From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #505 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 9 November 1995 Volume 05 : Number 505 In this issue: UK Stealth project Re: Booms & Such (Why not?) Re: SR-71 paint Re: "aluminum overcast" AW&ST November 6, 1995 Air Fan International, No. 2 Re: Which is it ? Re: SR-71 paint UFO Buffs Protest Bosnian Peace Talks Zenith Books "SR-71 Pilots Manual, Declassified" Re: SR-71 paint Re: SR-71 paint re: Zenith Books "SR-71 Pilots Manual, Declassified" Re: UFO Buffs Protest See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Burtenshaw Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 09:42:17 -0100 Subject: UK Stealth project Hi Skunkers Not sure if anyone's posted this (I didn't get if they did)but the current edition of Flight International has a news report about British Aerospace's HALO project. It is a research project funded by the MoD to investigate a stealth replacement for the RAF's Tornado strike aircraft. In service date is mentioned as 2013. The RAF want a twin-engined, stealth aircraft with internal carraige of munitions. The Warton factory of BAe has been nicknamed the Skunk Works - original it ain't!! One option mentioned was to buy the production version of the JAST if it ever gets that far. Interesting artists impression of the HALO in flight. Also on page 60 a picture of a SR71 in flight with nice diamond shockwaves in its exhaust. And finally another article asks the question "what replaces the F-111" and the answer it seems is the F-15E and EF-18 (if built) for EF-111A role. No mention of any stealthy black projects though.... Regards John =========================================================================== John Burtenshaw Systems Administrator, The Computer Centre, Bournemouth University - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Postal Address: Talbot Campus, Fern Barrow, POOLE, Dorset, BH12 5BB U.K. Internet: jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk Phone: 01202 595089 Fax: 01202 513293 AX.25: g1hok@gb7bnm.#45.gbr.eu. AMPRnet: g1hok.ampr.org. (44.131.17.82) CompuServe: 100336.3113@compuserve.com =========================================================================== ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 04:00:30 PST Subject: Re: Booms & Such (Why not?) Well done, Joe! I`ll pick a couple of tiny nits but only in the FYI trivia vein. The shock wave itself is very, very, very, very, very, very, .............nvery thin. Its on the order of molecules. The angle part was correct for attached shock waves. The bow wave is a detached wave. The detached wave results in a lot more drag. Notice that the SR71, and the F104 have very pointy noses and sharp wings. Compare with the Space Shuttle (which travels at Mach 25 and lands at 300mph!) which has very blunt features. This comes from the fact that the heat transfer is inversely proportional to the feature radius. This is a result of the shock wave being in front of the vehicle rather than attached. Then there`s always the "strong shock" vs. the "weak shock". Good that you understand thermo. Once you get into gas dynamics you run into gamma, the ratio of specific heats at least twice in every equation. (actually, it is almost always either gamma + 1 or gamma - 1, think about it) Additional: I still have the wind tunnel data to get out. I`ve been starting work in the dark and leaving in the dark for the past week. I have it on my box at home. This presents two barriers. One, I hit the recliner and fall asleep, or two, Janis has the computer tied up playing Buried in Time, (she finished Myst in less than a week.) The YB49 stuff will need to be scanned or photocopied. Chuck ------------------------------ From: fmarkus@pipeline.com (Frank Markus) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:37:34 -0500 Subject: Re: SR-71 paint On Nov 09, 1995 00:00:22, 'Michael Chui ' wrote: >Wei-Jen Su writes: >> I heard from a interview with Ben Rich that there was a time when >>a General asked the Skunk Works eng. to paint the identification letters >>on the SR-71, eg: country (USAF), USAF logo, etc. >> Ben Rich told him that there is no way you can do it because the >>speed of the aircraft will ripe all the paint off... But the General >>insisted, so they have to come out with a 1 million dollars in >>development for the special paint!!!! > > From _Skunk Works_ (Rich, B. and Janos, L., 1994), p. 327: > >"...Another frustrating example was the stubborn insistence of the >Air Force to have its insignia painted on the wings and fuselage of >the SR-71 Blackbird, even though no one would ever see it at >eighty-five thousand feet; finding a way to keep the enamel from >burning off under the enormous surface temperatures and maintain >its true red, white, and blue colors took our chief chemist, Mel >George, weeks of experimentation and cost the government thousands >of unnecessary dollars." > >Michael Chui >mchui@cs.indiana.edu > Isn't it a requirement of international law that all millitary aircraft display their national insignia? This requirement has recently been evaded by the painting of the American insignia (circle bars and star) in faded-looking low contrast colors that are virtually invisible. Other nations have followed our lead. It is likely that the general was right in insisting that the Blackbird display the national insignia which at that time was always in three colors. ------------------------------ From: TODD R CASPELL Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 04:38:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: "aluminum overcast" Ralph,Am now in Annapolis Wa.right across the bay from beautiful Bremerton where the navy parks the Nimitz. So I get some interesting stuff in my airspace. Like the time I got checked out at wavetop by a flight of A2s heading home for Widby when out in the canoe (wow- so big so quiet so slow so grey -like spaceships or ghosts). Whenever the Nimitz goes out or comes back they sweep the bay for subs with a Sea King (used to be 2-budget cuts). As Im pretty subversive looking they usually check me out real good if Im in the boat. Am also between Boeing field and Brem. airport. Sometimes Boeing does flight test out this way. Have had B-17 & B-25 fly overs (LOVE the sound of those big radials,like Gods Harley). We get a Mig for the airshow at Brem. that does fantastic arobatics at night while spewing multi colored sparks-better than fireworks. Dont know what it is just that its Russian and seems to have 2 engines. Anyone know? Had a nice flyover by WW 2 carrier planes of the MO for V-J day. I think the best was when the Blue Angles were paying their respects to the Nimitz and flew (in beautiful formation of course) RIGHT over my house,twice&Low. TODD On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Ralph S. Hoefelmeyer wrote: > Todd, > That's probably true now. The B-36 was around in the 50's, and it was huge, > both then and now. I have seen a large number of C-141's, and yes they're big > enough to qualify. > Where are you at now? No runways nearby? Here in Colorado Springs, CO, we > have the USAF Academy, so every time they have a football game, we are treated > to flyovers of *all* kinds of a/c. I've seen everything from F/A-18s to F-117s > to B-52s, *and*, even better, their approach run is right over my house. Kind > of noisy, but at 1100 on a Saturday morning, who cares? > Thanks, Ralph > > >Well no.It is the Lockheed C-141 A Starlifter. As I"grew up" 10 miles from > >McCord AFB and spent many happy hours at the end of the runway,I should know. > >Really though, I bet every Huge aircraft has been called the Al.overcast. > > Thanks Todd > > > > > EVERYONE wants T R Caspell mr. Toads wild ride. Todd Royall Caspell RIDE LOTS Tord and sundry (expressed opinions not necessarily of my brain) ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:28:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: AW&ST November 6, 1995 LETTERS, page 6: ================ Col. Richard Graham (USAF, Ret.) from Plano, TX, writes the following: "I could not agree more with your editorial to compete the SR-71's unique reconnaissance capabilities against the U-2 and the Tier 2+ and Tier 3- drones (AW&ST Oct. 16, p. 66). However, the fight for SR-71 reactivation has been uphill ever since Congress mandated its return to service in Fiscal '95. The Air Force does not want to see it succeed. The SR-71 is not funded or supported by either the Air Force or the agency appointed to oversee its return, the Defense Airborne Reconnaissance Office. Either through military politics or a con[s]cious decision, the SR-71's reactivation is following a course of atrophy. Even though many people are seeking the most effective, economical use of the SR-71, the USAF continues to resist with lack of positive action, funding and leadership." INDUSTRY OUTLOOK, page 13: ========================== "MAKING TURBULENCE OBSOLETE: A Ballistic Missile Defense spinoff may take the bounce out of future flights. Miniature, lightweight thin-film sensor technology has been developed that can be embedded directly in aircraft composite structure. As envisioned, the autonomous, piezo-electric sensors would be adapted to sense turbulence-induced changes in aircraft attitudes and positioned at key locations in commercial and military transport airframes. Aircraft flight controls would be computer-adjusted to compensate, according to Hugh Murray, project leader for the Satellite Attack Warning Assessment and Flight Experiment at Los Alamos (N.M.) National Laboratory[.]" NEWS BREAKS, page 17: ===================== "An F-117 crash report raises questions about the layout of the aircraft's cockpit. U.S. Air Force investigators conclude that the May 10 fatal crash of an F-117 near Zuni, N.M., was probably caused by disorientation of the pilot, Capt. Kenneth W. Levens. Investigators said if Levens was using the Data Entry Panel with his left hand, his arm would have blocked two crucial attitude references. They noted several aspects of the cockpit layout that could contribute to pilot disorientation, such as the distance between altitude indic[a]tors, limited visibility due to the stealth aircraft's canopy and flat plane characteristics of the windscreen that cause refractory illusions. Concerns about the cockpit design had previously been aired during the investigation of a 1986 F-117A crash." [No mentioning of the disengaged, defective autopilot here.] WASHINGTON OUTLOOK, page 19: ============================ "INTEL, SCHMINTEL: The Air Combat Command chief, Gen. Joseph Ralston, widely considered a contender for next chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, dismisses claims that disinformation passed on by CIA double agents led the U.S. to overspend on weapons. Ralston, who helped write requirements for the next-generation F-22, said, "Intelligence input was a factor, but not the only factor." Ralston said technological breakthroughs by industry were more important to U.S. aircraft designs than either Soviet threats or Air Force analysis. "There is this great theory... that you get some operators in a room and they figure out what it is you need," Ralston said. "That may work 1% of the time; 99% of the time industry has come up with new ideas." He noted, for example, that stealth technology -- the F-117 -- was not dreamed up by Air Force fighter pilots; it was inspired by industry." NASA SUSPENDS X-34 BOOSTER, page 30: ==================================== Because Rockwell and Orbital Science apparently want to use their own (Rocketdyne) RS-27 engine, instead of the planned Russian RD-120, NASA suspended the program for two weeks. The RS-27 will probably delay the program by several months, and will result in a more expensive, and 25% less payload carrying X-34. The president-to-be of the Rockwell/OS joint venture for the X-34, to be called American Space Lines, said the reason for the switch is the higher flight experience (125 flights, compared with 25 for the RD-120) and a higher probability of continued availability for the American engine. The much more ambitious X-33 SSTO (Single-Stage-To-Orbit) RLV (Reusable Launch Vehicle) demonstrator is having its own set of problems. The X-plane test vehicle program seems to be structured more like a procurement program, and does not have enough money assigned up front to fund more than one vehicle. Hopes are that 2 test vehicle can be obtained, to ensure a straight forward and rigorous test flight program. AVIONICS LAB BEGINS F-22 COCKPIT TESTS, page 52: ================================================ Boeing is testing the highly integrated and complex software and hardware of the F-22's avionic system at their dedicated 20,000 sq.ft. floor-space Avionics Integration Laboratory. Besides an extensive test equipment (valued at $25 million when fully installed), they have a single seat cockpit mockup and plan to have a rear cockpit (of the trainer version), too. Adjacent to the lab, located in Boeing's Integrated Technology Development Laboratory (ITDL) in Seatle, WA, they have a 130 ft. high tower, on which an F-22 forebody, left wing, right wingtip and tailboom will be installed. The Boeing owned 757, which will be equipped with an F-22 nose section and, on top of the fuselage, behind the cockpit, an F-22 wing section, will fly about 1,400 hours to test sensor fusion. The greatest challenge of the test program, valued at $11 billion, will apparently be the software integration of the complete system, rather than individual avionics. FILTER CENTER, page 57: ======================= "The Virginia Air National Guard is flying the first two production versions of an F-16 integrated electro-optical reconnaissance pod made by Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems. The E-O pod features faster imagery turnaround and substantially reduced logistics requirements than film-based systems. Under the U.S. Air Force's Big Safari program, the company's Ft. Worth unit produced, integrated, tested and delivered the first two systems in less than five months. The pod comprises a Recon/Optical E-O framing focal plane array mated with a modified KS-87 camera, an Ampex digital cartridge recorder and a TERMA Elektronik of Denmark cockpit controller." GUNSMOKE CREATES 'FOG OF WAR', pages 74-75: =========================================== During the smaller than usual, biennial, and delayed exercise, an F-117A was 'shot down' by friendly (AFRes) forces, due to confusion and the fact that they were not flying 'stealthy'. The exercise included six teams (compared with 1993's 17 teams), each consisting of 4 offensive counter air fighters (F-15s or F-16s), four interdiction aircraft (F-15Es or F-111s), four precision-guided munition carriers (F-15Es or F-111s), two heavy bombers (B-52Hs or B-1Bs), four close air support aircraft (A-10As or F-16s) and one stealth aircaft (F-117A). The highest bombing scores were as follows: - B-1B: 37th BS, Ellsworth AFB, SD; with 73%; - A-10A: 355th FS, Eielson AFB, AK; - F-15E: 336th FS, Seymour Johnson AFB, NC; - F-16: 13th/14th FS, Misawa AB, Japan; - F-111: 523 FS, Cannon AFB, NM; - F-117A: 8th FS, Holloman AFB, NM; - B-52H: 93rd BS, Barksdale AFB, LA; Also an RC-135V/W 'Rivet Joint' SIGINT aircraft as well as E-3A/B/C Sentry AWACS and several KC-135 and/or KC-10 tankers were used in supporting roles, while nine USMC F/A-18 'aggressors' were grounded, reducing the 'red force' to four adversaries instead of seven for each of the groups. In 1997, the participation of B-2 bombers, U-2s for pre- and post-strike target analysis, SEAD and jamming aircraft, and space assets for improvements of the Red Flag Measurement and Debriefing System will be added, to even further improve the realism of the exercise. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:43:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Air Fan International, No. 2 The second Air Fan International, Vol. 1, No. 2, November/December 1995, has put a special emphasis on reconnaissance aircraft, starting with Rene J. Francillon's Editorial, which questions the existence of Northrop TR-3As and Lockheed Auroras. The "News & Views" section by Tom Kaminiski, has mainly old news, including the RAH-66As roll-out in May, Lockheed's reactivation of SR-71s (which the author says was "Developed from the A-11/YF-12 series"), Lockheed's new real-time reconnaissance pod tested by ANG F-16s, and others. The first article, "Phantom II... an American Legend", by Rene J. Francillon, details the history of the RF-4C. It is in response to the retirement of the last RF-4Cs in USAF service, the aircraft of the 192nd RS, 152nd RG, "High Rollers" of the Nevada ANG, based at Reno, NV. The second article, "Air Power '96" (Part One), by Jean-Loup Cardey and Olivier Cabiac, describes the latest military aircraft types. It actually includes some older designs and a civilian aircraft, but gives technical data, some background information and one or two good photos for each entry. The following aircraft are featured (quoted as printed): Tu-160 Blackjack, Rafale M01, Rafale B01, Cheetah, Eurofighter, C-17A Globemaster III, E-8A Joint-STARS, F-117 Nighthawk, HAC Tigre, AH-64A/D Apache, MiG-29 Fulcrum, A300-600T Beluga, Tornado, X-31 EFM, V-22 Osprey, Su-35 Super Flanker, JAS 39 Gripen. [Noergel mode on] Why the Airbus, while relatively new, is listed with all those other military aircraft, is beyond me. Also, Rafale M01 and B01 are two specific airframes and not versions (which would be Rafale M and B), and the X-31A as well as the F-117A are missing their 'A', while the F-117A and Tornado are not really the newest aircraft designs around. [Noergel mode off] The fifth article, "Recon over Champagne", by Olivier Klene, features yet another reconnaissance aircraft, the AMD/BA (Avions Marcel Dassault/Breguet Aviation) Mirage F1.CR (the dot is voluntary). It includes a nice description of the sensors used -- with example photos, including: Omera 40 and Omera 33 cameras, Raphael-TH SLAR, Super Cyclope IR linescanner, and the ASTAC ELINT pod. It describes a training mission over France and includes pictures of the mission planning, air refueling, cockpit details, etc. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:45:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Which is it ? The following is Jay Miller's response to my MD-21 post on this list -- forwarded with his permission: >Andreas, >Your response is right on the money. I discussed this designation with >Lockheed (specifically with Dick Abrams, then-director of Skunk Works flight >test) at great length. Dick stated over and over again that Lockheed >documentation and personnel referred to the carrier very specifically as an >M-21, and when carrying a D-21, referred to it as MD-21. >It also should be emphasized that the M-21s (of which there were two) were >purpose-built aircraft and not simply modified A-12s. This is an important >point and one often overlooked when these aircraft are discussed. >There is no equivocating on any of the above...and there are no other >accurate, applicable designations. >Jay Miller - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: neil@bedford.progress.COM (Neil Galarneau) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 09:54:57 EST Subject: Re: SR-71 paint Frank Markus said: > Isn't it a requirement of international law that all millitary aircraft > display their national insignia? This requirement has recently been evaded > by the painting of the American insignia (circle bars and star) in > faded-looking low contrast colors that are virtually invisible. Evaded ... gimme a break. Its not a subversive plot. Very simply, you don't want to attract attention to yourself in combat. Its not just the insignia which has been muted; the squadron colors were also. > Other > nations have followed our lead. It is likely that the general was right in > insisting that the Blackbird display the national insignia which at that > time was always in three colors. What's the purpose of the insignia? To have pretty colors on the a/c or to know where the a/c is from? No one else on the planet has the Blackbird and its kinda unique-looking. Neil neil@progress.com ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 07:34:12 EST Subject: UFO Buffs Protest Bosnian Peace Talks Forwarded forward from the FocusUFO list-TWC-: Author: Forum@focusufo.net at smtp-fhu Date: 8/11/1995 2:06 PM >Source: alt.alien.visitors >From: an192826@anon.penet.fi (Sue I. Generis) >Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:48:37 UTC UFO BUFFS PROTEST BOSNIAN PEACE TALKS DAYTON, Ohio, Nov. 4 (UPI) -- Officials at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton are refusing comment Saturday on charges by a UFO-group spokesman that the Bosnian talks at the base would soon result in a peace agreement because of extraterrestrials. Richard Hoagland heads Mars Mission, a New Jersey headquartered 20, 000-member group, which believes evidence exists that human civilization once existed on the moon and Mars. He predicted to the Cincinnati Enquirer that a peace agreement would result after the Serbian, Bosnian and Croat presidents had seen "them." Hoagland was referring to rumors that the Air Force is conducting extraterrestrial research at Wright-Patterson and that the base's "Hangar 18" houses alien bodies and a destroyed space craft found after a 1947 crash in Roswell, N.M. and taken to Ohio for storage and secret research. He said the three leaders are at Wright-Patterson for a specific purpose. "We're being prepared for an interplanetary war. Events are coming to a head." Hoagland believes Earth's leaders are attempting to settle all of the world's conflicts before preparing for a war against other humanoid civilization in outer space. "Think of all the centers of world government," Hoagland told the newspaper. "The Hague, Geneva, Camp David...Dayton is not on the list.. .I just think it stinks to high heaven." Joe Nickell, senior researcher for the Buffalo-headquartered Skeptical Inquirer magazine, would only say of Hoagland: "A mind is a terrible thing to waste... little pickled humanoids? Peace talks? I don't know how you could ever link the two." Copyright 1995 The United Press International ------------------------------ From: mjohnson@rambus.com (Mark Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 7:30:44 PST Subject: Zenith Books "SR-71 Pilots Manual, Declassified" I recently got a catalog from Zenith Books that invites me to purchase a book titled as above. Has anybody on this list seen the book personally? Is it "legitimate" (for whatever definition of legitimate you prefer)? The blurb is as follows: SR-71 PILOT'S MANUAL Here it is - Recently Declassified. The official training and operating manual for the SR-71 Blackbird spyplane. This manual reveals every secret of its amazing performance & includes everything you need to know to fly it. Over 1,000 pages! Sections include a description of the aircraft, normal & emergency procedures, navigation & sensor equipment, operating limitations, flight characteriztics, & all-weather operation. Appendices on hard-to-find performance data. Softbound, 8.5 x 11", 1,024 pgs, 350 diagrams. Stock Number 117443AP ................... $99.95 They want me to dial 1-800-826-6600 and authorize a credit card expenditure of ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS. So, I'm wondering, izzit for real? Thanks, Mark Johnson ------------------------------ From: Michael Chui Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 10:40:56 -0500 Subject: Re: SR-71 paint fmarkus@pipeline.com (Frank Markus) writes: >This requirement has recently been evaded >by the painting of the American insignia (circle bars and star) in >faded-looking low contrast colors that are virtually invisible. Continuing the quote from Ben Rich's book (p. 327) about paint on the SR-71: "After we succeeded, the Air Force decided that the white on the emblem was too easy to spot from the ground, so we repainted it pink." Michael Chui mchui@cs.indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: John Burtenshaw Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 15:41:23 -0100 Subject: Re: SR-71 paint At 07:37 09/11/95 -0500, you wrote: > >Isn't it a requirement of international law that all millitary aircraft >display their national insignia? This requirement has recently been evaded >by the painting of the American insignia (circle bars and star) in >faded-looking low contrast colors that are virtually invisible. Other >nations have followed our lead. It is likely that the general was right in >insisting that the Blackbird display the national insignia which at that >time was always in three colors. > Hi Frank I thought so too but the Blackbirds that I saw in the UK during the 1980's until they left Mildenhall only carried the serial number on the tails. You could see where the national markings had been painted out. If it was for security then it was real bad idea, I mean how many nations flew the SR-71 :-) Is there an International lawyer in the house;-> Regards John =========================================================================== John Burtenshaw Systems Administrator, The Computer Centre, Bournemouth University - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Postal Address: Talbot Campus, Fern Barrow, POOLE, Dorset, BH12 5BB U.K. Internet: jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk Phone: 01202 595089 Fax: 01202 513293 AX.25: g1hok@gb7bnm.#45.gbr.eu. AMPRnet: g1hok.ampr.org. (44.131.17.82) CompuServe: 100336.3113@compuserve.com =========================================================================== ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:39:53 ÿÿÿ Subject: re: Zenith Books "SR-71 Pilots Manual, Declassified" It's the real thing, the 1989 revision. The story is that an individual got a copy from NASA and then sold it to Motorbooks (actually, since it wasn't copyrighted, once it was declassified, anyone could have probably got one through the Freedom of Information Act. If there were no copies available from stock, you'd have to pay the government's price for copying the book, which would be pretty high). Depending on which printing you have, some pages may be missing. There are about 70 pages that were pulled when the manual was declassified (dealing mostly with sensors and defensive electronics), and a couple of other pages were missed in printing. Art Hanley In compliance with the Full Employment For Lawyers Act, I must state that the Above does not represent my employer's Views, only mine ------------------------------ From: mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 14:37:45 EST Subject: Re: UFO Buffs Protest I never thought I would say this but this has been such a bad day at work that I can only say Thank You I needed something humorous to end the day on. Paul mangan@kodak.com > > UFO BUFFS PROTEST BOSNIAN PEACE TALKS > > (trash deleted) ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #505 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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