From:      skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu
To:        skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu
Subject:   Skunk Works Digest V5 #558
Reply-To:  skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu
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Precedence: bulk

Skunk Works Digest       Thursday, 7 December 1995     Volume 05 : Number 558

In this issue:

	Pre-Flight Briefings Set for Space Shuttle Mission STS-72 
	Re: Pre-Flight Briefings Set for Space Shuttle Mission STS-72
	Bear Engines
	Advanced propulsion concepts-Info needed.
	Site announcement
	Titanium rework
	Re:  looping digest message
	Beryllium and RAND
	Re: Beryllium and RAND
	Aurora sightings?
	Re: NORAD and Christmas

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works
or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 5:32:58 EST
Subject: Pre-Flight Briefings Set for Space Shuttle Mission STS-72 

I got this from the NASA Public Affairs Office this morning:

<snip>

> 
>      NASA's first Space Shuttle mission of 1996 will be the 
> focus of briefings on Dec. 14 and 15 at the Johnson Space Center,
> Houston, TX, the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD, and
> the Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, AL.
>  
>      Space Shuttle Endeavour is scheduled for launch on 
> January 11 on a nine-day flight to retrieve the Japanese 
> Space Flyer Unit, which was launched March 18th aboard a 
> Japanese H-2 rocket to conduct a variety of microgravity 
> experiments.

<whack>

This isn't the same satellite that is supposed to come crashing to
earth, is it?




- -- 



A hundred years from now, it will not matter  
what kind of house I live in, how much is in
my bank account, or what kind of car I drive,
but the world may be a different place because
I was important in the life of a child.

Douglas J. Tiffany   dougt@u011.oh.vp.com
Varco-Pruden Buildings  Van Wert, Ohio


------------------------------

From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 02:44:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pre-Flight Briefings Set for Space Shuttle Mission STS-72

> >      Space Shuttle Endeavour is scheduled for launch on 
> > January 11 on a nine-day flight to retrieve the Japanese 
> > Space Flyer Unit, which was launched March 18th aboard a 
> > Japanese H-2 rocket to conduct a variety of microgravity 
> > experiments.
> 
> This isn't the same satellite that is supposed to come crashing to
> earth, is it?
> 

Well, it will if the Shuttle doesn't pick it up... :>

But no, the one doing the "crashing" is a Chinese spy
satellite, not a Japanese microgravity research platform.


------------------------------

From: Andrew See <asee@magna.com.au>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:30:14 +1100
Subject: Bear Engines

>Those big turboprops would not be much good for a new Stealth aircraft 
>I'm afraid ;-)

Apparently so loud and violent that submerged submarines have no problem
hearing a bear, even at altitude.



------------------------------

From: BROWN A <92913938@mmu.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 13:10:51 GMT
Subject: Advanced propulsion concepts-Info needed.

Hi skunkers,
    I'm back on the list after quite a while away, and I'm on the 
hunt for information (again). I'm a final year degree student at 
Manchester Metropolitan University, and I'm currently researching a 
project on advanced aerospace propulsion concepts. What I'm looking 
for is information on the following areas;

Any information on the Myrabo "Air spike/MHD fan" work to have 
emerged since the end of June.

An explaination of the laser-energised PDW engine concept (and the 
PDW in the Myrabo concept - in fact anything on PDWs!).

Good quality information on the design of the "Linear Aerospike" 
engine (What I need to know is if the engine has lots of small 
chambers and a single large ramp, or a large, non-circular, chamber 
with an internal ramp) plus technical specs and a brief history of 
the concept (Who thought it up etc).

Any other interesting concepts to have emerged since the end of June 
(the more exotic, the better.)

The kind of help I'm looking for is either direct answers to the 
above, or pointers to where I can find the info (i.e. back issues of 
SWD between the end of June and now. I can't scan them myself as I'm 
just TOO busy at the moment). Any help would be most appreciated, and 
would be fully credited in my report. By the way, thanks to everyone 
who sent me info for my last project on the "A" word, it got me over 
90%, so cheers everyone.

OK, now for something which I know is off-charter, but given the 
varied interests of those on the list, I hope not too many of you 
mind. Is there anyone out there interested in the technical history 
of both nuclear weapons and the instrumentation used in their 
testing? Its long been an interest of mine, and I've got the possible 
chance of doing a history of physics PhD, so I'd like to do it on 
the above if I can. If anyone is interested, or knows someone who 
is, please let me know (post direct to me if you don't want to clog 
up the list, I remember all the fuss over THOSE three letters before 
the summer). Also if you know of any lists which cover the subject, 
or related areas, which you think could be useful, I'd like to hear 
about them too.

BTW, whatever came of the "Mach 10 Blackbird" story? Was there a long 
debate, or did it auger in pretty quickly. That really was a good one, 
and it certainly brought a smile to my face.

Adrian Brown (92913938@mmu.ac.uk)















------------------------------

From: JOHN SZALAY <jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 08:34:16 EST
Subject: Site announcement

This announcement arrived in this mornings mail. I believe that it is
very much on topic here, since the site listed is the new home of the
history files that used to reside at the    vestnett.no   site
All of Gustin's work and the Joe Baugher series of aircraft profiles
 
Included are several images and write-ups on Skunk-works products..
 
*********************************************************************
 
From:AEROSP-L@SIVM.BITNET" "Aeronautics & Aerospace History"
To:	Multiple recipients of list AEROSP-L <AEROSP-L@SIVM.BITNET
CC:	
Subj:	Web Site Announcement
 
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/
 
Emmanuel Gustin
 
*********************************************************************
 
 
 
                                John Szalay
                                jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com
 
 

------------------------------

From: ahanley@usace.mil
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 9:49:22 ÿÿÿ
Subject: Titanium rework

Just a question from someone who is really unfamiliar with this stuff.  I 
remember hearing years ago something to the effect that we did not know how to 
rework titanium, once formed, so if a titanium part got bent or crakced we had 
to throw the whole part away.  The Soviets, on the other hand, did know how to 
reform titanium, which is one of the reasons they built submarines out of it.

Does anyone know if this is true?  Did we ever learn how?  If not, have we 
tried to buy the technology from them (2000 pairs of Levis, maybe?)?


        
        
        
                                                 Art Hanley
        
                                    Not only do my employers not endorse
                                    the views above, they aren't even 
                                    aware of them.

------------------------------

From: marin@ccr.jussieu.fr (Emmanuel MARIN)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 01:51:15 +0100
Subject: Re:  looping digest message

Hello,

Could you please remove me from this listserv mailing list ? 
The automatic signoff system does not seem to work.

Thank you,

Emmanuel Marin

------------------------------

From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl <schnars@ais.org>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:22:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Beryllium and RAND

Byron Weber <chosa@chosa.win.net> asked about the use of beryllium in 
aerospace structures and why the RAND Corporation would do research 
regarding the use of titanium as a structural element in aircraft as 
early as in the late 1940s.

I have here a photo of the aerodynamic testbed of the F-4E, the first YRF-4C 
USAF serial '62-12200', which was then used for the 'Project Agile Eagle' 
program (testing new leading edge maneuvering slats), and which was also 
equipped with an experimental beryllium rudder, besides other modifications. 
I don't believe that this (beryllium) modification ever went into series 
production, though.

The aircraft was built as an USN F-4B and was later transferred to the USAF 
and modified as the first YRF-110A, later redesignated YRF-4C-14-MC. She was 
later used as an aerodynamic prototype for the E model, and ended her career 
as NF-4E (or F-4CCV), being used as test aircraft for FBW (Fly By Wire) and 
CCV (Control Configured Vehicle) tests (with canards) as part of the PACT 
(Precision Aircraft Control Technology) program. She is now displayed at the 
USAF Museum in Dayton, OH.

The RAND Corp. was conceived as a think-tank, and I am not a bit surprised, 
that they thought about the use of new materials and new concepts in general. 
I don't know, why they would need some 'secret' reason to do so. Apparently, 
the technology to use beryllium and titanium was not there at the time, but 
the material was investigated.

And the same is true for those 'anti-gravitation' research and other things,
like nuclear research. Only because someone is doing research in a field
doesn't mean that there is any useful application available or that there
ever will be one.

But without the research, nobody would know.

- -- Andreas

- ---                                                                       ---
  Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl   E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
  313 West Court St. #305            or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
  Flint, MI 48502-1239               
  Tel: (810) 238-8469           WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- ---                                                                       ---

------------------------------

From: Mary Shafer <shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:01:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Beryllium and RAND

I worked on that F-4 when it was the F-4 SFCS (Survivable Flight
Conditions Systems) fly-by-wire airplane.  That was the beginning of my
love for F-4s--it was the first airplane that I really "owned".  I could
walk down to the hangar and kick the tires (metaphorically) any time I
wanted.  It was mine.  Somewhere I have a picture of me sitting in the
forward cockpit grinning.  

About the time they pulled me off the plane to work on the first F-15
pre-production aircraft, starting the acceptance testing, the F-4 SFCS
went back to St. Louis and they finished the program.  It was some time
after that that the canards were installed--at least several years.

The SFCS program was contemporaneous with Phase I of the Dryden F-8
Digital Fly-By-Wire (DFBW) program.  In an interesting coincidence, both
aircraft were painted gloss white, with a royal blue lightning bolt, edged
in gold, along the cheatline.  There had been absolutely no communication
between the two projects on this and both teams didn't know at first
whether to be amused or annoyed.  Amusement eventually won.

Regards,
Mary


Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR  shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end....


On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote:

> Byron Weber <chosa@chosa.win.net> asked about the use of beryllium in 
> aerospace structures and why the RAND Corporation would do research 
> regarding the use of titanium as a structural element in aircraft as 
> early as in the late 1940s.
> 
> I have here a photo of the aerodynamic testbed of the F-4E, the first YRF-4C 
> USAF serial '62-12200', which was then used for the 'Project Agile Eagle' 
> program (testing new leading edge maneuvering slats), and which was also 
> equipped with an experimental beryllium rudder, besides other modifications. 
> I don't believe that this (beryllium) modification ever went into series 
> production, though.
> 
> The aircraft was built as an USN F-4B and was later transferred to the USAF 
> and modified as the first YRF-110A, later redesignated YRF-4C-14-MC. She was 
> later used as an aerodynamic prototype for the E model, and ended her career 
> as NF-4E (or F-4CCV), being used as test aircraft for FBW (Fly By Wire) and 
> CCV (Control Configured Vehicle) tests (with canards) as part of the PACT 
> (Precision Aircraft Control Technology) program. She is now displayed at the 
> USAF Museum in Dayton, OH.
> 
> The RAND Corp. was conceived as a think-tank, and I am not a bit surprised, 
> that they thought about the use of new materials and new concepts in general. 
> I don't know, why they would need some 'secret' reason to do so. Apparently, 
> the technology to use beryllium and titanium was not there at the time, but 
> the material was investigated.
> 
> And the same is true for those 'anti-gravitation' research and other things,
> like nuclear research. Only because someone is doing research in a field
> doesn't mean that there is any useful application available or that there
> ever will be one.
> 
> But without the research, nobody would know.
> 
> -- Andreas
> 
> ---                                                                       ---
>   Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl   E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
>   313 West Court St. #305            or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
>   Flint, MI 48502-1239               
>   Tel: (810) 238-8469           WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
> ---                                                                       ---




------------------------------

From: Robert Christiansen <christr@pr.erau.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:13:52 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Aurora sightings?

Just a little note asking if anyone has been in the Tonapah NV area 
lately.  The F-117 was tested and sighted in that area, why not the 
Aurora there too?

I would say check out Area 51, but that's harder than hitting an SR-71 
with a blowgun.


				Robert Christiansen


- ---------------------------------
tip for the day: never look a gift lion in the mouth.

R.C.


------------------------------

From: dick@smith.chi.il.us (Dick Smith)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 0:38:15 CST
Subject: Re: NORAD and Christmas

JOHN F. REGUS wrote:
> Maybe 20 years ago, NORAD used to post "SANTA ALERTS" on TV
> from Colorado...all very official looking and serious, on Christmas Eve.
> The kids loved it.  They haven't done it in a long time and I wish they would 
> start over.

I believe that I heard one of these a year or two ago on WBBM 780 AM
"NewsRadio 78" out of Chicago.  I suppose it could be that someone had
one on tape, and played it back, but it could also be that such things
are still available.  Unfortunately, I don't remember if they used the
(old) terms NORAD and SAC, or whether it was a more modern ACC or
SPACECOM.

Do you really think that NORAD (under whatever modern name) made these
things?

Best,
- -- 
Dick Smith                                              dick@smith.chi.il.us
  Web page at: "http://www.rice.iit.edu/~rgrhs393/"
  DUFF:  Yes, Danny Heap for DUFF!

------------------------------

End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #558
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