From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #428 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 20 September 1995 Volume 05 : Number 428 In this issue: UFO? RE: SR71-Kelly comments F-117A "Nighthawk" (part 1/2) Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #424 Convair's Blackbird Competitor? GPS See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chosa@chosa.win.net (Byron Weber) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:55:31 Subject: UFO? Wait, before you consider flaming me, read on. This isnt about THOSE UFO's. Satellite Times, Volume 2, Number 1, September/October 1995, pg 14, UFOs by Philip Chien reports this is a Navy project, UHF Follow-On. (This could get very confusing for FOIA ordering ufologists.) UFO has replaced Fltsatcom and Lesat spacecraft, Hughes Aircraft got the contract to build them and Lochkeed Martin the contract to launch them, via Atlas. The article includes TABLE 1: UFO Payload Launches and Scheduled Launches and Table 2: UFO Communications Downlink Frequencies. The project had a rough start, but eventually succeeded. UFOs are expected to provide high quality communications for the military into the 21st century. Byron ------------------------------ From: Pionusman@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:54:36 -0400 Subject: RE: SR71-Kelly comments In a message dated 95-09-19 10:07:14 EDT, mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) writes: > The referenced >speed that the people being interviewed referred to was 35 miles >per minute (2100mph) Other speeds have been referred to as Mach 1 >being 620mph and 750mph. Is there one number that is generally >referred to as Mach 1 in miles per hour. It all depends on your altitude. That is, if measured KIAS (Me think.) - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) Sender: skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu To: skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu CC: mangan@edac1.kodak.com Date: 95-09-19 10:07:14 EDT I just watched the SR71 AvWeek video that was presented on Discovery a few weeks ago. I thought that some of Kelly's comments were unique. One was that "the military probably wouldn't ever need anything faster than this" However all of his other comments separated the military and the CIA. I noticed the same thing from Ben Rich. As an example, It was stated that the military SR71 was designed to stay in international air space and gather intelligence but the CIA A12 was designed to go in right over the target and gather the info needed right there. There seemed to be consistant separation of Military and Government mission statements. Based on the above I have 2 questions. Did the CIA ever stop using the A12 or a derivative of it? and Does this imply that the CIA may have what we have been referring to as Aurora and that the Military doesn't. ( Replace the C in CIA with your favorite group of the month. ) Also, I noticed that the gauges in the SR71 indicated Mach 3 at 81,400 feet. Based on the recent conversations in this group, what speed does that really figure out to be. The referenced speed that the people being interviewed referred to was 35 miles per minute (2100mph) Other speeds have been referred to as Mach 1 being 620mph and 750mph. Is there one number that is generally referred to as Mach 1 in miles per hour. I also received my copy of Bell Aircraft Since 1935 and they have pictures of their U2 equivalent in there. I think they called it the DS-188( I'll recheck that). Neat piece of equipment. It was being built about the same time that my dad was going back and forth between The Skunk Works and Bell Aircraft(where he was employed). They also had a picture of the 4 fanned XV22 in there and talked about how it was short lived due to a crash in August of 1966. I saw it crash. After it hit the first time one of the rear fans sped up and twisted the rear section of the craft over 180 degrees. I helped the pilots get out as the crash truck came in from Bell Aircraft/Niagara Falls Airport. The crash site was on Hoover road in an open field on the Hoover Dairy property. The significance was that it was only a few feet from High Tension lines. I took photos of it and then had my camera taken away from me. Luckily I new several of the big shots there and they took it away from the security people and gave it back. Paul mangan@kodak.com ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: F-117A "Nighthawk" (part 1/2) As a collector of (military aviation) serial numbers and designations, I found that missiles and UAVs/RPVs as well as 'black' programs are the two areas, which are the least documented, and which seem to follow their own (maybe non-existing) rules of assigning serials and designations. This article deals with the serials and markings of the Lockheed Martin F-117A Nighthawk, and includes a general introduction of terms, relating to serials, markings and aircraft identifications. The serials of the U-2 and the SR-71 (and their derivatives) are well known and seldom disputed, even though the rumor (?) that more airframes than acknowleged were built still persists. Their Lockheed 'Article' numbers and their military serials are known and (usually) can be directly related to an individual aircraft and its markings. Exceptions, like unmarked aircraft or aircraft displaying either fictional or foreign markings, exist of course. The F-117A, on the other hand, was originally said to have no USAF serial numbers, but this statement was later changed, and several different serials for each aircraft are reported. To make it even worse, the F-117As displayed for most of their operational life only a three digit tail number, often believed to be their article number or the last three digits of their secret FY-serial number or a unique three digit serial number, only used by F-117s. Some serials and aircraft identification numbers are: * Aircraft Ident Number: Usually a unique number. For US military aircraft, this number is normally directly related to a military serial, and is sometimes even identical to a military serial. Other equivalent names for the same kind of number are: - Article number (used by Lockheed Skunk Works); - b/n (build number - used for example by Boeing); - c/n (construction number); - msn (manufacturer serial number - used by FAA and many other civilian organizations); - Werk Nr. (used by German manufactures - often called "Werke Nr." by American sources); * US military serial numbers: Mostly unique and directly related to an aircraft, but sometimes reassigned to other airframes, especially after cancelation of a project. Sometimes an aircraft receives several different military serials, mainly when transferred from one service to another or after being rebuilt. Some US military serial systems are: - USAF FY (Fiscal Year) serials: Introduced in 1922. Consists of the last two digits of the fiscal year in which the aircraft was procured (or paid for), followed by a dash and a sequential number, starting over with 1 in each year. There may be gaps due to cancelations and the assignment of serials to missiles. Also sometimes special, out of order serials are used, for example to create unique call signs. Or serials for FMS or MAP aircraft were assigned retroactively. - US Army FY (Fiscal Year) serials: Seperated from USAF FY serials in 1967 and modified in 1971. It uses a FY prefix, followed by a dash and a sequential number, which originally (1967 to 1970) started each year with 15000. In 1971 the first serial was 20000, and since then, this numerical series was continued, independent from the Fiscal Year part. - USN (and USMC) BuNos (or BuAerNos - Bureau of Aeronautics Numbers): The current (third) series of sequential numbers, started in 1940 at 00001. - USCG (military-like) serials: The USCG used several diferent systems, besides using original (or modified/shortened original) military serials for transferred aircraft. Normally limited (or expnded) to four digits. One series is based on the aircraft type, another is more or less a continued sequential series from several previous serial systems. * Civil registrations (in USA: FAA N-numbers): Registrations of aircraft are prefixed by an internationally accepted country code (N for USA), followed by a national registration (sometimes seperated by a dash). The form and layout of those registrations depends on the individual country, and can differ considerably. Registrations are usually 3, 4 or 5 characters long, and are comprised of letters, numbers, or both, often following more or less strict rules. * Military serials of other countries: Some contries use sequential, unique military serials, like the UK, while others use serials which can be reassigned after the original aircraft is not longer used, like Germany, while others only assign tactical numbers, which are not unique nor airframe related. Many use civil registrations or semi-civil registrations for their military aircraft. * NACA/NASA numbers: Originally, NACA used a more or less sequential series of numbers. Early U-2s used fake NACA numbers and call signs. NASA initially continued to use NACA numbers, but later introduced its own numbering system, based on the facility, the aircraft is assigned to. Parallel to those NASA numbers, most aircraft are also civil registered and usually have corresponding FAA N-numbers. Others use their original military serials or civil registrations. * Tactical Numbers and other military markings: Military aircraft, which don't have to be civil registered, are required to show an official insignia (often called roundel), depicting the country of origin and an individual aircraft identification (usually a number). Military services in most countries use, apart from the military serial number, an additional tactical number and/or other markings, depicting for example the unit the aircraft is assigned to. This number is also often used as a call sign. The layout of those numbers and markings can change over time, and it is not uncommon, to see aircraft with either very colorful markings or very dull (nearly invisible 'low viz') markings, as well as totally unmarked or wrongly marked aircraft. The markings are usually on the nose, the tail or the side of the aircraft, as well as sometimes on the wings, and are often repeated several times over an airframe. Each service may have its own rules, which can change considerable over time. Some examples of U.S. markings are: - USAAF/USAF tail numbers: introduced in the early 1940s, displayed the last digit of the FY-serial and the serial number on the tail of an aircraft. Later, low serial numbers were often filled-up with Zeros (to a total length of 5 digits), e.g. displaying '20008' for '52-8'. FY-serials of aircraft older than a decade, were often indicated with a leading "0-", meaning the FY digit of the serial was not from the actual decade, but more than 10 years old (and sometimes also read as "O-" for Obsolete or Old). - USAAF/USAF Buzz numbers: introduced in 1945, apparently to more easily identify naughty pilots, who would 'buzz' people or lifestock. Consisting of two letters and three digits, seperated by a dash. The first letter depicted the mission (or designation) of the aircraft, A stood for Attack, B for Bomber etc., while the second letter depicted the aircraft type, BA stood for B-17, and later for B-57, BB for B-19, and later for B-66, etc. The three digits represented the last three digits of the FY serial number, and in the case of multiple, identical last three digits, an A, B, C, etc. was added. The buzz number "FS-287D" was hence uniquely identifying F-84G '52-3287', and could not be confused with either F-84E '49-2287', F-84G '51-1287', RF-84F '51-11287', RF-84F '52-7287', or F-84G 52-8287. There were many changes over time, and exceptions to those rules in practice, however, and the Buzz number disappeared in the early '60s. - USAF Tail Codes: with the advent of the Vietnam war, two letter tail codes, depicting the unit of the aircraft were introduced, combined with the letters "AF" for Air Force, the last two digits of the FY and the last three digits of the serial. Later, the two letter tail code usually identified the unit's home base, rather than the unit itself, and the correct identity of an aircraft was only discernible by looking at the data block, supposed to be below and behind the cockpit on the portside (left) of any USAF or US Army aircraft. - USN/USMC Tail numbers, Tail Codes and Nose/Side numbers: the tail number usually shows the (6 digit) BuNo or the last 4 digits of the BuNo. The tail code usually depicts the unit the aircraft is assigned to, and the nose/side number shows the mission of the aircraft and is also used as call sign and IFF-transponder ID (coded octal). - Colors, insignia and nose/tail art. The use of color coding to depict a specific unit, as well as applying unit insignias, logos and other markings on aircraft is as old as military aviation. Many aircraft also display individual nose or tail art, in form of more or less permanent writings or paintings. All those marking rules change constantly and are often not applied correctly, only partially correct or not correct at all. Especially during periods of change, aircraft often show mixed markings, based on both, the old and the new system. Clandestine, secret and 'black' program aircraft often display special markings, wrong or fake markings and IDs, or no markings at all. F-117 serials and markings: =========================== Here is a list of F-117 serials, compiled from all available sources. Several sources give the number of aircraft as 65, other say 64. All seem to agree that 5 F-117A FSD (aka YF-117A) were built, (Articles '780' - '784'), but some sources say 60 F-117A production aircraft, (Articles '785' - '844' or '785' - '843' plus one without number) were built, while others say only 59 (Articles '785' - '843') were built. The discrepancy is apparently based on the following three facts: a) an official USAF statement that 59 production aircraft were procured; b) the first production aircraft crashed before acceptance of the USAF; c) an official USAF statement, saying the crashed aircraft was not counted in the production total. Some people interpret this as: a) 59 built, 58 accepted, and the crashed aircraft was '785'; b) 59 built, 58 accepted, the crashed aircraft did not have a number at all; c) 60 built, 59 accepted, and the crashed aircraft was '785'; d) 60 built, 59 accepted, the crashed aircraft did not have a number at all; I believe that 5 FSD ('780' - '784') and 59 series aircraft ('785' - '843') were built, of which the first ('785') crashed before acceptance. I also believe, that all had official USAF FY-serials assigned at one point in time. For a long time F-117As showed only the 3 digit number on their tails and the text "USAF", but after their first public appearance in 04/21/1990 at Nellis AFB, the tailcode "TR" (for Tonopah Test Range) was usually added. After relocating to Holloman AFB, the "HO" tail code was displayed. Other tailcodes include "WA" (for Weapons tests at Nellis AFB) and "ED" (for evaluation/test aircraft at Edwards AFB / Palmdale) on some test aircraft. Sometimes non-standard markings -- such as unit designations like "37 TFW", "415 TFS AMU", "416 TFS", or "416 TFS AMU" with a small "TR" or later "49 FW" or "9th FS" with a small "HO" -- were carried as well. Additionally, TAC and later ACC badges, as well as unit badges were usually worn on tail fin and engine intakes respectively. No data block below the cockpit, showing the correct FY-serial (if existing) has ever been observed. Instead a pilots name is often displayed in white on the side of the canopy. All other markings are usually in gray on the black painted aircraft, including the low-viz national insignia, even though some unit badges and the ejection seat triangle show some color. The 3 digit number is usually also displayed on the nose wheel landing gear strut, color coded in red (for I-Unit, 4450th TS, 415th TFS, 415th FS, 9th FS) or blue (Z-Unit, 4453rd TS, 416th TFS, $16th FS, 8th FS), depicting the squadron. As the F-117As become less and less 'black', they have recently begun to show standard USAF ACC tail codes, including the FY-serial number part, as well as low-viz color coded stripes on the top of their tail fins. It is open to speculation whether the displayed Fiscal Year digits and the corresponding serials were assigned retroactively (to fit the original 3 digit codes), or if they were assigned at the time the aircraft were ordered. However, the fact that the aircraft now display FY digits, indicates that FY-serials were indeed assigned at some point. Because only the last three digits of the serial are shown still, the full serials are still not available, as long as the data blocks are missing. In the following list, "No." is a sequential number, "Article" is the three digit number displayed on the tail. The first number '780' was supposedly used to reflect the prototype's envisioned first flight date, planned for July 1980 (7/80). The following three sources say that all F-117As were given a unique three digit code, and were never assigned any official USAF FY-serial numbers: ============================================================================= * "Lockheed F-117A", subtitled "Operation and Development of the Stealth Fighter", by Bill Sweetman and James 'Jim' Goodall, published by Motorbooks International and Haynes Publishing Group, 1990, the first (original) F-117 reference; * "Lockheed F-117 Stealth Fighter", subtitled "Desert Storm's Most Secret Airplane Revealed!", by Jay Miller, the second, revised edition of Aerofax Extra (1), published by Aerofax Inc., 1991; * "Lockheed Skunk Works", subtitled "The First Fifty Years", by Jay Miller, published by Aerofax Inc. and Midland Publishing Ltd., 1993; All three list: - 5 FSD aircraft ('780' - '784'); - the crashed, first production aircraft as '785'; - 58 more production aircraft ('786' - '843'); - delivery dates for some or all production aircraft; - crashed airframes with crash date; The following sources give different FY-serial numbers: ============================================================================== * A-Ser.: 1 - "Lockheed F-117 Stealth Fighter", first edition of Aerofax Extra (1), by Jay Miller, published by Aerofax Inc., 1990: - lists 5 FSD ('780' - '784'); - lists the crashed, first production aircraft as '785'; - lists 58 more production aircraft ('786' - '843'); - appears to be a wild guess without supporting data! * B-Ser.: 1 - "The F-117A Stealth Fighter", by Steve Pace, published by TAB/ AERO books, 1992: - lists 5 FSD ('780' - '784'); - lists the crashed, first production aircraft as '785'; - lists 59 more production aircraft ('786' - '844'); - lists crashed airframes with date; - lists some DS nose art; * 2 - "Lockheed Skunk Works", by Steve Pace, published by Motorbooks International, 1992: - lists 5 FSD ('780' - '784'); - lists the crashed, first production aircraft without number; - lists 59 more production aircraft ('785' - '843'); - lists crashed airframes with date; - both books list otherwise the same serials -- with the exception of one FY. - serials seem possible but unlikely (too uniform)! * C-Ser.: 1 - World Airpower Journal 19; published by Aerospace Publishing Ltd., 1994: - lists 5 FSD ('780' - '784'); - lists the crashed, first production aircraft without number; - lists 59 more production aircraft ('785' - '843'); - lists delivery dates for all production aircraft; - lists crashed airframes with date; - lists all 42 DS aircraft with nose art and number of DS missions; - serials are possible, besides the skipped number; * D-Ser.: 1 - "More Painted Ladies", by Randy Walker, published by Schiffer Publishing Ltd., 1994: - lists all 42 DS aircraft with nose art and number of DS missions; - some of the given serials belong to F-16As; * 2 - "Team Stealth F-117", by Robert Shelton Jr. (text) and Randy Jolly (photos), published by Speciality Press, 1993: - lists all 42 DS aircraft with nose art and number of DS missions (but does not list any FY-serials); * E-Ser.: Several sources give only a very limited number of FY-serials, usually only one, and they are listed all in the 'E-row': * 1 - "FlyPast" No 137, 12/1992, only one serial; * 2 - "Air Power International" No. 11, with one photo; * 3 - "Airforces Monthly" No. 64, only one serial; * 4 - "FlyPast" No. 170, 9/1995, only two serials, one photo; * 5 - "Air International" Vol. 45/No. 2, only one serial; * 6 - Maintanance crew member SSgt. Brian Rosenthal, 8th FS, at Selfridge ANGB airshow, June 11/12, 1994; * 7 - Pilot Capt. Philip A. Smith (Bandit 438), 8th FS, at Selfridge ANGB airshow, June 11/12, 1994; No. Art. A-ser. B-ser. C-ser. D-ser. E-ser. Remarks - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ F-117A FSD aircraft, aka YF-117A: 1 780 80-0780 79-1780 79-10780 - 79-10780 (E.1) 2 781 80-0781 79-1781 79-10781 - - 3 782 80-0782 79-1782 79-10782 - - 4 783 80-0783 79-1783 79-10783 - - 5 784 80-0784 79-1784 79-10784 - - F-117A production aircraft: 0 none - (---) --- - - (B.2 and C.1 only) 1 785 80-0785 80-1785 79-10785 - - (C.1 also 79-0785) 2 786 80-0786 80-1786 80-0786 80-0786 - 3 787 80-0787 80-1787 80-0787 - - 4 788 80-0788 80-1788 80-0788 - - 5 789 80-0789 80-1789 80-0789 80-0789 80-.789 (E.2) 6 790 80-0790 80-1790 80-0790 80-0790 - 7 791 80-0791 80-1791 80-0791 80-0791 - 8 792 80-0792 81-1792 81-10792 - - 9 793 80-0793 81-1793 81-10793 81-0793 - 10 794 80-0794 81-1794 81-10794 81-0794 - 11 795 80-0795 81-1795 81-10795 - - 12 796 80-0796 81-1796 81-10796 81-0796 - 13 797 80-0797 81-1797 81-10797 81-0797 - 14 798 82-0798 81-1798 81-10798 81-0798 - 15 799 82-0799 82-1799 82-0799 82-0799 80-.799 (E.2) 16 800 82-0800 82-1800 82-0800 - - 17 801 82-0801 82-1801 82-0801 82-0801 - 18 802 82-0802 82-1802 82-0802 82-0802 82-0802 (E.3) 19 803 82-0803 82-1803 82-0803 82-0803 - 20 804 82-0804 82-1804 82-0804 - - 21 805 82-0805 82-1805 82-0805 - 82-0805 (E.4) 22 806 82-0806 82-1806 82-0806 82-0806 - 23 807 82-0807 82-1807 83-0807 83-0807 83-0807 (E.5) 24 808 82-0808 83-1808 83-0808 83-0808 83-.808 (E.2) 25 809 83-0809 84-1809 84-0809 - - 26 810 83-0810 84-1810 84-0810 84-0810 - 27 811 83-0811 84-1811 84-0811 84-0811 - 28 812 83-0812 84-1812 84-0812 84-0812 - 29 813 83-0813 85-1813 85-0813 85-0813 - 30 814 83-0814 85-1814 85-0814 85-0814 - 31 815 83-0815 85-1815 85-0815 - - 32 816 83-0816 85-1816 85-0816 85-0816 - 33 817 83-0817 85-1817 85-0817 85-0817 - 34 818 83-0818 85-1818 85-0818 85-0818 - 35 819 84-0819 85-1819 85-0819 85-0819 - 36 820 84-0820 85-1820 85-0820 - - 37 821 84-0821 85-1821 86-0821 86-0821 - 38 822 84-0822 85-1822 86-0822 - - 39 823 84-0823 85-1823 86-0823 - - 40 824 84-0824 85/4-1824 84-0824 - - (B.1; B.2: 1984) 41 825 84-0825 84-1825 84-0825 84-0825 - 42 826 84-0826 84-1826 84-0826 84-0826 - 43 827 84-0827 84-1827 84-0827 - - 44 828 84-0828 84-1828 84-0828 - - 45 829 84-0829 85-1829 85-0829 85-0829 - 46 830 85-0830 85-1830 85-0830 85-0830 - 47 831 85-0831 85-1831 85-0831 - - 48 832 85-0832 85-1832 85-0832 85-0832 - 49 833 85-0833 85-1833 85-0833 85-0833 85-.833 (E.2) 50 834 85-0834 85-1834 85-0834 85-0834 - 51 835 85-0835 85-1835 85-0835 85-0835 - 52 836 85-0836 85-1836 85-0836 85-0836 85-0836 (E.4) 53 837 85-0837 86-1837 86-0837 86-0837 - 54 838 85-0838 86-1838 86-0838 86-0838 - 55 839 85-0839 86-1839 86-0839 86-0839 - 56 840 86-0840 86-1840 86-0840 86-0840 - 57 841 86-0841 87-1841 88-0841 88-0841 - 58 842 86-0842 87-1842 88-0842 88-0842 87/3-0842 (E.6; E.7: 1983) 59 843 86-0843 87-1843 88-0843 88-0843 - 60 844 - 87-1844 - - - (B.1 only) Overview of the three main lists and some remarks: ================================================== Jay Miller (originally): ======================== 5 80-0780/0784 <= FSD; 13 80-0785/0797 <= some of those should be 81-xxx, but 1981 was skipped, 11 82-0798/0808 <= probably because F-16As have those serials; 10 83-0809/0818 11 84-0819/0829 10 85-0830/0839 4 86-0840/0843 ======================== 64 (64 serials) ======================== Steve Pace (early): | Steve Pace (later): ====================|==================== 5 79-1780/1784 | 5 79-1780/1784 <= FSD; | 1 --- 7 80-1785/1791 | 7 80-1785/1791 7 81-1792/1798 | 7 81-1792/1798 9 82-1799/1807 | 9 82-1799/1807 1 83-1808 | 1 83-1808 4 84-1809/1812 | 4 84-1809/1812 4 84-1825/1828 | 5 84-1824/1828 <= out of order; 12 85-1813/1824 | 11 85-1813/1823 <= out of order; 8 85-1829/1836 | 8 85-1829/1836 4 86-1837/1840 | 4 86-1837/1840 4 87-1841/1844 | 3 87-1841/1843 ====================|==================== 65 (65 serials) | 65 (64 serials) ====================|==================== WAPJ: | Randy Walker and others (partial): ====================|=================================== 5 79-10780/10784 | (1) 79-10780 <= FSD; 1 --- | ? 1 79-(1)0785 | ? <= possibly out of order; 6 80-0786/0791 | (6) 80-0786/0791 7 81-10792/10798 | (6) 81-0793/0798 <= 81-0793/0798 => F-16A Block 15; 8 82-0799/0806 | (8) 82-0799/0806 <= one 80-799 (?); 2 83-0807/0808 | (2) 83-0807/0808 4 84-0809/0812 | (3) 83-0810/0812 5 84-0824/0828 | (2) 84-0825/0826 <= out of order; 8 85-0813/0820 | (7) 85-0813/0819 <= out of order; 8 85-0829/0836 | (8) 85-0829/0836 <= out of order; 3 86-0821/0823 | (1) 86-0821 <= out of order; 4 86-0837/0840 | (4) 86-0837/0840 3 88-0841/0843 | (3) 88-0841/0843 <= one 87-0842 (?), one 83-0842 (?); ====================|=================================== 65 (64 serials) | (partial data) ====================|=================================== Part 2 of this article will include any available data for each airframe, like delivery date, nose art names, DS missions, status, etc. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #424 > I have a picture of a U-2 that landed on a carrier at sea. I also have > seen a picture of a C-130 that landed on the deck of a carrier (how else > did it get there?). I think the C-17 could do it with the right wind I saw a video of a C-130 landing in a carrier... scary!!! If the pilot make a big mistake, it will be catastrofic... I think that is one of the reason that they don't do that no more (for security reason) May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: suhler@xanthus.usc.edu (Paul A. Suhler) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 95 21:56:07 PDT Subject: Convair's Blackbird Competitor? Convair, as well as Lockheed, submitted a design to the CIA under Project Gusto in the late 1950s. Lockheed won and the Blackbird was the result. Does anyone know anything about the Convair design? All I've ever seen were some projected performance figures in a Crickmore book. What did the thing look like? Blue skies, Paul Suhler ------------------------------ From: BilBK@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:41:32 -0400 Subject: GPS Regarding GPS. The Federal Aviation Administration has (and is continuing) to establish GPS instrument approaches at airports around the U.S. Using FAA certified GPS receivers, the approaches are at the same level of precision as VOR approaches. There is on going work on the differential GPS (DGPS) system which entails 1) locating a GPS receiver on the airport, 2) calculating the difference in the location derived from the "degraded" signal and the known location of the DGPS receiver, 3) transmitting a "correction factor" to be applied by compatible airborne DGPS receivers. This method can produce an accuracy of less than 1 meter. The accuracy depends on how many GPS satellite signals your receiver is capable of tracking (generally [I think], five will give the best, down to 0.5 meter in accuracy). Honeywell ran some tests at Langley in 1993 using a NASA B737. They flew approximately 100 DGPS approaches to a runway that also had a CAT III Instrument Landing System (currently the most accurate approach widely used). As I recall, over 85% of the approaches were flown (by hand, not coupled to an autopilot) to within a closer precision to the "ideal" localizer (centerline) and glidepath than the tolerances of the ILS signal. That is, the DGPS localizer/glidepath cockpit display presented position information more accurately than the ILS display. The FAA has suspended the installation of the Microwave Landing System in lieu of the emerging DGPS technology. Eventual plans are to decommission VHF/UHF navigation stations (VORs and TACANs) and run the National Airspace System using GPS navigation. Memory disclaimer: The above is based on my recollection of articles read in "Space Week" (a newsprint mag by AW&ST), a report from the Radio Technical Commission on Aviation, work on the National Airspace Modernization Program, other readings, conversations, rumors, and writings on bathroom walls. Bill Kunce (The only opinions I have are the one's my) (wife gives me. Oh yeah. My kids too. AND) (the dog, two cats, & a Siberian Dwarf ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #428 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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