From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #560 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Friday, 8 December 1995 Volume 05 : Number 560 In this issue: "Interceptor" film Re: Weightless flight Re: Weightless flight SR71 'Strong Back' modifications Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works Re: "Interceptor" film Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works LMSW Star Magazine Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works Re: "Interceptor" film Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works AW&ST November 20, 1995 Navy doesn't like Hunter UAVs Re: "Interceptor" film Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works Re: Weightless flight Re: Weightless flight Re: Weightless flight See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrimtabNYC@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 03:42:28 -0500 Subject: "Interceptor" film I am mostly a fascinated reader of what you all know, skunky-wise; but I stumbled on a movie tonight that I'd like to know if any of you are familiar with. It's called "Interceptor". Was made in 1992, "staring" Andrew Divoff. The beginning (all I've seen, I'm taping the rest) shows a pilot testing a VR-based visual system for flying the stealth fighter. He takes off in one (supposedly from an air base in "Northern Turkey") flies for a while (including a great visual of a terrain-following flight path) until the VR system conks out. Then he ejects from the fighter. From the beautiful film of the stealth fighter in flight, I assume the film makers had support from the government in the making of the film, the plot line (according to TV guide) of which involves hijackers aboard a US military transport flight. Just thought I'd pass on this info. Don't know if any of you are familiar with the film. ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 03:04:48 PST Subject: Re: Weightless flight Padded walls and good seat belts. Zero G is no biggy. The only problem I`ve ever encountered in zero G is an engine burble do to fuel pickup problems. If you use a standpipe header this will usually go away. One of the most fun things to do is do a smooth pullup and make a zero- G super slow barrel-roll. One of the most fun things we did in my misguided youth was zero-G skydiver drops from an 18. Chuck ------------------------------ From: Davidw.Thompson@Corp.Sun.COM (David W. Thompson - Employee Communications) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 03:36:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Weightless flight Jamie: Sorry - I can't answer your questions. But, I'd *love* to know the name of and contact info for the Wyoming company that does the weightless parabola flights! (And my son would probably be grateful forever, as well) Now, if only we could get Mary to set up something similar with the SR... Hmmmmm... Hey Mary - about those NASA budget cuts... Dave > Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 21:00:27 -0500 > To: skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu > From: jally@interlog.com (J. Ally) > Subject: Weightless flight > > I'm doing a project on human adaptations to flight and space. In the last > Air and Space magazine I read about a company in Wyoming that gives > weightless parabola flights for $1000. I'm wondering if anyone knows what > type of equipment the plane must have to safely take humans through zero > gravity, and what type apparel must be worn by the pilots and passengers. > Any information about this or any other human adaptations to flight and > space would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Jamie > jally@interlog.com > ------------------------------ From: Adrian Thurlow Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 12:33:51 +0000 Subject: SR71 'Strong Back' modifications Hi Skunkers, Mary, You wrote the following in a rec.aviation.military posting: >However, we also got the strongback modification out of the SR-71 that set the speed record on its way to retirement at the Smithsonian. We're just finishing installing this in our SR-71A 844.< I have never read anything about this modification so I believe that Crickmore et al have not covered it. Is there anything in print about it? Can you tell us more? Regards Adrian Thurlow ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:21:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works > > Do someone know if the team that was sent to analyse the Mig 25 > in Japan in 1973 (?) after the desertion of the Soviet pilot was the > Skunk Works team???? > In a previous life, I used to work for a guy who, in a previous life, used to work for Hughes on the AWG-9 system (F-14). One night he gets a phone call, reports as told and, next thing he knows, he's in Japan analyzing the MiG-25's radar. Lots and lots of interesting stories followed, but the point is that the team was probably a conglomeration of experts in their respective fields, regardless of who they worked for at the time... Greg Fieser (since I'm self-employed, the above views DO reflect those of my employer) ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:48:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "Interceptor" film Yeap. The movie was OK. The stealth fighter that showed was the Lockhead Skunk Works (now Lockhead Martin Skunk Works, but I don't really like it) F-117. One of then has a nice camuflage. Peharps, a lot of the things (in the technical way) that they showed in the movie is pure fiction. One of the example is that I don't thinks that the diameter of the air refueling pipe is not big enough to slice a human body through it (it was the way that in the movie they steal the F-117 from a cargo airplane). May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mail: wsu02@barney.poly.edu On Fri, 8 Dec 1995 TrimtabNYC@aol.com wrote: > I am mostly a fascinated reader of what you all know, skunky-wise; but I > stumbled on a movie tonight that I'd like to know if any of you are familiar > with. > > It's called "Interceptor". Was made in 1992, "staring" Andrew Divoff. The > beginning (all I've seen, I'm taping the rest) shows a pilot testing a > VR-based visual system for flying the stealth fighter. He takes off in one > (supposedly from an air base in "Northern Turkey") flies for a while > (including a great visual of a terrain-following flight path) until the VR > system conks out. > Then he ejects from the fighter. > > From the beautiful film of the stealth fighter in flight, I assume the film > makers had support from the government in the making of the film, the plot > line (according to TV guide) of which involves hijackers aboard a US military > transport flight. > > Just thought I'd pass on this info. Don't know if any of you are familiar > with the film. > ------------------------------ From: Micarter@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:03:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works In a message dated 95-12-08 02:23:13 EST, wsu02@barney.poly.edu (Wei-Jen Su) writes: > Do someone know if the team that was sent to analyse the Mig 25 >in Japan in 1973 (?) after the desertion of the Soviet pilot was the >Skunk Works team???? 1) I don't know, but Skunk Works refers to a civilian contractor. If they they had people who were put on the job it would have been for pay. The evaluation was probably under the direction of Wright Patterson AFB and (I believe) their Office of Foreign Technology Assesment. CIA was unboubtedly involved but probably not have the exact type of technical people in-house that the job called for. 2) You at Cal Poly SLO? I'm an ME class of 1960. Mike Carter Lancaster, PA ------------------------------ From: Robin Bjorklund Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:42:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: LMSW Star Magazine Did anyone see the front page of this months Lockheed Martin Skunk Works Star Magazine?! It has a picture of a modified F-117 static fatigue article, serial #777, mounted on a RCS pylon. Well, I doubt that it was meant for display purposes, since the aircraft is located 95 feet off the ground! Its kind of funny - you can see two tiny people standing beneath it! I knew that RCS poles had to be tall, but not that tall.... :) robin :p +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Robin L. Bjorklund Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University | | E-mail: bjorklur@db.erau.edu Humor me, and smile! | | Home Page: http://Bibb.ent.db.erau.edu/~bjorklur | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | There is no knowledge that is not power. | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:29:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works There may have been SW advisors, but the team was entirely government employees, or so said the guy who came around and gave us the classified briefing about what they found. USAF and CIA as I recall. However, it would have been more likely to have advisors from McAir; the MiG 25 is a fighter much like the F-15, so F-15 builders would be a better choice. You may be laboring under a misapprehension here--the folks who work for the Skunk Works are not omniscient gods and they're not automatically consulted on every aviation question that comes around. I'd never go to them, for example, to talk about fighters; to the best of my knowledge the last one they built was the F-104 and that was really an interceptor. Nor would I discuss transports with them. They're good, but so are a lot of others. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Wei-Jen Su wrote: > > Do someone know if the team that was sent to analyse the Mig 25 > in Japan in 1973 (?) after the desertion of the Soviet pilot was the > Skunk Works team???? > Thanks in advance. > > May the Force be with you > > Su Wei-Jen > E-mail: wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:00:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "Interceptor" film The Movie "Interceptor" is not a very well written or realistic movie, and definitely did not get any support from Lockheed or the USAF. The F-117s are models and some stock footage from Lockheed PR films -- even the tanker and the C-5 are fake. Not only are dog-fighting F-117s unrealistic, but F-117s free-falling out of the back of a C-5, un-folding their wings and using mind-control and radar to fight each other with AGM-65 Mavericks. But the worst part is the way the terrorists come on board the Galaxy! They crawl through the aerial refueling boom of their fake tanker, cutting a hole through the top of the C-5. The only thing missing were some Israeli F-16s or Kfirs flying around, to make it a typical "Golan Globus Production". :) - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:13:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works Mary Shafer wrote: >There may have been SW advisors, but the team was entirely government >employees, or so said the guy who came around and gave us the classified >briefing about what they found. USAF and CIA as I recall. >However, it would have been more likely to have advisors from McAir; the >MiG 25 is a fighter much like the F-15, so F-15 builders would be a better >choice. >You may be laboring under a misapprehension here -- the folks who work for >the Skunk Works are not omniscient gods and they're not automatically >consulted on every aviation question that comes around. I'd never go to >them, for example, to talk about fighters; to the best of my knowledge the >last one they built was the F-104 and that was really an interceptor. Nor >would I discuss transports with them. They're good, but so are a lot of >others. I don't know if the Skunk Works should be considered as the Olympus or Walhalla of the aerospace industry, but Ben Rich wrote in his book, that Skunk Works personnel was (and probably still is) maintaining USAF/CIA's MiG and Suchoi fighters out at Groom Lake. They might have been the people to consult about the MiG-25. And didn't they design the F-22 fighter only just recently? ;) - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:15:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: AW&ST November 20, 1995 INDUSTRY OUTLOOK, page 21: ========================== "STICKY CHAFF: An unnamed contractor team is exploring a nonlethal technique for "blinding" radar- and infrared-guided missiles in response to a U.S. Army solicitation. The concept calls for dispensing a cloud of "metallic coating materials" into the flight path of an inbound missile. As the missile penetrates the cloud, particles would adhere to the seeker dome or radome, interfering with homing and effectively turning it into a ballistic round. Considerable development and testing will be required to validate the concept." NEWS BREAKS, page 25: ===================== "Lockheed Martin's stealthy DarkStar Tier 3- unmanned aerial vehicle program took about a 60-day slip when a plan to reuse software from another classified UAV program proved too difficult. Taxi tests are now scheduled for to begin Dec. 2 with first flight expected before the end of the month. The software involved was intended to manage the flight controls, a key factor for the uniquely shaped flying wing. As Lockheed Skunk Works officials got into the project, they discovered it would cost more time and money to adapt the old software than to build a new package from scratch, according to Garfield Thomas, the company's new vice president for reconnaissance programs." "An Aerojet-led team will support enhancements to the U.S. Air Force's Attack and Launch Early Reporting to Theater (ALERT) system and Talon Shield program under a new five-year contract. Awarded by the service's Space and Missile System Center, the potential value is $80 million. ALERT processes Defense Support Program satellite data for improved theater missile defense, and Talon Shield is an associated R&D program aimed at further improvements of ALERT. Aerojet and subcontractors Hughes and TRW will support and develop enhancements to the Central Theater Processing Program, which is considered the "heart" of ALERT." WASHINGTON OUTLOOK, page 27: ============================ "AN IMAGE PROBLEM: Plans to consolidate all imagery activities under a three- star general is just one example of the Defense Dept.'s growing dominance in areas where the CIA "played an important if not dominant role," former deputy DCI Richard Kerr said. He urged the House Intelligence Committee, which is conducting a review of U.S. intelligence, to maintain a strong "civilian organization" to advocate intelligence priorities not central to the Pentagon's missions. The new imagery office announcement for last week is now expected in December." USAF COVETS SPACE LASER, pages 34-35: ===================================== The USAF would like to take responsibility for the SBL (Space Based Laser) from BMDO (Ballistic Missile Defense Organization) in addition to its ABL (AirBorne Laser) project. The SBL project is currently not funded beyond 1997, and there seems to be no money anyway. The BMDO has suspended testing their prototype, the alpha laser, until a 4-meter mirror is integrated with a high-power beam director in early Fiscal Year 1997. The USAF may want to have responsibility for the complete BPI (Boost Phase Intercept) triade: SBL, and ABL and UAV/fighter-mounted high-speed interceptor missiles. The best way for the US military to counter ballistic missiles, stealthy aircraft and cruise missiles, seems to be using existing assets like E-3 AWACS, E-8 J-STARSs, U-2s and Tier drones, and combining the gathered information as fast and efficiently as possible utilizing new BMTs (Battle Management Technologies). A classified new airborne radar, sponsored by the ARPA (Advanced Research Projects Agency), is designed to find stealthy, low-flying targets, and designate them for the Boeing 747-400-based ABL. The radar could be deployed on dedicated Boeing 747-400 or aerostats, but the modification of E-3A AWACS or the use of space-based sensors may be the only affordable solution. To increase the useful range of Patriot, THAAD (Theater High-Altitude Air Defense) and MEADS (Medium Extended Air Defense System) -- which are currently limited by their radar-horizon -- the deployment of sensors on aerostats, unmanned helicopters, satellites and aircraft is envisioned. F/A-18 HARV EXPLOITS FOREBODY CONTROLS, page 84: ================================================ Describing the ANSER (Actuated Nose Strakes for Enhanced Rolling) program of NASA, which utilizes the F/A-18 HARV (High Alpha Research Vehicle). SANDERS, ITT TO BUILD IDECM DECOY SYSTEM, pages 87-88: ====================================================== The IDECM (Integrated Defensive Electronic CounterMeasures) towed decoy RF system, developed for the F/A-18E/F, B-1B and F-15C/D/E, may also be adapted for the F-16, AC-130, MC-130, E-3, E-8 and U-2. It is compatible with the ALE-50 dispenser and the ALQ-165 ASPJ, and will either include Litton AN/ALR-67(V)1 or Hughes ALR-67(V)3 RWR (Radar Warning Receiver) and ASTE (Advanced Strategic/Tactical Expendable) flares and an AN/ALE-47 dispenser. Sanders also won the contract for the ATIRCM (Advanced Threat InfraRed CounterMeasures) system for 25 types of US military aircraft, and will supply the EW-suit for the F-22. FILTER CENTER, page 88: ======================= "The Finnish Air Force is scheduled to receive the first ALQ-165 Airborne Self-Protection Jammer (ASPJ) sold for export this week from the ITT/ Westinghouse team that produces the system. The Finns are contracting for the internally installed system to protect their fleet. Finland has received four of its seven two-seat F-18Ds and is buying 57 F-18Cs. The Swiss are to receive the first ASPJ for their F-18 fleet in late 1996. The combined order is valued at over $100 million. The software for ASPJ goes through the Pentagon's foreign military sales, but the hardware is a direct, commercial sale because the U.S. Defense Dept. did not procure the system. Nonetheless, 24 preproduction system are in use protecting U.S. Marine Corps F/A-18s, and the U.S. Navy intends to use the remaining 95 to upgrade F-14s." - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:21:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Navy doesn't like Hunter UAVs The GAO (General Accounting Office) said that USN fleet commanders opposed putting the little remote-controlled intelligence planes on 12 helicopter landing ships in the future for several reasons, including limited capability and space. The Hunter, being developed by Israel Aircraft Industries Ltd., is part of a broad $4.2 billion U.S. defense program to build a whole family of new intelligence spy drones for joint use by the U.S. military services. The Pentagon agreed last month in preliminary response to a draft of the GAO report that consideration of future Hunter acquisiton should be deferred pending a final decision on the Hunter program expected later this year. The Pentagon this year used "Predator" spy drones based in Albania to fly over Bosnia, gathering infra-red and other intelligence on military activity there for U.N. peacekeepers. The Pentagon is looking into Navy variants of drones for use from ships. But the GAO, the investigating arm of Congress, said fleet commanders complained of a limited range of about 100 miles for use in the vast Pacific Ocean and were worried about the problem of space on ships. "When Hunter is viewing land targets, its limited range means that the ship must move close to shore, increasing the risk from shore patrol attacks, mines and other threats," the report added. It also said that because of weight limitations, Hunter could not carry payloads capable of seeing the ground in poor weather conditions. "We recommend that the secretary of defense stop all acquisitions of shipboard variants of the Hunter UAV System" until the Navy completes its assessment of the program and determines whether fleet commanders will even use it once it has been procured for that service, the GAO said. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Joe.Lurker@Corp.Sun.COM (Joe Lurker - Sun/PeopleSoft Technology Center) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:00:34 -0800 Subject: Re: "Interceptor" film This flick was abominably laughable! The ownly excuse I can offer, in defense of having watched it in its entirety, is that I thought it just had to get better at some point. I was quite wrong! joe =8^) ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:28:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Mig 25 and Skunk Works On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote: > > And didn't they design the F-22 fighter only just recently? ;) > Plus they are doing design for the Join Advance Tactical Fighter (JATF) ??? The one that is going to substitute the F-16, F-18, AV-8, etc. May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mail: wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:47:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Weightless flight Jamie Ally asked about Zero-G flights: >I'm doing a project on human adaptations to flight and space. In the last >Air and Space magazine I read about a company in Wyoming that gives >weightless parabola flights for $1000. I'm wondering if anyone knows what >type of equipment the plane must have to safely take humans through zero >gravity, and what type apparel must be worn by the pilots and passengers. >Any information about this or any other human adaptations to flight and >space would be greatly appreciated. The company who offers these flights is: Interglobal Space Lines Inc. (Zero-G Experiences in the U.S.). The actual aircraft provider is Weaver Aerospace though. They also work together with MiGs Etc. (Supersonic Fighter and Zero-G Experiences in Russia). They have a Web site, the 'Interglobal 21st-Century Mall' at: http://www.interglobal.org which you can also reach through my home page. Of course, NASA also offers Zero-G flight in their 'Vomit Comet'. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 20:42:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Weightless flight > Jamie Ally asked about Zero-G flights: > >Air and Space magazine I read about a company in Wyoming that gives > >weightless parabola flights for $1000. I'm wondering if anyone knows what And Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl replied: > Interglobal Space Lines Inc. (Zero-G Experiences in the U.S.). The actual > aircraft provider is Weaver Aerospace though. They also work together with > MiGs Etc. (Supersonic Fighter and Zero-G Experiences in Russia). ... > http://www.interglobal.org Cool! See! I TOLD you Andreas knows everything. :-D (g, d, & r) - -------brief Mil. vignette------ Did you all see the report about that insomniac sailor who stepped out for a midnite stroll on the carrier deck and got knocked into the briney for 36 hours, losing his clothes to boot, and being picked up by some fishermen. (Wash Post yesterday). He got nibbled on by some fish, and sunburned, but was generally OK, if scared sh*itless. Bet he was sorry he couldn't sleep! - -------------------------------- regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: jally@interlog.com (J. Ally) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 23:49:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Weightless flight > >Jamie: > >Sorry - I can't answer your questions. But, I'd *love* to know the name of >and contact info for the Wyoming company that does the weightless parabola >flights! (And my son would probably be grateful forever, as well) > >Now, if only we could get Mary to set up something similar with the SR... >Hmmmmm... Hey Mary - about those NASA budget cuts... The name of the company is Weaver Aerospace, in Jackson, Wyoming. I read about them in the November issue of Air and Space (pg.11). No address or phone number is listed though. If you manage to get a hold of an address or phone number for them, I'd really appreciate you telling me. Oh yeah...prices start at $1950 for a one day introductory course, in case your interested. Hope this helps, Jamie jally@interlog.com ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #560 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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