From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #492 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 1 November 1995 Volume 05 : Number 492 In this issue: Re: Report: U.S. May Use Big Blimp Re: Re[2]: Report: U.S. May Use Big Blimp The stealth blimp [repost] Re: LTA Re: Suicide injection for spy pilots poison re: LTA balloon question helium AHAA vehicle (As-Heavy-As-Air) hydrogen/helium See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fmarkus@pipeline.com (Frank Markus) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 07:36:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Report: U.S. May Use Big Blimp On Oct 30, 1995 04:07:01, 'Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com' wrote: >The use of aero-gel material would [possibly] allow a superlight airframe with >a much more efficient shape than the old NACA 0024 torpedo. What is aero-gel? >The Idea had some merit, but the Soviet approach is really vastly superior. >Their solution is HUGE ground-effects aircraft. Could these two ideas be combined? ------------------------------ From: David Windle Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:37:27 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Report: U.S. May Use Big Blimp BaDge mused: > >Is it time for my Stealth Blimp repost again??? >...... The article I have is from the '80s, from one of the west coast newspapers. It's time..! Best D ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:15:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: The stealth blimp [repost] Check this out, from the 1990s - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. AUTHOR Finger, Ron. TITLE Stealth blimp. SOURCE Graphis 49:93 Jul/Aug '93 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2. AUTHOR Medearis, John. TITLE Next Secret Weapon : The Stealth Blimp.--Feature. SOURCE Los Angeles Times: Feb 27, 1990, D, 2:4 LENGTH Long (18+ col inches). FEATURES Photograph ABSTRACT The stealth blimp, a low-cost, unmanned aircraft that will be nearly invisible to radar, is discussed. The blimp has an estimated cost of $195,000 far below the cost of the B-2 Stealth bomber. Charles Ward, the designer of the blimp, featured. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3. AUTHOR Drape, Joe. TITLE Technology on the Lighter Side : Army Developing Stealth Blimp.--News. SOURCE Atlanta Constitution: Mar 9, 1990, A, 1:5 LENGTH Long (18+ col inches). FEATURES Photograph ABSTRACT Army officials have developed a Stealth blimp, which is unmanned and invisible to radar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4. TITLE Stealth Also Comes in a Cut-Rate Blimp.--News. SOURCE New York Times: Apr 29, 1990, 3, 8:2 LENGTH Short (0-6 col inches). FEATURES Illustration ABSTRACT The Stealth blimp, a real, $195,000, lighter-than-air craft being developed for the US Army's Intelligence and Electronic Warfare Center, is discussed as a lower-budget, remote-piloted surveillance vehicle. - ----------------------------------------- regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: Clyde Prichard Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:44:12 -0700 Subject: Re: LTA I had some fun with my eleven year old (and another student) by building an eighteen foot helium blimp as a science project. I worked great, and we learned a lot! Most blimp designs I've seen could, if they so desired, take off vertically. The dominate factors in why they don't (my understanding from a LTA pilot) is that; 1) Fuel is cheap, helium is not. Because the helium molecule is so small containing it using lightweight materials is difficult. Greater volumes (they tend to use bladders) make matters worse. 2) As surmised in earlier postings, control is easier. For instance, once vertical takeoff is accomplished then how do you stop rising without venting or compressing? If you have clearance to a reasonably high departure altitude and plenty of time to rise slowly then knock your heart out. Instead of ballast, my son and I mixed our helium with air because to reduce the He loss. Pressure was necessary to keep the blimp rigid. Also, don't forget the problems with heat. Sun side bladders want to expand more than shade side bladders, etc, etc. Our wanted to sink as it passed close to cold air-conditioning ducts when flying indoors at the school. So many projects, so little time... - - Clyde - CLYDE PRICHARD Phoenix, AZ EMAIL: pricharc@agcs.com ------------------------------ From: jstone@iglou.com (John Stone) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:44:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Suicide injection for spy pilots Wei-Jen Su wrote: > Sorry if I often anyone the following topic... > I heard that pilots for U-2 and SR-71 always have with them a >suicide injection just in case they were surround by enemies... It is true?? > And if it is true, Gary Power suppose to use when he was shoot >down in URSS but he didn't... I've never heard a SR pilot talk about a poison pin or pill in their equipment. The CIA U-2 pilots apparently were given a pin with a poison on it, Powers (according to his book) was given a pin with a fast acting poison, but was told to use it if he wanted to. The CIA (once again according to Powers book) never denied that he was given the poison, and that it was up to him whether to use it or not! Best, John Stone | / ^ \ ___|___ -(.)==<.>==(.)- --------o---((.))---o-------- SR-71 Blackbird U-2 Dragon Lady John Stone jstone@iglou.com john.stone@shivasys.com U-2 and SR-71 Web Page http://wl.iglou.com/blackbird/ ------------------------------ From: Robert.Herndon@Central.Sun.COM (Robert Herndon) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 11:37:38 -0700 Subject: poison This shouldn't be taken as authoritative. I remember reading, many many years ago, that Gary Powers had a fake nickel filled with a shellfish toxin. He chose not to use it. The toxin was eventually used on a dog (after discovery by the soviets?) which died almost immediately. /r ------------------------------ From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 10:45:04 PST Subject: re: LTA I have found that the U.S. military has a number of research and development programs in the balloon field, particularly in tethered aerostats. Among the things the government has worked on are: * The Navy received a patent (#4,172,048) for gas mixture of ammonia and n-hexane that will cause a balloon to stay at a constant altitude. The Navy has also been experimenting with underwater (<= 50 meters) balloon launches. * NASA has done research (NASA-CR-2724) into using Kevlar (used in bulletproof vests) and composite materials in balloon "skins" to come up with a much stronger bag. * ARPA and other agencies have done research into a number of different balloon applications, in addition to the radar equipped aerostats that are already in use to detect drug smugglers. Among the other applications are tethered and free-floating surveillance platforms (with operating altitudes as high as 120,000 feet (36.9 kilometers), use of balloons at altitudes up to 100,000 feet (30.8 kilometers) as temporary radio relay stations (in place of satellites), and the stealth balloon previously mentioned in this newsgroup. One of the more active contractors on these programs has been Coleman Research Corp. in Huntsville, Alabama. Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com http://www.portal.com/~trader/secrecy.html ------------------------------ From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 10:58:51 PST Subject: balloon question Since we're on the subject of balloons, does anyone out there have have any thoughts on why mixtures of Helium and Hydrogen are not used? You should be able to get more lift this way. Below a certain concentration of hydrogen, the mixture would not burn like the 100% hydrogen mixture of the Hindenburg did - it would not be possible to ignite a He/H mixture. Among the possible drawbacks I see are: * It would be more difficult to contain the gas without leaks. * I'm not sure how the mixture would respond in the cooler temperatures of higher altitudes. * Mixing gases on the ground while filling the bag would be more complex than just filling the bag with helium. Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com http://www.portal.com/~trader/secrecy.html ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:08:20 PST Subject: helium Paul McGinnis writes: Since we're on the subject of balloons, does anyone out there have have any thoughts on why mixtures of Helium and Hydrogen are not used? You should be able to get more lift this way. Below a certain concentration of hydrogen, the mixture would not burn like the 100% hydrogen mixture of the Hindenburg did - it would not be possible to ignite a He/H mixture. Among the possible drawbacks I see are: * It would be more difficult to contain the gas without leaks. * I'm not sure how the mixture would respond in the cooler temperatures of higher altitudes. * Mixing gases on the ground while filling the bag would be more complex than just filling the bag with helium Cool! And we could put a tube right down the longitudinal axis. Put charges firing plutonium slug from one end, uranium from the other. Inject a little trituim at just the right instant . NOBODY ever suspects the harmless blimp. (Evil laugh). Just kidding Paul. Its my mad scientist streak coming out on Halloween. Chuck "Press the button, Max!" ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 16:47:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: AHAA vehicle (As-Heavy-As-Air) Instead of the term LTA (Lighter-Than-Air), I will use here the hopefully more accurate term 'AHAA' (As-Heavy-As-Air). :) Several AHAA vehicles were planned, projected, and/or built for and used by the US military in the last decade or so: * USN YEZ-2A, planned but now canceled AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning and Control) airship, based on the Sentinel 5000 design from Westinghouse; * small Z-2 POC (Proof-Of-Concept) vehicle, a Westinghouse Sentinel 1000, later used for drug interdiction duties; * Aerostats (tethered, airship-formed balloons), equipped with radar, used for drug interdiction and AEW duties, by the US Army, USN, and USCG; * US Army stealthy surveillance blimp UAV; * several high-altitude reconnaissance, surveillance and relay balloons; * Lockheed's small, rigid, 'triangular-shaped' LTA vehicle project; * Lockheed's and other companies proposals for extra-large LTA heavy-lift transports; Together with the existance of the Russian 'Thermoplane' POC vehicle, it seems to me that one of my favorite 'black programs', the 'Senior Citizen', might well be: - a 'manta-ray'/'triangular'-shaped, - sometimes silent flying or hovering, - sometimes relatively fast flying, - relatively big, - probably stealthy AHAA vehicle, - used as a SOF (Special Operation Forces) VSTOL (Vertical/Short Take-Off and Landing) transporter. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Robert.Herndon@Central.Sun.COM (Robert Herndon) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:54:46 -0700 Subject: hydrogen/helium What problem is using a mixture of hydrogen & helium supposed to solve? Helium has 92% of the lifting power of hydrogen. (Lift is dependent not on the gasses' weight, but the difference between the gasses' weight and that of air. Air ~30g/22l, He = ~4g/22l, H = ~2g/22l, giving lifts of 26g/22l (He) and 24g/22l (H) (all roughly at standard temp. & pressure).) Hydrogen has the liabilities of flammability and diffusibility. Hydrogen may also cause embrittlement of metals (anyone know specifics? I believe many iron & steel alloys suffer from this). Helium is also highly diffusible. The only significant advantage hydrogen has over helium is price and availability. The U.S. has virtually all of the world's reserves of helium (gas wells mostly in Texas). Unavailability of helium is why the German airships (including the Hindenburg) used hydrogen. /r ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #492 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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