From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #499 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Monday, 6 November 1995 Volume 05 : Number 499 In this issue: more ? about the First Fifty Years books Re: Very Stealth... Re: more ? about the First Fifty Years books Re: more ? about the First Fifty Years books Glass Color "no synonyms for aircraft." Which is it ? Re: "no synonyms for aircraft." Re: more ? about the First Fifty Years books Re: "no synonyms for aircraft." Re: Booms & such Re: Booms & such Aerogel resources Concorde Re: "no synonyms for aircraft." Code One Back Issues Re: "no synonyms for aircraft." Re: Aerogel resources Re: Concorde Re: Concorde/ Nth class travel See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: albert.dobyns@mwbbs.com (ALBERT DOBYNS) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 95 22:56:00 -0500 Subject: more ? about the First Fifty Years books GF> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:02:20 -0600 To: skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > Subject: Re: Skunk Works History ...snip... GF> > Now I have a new question....Why was the logo left out of the new > > book? GF> The original edition was commissioned by Lockheed as part of their > 50 year celebration. The aforementioned logo was also part of the > 50 year celebration. The new edition has some updated information, > but is not the "official" 50th anniversary issue. This, along with > the new title "Lockheed Martin" on the cover, differentiate between > the two. I guess such things are important to collectors and such... > Speaking of collectors, the original printing of the book included a > few (50 or so?) leather bound, hardbacked editions, all autographed > on the title page by Ben Rich, Dick Abrams, and Jay Miller. I have a hardbound edition of the "Lockheed SKUNK WORKS The First Fifty Year". It has a page saying it's the special edition. Mine in number 131 and is signed by Ben Rich, Sherm Mullin, Tony LeVier, Tom Morgenfeld and Jay Miller. It also has a raised seal in the lower right corner. I always thought that was a nice touch. Is this the edition you are referring to in your last sentence above? I had thought there were around 350 copies of the one I have, but I'm not sure of the number. Could it be that there is a different collector's edition that I wasn't aware of? I forget if it was you or someone else who referred to a revised edition of Jay's Skunk Works book coming out soon. Zenith Books lists a new edition and I have it on backorder. It's not expected to be shipped until end of November now. When it was first listed in the catalog I couldn't tell if it was a revised book or just that they were late in ordering current copies. So I called ZB and they couldn't tell me the copyright date. I told them to keep my order in their list. I placed the order some time around September. I am glad Jay is still writing great aviation books, but I sure miss being able to call Aerofax in Texas and catch up on new books, new info whatever. England is a bit too far for my phone bill to acommodate. I hope Jay gets connected to Internet soon. He may not have much time to reply to individual notes but whatever news he posts should be interesting. GF> In summary, I don't think there were any deep dark secrets leaked in > the book logo, and it wasn't pulled from the 2nd edition for any > security related reasons - it was all related to the 50th > anniversary of the Skunk. I still can't figure out which logo people are discussing. I wonder if the softbound edition of the First 50 Years book has any differences from the hardbound edition. Maybe I should have ordered 1 of each?! :) GF> Greg Fieser GF> (No, I am not employed by Jay Miller...) Al (also not employed by Jay Miller but always willing to recommend his books!) ps: I hope Jay's revised book has SR-71 17961 listed as being at the museum in Hutchinson, Kansas and not at the Museum of Science & Industry in Chicago. I wonder if the 2-seat A-12 will ever be restored and put on display. If the LA museum can't afford to do it, maybe the CIA will get it. They had a hand in this plane at one point, I believe. - --- þ SLMR 2.1a þ Windows 95.1A coming to your dealers soon!! ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:30:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Very Stealth... Maybe I am not a genius, but I would not cover an aircraft with a net, which seems pretty un-aerodynamic to me. But what about painting the object with glass color? - -- Andreas PS: don't follow up to this post... I can't reveal the composition of my secret glass color, anyway. - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:53:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: more ? about the First Fifty Years books Jay Miller has internet access and has been on the net for quite a while now, but not at the Skunk Works List, even though he once in a while answers posts on the Aerospace-List. He also is working (or finished working) on a new, third eddition of his very good X-Planes book, with a lot new information, and with many errors corrected. I hope that some of the errors and typos in the Skunk Works books were also corrected, and that some of the more elusive and newer projects of the Skunk Works are included -- from the infamous 'Q' over their LTAV projects to the current 'DarkStar' and JAST/JSF vehicles. I haven't seen the hardbound edition, so can't comment on any possible differences. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:30:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: more ? about the First Fifty Years books Oooops, Jay Miller's address is: JNiessen@aol.com (forgot the 'e' in Niessen, his middle name). - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 9:32:44 EST Subject: Glass Color I believe Wonder Woman has the patent on that. - -- A hundred years from now, it will not matter what kind of house I live in, how much is in my bank account, or what kind of car I drive, but the world may be a different place because I was important in the life of a child. Douglas J. Tiffany dougt@u011.oh.vp.com Varco-Pruden Buildings Van Wert, Ohio ------------------------------ From: Tracker7@eworld.com Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:49:33 -0800 Subject: "no synonyms for aircraft." I had used the word "aircraft" too often in on page and looked for alternatives in the Roget's that came with Word. All I got was "no synonyms for aircraft." I tried "airplane" and it told me "no synonyms for airplane." "Plane" referred only to geography. If I can't find help here I don't know where... Thanks, Dave ------------------------------ From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 10:18:08 EST Subject: Which is it ? Ok I have a question.. The A-12 modified to carry the D-21 drone. I have seen reference to it as the M-12 AND M-21, WHICH it the correct Mark number ? M-12 or M-21 John Szalay jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com DISCLAIMER: GE & I,Rarely see eye to eye; therfore WHY wuould I attempt to speak for them ! ------------------------------ From: freeman@netcom.com (Jay Reynolds Freeman) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:20:29 -0800 Subject: Re: "no synonyms for aircraft." > "no synonyms for..." "IFO" might work... ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:46:51 -0600 Subject: Re: more ? about the First Fifty Years books Al, I stand corrected - I stated the signatures on the title page from memory, so this weekend I dug out my copy of SWH, and the pre-publication flyer announcing the book was tucked away inside the cover. I quote: "For the serious collector, we are offering a limited edition copy (only 250) signed by retired LADC president BEN RICH, LADC president SHERM MULLIN, and LADC chief test pilot (and YF-22 first flight pilot) DAVE FERGUSON." The actual signatures may be different, since this was a PRE-publication flyer, and I don't have that hardcover edition to verify...Jay, are you on yet? Care to comment? The logo in question appears twice in my softcover copy - once on the cover (really small) and again on one of the front matter pages (bigger this time). As to the changes is the revised edition - I don't know the extent of updating done in the new printing. The most noticable change was, of course, the title change to "Lockheed Martin". Interesting, this change is only on the front cover - the title page still says just "Lockheed" (which is just fine with me). As to Aerofax - the store front closed some time ago, and I think Tom may still be running Aerofax as a mail order business only. I'll try to find out the details and post an address (if any). Greg Fieser (wishing I was employed by Jay Miller so I would have time to READ all his books!) ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:05:18 -0600 Subject: Re: "no synonyms for aircraft." > I had used the word "aircraft" too often in on page and looked for > alternatives in the Roget's that came with Word. All I got was "no synonyms > for aircraft." I tried "airplane" and it told me "no synonyms for airplane." > "Plane" referred only to geography. I don't know if the term is universal, and may not help your dilemma, but every military contract I've ever worked on always referred not to an aircraft, but a "weapons platform"... Peace, Greg Fieser ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:58:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Booms & such I don't know about BA, but the food on Air France was almost worth the extra cost. (We flew on Concorde back in the '80s when the franc was at an all-time low against the dollar and it took us three months to convince ourselves that we hadn't lost our minds to spend so much money when the gummint (actually NATO) had already bought us a perfectly adequate tourist class ticket on a 747.) Pate de fois gras, lobster, truffles, champagne, eau de framboise, edible 24-karet gold foil trim on the gateau, and so on. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, JOHN F. REGUS wrote: > > > > The incomparable Mary Schaeffer writes... > > > > >I've gone supersonic three time and at no time did I ever feel a damned > > >thing. > > Riding the Concorde confirms what Mary has said, which is why BA puts a > "Mach Meter" on the forward bulkhead, so the pax will know they have > now been supersonic. > > BTW its not worth a 20% surcharge on a 1st class ticket to save 5 hours > to London. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > + John F. Regus > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > + internet: wizard@sccsi.com > + internet: STRATACOM_WORLDNET@msn.com > + internet: jregus@aol.com > + voice : (713) 960 0045 > + data : (713) 960 0015 > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:59:33 PST Subject: Re: Booms & such Try Laker, Freddies pretty excited about his new toy! Chuck ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:06:56 PST Subject: Aerogel resources Anybody interested in more aerogel data should visit the following: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/aerogel-insulation.html The normal chem base for gels is silicon. Seems like it work great for everybody`s favorite prostesis. "They defy gravity!!" More skunky--- tomorrow time permitting: full wind tunnel data from F104B and C5A and as soon as I won`t get arrested for it (!) USAAF War Report data for YB-49, including full aero analysis. This may be better snail mailed. Chuck ------------------------------ From: "Ralph S. Hoefelmeyer" Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 10:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Concorde Hi, Based on Mary's comments on the food, and the novelty of going supersonic for those of us who are generally ground bound, who cares about a 20% surcharge? If I'm going to travel for pleasure, I might as well enjoy it. 5 extra hours in a 747, undoubtedly surrounded by unruly children and the unwashed masses? Bring on the champagne! Ralph 70436.511@compuserve.com ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:40:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "no synonyms for aircraft." Let's make another list, shall we? :) You can use: * general names like: - aircraft - airplane - design - plane - platform - machine - system - vehicle - proposal (if it doesn't exist yet) * names describing the aircraft type like: - jet - helicopter, chopper - amphibian, flying boat - glider, sailplane, hang-glider, paraglider, parachute, kite - ultralight, trike, parasail - balloon, blimp, airship, zeppelin - hovercraft, WIGE, ekranoplane - missile, rocket, launcher - UAV, RPV, drone - satellite, probe, space ship, space station, capsule * role related names like: - airliner, jetliner, propliner - transporter - bomber - fighter - target * modifiers and describers are useful too, like: - purpose (attack xxx, bomber xxx, cargo xxx, patrol xxx, reconnaissance xxx, surveillance xxx, etc.) - wing design (bi-plane, tri-plane, mid-wing, high-wing, delta, etc.) - accomodation (single-seater, two-seater, xxx-seater) * there are also more romantic euphemisms like: - flyer - bird - marvel of engineering genius - graceful lady - pig - etc. etc. etc. (as the King of Siam would say) :) - -- Andreas [having too much fun] - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:58:08 -0600 Subject: Code One Back Issues I looked through all of my back issues of GD/Lockheed's "Code One" magazine, and found only one issue that may be of interest (remember, this is primarily a mag about F-16s...) Volume 9 #1 (April 1994) contains an interview with Marta Bohn-Meyer of NASA Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards. She is the first female crewmember of NASA or USAF to fly in the SR-71. Although the article is primarily about the F-16XL/laminar flow glove experiments, a few paragraphs discuss her experiences in the SR-71. Greg Fieser ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:39:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "no synonyms for aircraft." Hey, Don't forget (maybe?): B.U.F. and "asset" I think you've got the rest. ;-) regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: Michael Chui Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 13:56:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Aerogel resources Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com writes: >Anybody interested in more aerogel data should visit the following: >http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/aerogel-insulation.html Actually, the correct URL is: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/aerogel-insulation.html ^^^^^^^ Michael Chui mchui@cs.indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: "JOHN F. REGUS" Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:01:04 -0600 Subject: Re: Concorde On 6 Nov 95 Ralph S. Hoefelmeyer shaped the electrons to say: > Based on Mary's comments on the food, and the novelty of going supersonic for > those of us who are generally ground bound, who cares about a 20% surcharge? > If I'm going to travel for pleasure, I might as well enjoy it. 5 extra hours > in a 747, undoubtedly surrounded by unruly children and the unwashed masses? > Bring on the champagne! Mai, non...c'est pas vret Ralph. If you are going to pay for a 1st class ticket, the probability of having children around are infinitely small since nothing but businessmen travel in J,C,F,P, & A class. Next time you get on a flight look and see what I mean, nothing but businessmen in the pointy end and the great unwashed in the back. Hell, I'm surprised that in steerage their isn't more traditional folk music and the stewardesses allowing the passengers to cook their own native dishes that has the same rotting milk smell that their in-tow brood reaks. Yes, bring on the National Aerospace Plane! Do it quick! The less time spent with strangers in the air the better. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + John F. Regus ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + internet: wizard@sccsi.com + internet: STRATACOM_WORLDNET@msn.com + internet: jregus@aol.com + voice : (713) 960 0045 + data : (713) 960 0015 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: "Bernie Rosen" Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:33:22 PST Subject: Re: Concorde/ Nth class travel - --Boundary-14435809-0-0 From John Regus "Hell, I'm surprised that in steerage their isn't more traditional folk music and the stewardesses allowing the passengers to cook their own native dishes that has the same rotting milk smell that their in-tow brood reaks." A friend who crewed for World Airways told me all that, and more, would occur on hajj flights (pilgrimage to Mecca). Not a pretty sight. Regards, Bernie .----------------------------------------------------. |^\ ____ | Technical Customer Manager 500 Oracle Parkway | | \_____' o o\___ | | Oracle Worldwide Support Post Office Box 659311 |\__=== N1BR _______ `> | Americas Operations Redwood Shores, CA 94065 |/ `--~~~~~===v===-v'| |____________________________________________________| o o - --Boundary-14435809-0-0 X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822 Sent: 06 Nov 1995 11:10:34 From:"JOHN F. REGUS" To: Skunk-Works,skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu,(Reply,requested),rhoefelm-cos3@kaman.com Subject: Re: Concorde X-Orcl-Application: Comments: Authenticated sender is X-Orcl-Application: Organization: STRATACOM_WORLDNET X-Orcl-Application: X-Confirm-Reading-To: "JOHN F. REGUS" X-Orcl-Application: X-Pmrqc: 1 X-Orcl-Application: Priority: normal X-Orcl-Application: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) X-Orcl-Application: Sender: skunk-works-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu X-Orcl-Application: Precedence: bulk On 6 Nov 95 Ralph S. Hoefelmeyer shaped the electrons to say: > Based on Mary's comments on the food, and the novelty of going supersonic for > those of us who are generally ground bound, who cares about a 20% surcharge? > If I'm going to travel for pleasure, I might as well enjoy it. 5 extra hours > in a 747, undoubtedly surrounded by unruly children and the unwashed masses? > Bring on the champagne! Mai, non...c'est pas vret Ralph. If you are going to pay for a 1st class ticket, the probability of having children around are infinitely small since nothing but businessmen travel in J,C,F,P, & A class. Next time you get on a flight look and see what I mean, nothing but businessmen in the pointy end and the great unwashed in the back. Hell, I'm surprised that in steerage their isn't more traditional folk music and the stewardesses allowing the passengers to cook their own native dishes that has the same rotting milk smell that their in-tow brood reaks. Yes, bring on the National Aerospace Plane! Do it quick! The less time spent with strangers in the air the better. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + John F. Regus ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + internet: wizard@sccsi.com + internet: STRATACOM_WORLDNET@msn.com + internet: jregus@aol.com + voice : (713) 960 0045 + data : (713) 960 0015 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - --Boundary-14435809-0-0-- ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #499 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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