From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #572 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 16 December 1995 Volume 05 : Number 572 In this issue: Re: Waverider [NASP] U-2s to deploy to France Boeing programs CREDIBLE SPORT C-130 Derivatives re: grounding of SR-71s See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sschaper@mo.net (Steve Schaper) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:51:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Waverider [NASP] These projectiles are being designed for hypersonic gliding to radically increase the range of Naval guns. ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:10:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: U-2s to deploy to France Latest news from the French Defense Ministry: The USAF plans to fly photo-reconnaissance missions from the French air base at Istres, to back the NATO IFOR (peace implementation force) in former Yugoslavia. Five U-2s and 130 staff from the 9th RW (Reconnaissance Wing), 9th OG (Operations Group), 99th RS (Reconnaissance Squadron), based at Beale AFB, CA, will be deployed at the air base in southern France near Marseille and will start to fly missions next month. I am not sure what units are currently based at BA 125 (Base Aerienne = Air Base #125) Istres/Le Tube, but I belive some Jaguars from of EC 4/7 (Escadron de Chasse 'Limousin' = 4th Fighter Squadron of 7th Fighter Wing) were based there until the unit was disbanded on 7/31/1989. There is/was also a detachment of the CEAM (Centre d'Experiences Aeriennes Militaires = Military Aviation Test Center) and maybe also one from the CEV (Centre d'Essais en Vol = Flight Test Center). Maybe one of our French subscribers can fill in some details -- Jean-Pierre Pharabod maybe? I believe this is the first time in the U-2 history, that they are deployed in France. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:20:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Boeing programs Paul quoted Boeing and asked for further information on the following: >"To improve the company's ability to respond quickly to customer needs, > a new rapid prototyping process has been developed... One such product > is Heliwing, an unmanned air vehicle that takes off and lands vertically > like a helicopter, flies horizontally like an airplane, and can provide > aerial reconnaissance without putting a pilot at risk." The HeliWing UAV was sponsored by the USAF, but the sole prototype crashed shortly after its first flight earlier this year, and the project is no longer funded. The HeliWing looked like a miniature version of the Hiller X-18, but was a tail-sitter. I don't think it was tilting its wing, but instead changed its attitude, like Ryan's X-13 e.g. >"The Defense and Space Group is on the forward edge of military and space > technology... Other potential opportunities being pursued include a > possible replacement for NASA's aging Space Shuttle fleet." That might be their proposal for the X-33 (or another SSTO/TSTO RLV) they were working on, possibly together with MDD. >"The current major developmental programs, principally [are] the Space > Station, F-22 fighter, V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft and RAH-66 > Comanche helicopter... the major revenue-producing programs [also] > include... continuing B-2 bomber subcontract work, other program > support, and classified project activities." Space Station, F-22, V-22, RAH-66 and B-2 are fairly well known, and other "classified project activities" sound very interesting, and may include upgrades of E/K/N/O/R/WC-135 and other military applications of their commercial airliners, like B-707s and B-747s. Of course, they probably also work on really 'classified' programs, we don't know about (yet). - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:07:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: CREDIBLE SPORT C-130 Sherman, In reply to your (following) post to r.a.m, I may have some information for you. I also forward this post to the Skunk Works mailing list. Sherman Collings wrote: >I'm looking for information/photographs on the CREDIBLE SPORT C-130. These >highly modified Hercs were to be used on a second Iran rescue attempt called >OPERATION HONEY BADGER. They were equipped with retro-rockets, high-lift >wings and booster rockets. One is on display at Warner-Robins AFB, but has >had almost all of its special equipment removed. I saw a full-up CREDIBLE >SPORT on the Lockheed ramp at Marietta in 1984, but of course, no >photographs were allowed. >I manufacture resin model aircraft kits and would like to accurately >represent this Amazing Herc. Thanks I read about these aircraft in 1988 in the following book: Title: Colors and Markings of the C-130 Hercules Subtitle: Special Purpose Aircraft Author: Ray Leader Series: Colors & Markings - C&M Vol. 7 Publisher: Detail & Scale Inc. Publisher: TAB Books Inc., Blue Ridge Summit, PA 17214, USA Year: 1987 ISBN: 0-8306-8531-6 (pbck) On pages 3 and 4 in the introduction, Bert Kinzey from Detail & Scale writes: "While there may be some short-lived one-of-a-kind uses of the Hercules that are not covered, major "Special purpose" programs are included with one notable exception. Three airframes were specially modified to take-off and land in a very short distance, with the intention being to use them to extract the American hostages in Iran. Information about these aircraft has been released, but to our knowledge, no photograph has been published to date. While we were able to take general and detailed photographs of one of these aircraft, both in-flight and on the ground, we have been asked not to publish them for security reasons. We are complying with this request, and are not including these photographs in this publication. A lot of controversy has been stirred up lately over the release of several F-19 Stealth models, and certainly the American press has many times released information and photographs that they have been aseked not to because of security reasons. They cite the public's "right to know" to excuse their actions. We do not share this philosophy, and choose to be more concerned with those who may have to fly these aircraft in the future, and with those in the defense establishment who are concerned with defending our freedoms and rights, than we are in presenting a "scoop" in one of our publications or becoming part of a controversy. Perhaps we will be able to publish these unusual photographs in a future Detail & Scale publication when the time is right, and when they are not considered sensitive. But for now we have decided to leave them out of this book." I don't believe they ever published those photographs, but maybe now is the time to ask them to do so. I would also be personally interested in the serial numbers of those three airframes. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:54:08 -0600 Subject: Derivatives This may be a bit off topic, but if you consider the recent discussions of who copied whose aircraft (MiG-25 vs. A3J/A-5), maybe not... Does anyone know if the Curtiss XP-55 Ascender (ass-ender) design was derived from the Japanese Shinden Kyushu (J7), or possibly vice versa? I've only seen artist's depictions of each, and don't have any dimensional or chronological information, but there IS a great deal of resemblance (pardon my ignorance if this relationship is considered common knowledge)... Greg Fieser (since I am self-employed, the above views DO reflect those of my employer) ------------------------------ From: albert.dobyns@mwbbs.com (ALBERT DOBYNS) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 17:56:00 -0500 Subject: re: grounding of SR-71s MS> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:51:28 -0500 (EST) > From: Mary Shafer > Subject: re: grounding of SR-71s MS> Er, it costs a great deal more than 35K per hour to fly the SR-71, > particularly if you're the Air Force. Mary, I have wondered about the operating costs of the SR-71 from time to time. $35K/hour is the lowest value I've seen. Some books and magazine and newspaper articles have listed costs ranging from $50K to $250K per hour. What is never made clear is just what specific costs they are using to come up with their numbers. If you leave out the cost of the tankers and all the support needed to keep them flying, then I can see how a lower number is quoted. Perhaps there is some standard formula one should use in figuring out the hourly rate and I'm just not aware of it. Can you disclose what NASA charges its customers? Even a ballpark figure would be interesting, but if that violates NASA policy then forget I asked. MS> Regards, > Mary And regards from Al. - --- þ SLMR 2.1a þ ... thistaglinebroughttoyoubythemakersofpkzip ... ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #572 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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