From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #514 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 19 November 1995 Volume 05 : Number 514 In this issue: Re:Optical guidance Mail failure RE: Skunk Works Digest V5 #513 SR71 flyover re: secret testing at WSMR Re: Boscombe Down UK Re: SR71 flyover See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 06:37:21 PST Subject: Re:Optical guidance Agreed, optical guidence is limited, but new horizions include wide-band optical. This means that the sensors can see into the longer wavelengths. If you bias the sensing element to the 500 nm band, the IR becomes part of the signal. What is intersting in IR is the "smart guidance" IR systems under developememt. The IR signature for supersonic flight for every aircraft type unique. The hotspots are dictated by the geometry of the A/C. Ever see the IR pictures of the Shuttle landing? Since a mathematical description can be written for each A/C type, the same type of fuzzy visual controls used in automated assembly can be used to "pick out a part" regardless of its orientation. You now have a "smart" IR missle that can`t be fooled by flares, and neglects friendly types. Pretty neat, huh? The only problem right now is at typical firing range, the image needs a lot of magnification to get enough data. The long lens required makes image stabilization difficult. It takes lot of space to put in a mechanical stabilizer. But like all aerospace challenges, give someone enough time and enough money, and it will happen. Ps: The WWW page is coming along. I have a picture of the YB init, and I scanned the cover of the NACA war report. And before any yells, the XB-53 is a typo. just cross your eyes and it will be fine! I also have a brief document I created explaining the range controversy and why it was probably the real reason the program was cancelled. Chuck ------------------------------ From: POSTMASTER@RPSPO4.ATTATLMFG.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM Date: Fri, 17 Nov 95 18:08:00 PST Subject: Mail failure [005] Mail retry count exceeded sending to: ATTATLMFG /RPSPO2 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return-Path: <@attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM:skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> Received: from attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM by attatl.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM id <30ADDCA5@attatl.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM>; Sat, 18 Nov 95 05:16:21 PST From gaia.ucs.orst.edu!skunk-works-digest Sat Nov 18 05:01 EST 1995 remote from attatl Received: by attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM; 18 Nov 95 05:01:15 EST Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub5.attgis.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with UUCP id EAA12599 for rpspo2.atlantaga.attgis.com!cfoster; Sat, 18 Nov 1995 04:56:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 18 Nov 95 04:56:18 EST Received: (from daemon@localhost) by gaia.ucs.orst.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA25810 for skunk-works-digest-outgoing; Sat, 18 Nov 1995 00:06:03 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gaia.ucs.orst.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA25803 for skunk-works-digest-send@mail.orst.edu; Sat, 18 Nov 1995 00:06:02 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 00:06:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199511180806.AAA25803@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> From: skunk-works-digest-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #513 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Sender: skunk-works-digest-owner@gaia.ucs.orst.edu Precedence: bulk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 18 November 1995 Volume 05 : Numbe= r 513 In this issue: Air Force News Service 15nov95=20 Re: Bland Navy planes (from SR-71 paint) /Optical guidance XB35 and YB49 data requested, www links, etc Re: Bland Navy planes (from SR-71 paint) /Optical guidance Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #512 Re: Boscombe Down UK Re: Bland Navy planes (from SR-71 paint) /Optical guidance Re: Bland Navy planes (from SR-71 paint) /Optical guidance Re: Boscombe Down UK See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-wor= ks or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 95 5:40:33 EST Subject: Air Force News Service 15nov95=20 I received this from the Air Force News Service today: 1267. B-1B delivering knockout punch in Egypt by Master Sgt. Louis A. Arana-Barradas Air Force News Service CAIRO WEST AIR BASE, Egypt -- The knockout punch the B-1B bomber gives the 366th Wing makes the unit more formidable than most of the wor= ld's small air forces. And though the bomber's awesome capabilities make it one of the Air= Force's most potent weapon systems, there are still those who contend it is not = capable of defending itself. But those who fly the sleek, black bomber say critics are forgettin= g that, like the bombers that brought the Third Reich and Japan to their knees in Wor= ld War II, they too depend on their "little friends" -- the fighters -- to help= them deliver their massive bomb load. Lt. Col. Tom Hopper, commander of the composite wing's 34th Bomb Squadron, explains the relationship with an analogy. "It's like having = a great line blocking for the halfback in a football game. The halfback runs behind = his line and when close to the goal line, cuts through a hole to score a touchdow= n." Each aircraft has its own role in fighting a war, and in the wing, = he said. "When you put those parts together -- and everyone carries out their par= t of the mission -- it brings success." Hopper said the B-1B could to its part of the mission by itself. "= But by flying with the rest of the wing, it enhances our capability to do a better job= and cover an even larger target zone." Hence, one big reason for the composite wing, he said. By escorting the B-1B in and out of a mission, we can bring a lot m= ore firepower to bear on the enemy in a shorter period of time," said Col. K= en Peck, the wing commander and exercise joint forces air component commander. On a typical mission, after the fighters destroy enemy radar and an= ti-aircraft artillery and missile sites, the Lancers obliterate targets with their 4= 2,000-pound bomb payload. In the meantime, other jets provide cover against enemy f= ighters. At Bright Star, the bombers have struck against "enemy" airfields, = troop formations and oil fields -- even the Aswan Dam. On most missions, airc= raft from Egypt and France -- participating in the exercise for the first tim= e -- have joined strikes with their American counterparts. "One of the great assets of the B-1 is that it really fits well int= o the composite force because we can fly at the same altitude, the same speed and the sa= me areas as the fighters. That's the bomber's strength," Hopper said. The realistic training the bombers crews are getting at Bright Star= has shown that the participants are at different levels of expertise, said Capt. J= on Schilder, a B-1B navigator/bombardier. "With this large contingent of aircraft from foreign countries and = our own, we're seeing how well everyone can melt together into a composite packag= e to strike targets," Schilder said. And because of careful mission planning and use of multinational co= mposite strike packages during the exercise, Schilder said, "The B-1Bs have done= very well. And we've done it without having any bombers shot down in simulat= ed attacks." The 34th BS joined the wing more than a year ago, but is still base= d at Ellsworth Air Force Base, S.D. It will soon join the wing at Mountain H= ome AFB, Idaho. But Master Sgt. Michael E. Saad, a squadron expediter, said the mai= ntainers, though they have the utmost faith in the bomber's abilities, already wel= come the integration with the wing. "We're seeing how the B-1B is working really= well with the fighters. "Our bombers are flying strong pinpoint missions by working as part= of a group. It keeps our morale high," Saad said. Undeniably, the B-1B multiplies the wing's ability to wage war, Hop= per said. And he said that when used correctly, the bomber becomes the "backbone o= f our fighting force." And as evidenced in Desert Storm, Hopper said, "When our bombers st= rike a target as part of a composite wing, we terrorize a country's capability = and will to fight." - - --=20 A hundred years from now, it will not matter =20 what kind of house I live in, how much is in my bank account, or what kind of car I drive, but the world may be a different place because I was important in the life of a child. Douglas J. Tiffany dougt@u011.oh.vp.com Varco-Pruden Buildings Van Wert, Ohio - ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 05:55:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Bland Navy planes (from SR-71 paint) /Optical guidance On Thu, 16 Nov 1995, Art Hanley wrote: > There is a tie-in to the list. Part of the post I'm responding to > talked about optical sensors. Now, we know that an optical guidance > seeker heads for air-to-air missiles is well within current > technology. This poses a question for stealth aircraft design.=20 > Let's say 10 years or so from now, the F-22 is supercruising along at > M1.3 or so during the day. With a good IRST, which virtually every > contemporary fighter except the F-22 will have, the skin heating from So, how the F-22 can track a target using a IR-guide missile??=20 What IRST stand for anyway??? > friction will be enough that the aircraft should be both detectable > and trackable from a goodly distance. If our IRST-equipped foe gets > reasonably close and launches a missile that guides optically, what > is the counter? More importantly, does this sort of negate some of > the rationale for the compromises made to give the F-22 the excellent > stealth it enjoys? >=20 > Art >=20 How does the optically guides track target??? If it use the visible=20 light wavelenght, what will happen if we use this missile during night???= =20 You can not see anything. Maybe to counter any type of missile is to destroy it before it=20 get close to you... using laser beam... May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mail: wsu02@barney.poly.edu - ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 03:29:13 PST Subject: XB35 and YB49 data requested, www links, etc Folks, First, apologies to those who tried to email me at home via the WWW page = link. There was a typo in the "mailto" in the source, which has been corrected. Since the Lockheed links are so numerous, I have decided to devote my page to my favorites, the XB35 and YB49. This has the added challenge of sourcing good images and documentation. I hope it won`t be overwhelming. So, if you have any good links along the flying wing line please send them to me! I have in my possesion the NACA Wartime Reports from 1944, the wind=20 tunnel data for the `49, and some really neat other stuff about these=20 remarkable aircraft. I think I will contact the Discovery channel and ask= that=20 video frame captures from "The Wing Will Fly" be present in my resources. Hopefully, with a plug and link, they will agree.=20 The wings are fun in that they have a mystique, and an aura of conspiracy about them. I also have documentation of Foa`s calculations showing that the range calculations made by William Sears of Northrop, where in error= ------------------------------ From: Mike Freeman Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 11:47:03 -0500 Subject: RE: Skunk Works Digest V5 #513 On the North Sea sighting...could someone tell me if it's normal for a/c to fly in line abreast whilst waiting to re-fuel ? The 2 F-111s were on the port side of the KC135 as the mystery a/c appeared to take on fuel. Is that how it happens or does it appear more like the action of chase planes ? From what I've heard on this incident, the mystery plane was most probably an F-111 with its wings swept. The planes were probably not line abreast, but one refueling with the other 2 at a lower flight level, but next to eact other. This isn't an odd formation. - ---------------------------------- | Free Northern Ireland ! ! | | Cairde Sinn Fein | - ---------------------------------- begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@,0`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````$``0`!!) &`' !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&<`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!S:W5N:RUW;W)K``$P`0```"<````G`@``'@`($ $```!E M````3TY42$5.3U)42%-%05-)1TA424Y'0T]53$133TU%3TY%5$5,3$U%249) M5%-.3U)-04Q&3U)!+T-43T9,64E.3$E.14%"4D5!4U172$E,4U1704E424Y' M5$]212U&545,/U1(10`````"`0D0`0```+D"``"U`@``900``$Q:1G7EH@GI M_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K R`H,U$L<1=3 4MBY]"H (SPG9 M.QG?,C4>-0* "H$-L0M@;F%5$U!O$]!C!4!/`Z!T M+&AE![ 9@6@&46$@D0"09VAT"X!G+B#0L06@=6QD($ #<&4"(-L?D!/0; ,@ M!X @!I B4/1T)P0@;@6P`, #( (0T07 82]C'V!O"H0*]/!L:3,V'J$=OQ[& M'+!^>2)0`Z DL"&Q`: 9X&'Q$\ @=V@#$"?""W @DF4CP2 9X"UF"E #(#^, M(%0?@1'@1BTQ*C!]!"!W!) ?D (@'V(*A7 _&8$@00VP*L BX!^ _P7 M$> WX2 P&7 J@2:A(&*U)Q!E.#!L0*0AL'@%0#\HX2 @'Q%" Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 15:40:55 MST Subject: SR71 flyover Hello Skunkers, Thursday Nov 17 my wife and I heard and felt a sonic boom from an SR-71 on a training flight from Edwards AFB in the Tri- Cities (Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland) Washington. It was confirmed today in the local paper, the Tri-City Herald that Lt. Wilson Camelo, Spokesman for Beale said Edwards flew an SR-71 on a training flight at 6 pm on a route north. The Tri-Cities is near the nuclear waste storage site Hanford in southeast Washington. The newspaper reported that there were many calls from the public wondering if anything had blown up at Hanford! The BOOM lives on! Anybody know about the operations going on with the SR-71 now? Will these training flights continue and lead into periodic missions? Dave Garbrick Richland, WA dg846755@lance.colostate.edu or garbrick@cbvcp.com ------------------------------ From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Sat, 18 Nov 95 17:47:01 PST Subject: re: secret testing at WSMR In an earlier message, Joe Vincent wrote: >That road was often blocked for hours during the daytime for missle test >shots. It would be no problem to block it day or night and thus make the >nearest road to the south approx 30 miles away! The problem would be to block >the public's view of the airspace above, since the terrain to the north and >east is very flat. A good, high power scope would give away their secrets. >Night could help some, but as far as I knew then, Northrup Strip was not >lighted. Makes for a tough landing in the dark. Based on what I know at present, I don't think secret missions are flown out of Northrup Strip aka "White Sands Space Harbor". The locations for secret testing seem to be in the north, such as RAMS in the northwest, where classified low radar cross section designs are tested on the pole. There have been some rumors of other activities in the northern part of WSMR also, such as operations at Stallion (AAF) field and a reputed new facility on the Jornada de Muerta. Clearly, WSMR needs more investigation. I think the current expert on WSMR activities is Pat Cullumber who has experienced problems getting on this mailing list. Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com / PaulMcG@aol.com http://www.portal.com/~trader/secrecy.html ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 00:15:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Boscombe Down UK The usual formation for refuelling is either line-abreast or trail-on-wingtip, based on my experience and what the attack bubbas and fighter pukes tell me. We did trail on wingtip in the F-4 (representing USAF procedure for a two-ship) and the F-18s do either, based on accounts from the RAG. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Fri, 17 Nov 1995, David Windle wrote: > On the North Sea sighting...could someone tell me if it's normal for a/c to > fly in line abreast whilst waiting to re-fuel ? The 2 F-111s were on the > port side of the KC135 as the mystery a/c appeared to take on fuel. Is that > how it happens or does it appear more like the action of chase planes ? ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 00:25:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: SR71 flyover What was inflicted on Washingthon was the northern loop for USAF training flights. We go a bit further east for NASA flights. This probably won't be the last, but they should subside fairly soon. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Sat, 18 Nov 1995, Dave Garbrick wrote: > > Hello Skunkers, > > Thursday Nov 17 my wife and I heard and felt a sonic boom > from an SR-71 on a training flight from Edwards AFB in the Tri- > Cities (Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland) Washington. It was > confirmed today in the local paper, the Tri-City Herald that > Lt. Wilson Camelo, Spokesman for Beale said Edwards flew an > SR-71 on a training flight at 6 pm on a route north. > > The Tri-Cities is near the nuclear waste storage site Hanford > in southeast Washington. The newspaper reported that there were > many calls from the public wondering if anything had blown up at > Hanford! The BOOM lives on! > > Anybody know about the operations going on with the SR-71 now? > Will these training flights continue and lead into periodic missions? > > Dave Garbrick > Richland, WA > dg846755@lance.colostate.edu or garbrick@cbvcp.com > > ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #514 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).