From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #421 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 16 September 1995 Volume 05 : Number 421 In this issue: Re: Bosnia can't be beat? Xerox tribute to Kelly Johnson, and the ªSkunk Works.ª Olde bizniss Re: Xerox tribute to Kelly Johnson, and the *Skunk Works.* 21st Century Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #420 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hoar@agdis01.newark.af.mil ( Stephen Hoar) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 07:18:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Bosnia can't be beat? Terry, this is out of place and you are wasting a lot of folks time just deleting this stuff. It's off topic and belongs elsewhere. If you have a political statement to make go elsewhere. -Steve In your message of 14 Sep 1995 at 1350 EDT, you write: > > > > ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ > Subject: Re: Bosnia can't be beat? > Author: Bill Riddle at FHU2 > Date: 14/9/1995 9:12 AM > > > Well, that is what air power advocates have been saying since WWI. > But their words don't match the facts. > > In all the history of air warfare there is ONLY ONE air campaign that > has been decisive. That one only consisted of two strikes: Hiroshima > and Nagasaki. > > So the lesson to be learned is that air power is indispensable but not > decisive, unless you want to go nuc. Neither Germany nor Japan (or > Iraq for that matter) was brought down by air power. It took grunts > on the ground. > > Bill Riddle > Retired Army Aviator and Air Power Realist > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Bosnia can't be beat? > Author: Terry Colvin at FHU2 > Date: 9/14/95 8:59 AM > > > > Sorry for the (continued) off topic, but I can't just sit > here and have somebody trivialize the effects of air power. > > >>Those who think the mighty NATO war machine, using mostly air > >>power can have a substantive enough effect on the Serbs to get > >>them to submit to UN wishes are dreaming. > > Simply a matter of how many innocent casualties the world is > willing to tolerate. Air power can pulverize a nation. Have > you seen the effects of carpet bombing? How about fuel-air > explosives? Don't ever underestimate the psychological effects > of having Hell rained down on you by an enemy that is (for the > most part) untouchable. > > Your statement has merit. From a political perspective the > cost of innocent lives may be too great. But from a physical > perspective, air power can turn Bosnia into a parking lot. We > could level it and build a shopping mall by the end of the year. > ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 09:05:02 PDT Subject: Xerox tribute to Kelly Johnson, and the ªSkunk Works.ª If you are out traveling the highways this year and come across any of Xerox`s new trucks, (the new ones have the red, disintegrating "X"), check out the back doors. Some of them will be adorned with a skunk. Why? Well, Xerox decided to benchmark forward product groups for innovation and developement-cycle time, and decided that the Lockheed "skunk works" during the Kelly Johnson years was the one to emulate. To this end, the Xerox "skunk works" was launched. The skunk is added to most of the Webster, NY trucks as a tribute to BOTH organizations. Thought you "skunkers" would find this interesting. Chuck Smith "Aerospace Engineer to the Stars" ------------------------------ From: "I am the NRA." Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 10:25:57 PDT Subject: Olde bizniss >There are seperate military and commercial GPS systems. Hmmmm? There's one. >only our military forces can receive the military system signals. It's normally intentionally degraded, with an encrypted correction available for authorized users. regards dwp ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 15-Sep-1995 1444 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 14:51:44 EDT Subject: Re: Xerox tribute to Kelly Johnson, and the *Skunk Works.* Chuck Smith wrote: >If you are out traveling the highways this year and come across any of Xerox`s >new trucks, (the new ones have the red, disintegrating "X"), check out the >back doors. Some of them will be adorned with a skunk. >Why? Well, Xerox decided to benchmark forward product groups for innovation >and developement-cycle time, and decided that the Lockheed "skunk works" >during the Kelly Johnson years was the one to emulate. To this end, the >Xerox "skunk works" was launched. The skunk is added to most of the Webster, >NY trucks as a tribute to BOTH organizations. That is neat. I wonder how much Xerox had to pay to use the skunk device ("a registered trademark of Lockheed Martin, etc.") Digital is far to lame to come up with an idea like this. George George Allegrezza | Digital Equipment Corporation | "Why don't they just shut up and Mobile Systems Business | take their ass-whipping like men?" Littleton MA USA | allegrezza@ljsrv2.enet.dec.com | -- Charles Barkley ------------------------------ From: chosa@chosa.win.net (Byron Weber) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 17:53:52 Subject: 21st Century Never know where your going to pick up a little information. At a Pick N Save (cheap-o store that sells factory rejects and discontinued items) I picked up a book titled Weapons of the 21st Century by Bill Yenne, pub-Cresent Books, 1992, for $3.99. Mostly a picture book, but with the advantage of hindsight, I can verify many of his predictions and details of aircraft were accurate, A careful reading found the following very interesting information I cannot verify: The first studies that lead to the development of the TR-3-Black Manta, began in 1976 under the Air to Surface Technology Evaluation & Integration (ASTEI) program. There were at least 10 stealth aircraft programs. One was Have Blue which resulted in Lockheed's F-117. ASTEI led to Covert Survivable In-weather Reconnaissance/Strike (CSIRS), That resulted in the further developments of the F-117 and the TR-3. In 1978 Northrop developed the THAP prototype, Tactical High-Altitude Penetrator, XTR-3 or YTR-3, that first flew at Groom Lake in 1981. Subsequently they produced 30 TR-3A's. He adds, they (TR-3A's) are frequently seen in the company of F-117's and are believed to be powered by General Electric F404 turbofans buried in the wings. It measures 45' long with a 65' wingspan and is quieter than the F-117, in a triangular frame. Under A-12 Avenger II he gave dimensions 37' long with a 70' wingspan (39' when folded!!). It was nicknamed the Flying Dorito. The Aurora purportedly flew (or flys) at Mach 7, observed as a fast, bright light, at 50,000 feet. Byron ------------------------------ From: suhler@xanthus.usc.edu (Paul A. Suhler) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 21:28:48 PDT Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #420 development and first off the line aircraft. Besides the first production F-117 with pitch and yaw crossed, the first Blackbird of one of the flavors (A-12, YF-12, SR-71?) also had some of its controls crossed and it crashed on its first flight. This sounds like two different incidents. On the high speed taxi test of the A-12, the Stability Augmentation System (SAS) was not engaged, and Lou Schalk had a hard time getting it back down in one piece. The video "Kelly's Way" has this flight. Later, Mel Vojvodich, one of the CIA's pilots, took up an A-12 which had been disassembled and then reassembled with the SAS controls connected wrong. He had to punch out after, I believe, less than ten seconds of flight. See Crickmore for details. ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #421 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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