From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #442 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Monday, 2 October 1995 Volume 05 : Number 442 In this issue: Re: _Science_News_ newsmagazine Picturing ... Terry's posts et al. Re: Terry's posts et al. It takes to paint an SR71.... Air & Space, Oct./Nov. 1995 Air International Sep. 1995 Black vs. White Paint Re: It takes to paint an SR71.... See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mary Shafer Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 03:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: _Science_News_ newsmagazine Mary was in the control room trying to help with the vectoring and the monitoring. Mary's other choice was to be out in the desert with the ground sensors and she's much too smart to do that. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Ohmer, Thomas J. wrote: > > Way cool photo on the cover of the September 23, 1995 issue. The > caption on page 195 (actually the first page inside the cover) is: > > Cover: A NASA F-16XL (below) gets ready to probe the shock waves > generated by an SR-71A as part of a sonic boom research program > conducted at the Dryden Flight Research Center in Edwards, Calif. > Information from the program will guide efforts to develop a > commercial high-speed transport quieter than current supersonic > airliners. (Photo: NASA) > > I looked *real* close, but can't tell if that's Mary in the Falcon > or not. :-) > > I thought it was amusing that they felt the need to distinguish the > two aircraft with the "(below)", like *anybody* who reads that rag > would not know which was which. The associated two-page article is > totally non-Skunky. > > > -- > Tom Ohmer, Computer Specialist, DSDC-AA 1 614 692 8059 > D.L.A. Systems Design Center, P.O. Box 1605, Columbus, OH 43216-5002 > tohmer@dsac.dla.mil ...osu-cis!dsac!tohmer > "Sorry, we're closed." -- Sam Malone ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Picturing ... As skunky as it gets, I perused an engrossing book at B&N last nite... Called "Picturing the Bomb", by the daughter of Enrico Fermi (principle author), this oversized volume is packed with info and photos. This last post by Mary, mentioning being too smart to be out in the desert with the sensors, reminded me. ;-) If you folks get a chance to look at it, check it out; lots of 'you are there' type pix, including tales of high security and misadventure and mayhem on the road to the first successful test. It's quite an amazing story seen 'up close' in this way, and contains so fascinating high speed shots of the detonation, as well as prototype implosion devices, and a reinactment of the famous 'experiment' that went awry, causing intense irradiation of several team members, one of whom didn't survive. I was surprised to hear that the original containment vessel ("Jumbo") is still at the Trinity site. See ya! regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: adrian mann Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:59:12 +0000 Subject: Terry's posts et al. 1. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't have the time to trawl the lists and newsgroups for any skunk-related info., so I think that Terry Colvins forwards are a benefit (to me at least). I vote to let him carry on. If you don't like 'em, bin 'em - easy! 2. BTW, I got a message from someone called Gail a while back from the list, but er, I binned the message by accident before replying to it - so if your out there, mail me again! 3. I remember hearing that the paint on the SR-71 was called something like "black ball" or "Iron ball", due to it containing tiny spheres of some metal (or something like that), that was either a) to help with heat dissipation, or b) to help reduce the radar cross section. Any truth in that anyone? What about the paint on the F-117 and U2 - is it just regular paint or does it have radar absorbent properties? Does this require special ground handling? Adrian Mann ------------------------------ From: Pionusman@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:32:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Terry's posts et al. The F-117's paint is a special paint. Its ingrediences are probably clasified, but it's made of RAM. I belive it is made by DuPont, but I'm not sure. ------------------------------ From: "I am the NRA." Date: Sun, 1 Oct 95 11:42:46 PDT Subject: It takes to paint an SR71.... (Sorry. Could not resist.) All i know is what i read (and a bit of emag.) It is widely reported that the paint on the SR71 is loaded with "ferrites", which are an iron bearing family of compounds, They are notable (among other things) for their ability to absorb RF, details of frequency varying with the specific ferrite used. Reportedly this paint is called "Iron Ball", presumably in reference to the Iron bearing ferrite. Ferrites and a number of other susbstances can all be lumped under the heading of RAM (Radar Absorbing Material). The specific RAM used depends on the specific application and the threat. Da Details are presumably about as "black" as it gets... regards dwp ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Air & Space, Oct./Nov. 1995 The Smithsonian's Air & Space magazine from October/November 1995 (Vol. 10, No. 4) has the following interesting articles: "You Can't Keep a Good Spyplane Down", which talks about the SR-71A reactivation. "More Historical Finds at Edwards Desert", which announces the discovery of the XB-51 and the X-1D crash sites by Peter Merlin and Tony Moore, who both took part in Skunkstock '95. "Encore for an SST", which describes the plans of NASA to use a Tu-114 for HSCT-related research flights. Museum Calendar: October 5 G.E. Aviation Lecture. "The Other Side of the Sound Barrier." Brigadier General Charles E. "Chuck" Yeager, USAF (ret.), returns to share the highlights of his colorful and history-making career. Langley Theater, 7:30 p.m. Kathryn and I will probably go to this event. The calendar also notes that no tickets or reservations are required. To find out more, call Smithsonian Information at (202) 357-2700, Mon.-Sat., 9 a.m.-4 p.m.; TTY: (202) 357-1729. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Air International Sep. 1995 The latest edition (now available in the USA) of Air International, the September 1995 issue (Vol. 49, No. 3), features the first part of another article from Dr. David Baker: "In Valleys of Shadow - The Black World of Stealth (Part One)". Dr. David Baker has previously written the two-part article about the ATF contenders in the December 1994 issue (Vol. 47, No. 6) of Air International, and the January 1995 issue (Vol. 48, No. 1): "From ATF to Lightning II -- A Bolt in Anger", and before that the two-part article about 'black' programs in the September 1994 issue (Vol. 47, No. 3) and October 1994 issue (Vol. 47, No.4): "Wizard Wars and Air Power in the 21st Century". The 'black' projects article was hyped up and promised not only a drawing of the alleged Northrop TR-3A 'Black Manta' (which was quite a joke), but also talked about the use of 30 TR-3A during Desert Storm as a matter of fact. All in all, it appeared to me like a write-up of AW&ST articles, spiced up with a lot of conjecture. The latest article (part one at least) contains quite a few errors, and it seems to me that Dr. David Baker likes to present his "funny ideas" as indisputable facts. Some of those are listed here: * He writes that the Horton IX V1 (of which two photos are included) was later equipped with engines, and redesignated Horton IX V2 (of which also a photo is included). - This is absolutely wrong, because the dismantled remains of the Ho IX V-1 (Versuchsmuster 1 = prototype 1) was found by American troops in Brandis in 1945, where it apparently was later destroyed (burned). The V-2 was a total different aircraft, and not rebuilt from the unpowered V-1 glider. * He says that the Horton IX was built as a private venture, and that Hermann Goering "saw to it that the project moved forward". - They only 'stayed in business' in the first place (in 1942, at the height of the war), because Professor Ludwig Prandtl, the head of the AVA (Aerodynamische Versuchsanstallt = Aerodynamics Research Institute) in Goettingen was impressed by their powered glider Horten IIId, which he expressed toward the RLM (Reichsluftfahrtministerium = State Air Ministry). - The project was built to (but did not quite achieve) a specification from Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering: "Project 1000x1000x1000" -- an aircraft capable of delivering a 1,000 kg bomb at a speed of 1,000 km/h over a range of 1,000 km. The project was overseen by Luftwaffenkommando IX, which was in charge of all Horton design and research efforts, but was disestablished by Generalfeldmarschall Erhard Milch soon after. This prompted the Horton brothers to create their own company, the Horton Flugzeugbau GmbH, to build the prototype. Kommando IX continued its work anyway (somewhat illegally), and the Horton IX V-1 was built for Goering by a non-existing entity, somewhat a 'black' Skunk Works operation. The V-2, on the other hand, was delayed for nearly six months by bureaucratic intervention by the RLM. * He says the Go 229 was specifically built and modified by Gotha for low RCS (Radar Cross Section) requirements, because of (still) secret German research into radar "stealth", and was supposed to use RAM (Radar Absorbing Materials) for its construction. - It is true, that the Horton IX received the RLM designation 8-229 -- 8 stood for aircraft (9 stood for aer-engines) and 229 was a sequential number -- and that it was supposed to be built in series by the Gothaer Waggonfabrik (GWF), resulting in the two designations Ho 229 (for Horton) or Go 229 (for Gotha), but: - The Horton IX was constructed in the same way as most other Horton flying wings, a steel-tube frame covered with wood, "plastic" or metal. This was not changed by Gotha. The Horton Va (in 1936/1947) and and the "Hol's der Teufel" glider (in 1935) both used a lot of synthetic material, pioneered by the Dynamit AG, of Troisdorf near Cologne. - The impregnated plywood material (called Formholz) was used mainly because metal was a strategic material and Gotha was selected to build the airframe, because they had the experience (from building other gliders) and because they had the capacity -- not for low RCS research reasons. - The V-2 was not built by Gotha at all, and the V-3 -- which was captured by the American 3rd Army's VIIIth Corps on April 14, 1945 at Gotha's factory in Friedrichsrode, and which is now in storage at Silver Hills in a sad condition (ex "T2-490") -- was only slightly modified from the original Horton specs. The same is true for the V-4 and V-5, which were found in less completed form. There were two V-6 versions (proposals), one from the Horton brothers, and one from the Gotha engineers, but none were built. * He blames the early UFO sightings in the 1940's and 1950's in the USA on secret stealth aircraft tested in and around Palmdale, based on still super-secret German WW-II research into radar-stealth. - He ignores the fact, that the US military did not even have the money to make the captured Horton IX V-3 flight worthy -- much less build and fly "a large number of unusual shapes and aerodynamic configurations". - This whole thing does not only sound like Erich von Daeniken saying that Mayan artifacts, which resemble delta-winged aircraft must indeed be models of delta-winged aircraft of an alien race, just because right now (in the 1960s) aircraft like this existed. - And of course nobody has ever heard about any of this before, because it is still classified -- lame excuse! He also spelled "Schornsteinfeger" (chimney sweep) "Schornfeinsteger", (which looks quite funny to a German). The code name was used for a program to cover U-boat snorkels with rubber, to make them less visible to ASV (Anti-Surface Vessel) radar -- some sort of RAM, indeed. He also says that "Clarence Johnson" used a "mathematically precise equation" to build a stealthy aircraft for the CIA, the A-12. I can't comment on the "Comparsion of Radar Cross-Section" table he gives, but it looks 'interesting': Aircraft Radar Cross-Section (m^2) =================================================== McDonnell Douglas F-15 405 Boeing B-52 99.5 Rockwell B-1A 10 Rockwell B-1B 1.02 Lockheed SR-71 0.014 Lockheed F-22A 0.0065 Lockheed F-117A 0.003 Northrop B-2 0.0014 "Note: the values for RCS are illustrative only and vary with aspect angle and radar frequency." For part two of this article, he promises "other stealth technologies, the operational capabilities of stealth aircraft and future, once-secret reconnaissance vehicles." Probably more "matter-of-fact" stuff about Aurora, TR-3A and "Q". - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Robin Bjorklund Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Black vs. White Paint Actually, to be technically correct, I believe that the Blackbirds use a dark blue-black paint. According to "Kelly" Johnson, from his book entitled Kelly: More Than My Share of It All, page 144: "The Blackbirds take their name from the dark blue-black paint. The color was determined after tests for emissivity - heat emission from the hot airplane in flight. Emissivity can make a difference of 50 to 80 degrees in temperature on the aircraft, so it is a critically important item. Actually, the color of the Blackbirds becomes blue as temperatures increase at high speed and altitude." Althougt he Dark Star UAV does not fly as fast or high as the SR-71 birds, it still uses white paint on the top and black on the bottom if memory serves. robin :p +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Robin L. Bjorklund Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University | | E-mail: bjorklur@db.erau.edu Humor me, and smile! | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | The only thing houseflies fear more than the Venus fly trap | | is the hanging plant. | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: "Philip R. Moyer" Date: Sun, 01 Oct 95 21:37:21 -0700 Subject: Re: It takes to paint an SR71.... >specific application and the threat. Da Details are presumably about as "blac k" >as it gets... Actually, no. I talked to an engineer in the LADC materials research group. Apparently, the paint on the SR is Lockheed product C-144. It cures at some obscenely high temperature, and it has to cure for 3 hours. So the only way to get that finish on the plane is to go fly the sucker after she's painted. For museum types who're trying to repaint, you can't use the original, obviously. The closest match is MIL-STD flat black. I don't have the number in front of me, but you modelers can correct it. From memory, it's #81640? Phil ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #442 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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