From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #440 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 30 September 1995 Volume 05 : Number 440 In this issue: Metal & Paint Reflectivity Endothermic Fuels Re: Just curious (fwd) Terry's FWDs Re: Terry's FWDs "Official" Release on Roswell Incident Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #439 Re: Terry's FWDs Re: Terry's FWDs Re: Just curious (fwd) Re: Metal & Paint Reflectivity Re: Just curious (fwd) Re: Terry's FWDs Re: Just curious (fwd) Re: Terry's FWDs Re: Just curious (fwd) chickens and cannons Last KC-135Q See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:35:02 EST Subject: Metal & Paint Reflectivity Forwarded from the SPACE TECH list: Date: 25 Sep 1995 18:07:16 GMT From: Tim Kelly Subject: Hello Aurora, Goodby Blackbird In article <43r69g$lsm@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, raistlin@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Paul Ready) says: > >On the Blackbird, the paint had to be black not only for "stealthy" >reasons, but also because black is the most efficient color for radiating >heat. Black in the visible does not always transalate into IR "black". There are some nickle chromes that appear very black but have emissivities like 0.05 to 0.10. Your run-of-the-mill white paint has the same emmissivity at black paint, about 0.90 The Shuttle Orbiter tiles, both white and black, are the same base material. The selection of "color" was based on peak temperature not heat rejection. Imagine an all white orbiter. After the first mission the bottom side where it gets the hottest would be discolored. Now you have to perform two (2) on-orbit thermal analyses. One for a clean configuration and one for the dirty configuration. Remember while in orbit you worry about absorbed albedo when performing your heat balance. Absorbed Abedo and solar are functions of visible suface finish. (i.e. color) So . . . it was decided you might as well start black as the surface will get black eventually. Tim Kelly Thermal Engineer working TPS at RI in 1972 > The shuttle uses ceramic heat tiles that need to be replaced, and >its supersonic duration is relatively short. In addition the bottom of >the orbitor is painted black instead of white. A re-entry vehicle has >different thermal problems, a higher temperature but less duration. - ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 1995 22:51:40 GMT From: Simon Rowland Subject: Hello Aurora, Goodby Blackbird OK then. Titanium has a melting point of 1943 C. Tungsten has a melting point of 3680 C. Am I missing something? Even if only an outer shell was tungsten, or it was a tungsten/titanium alloy, there's a bonus here... About killing the paint. Oops. I assumed that reflective metal would reflect the energy more then a colour, but I'd forgotten that the energy is generated by the friction and must be radiated (but then why are radiator panels on STS and ISS metal?!). Still confused. ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:27:56 EST Subject: Endothermic Fuels Forwarded from SPACE TECH list: Date: 25 Sep 1995 11:35:00 -0400 From: Daniel Risacher Subject: Hello Aurora, Goodby Blackbird Can anyone summarize the state of the art in endothermic fuels? I.e. I know that the USAF (wright labs) has done some research into fuels which, when piped along leading edges, react endothermically. (i.e. absorb aerothermic heat) Then, in the different, oxidizing, environment of the engine, the same fuel reacts exothermically. I don't know much about this, can anyone help? (Maybe Aurora does this?) - -- Daniel Robert Risacher magnus@mit.edu http://www.im.lcs.mit.edu/~magnus/ ------------------------------ From: Kean Stump Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Just curious (fwd) Garhh. Not enough coffee yet. This one will go to the list. Kean Stump Information Services kean@ucs.orst.edu Oregon State University OSU doesn't pay me to have official opinions. (503)-737-4740 - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:17:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Kean Stump To: Daniel Thomson Cc: skunk-works-digest-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Subject: Re: Just curious (fwd) Comments please. Do you (skunk-works) gain from Colvin's forwarded postings? Mail me or the list, as you wish. If the sentiment goes for cutting Terry off the list, then the discussion needs to be public. kean Kean Stump Information Services kean@ucs.orst.edu Oregon State University OSU doesn't pay me to have official opinions. (503)-737-4740 ------------------------------ From: RHOEFELM Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Terry's FWDs Hi, I find Terry's fwds interesting, and entertaining at times. Let them be. Thanks, Ralph S. Hoefelmeyer rhoefelm-cos3@kaman.com Dire_Wolf 70436.511@compuserve.com Enjoy Nature ... From the Top of the Food Chain ------------------------------ From: Indiana Joe Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Terry's FWDs Well, I read sci.space.tech. A lot of Terry's fwds seem to be more directed at that audience than this one, although they are marginally on-topic here. Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag." jrc@pcnet.com | - Charlie Chaplin ------------------------------ From: Gschaffe@mic01.redstone.army.mil Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 14:17:49 CDT Subject: "Official" Release on Roswell Incident I know this ain't (probably real) skunky, but here is the text of the official DoD release on the status of the Roswell "cover-up". Of course it's pretty bland, but it provides pointer to the official report's availability, for those who are interested. Glenn Schaffer Pasted text follows. Memorandum Number: No. 213-M September 27, 1995 MEMORANDUM FOR CORRESPONDENTS In September 1994 the Air Force announced the completion of an Air Force study to locate records that would explain an alleged 1947 UFO incident. The Air Force research did not locate or develop any information that the "Roswell Incident" was a UFO event nor was there any indication of a "cover-up" by the Air Force. Information obtained through exhaustive records searches and interviews indicated the material recovered near Roswell was consistent with a balloon device of the type used in a then-classified project. No records indicated, or even hinted at, the recovery of "alien" bodies or extraterrestrial materials. At the time of the report all documentation related to this case was declassified and a summary of the report without the attachments was made available to the public. There was also limited availability to the full report. The full report, with attachments, is now available through the Superintendent of Documents. The item number is 008-070-00697-9 and the price is $52. The Superintendent of Documents order processing number is (202) 512-1800. -END- ------------------------------ From: clarence@spooky.chinalake.navy.mil (Clarence Dent) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:43:52 -0800 Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #439 >From: "Ohmer, Thomas J." >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 09:10:00 edt >Subject: _Science_News_ newsmagazine > >Way cool photo on the cover of the September 23, 1995 issue. The >caption on page 195 (actually the first page inside the cover) is: > > Cover: A NASA F-16XL (below) gets ready to probe the shock waves > generated by an SR-71A as part of a sonic boom research program > conducted at the Dryden Flight Research Center in Edwards, Calif. > Information from the program will guide efforts to develop a > commercial high-speed transport quieter than current supersonic > airliners. (Photo: NASA) > >I looked *real* close, but can't tell if that's Mary in the Falcon >or not. :-) > >I thought it was amusing that they felt the need to distinguish the >two aircraft with the "(below)", like *anybody* who reads that rag >would not know which was which. The associated two-page article is >totally non-Skunky. > > > -- >Tom Ohmer, Computer Specialist, DSDC-AA 1 614 692 8059 It looked really cool from here! We got to watch several flyovers here a few months ago. The F-16 was hardly visible even at a low altitude because of the haze, but there was no mistaking the Blackbird! And the booms were really excellent! Clarence@spooky.chinalake.navy.mil "Jet Noise: The sound of a paycheck" ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Terry's FWDs Most of Terry's postings (forwarded or not) are (more or less) on topic and sometimes also interesting. The few off-topic ones are not worse than the occasional 'frozen chickens' or 'sail boat' posts. I don't mind them. - -- Andreas [not always on topic, either] - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: kuryakin@arn.net (Rick Pavek) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:41:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Terry's FWDs I'll ditto that. I have no problem with his posts. Well... except, perhaps, the formatting when the lines run-out over the edge and wrap. :} But there's no reason to excommunicate him. That would be cruel and unusual punishment. Just lay back and enjoy it. Rick +Hi, +I find Terry's fwds interesting, and entertaining at times. Let them be. +Thanks, + +Ralph S. Hoefelmeyer rhoefelm-cos3@kaman.com +Dire_Wolf 70436.511@compuserve.com +Enjoy Nature ... From the Top of the Food Chain Rick Pavek | Get Windows '95!! It's kuryakin@arn.net | the last Microsoft game Graphics and HTML for hire | you'll _ever_ want to Play! http://northshore.shore.net/~wxcentrl/uncle/index.html ------------------------------ From: mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 15:57:37 EDT Subject: Re: Just curious (fwd) Well, if we can talk about chickens, I guess we can talk about technical/speculative issues, too. Besides, it fills the dull times when we don't have a hot button to push. Usually the whole group ignores or jumps in or jumps down on the issues. I've gone through all 3 and I probably still haven't learned what's right. Paul mangan@kodak.com > From skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Fri Sep 29 14:35:40 1995 > X-Sender: kean@gaia > To: skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > Subject: Re: Just curious (fwd) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Sender: skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > Content-Length: 970 > X-Lines: 24 > > Garhh. Not enough coffee yet. This one will go to the list. > > Kean Stump Information Services > kean@ucs.orst.edu Oregon State University > OSU doesn't pay me to have official opinions. (503)-737-4740 > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:17:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Kean Stump > To: Daniel Thomson > Cc: skunk-works-digest-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > Subject: Re: Just curious (fwd) > > Comments please. Do you (skunk-works) gain from Colvin's forwarded postings? > Mail me or the list, as you wish. If the sentiment goes for cutting > Terry off the list, then the discussion needs to be public. > > kean > > Kean Stump Information Services > kean@ucs.orst.edu Oregon State University > OSU doesn't pay me to have official opinions. (503)-737-4740 > > > ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 16:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Metal & Paint Reflectivity > > The Shuttle Orbiter tiles, both white and black, are the same base material. > The selection of "color" was based on peak temperature not heat rejection. > > Imagine an all white orbiter. After the first mission the bottom side where > it gets the hottest would be discolored. Now you have to perform two (2) > on-orbit > thermal analyses. One for a clean configuration and one for the dirty > configuration. > Remember while in orbit you worry about absorbed albedo when performing your > heat balance. Absorbed Abedo and solar are functions of visible suface finish. > (i.e. color) > > So . . . it was decided you might as well start black as the surface will get > black eventually. > > Tim Kelly > Thermal Engineer working > TPS at RI in 1972 So, why don't leave the space shuttle all black instead of painting some portion with white color and then discolored... I guess the white color is used to reflect radiation from the sun... May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 29-Sep-1995 1628 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 16:36:51 EDT Subject: Re: Just curious (fwd) Kean, Since many, if not most, of Terry's posts are forwards from other forums, I'd vote to ask him to cease forwarding messages unless they are specifically on-charter. I'll best most of those interested in skunk-works and space read sci.space.tech, most intersted in skunk-works and UFOs read the relevant groups, etc. George George Allegrezza | Digital Equipment Corporation | "Why don't they just shut up and Mobile Systems Business | take their ass-whipping like men?" Littleton MA USA | allegrezza@ljsrv2.enet.dec.com | -- Charles Barkley ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:01:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Terry's FWDs I find some are interesting. Larry ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Just curious (fwd) On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, George Allegrezza 29-Sep-1995 1628 wrote: > Kean, > > Since many, if not most, of Terry's posts are forwards from other forums, I'd > vote to ask him to cease forwarding messages unless they are specifically > on-charter. I'll best most of those interested in skunk-works and space read I'm with George. We all read, the space groups, no need to repost this stuff. Besides, TC doesn't just post a snippet, or a pointer. We get the whole dam post, ragged headers and unformatted lines and all. Forwarding, a tactic, just this side of a spam, IMO, is accomplished with just a key press and address book look-up. Now IF he appended to a snippet, an incisive comment, tying it to a skunky theme, THAT's a different polecat. ;-) Perhaps TC can start a home page and post the articles he thinks are worthy of saving there and leave us a pointer: "new stuff on my HP...". regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: David Windle Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 22:51:12 Subject: Re: Terry's FWDs Maybe I got too close to a B-2's Gravity Drive and lost some time ...and some posts:)...so who's getting upset by Terry's posts ? Most of the time they're OK by me..now as for those chickens.....hmmm.But anyway, isn't this part of the enjoyment of a global discussion group like this. I think we all love a/c, and take what ranges from a pretty serious to very technical and professional interest...and that's why it's such a great forum. Best D ------------------------------ From: sschaper@pobox.com (Steve Schaper) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:38:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Just curious (fwd) At 10:18 AM 9/29/95, Kean Stump wrote: (fwd) > >Comments please. Do you (skunk-works) gain from Colvin's forwarded postings? >Mail me or the list, as you wish. If the sentiment goes for cutting >Terry off the list, then the discussion needs to be public. Technical detail is interesting and useful. So long as it is in the clear. ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 18:15:56 EST Subject: chickens and cannons ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: chickens and cannons Author: Steve Nasypany at smtp-fhu Date: 25/9/1995 8:52 PM When I was studying Aero engineering in the mid-80's, the AF flight director for F-16 AMRAAM tests visited our campus. One of his films was the canopy testing for the 16, in which live (although drugged) chickens or turkeys in sacks where shot by a cannon into the windscreen. The canopy distorted like a soap bubble. The tests resulted in changes to the thickness of the top of the canopy. If I recall, it was shown that a too-thick top would prevent the top from rupturing first - which isn't what they wanted, since if the impact wasn't relieved there the entire canopy would fail. The canopy could survive a ~6 lb. bird strike @ 350kts. The cannon tests were started by GD for the F-111. It's supposed to be able to take a bird at 600kts. I'd bet the B-52 and B-1 also had this testing. ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Last KC-135Q Last KC-135Q leaves Fairchild by Capt. John Arias FAIRCHILD AIR FORCE BASE, Wash. (AFNS) -- Aircraft 58- 0099, the last KC-135Q model in the Air Force, was scheduled to depart here Sept. 29. Along with this departure goes the characteristic billowing black smoke and thunderous sound that accompanies every Q-model takeoff. When it returns, it'll wear the designation of a KC- 135T. This latest version of the KC-135 meets the ever-increasing demand for more efficient and reliable air refuelers, yet still retains its capability to refuel the SR-71, according to 92nd Air Refueling Wing officials. Because of the special fuel requirements of the SR-71, the Q-model was designed to isolate two separate fuel types within its fuel cells. This design gave the KC-135Q the distinction of being the only airplane capable of refueling the fastest airplane in the world. All KC-135Qs are modified from the original version, the KC-135A. The modification program started in 1966 and by 1968 a total of 56 jets made the transformation. After two fuel shortages through the 1970s and '80s, a decreasing force and an ever-increasing threat abroad, the demand for tanker support increased, officials noted. To meet this demand, changes in the KC-135 were necessary to do more with less. The answer was to upgrade the 1950s technology engines that were originally designed and built into the KC-135A. These engines, the J-57, lacked the power and fuel efficiency needed in modern wartime environment. In 1984 the first upgrade jet, the KC-135R, was accepted into the Air Force inventory. With its CFM-56 engines, it could produce over 22,000 pounds of thrust compared to the J-57s 13,500 pounds. In addition, the KC-135R was 30 percent more fuel efficient than the KC- 135A or Q. These changes meant the capability of carrying a much larger payload with much greater cost efficiency. The result was evidenced by the huge success of the air campaign over Iraq. (Arias is assigned to the 98th Air Refueling Squadron) ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #440 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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