolis/St. Paul airport > I was passing thru Minneapolis/St. Paul airport on Tuesday afternoon. When I > looked across from the terminal building to the Air Guard facility, I was > somewhat stunned to see the unmistakable shape of an SR-71 pointing at me > from behind a C-130. Does anyone know if this was a static display piece or > did I actually see an SR on the way somewhere? Sounds like you saw the Minnesota ANG's A-12, #60-6931. ------------------------------ From: "Michael William Freeman" Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #404 > From: Wei-Jen Su > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 01:53:16 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS > > > > > You mean the F-16 XL. > > The same type of bomb carriage as on the F-15E but on the wings instead > > ie conformal bomb-carriage under the wing and pretty near the leading > > edge too. > > One of the reason that USAF selected the F-15E instead of the > F-16XL for a bomber mission is because the F-15E can fit two crew (pilot > and co-pilot/bomber), and the F-16XL only one. Therefore, they figure out > that a two crew aircraft will be less work load to the crews... > > Live Long and Prosper > > Su Wei-Jen > wsu02@barney.poly.edu That's not true. There is a two-seat F-16XL. The reason that the F-15E was chosen for a couple of reasons. 1) Two Engines. Since it is a Strike Aircraft, and would encounter heavy ground fire, a plane with 2 engines has a better chance of returning to base if one is hit by fire. Two engines also allows a heavier payload to be transported with greater speed. 2) Low level speed. A larger aircraft will ride better at low altitude that a small one. The twin-engines is the main thing. That is the same reason that all new Navy planes have 2 engines. ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SR-71 seen at Minneapolis/St. Paul airport Rick Lafford wrote: >I was passing thru Minneapolis/St. Paul airport on Tuesday afternoon. When I >looked across from the terminal building to the Air Guard facility, I was >somewhat stunned to see the unmistakable shape of an SR-71 pointing at me >from behind a C-130. Does anyone know if this was a static display piece or >did I actually see an SR on the way somewhere? The aircraft you saw was probably the 8th A-12, Article 128, USAF serial '60-6931', which is displayed at the Minnesota Air National Guard Museum, St. Paul, MN, since 10/27/1991. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Request for help on SKUNK WORKS This can't be right--there's a two-seat F-16XL about 100 yards from me right now. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Thu, 31 Aug 1995, Wei-Jen Su wrote: > > > > You mean the F-16 XL. > > The same type of bomb carriage as on the F-15E but on the wings instead > > ie conformal bomb-carriage under the wing and pretty near the leading > > edge too. > > One of the reason that USAF selected the F-15E instead of the > F-16XL for a bomber mission is because the F-15E can fit two crew (pilot > and co-pilot/bomber), and the F-16XL only one. Therefore, they figure out > that a two crew aircraft will be less work load to the crews... > > Live Long and Prosper > > Su Wei-Jen > wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SR-71 to Bosnia Not likely to happen soon--they don't have any checked out crews. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Thu, 31 Aug 1995 Jay.Waller@analog.com wrote: > ABC reported this morning that the SR-71s may be used in recon over Bosnia. > Anyone heard anything else on this ? ------------------------------ From: "William F. Wurzbach" Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:00:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Request for SR-71/Paul Crickmore Info I apologize if this has been discussed previously, but the Majordomo server doesn't seem to support a database search, so I couldn't be sure. I was at the Experimental Aircraft Association Fly-in this year and purchased a book by Paul F. Crickmore entitled "SR-71: The Secret Missions Exposed". I thoroughly enjoyed the detail and wealth of information he had on the subject and my curiosity was piqued by passing references to his earlier books. The titles weren't given, but one was described as 'the definitive work on the SR-71' according to Lockheed personnel, and the other was some type of pictorial publication. I'm interested in determining the titles of these two previous publications, but can't seem to locate them in the current "Books in Print" at the library -- just a reference to the 'Secret Missions' one. I belive one might be called "Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird" (1986), but can't be sure. Would anyone happen to know the titles or ISBN numbers of these two books and/or where they might be found or purchased ? I suppose I can just wait until next year's EAA and look harder, but I'm not sure I can wait that long ;-). Also, information on any other books about the SR-71 that are felt to be of high quality would be welcomed. Any help someone can provide will be much appreciated. =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= William Wurzbach, DBA/Data Security Fax : (414) 424 - 7317 c/o Information Systems - D305 Phone : (414) 424 - 3018 University of Wisconsin - Oshkosh Bitnet : WURZBACH@OSHKOSHW 800 Algoma Blvd. Internet : WURZBACH@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU Oshkosh, Wisconsin 54901-8624 ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Request for SR-71/Paul Crickmore Info William, The two books you are looking for, are: Format: Number: "Nu" - Sequential Number - ------- Title: "Ti" - Title of the book Subtitle: "Su" - Subtitles, if any Volume: "Vo" - Volume Number / Year, if multi-volume Author: "Au" - Author and Co-Authors Editor: "Ed" - Editors, if any (instead of Authors) Publisher: "Pu" - Publisher (and location) Year: "Yr" - Year of publication Series: "Se" - Series name and number, if any ISBN: "Is" - ISBN number, if any Cost: "Co" - Price (in US$ or English Pound (L)), if available Remarks: "Re" - Availability, my personal opinion, etc. Nu - B201 Ti - Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird Au - Paul F. Crickmore Pu - Osprey Publishing Ltd., London, England Pu - Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI Yr - 1986, 1987 Is - 0-85045-653-3 Re - Very good! (but out of print) Nu - B205 Ti - SR-71 Blackbird Su - Lockheed's Mach 3 Hot Shot Au - Paul F. Crickmore Pu - Osprey Publishing Ltd., London, England Yr - 1987 Is - 0-85045-794-7 Re - Many high quality photos Those entries are from a bigger booklist, which you can find at my Aviation home page at: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/texte/books.htm - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: "Bill Corea" Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:42:47 -0600 Subject: Blackbird on TV - --part_AC6B34970001996000000003 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: Inline > Sunday, the Discovery channel will air a documentary on the SR-71. It > is at 10:00 Mountain, 9:00 Pacific (Eastern and Central unknown, > but probably 10:00 EDT, 9:00 CDT.) > Check local listings for details. The program is called "SR-71 Blackbird-The Secret Vigil". It airs as part of the "Discovery Sunday" series. Sunday, Sept.3 at 9 ET and PT, 8 CT, 10 MT. Also, "Wings" is showing "Eyes in the Sky" on Friday, 9/1 at 6 pm (ET and PT, adjust for Central and Mountain). Bill - --part_AC6B34970001996000000003 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: Inline This is me speaking. If my company had an opinion on this subject, it might be different. Bill Corea Chevron Overseas Petroleum Inc wcco@chevron.com San Ramon, California - --part_AC6B34970001996000000003-- ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 12:45:27 EDT Subject: Air Force Museum, Dayton I was surfing the Web and found the United States Air Force Museum page. http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/rec/air/museums/oh/usafm.html You can call up the specs on (what must be) evety aircraft they have there. - -- A hundred years from now, it will not matter what kind of house I live in, how much is in my bank account, or what kind of car I drive, but the world may be a different place because I was important in the life of a child. Douglas J. Tiffany dougt@u011.oh.vp.com Varco-Pruden Buildings Van Wert, Ohio ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 10:22:07 EST Subject: SR-71 Recall Recap :SPY PLANE BACK FROM RETIREMENT SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- The nation's premier spy plane, the SR-71 Blackbird, has been brought out of retirement after six years because it flies so fast and high it can elude missiles over hotspots such as Bosnia. Justin Murphy, a spokesman for Lockheed, the plane's manufacturer, said Wednesday that Air Force crews training to fly the SR-71 had looked at potential routes over Bosnia. The Air Force refused to say whether SR-71s will be used in Bosnia. But Capt. Nori LaRue of the 9th Reconnaissance Wing at Beale Air Force Base said military strategists believe the SR-71 -- which is more than 30 years old -- "would have higher survivability than other planes in high-threat areas" where there are surface-to-air missiles. U-2 spy planes are much slower and fly at lower altitudes, making them more vulnerable to missile attacks, LaRue said. Satellites are expensive, hard to reposition and can be fooled because they pass overhead at regular intervals. SR-71s were retired in 1989, even though they were the fastest, highest-flying planes in the world, largely because of the high cost of operating them. U-2s have been in Britain since April supporting the NATO operation to exclude military aircraft from Bosnian skies. The threat of missiles in Bosnia was demonstrated in June when Air Force Capt. Scott O'Grady's F-16 fighter was shot down over Serb-controlled northern Bosnia. The flier was rescued six days later. A French Mirage 2000C fighter was shot from Bosnian skies Wednesday. Earlier this year, Congress directed the Air Force to prepare two SR-71s for missions by Friday. A third SR-71 will be used as a trainer. But it does not appear the Air Force will make the deadline, because it is behind schedule in training pilots to fly the SR-71. Many former crew members retired or took other assignments when the planes were mothballed. One two-person crew qualified for regular missions Tuesday, Murphy said. The Air Force said two other crews should be ready by the end of September. Congress authorized $72 million to reactivate and refurbish the planes. The planes also have been updated so they can transmit data while still in flight. "In the Cold War era, we didn't feel we needed to expend that kind of money when the U-2 would do the job. Now we're in a different environment," LaRue said. "We used to have two superpowers and everybody else was relatively quiet. Now we have one superpower and everybody else trying to grab a piece of the pie and establish their ground and their rights." During the Gulf War, U.S. military commanders complained they missed the SR-71's capabilities, said Murphy, Lockheed's SR-71 program manager. The SR-71, which can fly to the edge of space and is faster than a speeding bullet, is now expected to serve for up to another decade. The plane can cruise at an altitude of more than 85,000 feet at over three times the speed of sound. That's roughly 33 miles a minute - -- fast enough to streak from San Francisco to New York in 1 hour, 45 minutes. Murphy said the jet could capture images of all of Bosnia is just 20 minutes. ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:25:42 PDT Subject: Eject! Eject! Eject! Spent a little time surfing, let Lycos find "starfighter" for me. Since its new to me I pass this along to anyone else who wants it. Try http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/PhotoServer/F-104/index.html My FAVORITE pic of all time is at http://wwwtera.iss.infn.it/st/aircraft.html Its a Mig 29 in flames. Makes a great Windows background! How about we compile a list of our favorite skunky web sites! Just add yours and repost. Chuck Smith "Aerospace Engineer to the Stars" ------------------------------ From: Mike Beede Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:49:38 -0500 Subject: Re: SR-71 seen at Minneapolis/St. Paul airport > I was passing thru Minneapolis/St. Paul airport on Tuesday afternoon. When I > looked across from the terminal building to the Air Guard facility, I was > somewhat stunned to see the unmistakable shape of an SR-71 pointing at me > from behind a C-130. Does anyone know if this was a static display piece or > did I actually see an SR on the way somewhere? It is a static display. It is actually an A-12. You can see it and some other planes at the Air Guard Museum for a truly nominal fee. Mike ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #405 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". 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