From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #567 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 13 December 1995 Volume 05 : Number 567 In this issue: Re: SENIOR CITIZEN unmasked ? Rumour: SR-71s grounded Re SR-71 grounding. Re: Air Speed Re: H.A.L.E. aircraft Re: H.A.L.E. aircraft Waverider [NASP] Re: Waverider [NASP] Re: Waverider [NASP] Re: Waverider [NASP] Re[2]: H.A.L.E. aircraft. Re: Beryllium and RAND Re: Waverider [NASP] anomalies detected 2-3Dec95 HALE UAVs Re: Mig-25 and Skunk Works See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 10:13:09 MET Subject: Re: SENIOR CITIZEN unmasked ? >The Senior Citizen call sign was associated with a craft flying a fairly >typical space shuttle re-entry profile. That doesn't square with a >dirigible. >Steve Schaper (Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:07:08 -0600) That's not what says Paul McGinnis in his http://www.portal.com/~trader/sc.html He says that the Senior Citizen was previously thought to be the (mythical?) Aurora (Mach 5+), but that according to his more recent information, it is more probably a subsonic V/STOL advanced transport theater craft. See also Andreas Gehrs-Pahl's list of LTAVs: >>Several sightings of big, black colored, triangular 'UFOs' have been reported >>throughout the 1980s and 1990s, in Belgium, in the Gulf region during Desert >>Storm, near Edwards AFB, and several other places. One of the many 'black' >>aerospace programs of the USAF, the 'Senior Citizen' (originally believed to >>be a code name for the alleged 'Aurora' hypersonic spyplane), was recently >>revealed to be a STOVL transport aircraft. >> >>Based on this and other clues, I came to the conclusion, that 'Senior Citizen' >>could well be: >> - a 'manta-ray'/'triangular'-shaped, >> - sometimes silent flying or hovering, >> - sometimes relatively fast flying, >> - relatively big, >> - probably stealthy LTAV, >> - used as a SOF (Special Operation Forces) VSTOL (Vertical/Short Take-Off and >> Landing) transporter. Paul McGinnis and Andreas Gehrs-Pahl are serious members of the skunk-works discussion group, and know a lot of things. I am also pretty sure that a couple of members of this group know very well this craft, but don't say anything because it's still secret. J. Pharabod ------------------------------ From: John Burtenshaw Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:33:08 -0100 Subject: Rumour: SR-71s grounded Hi I've just seen on another mailing list that the re-activated SR-71s have been grounded due to political pressure. It looks like a few politicians do not think the SR-71s are worth spending money on - any truth in this. Also in the same posting a USAF spokesperson confirmed that there is an emergency diversion airbase ready in Britain for when the SR-71 gets into service. This must be Mildenhall. Also they stated that there is no liklihood of any being based in the UK for at least 18 months. Regards John =========================================================================== John Burtenshaw Systems Administrator, The Computer Centre, Bournemouth University - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Postal Address: Talbot Campus, Fern Barrow, POOLE, Dorset, BH12 5BB U.K. Internet: jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk Phone: 01202 595089 Fax: 01202 513293 AX.25: g1hok@gb7bnm.#45.gbr.eu. AMPRnet: g1hok.ampr.org. (44.131.17.82) CompuServe: 100336.3113@compuserve.com =========================================================================== ------------------------------ From: John Burtenshaw Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:05:45 -0100 Subject: Re SR-71 grounding. OK Folks Many people have asked for the original posting about the SR-71 and here it is. I've deleted the original senders address as he may not want it known. Regards John Original post begins: Hi all, Neil said: >Seems quite likely that the U-2s will have cleared off to Istres by close of >play on Monday 18th. Fairford will retain servicing capability. We locals >are hoping that the space is filled by another black jet during January. >Watch this space!! We at London Mil still have the U2's operating certainly into next year,probably until the troubles in Bosnia are over!!!(which could be anytime within the next 100 years!!) If they were thinking of moving out, i'd have thought they wouldn't have exchanged the two last month. As for the Blackbirds coming to the UK, I spoke to the US liason officer at Lon Mil about it and he said that one of the hangers was in a readiness state for emergencies only and that anyway there's no chance of one coming to the UK for atleast 18 months. I believe the US govt. have grounded the ones that have been brought back into service anyway, as arguments are still continuing whether they're worth bringing back. We know they are, but the yanks are unsure!!:) rgds Tony =========================================================================== John Burtenshaw Systems Administrator, The Computer Centre, Bournemouth University - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Postal Address: Talbot Campus, Fern Barrow, POOLE, Dorset, BH12 5BB U.K. Internet: jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk Phone: 01202 595089 Fax: 01202 513293 AX.25: g1hok@gb7bnm.#45.gbr.eu. AMPRnet: g1hok.ampr.org. (44.131.17.82) CompuServe: 100336.3113@compuserve.com =========================================================================== ------------------------------ From: kuechen@gelac.lasc.lockheed.com (David Kuechenmeister) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 07:09:29 EST Subject: Re: Air Speed Regarding the difference between true and indicated airspeed, I have found that approximations are good things. The best calculation for KIAS to KTAS, is just add 3-5 Kts/1000 ft of altitude to the Indicated airspeed. That is usually a pretty good approximation for the True airspeed. The Darkstar seems to be closer to 4 Kts/1000, given the data that Russell Kay has quoted. For Russell, the progession of the different airspeeds is such; True airspeed, TAS, is that speed, based on the actual density and dynamic pressure of the air mass in which the plane is flying. Practical airspeed indicators use sea-level density in the calibration, giving Equivalent airspeed. Another type of airspeed is Calibrated airspeed, which gives some compressibility effects. CAS uses sea-level values for the speed of sound and for static pressure in the computation. The last airspeed is Indicated airspeed. This is what the pilot reads at the indicator. If there are no installation errors, then IAS will be the same as CAS, or if the speed is low enough, the same as EAS. Regards, Dave Kuechenmeister - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David R. Kuechenmeister | Lockheed Martin Aeronautical Systems | Department 73-6P, Zone 0670 | PHONE : (770)494-9315 Marietta, Georgia 30063-0670 | FAX : (770)494-0447 "The scientist explores what is; the engineer creates what never has been." - -- Theodore Von Karman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:56:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: H.A.L.E. aircraft THEODORE CORMANEY wrote: >Chuck: There are three or four military HALE UAVs under development by >DARPA, CIA and DARO. Most advanced is Lockheed/Boeing's "DarkStar" >stealthy flying wing. Lockheed has another, faster, entry it is seeking >funding for. Teledyne Ryan is in design stage for Tier Two Plus HALE UAV. >There is an ACTD based on the old Amber design, called Tier Two Medium >Altitude Endurance UAV, marketed as Predator. Tier Two has to exit the >ACTD in June 96 and is seeking a leasing deal with OSD, since the >operations costs of the system are prohibitive and no customer has been >found in the Services. The CIA has earlier, very low capability Amber >derivative that it blows hot and cold on. Anything else I can tell you? As you wrote yourself, Tier I and Tier II are Medium Altitude and not High Altitude UAVs -- apart from the fact, that the USAF is fighting hard to get the relatively cheap Tier II! The 'original' HALE project, was the Boeing Electronics 'Experimental UMA' (UnManned Aircraft), later named 'Condor'. Two prototypes were built and some money might have come from NADC (Naval Air Development Center). The rollout date was March 1986, and in October 1986, one prototype reportedly had an accident. Technical Data: =============== Wing Span: 200 ft / 61 m Length: 60 ft / 18.3 m Height: 18 ft / 5.5 m Empty Weight: 7,500 lb / 3,400 kg Payload: 1,500 lb / 680 kg Endurance: 120 hours Cruising Speed: 116 to 161 kts / 133 to 185 mph / 215 to 298 km/h Ceiling: 70,000 ft. / 21,335 m Engines: 2 Teledyne Continental liquid-cooled piston engines with 3-blade puller propellers A competitor, which was not built, was the TRA (Teledyne Ryan Aeronautics) Model 329 HALE, called 'Spirit'. Technical Data: =============== Wing Span: 85 ft Length: 40 ft Height: 14 ft Empty Weight: 2,500 lb Gross Weight: 4,500 lb Payload: 300 lb Endurance: 80 hours Ceiling: 50,000 ft. Engines: 1 Teledyne Continental liquid-cooled, turbo-charged, 6 cylinder piston engines with a 4-blade 20 ft. diameter pusher propeller Power: 155 to 169 hp Of course, those projects were preceded by other High Altitude RPVs, like the USAF's 'Compass Cope' program, resulting in the Boeing YQM-94A 'B-Gull' or 'Compass Cope-B' (B = Boeing) and the TRA Model 235, designated YQM-98A 'R-Tern' or 'Compass Cope-R' (R = Ryan). Two prototypes were built of each design, and tested extensively at Edwards AFB in the mid/late 1970s. TRA based their model on the experience gained from the 'Compass Arrow' program of the late 1960s, which resulted in the Model 154, designated AQM-91A and named 'Firefly'. Another, even earlier program was the USAF's 'Compass Dwell' program, resulting in the E-Systems (Greenville Div.) Model L450F, designated XQM-93, and the Martin Marietta Model 845A, which apparently did not receive any official designation. Of these RPVs, also two prototypes of each design were built and test flights were conducted at Edwards AFB. The E-Systems RPVs were initially manned, and both designs were based on a Schweizer SGS 2-32 glider/sailplane. Of course, there were a lot of other projects, like the Lockheed Project 'Q', (but not much has surfaced about it yet), and the E-Systems 'EVER' (Endurance Vehicle for Extended Reconnaissance), based on the German Grob D 500 'Egrett' high altitude spy plane. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:26:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: H.A.L.E. aircraft Pop. Sci has in it's Oct 95 issue, a paragraph about "Q", an early UAV, which was determined not to be able to fulfill its design demands, and was thus split into the Tier programs. Don't know how accurate their info is, but I'll pull out the art. when I get home and see if there's more. regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 07:40:16 EST Subject: Waverider [NASP] Forwarded from the Space Tech list-TWC-: Date: 11 Dec 1995 14:44:47 GMT From: Rick Ballard Subject: Whatever happened to the Waverider? The waverider concept was one configuration investigated as part of the U.S. National AeroSpace Plane (NASP) program. It basically involved designing the vehicle so that it would be capable of "riding" its own shockwave. However, when the NASP program was cancelled, most (if not all) of waverider-related research went with it. A few technical papers still pop up from time to time, but for the most part, it is an "orphan" technology. If you are still interested, I know of a number of AIAA papers that were written on waverider technology. They are: 90-0538 Hypersonic Waveriders for Planetary Atmospheres 90-3065 Numerical Simulation of High-Speed Flows About Waveriders with Sharp Leading Edges 91-0053 Design of Hypersonic Waveriders for Aeroassisted Interplanetary Trajectories 93-0399 Hypersonic Waveriders -- Where do we Stand? 93-0400 Current Technologies for Waverider Aircraft 93-0401 Design of a Hypersonic Waverider-Derived Airplane 93-0402 A Hypersonic Waverider Research Vehicle Bon apetite' Rick. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: Any opinions expressed in the above text are my own, and are not supported by NASA or Sverdrup Technology. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:14:32 PST Subject: Re: Waverider [NASP] For more info see "compression lift" as used on the B-70. Chuck ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:40:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Waverider [NASP] > > The waverider concept was one configuration investigated as part of the U.S. > National AeroSpace Plane (NASP) program. It basically involved designing the > vehicle so that it would be capable of "riding" its own shockwave. > How did the NASP waverider concept differ from the compression lift concept that was used on the XB-70? Just curious... Greg Fieser ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:25:49 PST Subject: Re: Waverider [NASP] It don`t. The term `waverider" is on of those media names that catches on, but has no physical relevance. It gives the uneducated this picture of an aircraft surfing along on a shock wave. Supersonic and hypersonic aerodynamics are pretty much the same, except in hypersonics you no longer treat the shock wave as isentropic, zero width discontinuity. So, you design a vehicle that has an expansion wave at (or near) the LE of the body turning the flow along the upper surface, and a compression wave at (or near) the LE turning the flow along the bottom surface. There will now exist a deltaP over some area. If deltaP and area are enough, you fly. Since one doesn`t want the shock wave to detach and become oblique, the LE`s need to be pretty sharp. BUT....... Heat transfer is a inverse function of LE radius. (This is why the Rockwell Shuttles have blunt LE`s, even though a sharp LE works best on a delta.) So, its trade-off time, when the engineer earns his dough. The Space Plane aerodynamics aren`t a challenge. Its the propulsion that makes the project unfeasible right now. The lastest research I`ve seen involves variable area combustion chambers. Yeah, right! And that assumes the flame impingent issues are resolved. Chuck ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 12:36:27 EST Subject: Re[2]: H.A.L.E. aircraft. Forwarded off-line comments-TWC-: ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re[2]: H.A.L.E. aircraft. Author: Bill Riddle at FHU2 Date: 13/12/1995 8:30 AM MR THEODORE CORMANEY wrote: > There is an ACTD based on the old Amber design, called Tier Two Medium > Altitude Endurance UAV, marketed as Predator. Tier Two has to exit the > ACTD in June 96 and is seeking a leasing deal with OSD, since the > operations costs of the system are prohibitive and no customer has been > found in the Services. If he is saying that Predator does not have a customer, I don't think this is the latest situation. The following was published in the Fort Huachuca "Scout" of 30 November 1995. Headline: "Predator UAV performs for international audience" By Bill Lopez, US Army Intelligence Center & Ft Huachuca Public Affairs Office "The Predator unmanned aerial vehicle, which impressed U.S. allies with its intelligence gathering missions over Bosnia's hostile skies during the past several months, was demonstrated here Nov. 9 for representatives from 10 countries. "The $3 million Predator is the U.S. military's most capable UAV yet fielded. Made by San Diego-based General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc., Predator is designed to carry a 450-pound payload, fly 500 miles out and remain over an area for 24 hours. Earlier this year, it set a UAV endurance record of more than 40 continuous hours aloft. "Demonstrations, displays and briefings on the Predator were made by representatives of the Joint Project Office for UAVs, based in Arlington, Va. Representatives from Australia, Belgium, Canada, Egypt, England, Germany, Israel, Italy, Korea, and the Netherlands attended. "The Predator has operated on-and-off here for about one year, along with other UAVs supported by the post's Joint Tactical UAV Training Center. Officially, the experimental UAV is an advanced Concept Technology Demonstration program designed to exploit off-the-shelf technology, reduce costs and expedite testing and fielding. "Unlike previous U.S. military UAVs, Predator supports upper-echelon command levels, requires a paved surface for take-offs and landings and pilots require Federal Aviation Administration licensing. "Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force crews are currently training with the Predator." And this was published in "Soldiers" (the official U.S. Army magazine) dated December 1995 What's New section, compiled by Donna Miles Headline: Albania - Predator sent to Balkans "The Army's newest unmanned aerial vehicle recently deployed to Albania. "The Predator aerial reconnaissance system can take sharper pictures, stay aloft longer and avoid detection more easily than most other UAVs. It has a range of 500 miles and can stay aloft for up to 40 hours, sending images directly to a ground station that can pass the information quickly to commanders in the field. "The Predator is undergoing an 18-month field test by the 513th Military Intelligence [Brigade's] MI [Battalion], based in Orlando, Fla., which has been flying the Predator since June. At the conclusion of the test, the Army will determine if it will purchase the Predator and field it to military intelligence units Armywide. "In its first operational deployment, the Predator is based in Albania and is flying missions over Bosnia. It is being used to help NATO monitor the movements of various faction in the Balkan conflict. "Already the Predator is making news; it is the system credited with detecting suspected mass graves in the former Yugoslavia. -513th MI Bde PAO" VR, Bill Riddle ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:42:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Beryllium and RAND Is this Aerospace Corp? I know that they're in the same relationship to DoD (or maybe just USAF) that JPL is to NASA. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Michael Chui wrote: > chosa@chosa.win.net (Byron Weber) writes: > >The hard engineering side of RAND was split off and continues > >to serve as a non-profit, one client contractor, for the Air > >Force. Unlike RAND, if that company is dissolved for any reason > >they are mandated to pay any remaining assests over to the Feds. > > What is the name of this company? > > Michael Chui > mchui@cs.indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: sschaper@mo.net (Steve Schaper) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:54:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Waverider [NASP] Actually, if I am not mistaken, there are waverider studies still going on, though the object is not a manned vehicle, but long-range artillery projectiles. ------------------------------ From: Schulk Schulke Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 19:36:12 PST Subject: anomalies detected 2-3Dec95 To Byron Weber and ALL Did anyone besides Byron (especially pilots) notice any strange phenomena that occurred on the evenings of 2-3Dec95, anywhere on the US West Coast? Byron noticed a short-term, but notable, increase in static electricity near Tonopah, NV. In addition, according to Art Bell on his radio show, several pilots west of the Mississippi noticed unusual magnetic deviations on their compasses, especially in the Portland, OR area -- where compasses were off by >10 degrees, apparently only for a few hours. Both of these phenomena,(and possibly some other side-effects), if they really happened, may be related to HAARP, the High- Frequency Auroral Research Program. It's supposed to be doing some ionospheric testing -- described as "Wierd Science" in the AvWeek article on p. 11 of the 26Sep94 AWST. I've reason to believe that some calibration tests were done 2-3 Dec95, using a receiving antenna field in the CA/NV area, which would be an end-point for the straight line through Portland, OR to the HAARP antenna field in Central Alaska. The magnetic effects noticed in Portland may have been similar to the effects during SEVERE geomagnetic storms as a result of solar outbursts of energy. Schulk - ------------------------------------- Name: Schulk Schulke E-mail: hulk@gelac.lasc.lockheed.com (Schulk Schulke) This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------- Name: Schulk Schulke E-mail: schulk@gelac.lasc.lockheed.com (Schulk Schulke) Date: 06/29/95 Time: 08:39:33 This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: VVKW99B@prodigy.com (MR THEODORE CORMANEY) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:39:09 EST Subject: HALE UAVs With all due respect, if these sources are just hand-outs from Army PAO's, I would be surprised if everything _wasn't_ just perfect. My sources are much later and, in fact, higher than the two listed below. I have seen the ConOps for this system. And, oh, by the way, I didn't see anybody address the Tier Two O+M and supportability issues. Ted Cormaney * vvkw99b@prodigy.com - --[ ORIGINAL MESSAGE ]----------------- Forwarded off-line comments-TWC-: ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re[2]: H.A.L.E. aircraft. Author: Bill Riddle at FHU2 Date: 13/12/1995 8:30 AM MR THEODORE CORMANEY wrote: > There is an ACTD based on the old Amber design, called Tier Two Medium > Altitude Endurance UAV, marketed as Predator. Tier Two has to exit the > ACTD in June 96 and is seeking a leasing deal with OSD, since the > operations costs of the system are prohibitive and no customer has been > found in the Services. If he is saying that Predator does not have a customer, I don't think this is the latest situation. The following was published in the Fort Huachuca "Scout" of 30 November 1995. Headline: "Predator UAV performs for international audience" By Bill Lopez, US Army Intelligence Center & Ft Huachuca Public Affairs Office "The Predator unmanned aerial vehicle, which impressed U.S. allies with its intelligence gathering missions over Bosnia's hostile skies during the past several months, was demonstrated here Nov. 9 for representatives from 10 countries. "The $3 million Predator is the U.S. military's most capable UAV yet fielded. Made by San Diego-based General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc., Predator is designed to carry a 450-pound payload, fly 500 miles out and remain over an area for 24 hours. Earlier this year, it set a UAV endurance record of more than 40 continuous hours aloft. "Demonstrations, displays and briefings on the Predator were made by representatives of the Joint Project Office for UAVs, based in Arlington, Va. Representatives from Australia, Belgium, Canada, Egypt, England, Germany, Israel, Italy, Korea, and the Netherlands attended. "The Predator has operated on-and-off here for about one year, along with other UAVs supported by the post's Joint Tactical UAV Training Center. Officially, the experimental UAV is an advanced Concept Technology Demonstration program designed to exploit off-the-shelf technology, reduce costs and expedite testing and fielding. "Unlike previous U.S. military UAVs, Predator supports upper-echelon command levels, requires a paved surface for take-offs and landings and pilots require Federal Aviation Administration licensing. "Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force crews are currently training with the Predator." And this was published in "Soldiers" (the official U.S. Army magazine) dated December 1995 What's New section, compiled by Donna Miles Headline: Albania - Predator sent to Balkans "The Army's newest unmanned aerial vehicle recently deployed to Albania. "The Predator aerial reconnaissance system can take sharper pictures, stay aloft longer and avoid detection more easily than most other UAVs. It has a range of 500 miles and can stay aloft for up to 40 hours, sending images directly to a ground station that can pass the information quickly to commanders in the field. "The Predator is undergoing an 18-month field test by the 513th Military Intelligence [Brigade's] MI [Battalion], based in Orlando, Fla., which has been flying the Predator since June. At the conclusion of the test, the Army will determine if it will purchase the Predator and field it to military intelligence units Armywide. "In its first operational deployment, the Predator is based in Albania and is flying missions over Bosnia. It is being used to help NATO monitor the movements of various faction in the Balkan conflict. "Already the Predator is making news; it is the system credited with detecting suspected mass graves in the former Yugoslavia. -513th MI Bde PAO" VR, Bill Riddle ------------------------------ From: tonygee@GroupZ.net (Tony Gouge) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:49:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Mig-25 and Skunk Works I took the liberty of forwarding several of the messages in this thread to a friend of mine who participated in the evaluation of the MiG-25 that was flown to Japan. This is his response. > >The year was 1976. Hell, no it was no Lockheed Team. It was a joint >FME/CIA Full >Tech Unit. This was a HAVE-series project. > >Skunkworks my fanny, we briefed them after we got back with all of the tech >stuff. We had prime responsibility for doc. releasibility. > >The Lt. Victor Belinko bird was a FOXBAT A and carried a standard interceptor >missile configuration. MiG-25MP, Russian designator. > >The aircraft was completely exploited on site in Japan (Hokkado Island), >afterwards it was completly disaaembled and placed in boxes. The Soviets picked >up the boxes and transported the plane back to Russia by a ship. > In response to the comment about the "the aerodynamic shape of the Mig-25 owes a lot to the RA-5 Vigilante", he had this to say: >MiG, by R.A. Belyakov & J. Marmain, Naval Inst. Press, Annapolic,MD 1994. > >ISBN: 1-55750-566-7. Page: 383 for the MiG-25 series. It was entirely a >Russian design effort, no foreign influence involved. Later, Tony - ---- Tony Gouge Did you exchange a walk on part in the war, tonygee@GroupZ.net For a lead role in a cage? ---Pink Floyd ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #567 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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