From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #599 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 13 January 1996 Volume 05 : Number 599 In this issue: U-2 Re: A human who can hover Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #598 Mail failure Re F117 Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Mail failure See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 02:52:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: U-2 This is a relative old news because I was out in vacation but as Andrea said: "It is better late than never" This is from Aerospace America magazine (the magazine from AIAA) December 1995, pag. 17. "Lockheed's U-2 reconnaissance aircraft was updated, incorporating state-of-the art propulsion, autopilot, and air data systems. The autopilot and air data systems use vyros, instead of traditional mechanical gyros, for rate measurements. The vyro is a current-carrying, vibrating wire that generates a magnetic field. This field, coupled with any rotation of the wire, causes a change in current thus allows the angular rate of rotation to be determined." May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mail: wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: TrimtabNYC@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 03:32:54 -0500 Subject: Re: A human who can hover I know it took him seven years to develop it. The equipment is said to cost about $700,000 that makes it possible. And thanks to all this, one person I know of has the ability to hover, fly solo, and fly while carrying a passenger in his arms (only pretty women may apply). I am referring, of course, to the magician, David Copperfield. Whatever he uses to pull this off (and I'm not really interested in knowing how he does it) may not have a practical use, in the normal sense of the word; but it does create a lot of pleasure for people to see him fly, which is good enough for me. ------------------------------ From: quagga@world.std.com Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:15:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #598 Re: Moller Volantor Skycar Andreas Gehrs-Paul mentioned that Moller Industries was recently let a Calspan contract to develop their rotary engine for use as an APU for an electric car. From their webpage I gather they hope to power their "volantor" with eight of these engines: http://www.moller.com/~mi <-- interesting pix, stuff there (obligatory vaguely skunky reference:) I wonder if the rotary engine of theirs is inherently quiet. I don't know how sneaky such a vehicle with eight engines turning might be, particularly under microprocessor control shifting throttle independently. Probably a big whining cacophany. Who knows, with the help of the Calstart contract, these guys might finally be able to get this critter off the ground (so to speak). Happy websurfing. Cheryl Douglas USPA A-19274 Artist/Skydiver/Engineer/Irritant/Aspiring Pilot Chick Cybervid Corporation Tactical Nuclear Weapons Division Nashua NH USA quagga@world.std.com http://world.std.com/~quagga \o/ "Ich habe festgestellt, das es N I C H T S gibt, was Deine (( Aufmerksamkeit schneller und vollstaendiger fesselt, als ein \\ sich nicht oeffender Fallschirm!" ------------------------------ From: POSTMASTER@RPSPO2.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 08:37:00 PST Subject: Mail failure [002] Mail was received that was addressed to unknown addresses. Mail item was not delivered to: ATTATLMFG/RPSPO2/cfoster - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return-Path: <@attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM:skunk-works@mail.orst.edu> Received: from attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM by attatl.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM id <30F68F44@attatl.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM>; Fri, 12 Jan 96 08:41:40 PST From mail.orst.edu!skunk-works Fri Jan 12 08:22 EST 1996 remote from attatl Received: by attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM; 12 Jan 96 08:22:03 EST Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with UUCP id IAA12183 for rpspo2.atlantaga.attgis.com!cfoster; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:22:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 12 Jan 96 08:20:50 EST Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA01874 for skunk-works-digest-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:37:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA01868 for skunk-works-digest-send@mail.orst.edu; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:37:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:37:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601120837.AAA01868@mail.orst.edu> From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #598 Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@mail.orst.edu Skunk Works Digest Friday, 12 January 1996 Volume 05 : Number 598 In this issue: Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Re: Bell Rocket Belt Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Moller Skycar Re: Bell Rocket Belt Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Re: Jet Backpack Re: Re[2]: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Re: Moller Skycar Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Skunky books U-2 and other LMSW news Upcoming F-117 lecture CD-Rom Hovering things Re: Hovering things RE: Jet Backpack Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 14:17:46 MET Subject: Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question I just noticed that I forgot the "hovercrafts" in my last posted list... So here is a still more complete (but probably not definitive) list: Can hover, but with the help of the wind (including ascending): 1.1) Kites (need string(s) too) 1.2) Parapentes and probably some or all other parachutes 1.3) Hang gliders and probably some other gliders (sailplanes) 1.4) Some (ultra)-lights with engines Can hover, even without any wind, (rather) far from the ground: 2.1) LTAV = Lighter Than Air Vehicles (balloons, airships) 2.2) Helicopter mode: helicopters, some VTOL planes (V-22 Osprey) (is the disk-shaped Sikorsky Cypher (?) really an helicopter?) 2.3) Jet mode: some VTOL planes (Harrier), some other planes (Mig 29), jet back packs. 2.4) Mixture LTAV-helicopter: Heli-Stat 2.5) (Hypothetical ?) crafts creating their own lift at speed 0, neither helicopter mode nor jet mode. Can hover without any wind, but only at or near ground level ("effet de sol" in French, is that "ground effect" in English?) 3.1) "Hovercrafts", like those which cross the Channel (I have seen them really hovering before starting or before stopping) 3.2) Maybe some big Russian crafts, which seem to be somehow different. Maybe they need some speed, I don't recall precisely. Now some of you competent people can write a book entitled "Hovering" - - - and earn money! J. Pharabod - ------------------------------ From: fmarkus@pipeline.com (Frank Markus) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:42:57 -0500 Subject: Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question On Jan 11, 1996 11:53:57, '"J. Pharabod" ' wrote: >P.S. To Frank Markus: > >>I believe that the Brilliant Pebbles prototype was demonstrated hovering in >>a hangar. It was designed as a orbital anti-missile device but as not >>permitted in outer space because of the ABM treaty. >>Frank Markus (Wed, 10 Jan 1996 19:26:47 -0500) > >Could it be placed inside one of the items of the above list ? > I don't think so. The Brilliant Pebbles kill vehicle had little rockets that were aimed along each axis of possible movement (up, down, left, right, front and back) so that it could be propelled in any direction. Although the device was intended to operate from Earth orbit, the rockets were powerful enough that the device could overcome gravity and be demonstrated hovering in an earthbound hangar. - ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 11-Jan-1996 0856 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 09:07:26 EST Subject: Re: Bell Rocket Belt Steve Brant wrote: >The "Bell jet pack" (best name I recall for this) was demonstrated at the >1964 World's Fair in NYC. It was also used as an "escape method" by James >Bond in one of the early Sean Connery films (I think "You Only Live Twice"), It was also used in the first season of "Lost in Space", by Guy Whatshisname (Will R.'s dad). As I recall, one of the major drawbacks of the RB in real life was the extremely short mission duration (on the order of 30 sec.). Williams Research built a two-person flying platform using one of their small turbofans in the 1970s, which seemed to be a more useful device. On another topic, re: World Airpower Journal, let me second the recommendation. It's a beautifully produced journal with excellent photography, and is written with the organizational and technical detail for which the Brits are justly famous. Each issue is a keeper, IMO. I think it's a quarterly. George George Allegrezza | Digital Equipment Corporation | "Those pigs may be hogs, but they're Mobile Systems Business | kosher, capisce?" Littleton MA USA | allegrezza@ljsrv2.enet.dec.com | -- Robert Goulet - ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 15:26:24 MET Subject: Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question >I don't think so. The Brilliant Pebbles kill vehicle had little rockets >that were aimed along each axis of possible movement (up, down, left, >right, front and back) so that it could be propelled in any direction. >Although the device was intended to operate from Earth orbit,the rockets >were powerful enough that the device could overcome gravity and be >demonstrated hovering in an earthbound hangar. >Frank Markus (Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:42:57 -0500) I did not think of these rockets! Please add to my last list: 2.6) Rocket mode: DC-X (prototype of SSTO - Single Stage To Orbit), Brilliant Pebbles kill vehicle. J. Pharabod - ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 11-Jan-1996 0910 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 09:22:55 EST Subject: Moller Skycar J Pharabod wrote: >Discovery channel ran a special on inventors where one inventor had a >quiet craft which hovered to 50 ft. It's my belief that if an inventor >with relatively few resources can build a craft which hovers at this >height, then the DOD must possess craft at least as capable as this. I >recorded this program. Eight small 2-cycle engines were employed, which I >found amazing that they could generate the lift and give a motionless >hover. This might have been the Moller Skycar, which appears on the cover of Popular Mechanics every five or six years as the Next Big Breakthrough In Personal Flight. The last rev I saw used eight Rotax Wankel engines, each driving a ducted fan with a shutter assembly to handle transition from VTO to forward flight. I think Mr. Moller has demonstrated hover and not much else, although I welcome correction on this. Such a vehicle, if it worked, would be very skunky and useful for short range extraction missions (honey, go pick up the kids at Chucky Cheese). Seriously, it might work but eight engines and associated fans must have lots of potential failure points. I'd be worried about complexity and relibility in everyday use, let alone covert/combat missions. George George Allegrezza | Digital Equipment Corporation | "Those pigs may be hogs, but they're Mobile Systems Business | kosher, capisce?" Littleton MA USA | allegrezza@ljsrv2.enet.dec.com | -- Robert Goulet - ------------------------------ From: (Jay Waller) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 10:33:19 EST Subject: Re: Bell Rocket Belt George wrote: >>Williams Research built a two-person flying platform using one of their small turbofans in the 1970s, which seemed to be a more useful device. Glencoe Models of Canada produced a model kit of this a few years ago. So if anyone is curious as to what it looks like you may could check with a local hobby store to see if they have it. From what I remember, it looked like the number 8 lying flat with a fan in the center of the circular parts. It looked even odder than the infamous Avrocar. Regards, Jay - ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:21:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, J. Pharabod wrote: > I just noticed that I forgot the "hovercrafts" in my last posted list... > So here is a still more complete (but probably not definitive) list: > Now some of you competent people can write a book entitled "Hovering" > - and earn money! > J. Pharabod Don't forget what potential "mothers-in-law" do to you when you're busy filling out the Wedding Guest-list. ;-) regards, ________ BaDge - ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:10:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Jet Backpack > > The "Bell jet pack" (best name I recall for this) was demonstrated at the > 1964 World's Fair in NYC. It was also used as an "escape method" by James > Bond in one of the early Sean Connery films (I think "You Only Live Twice"), > > -Steve Brant > Let's not forget the '60's TV show "Lost In Space", where the jet pack was used about once an episode (it seems) by one of the characters (can't remember his name...) Seems the ill-fated craft they flew (crashed) was patterned after all of the saucer-shaped UFOs that proliferated the '60's too. A few memory joggers follow: "Danger, Danger, Will Robinson!!!" (Robot) "Oh, the pain, the pain..." (Dr. Smith) Any more sightings? Greg Fieser (I'm older than I act...) - ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:30:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Re[2]: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Well, this is a good time to add that Friday's WINGS will be showing VTOL craft, (fixed-wing) 1800 EST. regards, ________ BaDge - ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 16:33:24 MET Subject: Re: Moller Skycar >Such a vehicle, if it worked, would be very skunky and useful for short range >extraction missions (honey, go pick up the kids at Chucky Cheese). Seriously, >it might work but eight engines and associated fans must have lots of >potential failure points. I'd be worried about complexity and relibility in >everyday use, let alone covert/combat missions. >George Allegrezza (Thu, 11 Jan 96 09:22:55 EST) Agreed, but that's Mr. Moller's one. I am pretty sure that there are in the USA (and elsewhere) a lot of powerful institutions which can do far better, probably with less than eight engines. J. Pharabod - ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:44:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question Jean-Pierre Pharabod wrote: >Discovery channel ran a special on inventors where one inventor had a >quiet craft which hovered to 50 ft. It's my belief that if an inventor >with relatively few resources can build a craft which hovers at this >height, then the DOD must possess craft at least as capable as this. I >recorded this program. Eight small 2-cycle engines were employed, which I >found amazing that they could generate the lift and give a motionless >hover. This vehicle is not very secret or unconventional in any respect (that I am aware of). It is most likely one of Moller International's proof of concept vehicles for their 'Skycar'. I would place the Cypher and the Moller vehicles together with all the other propeller/fan driven VTOL aircraft/vehicles, like the Hiller VZ-1 and the Piasecki VZ-8, in the same group. I believe the size is important, because the bigger the vehicle, the less efficient is this VTOL configuration. Here is a little about Moller from the current News: >Two projects involve developing and demonstrating efficient rotary engines >to power electrical generators on hybrid electric vehicles. Rotary engines >are quiet and durable and produce the same power in roughly one third the >space of conventional engines. >* Alturdyne Inc., of San Diego, will build a 40-kilowatt (kW) rotary power > unit which will drive an integrated generator. The unit will be tested > aboard a next-generation hybrid electric transit bus being built by APS > Systems of Oxnard, Calif. >* Moller International, Davis, Calif., will build and test a 22 kW rotary > engine as an auxiliary power unit on a hybrid electric vehicle operated > by the University of California at Davis. >CALSTART is a California nonprofit consortium dedicated to creating an >advanced transportation industry in the state. Its more than 160 participants >include electronic, defense and aerospace technology firms, vehicle >manufacturers, transit districts, all the state's major natural gas and >electric utilities, public agencies and labor and environmental groups. >For more information and photos, visit CALSTART's World Wide Web site at: >http://www.calstart.org - - -- Andreas - - --- - --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - - --- - --- - ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:45:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Skunky books Zenith Books is advertising a new SR-71 book, supposed to be available on May 15, 1996: Title: SR-71 Revealed -- The Untold Story Author: former SR-71 pilot and 9th SRW Commander (07/1987 - 11/1988) Col. Richard 'Rich' H. Graham Remarks: Sftbd., 6"x9", 224 pgs., approx. 75 b&w ill. Item#: 122803AP Price: $19.95 I have ordered it. Also, Jay Miller's second editon of his book: "Lockheed Skunk Works - The Official History" is now available. - - -- Andreas - - --- - --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - - --- - --- - ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:52:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: U-2 and other LMSW news I must have missed it, but the planned deployment of the U-2s to France is already underway, and the aircraft are operational at Istres AB. Does anyone have further information? The latest World Air Power Journal (WAPJ), Volume 23, Winter 1995, has a small article regarding the U-2 on page 14: OL-UK U-2s move base The three U-2s of Operating Location - United Kingdom (OL-UK) moved from RAF Alconbury to RAF Fairford on 15 March 1995. The operation has remained in Europe to perform reconnaissance duties in support of the 'No-Fly Zone' over Bosnia. They are fitted with a variety of sensors and equipment. One has the Senior Span satellite communications system in a large dorsal teardrop fairing. The other two U-2s house their equipment in the standard nose, Q-bay and super pods, and include the ASARS-2 system in an extended nosecone. The super pods contain a variety of sideways-looking radar sensors and Sigint antennas. The move to Fairford will only be temporary as the unit is due to relocate to Italy by the beginning of Fiscal Year 1996. And the new LMSW Star reported about a proposal for a British U-2 derivative, the project ASTOR (Airborne Standoff Radar), due to be presented in March. Because I still haven't subscribed to the Star, maybe someone else can post the article in question, and other Star news? Generally, the Skunk Works are busy with updating U-2s and F-117s and working on the Tier 3- DarkStar and a new proposal for an advanced, bigger, stealthy UAV. On the other hand, Lockheed apparently has given up all plans to build any LTAVs (Lighter-Than-Air Vehicle) like the proposed heavy lift transporter. - - -- Andreas - - --- - --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - - --- - --- - ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 14:54:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upcoming F-117 lecture A lecture, titled "F-117: Development Thru Tactical Deployment", by Dennis Giangreco, is scheduled for next Thursday, January 18, 1996, at the USAF Museum (USAFM) at Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio. The lecture, as well as the museum visit, are free of charge. The USAFM is open from 9:00 to 17:00 (9 a.m. to 5 p.m.) and the doors are opened again at 18:30 (6:30 p.m.) for the lecture, which begins at 19:30 (7:30 p.m). The bookstore and giftshop will be open during that time. Dennis M. Giangreco is the author of "Stealth Fighter Pilot", and he will probably sign his books afterwards. Kathryn and I plan to attend, and we may make it a long weekend at the USAFM. :) - - -- Andreas - - --- - --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - - --- - --- - ------------------------------ From: tcrobi@most.magec.com (Tom Robison) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 15:56:52 +0500 Subject: CD-Rom This is from the latest issue (1/8/96) of Design News Magazine: "Ten thousand pages of government information about aviation is packed onto a single CD-ROM. The disk holds full text images and bibliographic descriptions of 179 reports from NASA and NACA. The reports, which date from 1923 to 1987, cover a wide swath of technical topics, including airfoils, aircraft stability and control, and propulsion. You can search the disk, called "Legacy", by subject, title, author, report number, publication date or keywords in abstracts. Legacy operates on Windows, DOS, or Mac systems. You can get one for $70 from the National Technical Information Services of the U.S. Department of Commerce. Phone (703) 487-4650. Ask for order number PB95-503439KZA." The above is not an endorsement of the product. I'm only repeating the article about it that was in the indicated magazine, for what it's worth. Tom Robison, Ossian Indiana tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com or TCRobi0648@aol.com ' (oo) - - -------oOOO-()-OOOo-------- - ------------------------------ From: lips@watson.ibm.com (James Lipscomb) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 17:53:12 -0500 Subject: Hovering things For hovering backpacks and such see Jim Noetzel's Flying Contraption Page: http://www.prysm.com/~jnuts/jnuts.htm He has about a page on 10 devices, including photos. Not for the faint of heart: * de Lackner DH-4 Heli-Vector 1955 Flying Lawnmower * Hiller VZ-1E Flying Platform 1955 Flying Fan * Magill's Pinwheel 1957 Interesting history * Hiller XROE-1 Rotorcycle 1957 1 man chopper * Avrocar ?? (Just a picture) * Rocket Backpack 1961 This is what started all of my research * Jet Backpack 1968 (Just a picture for now) * Williams WASP 1974 (Just a picture for now) * PAM Group PAM-100B NOW Exciting new flying platform * Moller Volantor Present Latest and greatest vision > Subject: Re[2]: To hover or not to hover, that is the question > Author: Bill Riddle at FHU2 > Date: 10/1/1996 1:04 PM > > .... > > I would add to the list the jet back packs (don't know their actual name) that > the US Army developed. I hope someone on the list can add more. > > .... > > Bill Riddle > - ------------------------------ From: Side Show Marc Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 17:20:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Hovering things On Wings one night long ago they had a whole segment devoted to the jet packs and discused their (limited) military applications. One of the more entertaining clips they showed was a demo film put together by one of the manufacturers that had what look like Estes model rockets mounted on the frame of the pack. The pilot would swoop down in front of a mock bunker and open fire, the only problem (as anyone who's broken the estes model rocket code can attest too) was that the rockets went everywhere since they were fired from a horizontal moving platform. The narrator also pointed out that the film was pieced together from several clips since the flight time was in the neighborhood of 45 seconds. ___________ Marc Studer ___________________________________________ | " . . . The ground wins 100% | "In a Marc vs Twinkie engagement, of the time." - F-111 Pilot | the Marc wins 100% of the time." | ______________________________________ mstuder@spu.edu ___________ On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, James Lipscomb wrote: > For hovering backpacks and such see Jim Noetzel's Flying Contraption Page: > > http://www.prysm.com/~jnuts/jnuts.htm > > He has about a page on 10 devices, including photos. Not for the faint > of heart: > > * de Lackner DH-4 Heli-Vector 1955 Flying Lawnmower > * Hiller VZ-1E Flying Platform 1955 Flying Fan > * Magill's Pinwheel 1957 Interesting history > * Hiller XROE-1 Rotorcycle 1957 1 man chopper > * Avrocar ?? (Just a picture) > * Rocket Backpack 1961 This is what started all of my research > * Jet Backpack 1968 (Just a picture for now) > * Williams WASP 1974 (Just a picture for now) > * PAM Group PAM-100B NOW Exciting new flying platform > * Moller Volantor Present Latest and greatest vision > > > Subject: Re[2]: To hover or not to hover, that is the question > > Author: Bill Riddle at FHU2 > > Date: 10/1/1996 1:04 PM > > > > .... > > > > I would add to the list the jet back packs (don't know their actual name) that > > > the US Army developed. I hope someone on the list can add more. > > > > .... > > > > Bill Riddle > > > - ------------------------------ From: Alan Voliva Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:34:43 -0800 Subject: RE: Jet Backpack TrimtabNYC@aol.com wrote: > > The "Bell jet pack" (best name I recall for this) was demonstrated at the > 1964 World's Fair in NYC. It was also used as an "escape method" by James > Bond in one of the early Sean Connery films (I think "You Only Live Twice"), > and, finally, I saw a Michael Jackson use one (I'm sure it was a stunt > double) to end a live concert that was broadcast a few years ago on either > public television on MTV. Come to think of it, David Letterman rigged up a > fake one for Sean Connery to use to enter the studio during an appearance on > his show a year or two ago. > I think I bought a back issue of Popular Mechanics from the 1960's that had > a story on it. If I can find it, I'll post more factual info. It's > something that has always fascinated me. > > -Steve Brant There are actually two types of jetpacks out there. One developed for the miltary is a small platform that can carry up to two people for I think 15 seconds. Another, which many have described, is privately owned by an individual in Florida, who has 8-10 trained pilots that fly at shows. I once approached him to get 90%+ hydrogen peroxide that the craft employs. The basic principle is this. 90% H2O2 is dripped rapidly on a silver screen to produce steam and oxygen, both producing lift. Flight duration of this smaller craft is ~ 10-12 seconds max. Tanks are very pure aluminum, since many other alloys catalyze the rapid (sometimes explosive) decomposition of the peroxide. Aluminum forms an oxide film rapidly which prevents further reaction. Regards, Alan Voliva - ------------------------------ From: chosa@chosa.win.net (Byron Weber) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:21:53 Subject: Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question The Brilliant Pebbles 1990 miniaturized Martin Space-Based Interceptor Kinetic Kill vehicle hovers in a picture on pg 49 in Weapons of the 21st Century by Bill Yenne using only one jet blasting downward. Also shown is a prototypical SBI named "hover test vehicle" at Edwards AFB, California, 31 July 1990. The answer is yes, these engines probably can be, and probably have been, and probably are being used in vehicles. Smaller jets are aimed at each horizontal axis, but I dont think the engineering difficulties mounting them would be insurmountable. You just might get away with large jets on the bottom middle and rear and smaller one on either side with a stablizing two on the sides rear. Then, add some kind of wing- The trust to weight ratio for these things is incredible. Byron >On Jan 11, 1996 11:53:57, '"J. Pharabod" ' >wrote: > > > >>P.S. To Frank Markus: >> >>>I believe that the Brilliant Pebbles prototype was demonstrated hovering >in >>>a hangar. It was designed as a orbital anti-missile device but as not >>>permitted in outer space because of the ABM treaty. >>>Frank Markus (Wed, 10 Jan 1996 19:26:47 -0500) >> >>Could it be placed inside one of the items of the above list ? >> > >I don't think so. The Brilliant Pebbles kill vehicle had little rockets >that were aimed along each axis of possible movement (up, down, left, >right, front and back) so that it could be propelled in any direction. >Although the device was intended to operate from Earth orbit, the rockets >were powerful enough that the device could overcome gravity and be >demonstrated hovering in an earthbound hangar. > - ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #598 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number). ------------------------------ From: celestine@cix.compulink.co.uk (Grahame Stockton) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 20:46 GMT Subject: Re F117 On 12-1-96 Andreas wrote:- I hope you have a nice weekend and gather lots of interesting info to share with use all. # The UK tv channel is showing a series of Programmes on the Gulf War and this weeks part showed lots of great F117 shots...ooooh they looked fantastic. Tis no wonder in its early days many thought they were Extra Terrestrial vehicles. # Have a couple of ~Buds~ on me! Grahame ~~~more-heart-less-head~~~ Falmouth. Cornwall. UK. ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 13:32:01 -0600 Subject: Re: To hover or not to hover, that is the question > > I believe that the Brilliant Pebbles prototype was demonstrated hovering in > a hangar. It was designed as a orbital anti-missile device but as not > permitted in outer space because of the ABM treaty. > Frank Markus (Wed, 10 Jan 1996 19:26:47 -0500) > This prototype used radial maneuvering thrusters to guide it to "impact" with it's "target". The hangar tests involved suspending the prototype (over a net) and with it's sensors locked on to a stationary target some (horizontal) distance away. When the prototype was released, the resulting fall simulated a deviation from it's intended path. The radial thrusters then fired to try and maintain target lock against the force of gravity, which resulted in 'hovering'. When the test ended (propellant was expended) the device fell into the "safety net". This is the same concept (although different implementation) as was employed on the long-defunct ASAT missile, the PAC-3 Patriot replacement, and probably several others. I remember witnessing the ASAT sensor tests back in the early '70's with the same kind of "drop-test" scenario. The point is that, while the BP prototype did hover, that was not it's designed mode of operation (hovering) - just an interesting side effect of the test program. I don't dispute it's inclusion in the 'hover list', just thought some might enjoy additional background... Greg Fieser "since I'm self-employed, the above views do represent those of my employer..." ------------------------------ From: POSTMASTER@RPSPO2.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 05:56:00 PST Subject: Mail failure [002] Mail was received that was addressed to unknown addresses. Mail item was not delivered to: ATTATLMFG/RPSPO2/cfoster - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return-Path: <@attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM:skunk-works@mail.orst.edu> Received: from attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM by attatl.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM id <30F7BB14@attatl.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM>; Sat, 13 Jan 96 06:00:52 PST From mail.orst.edu!skunk-works Sat Jan 13 04:57 EST 1996 remote from attatl Received: by attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM; 13 Jan 96 04:57:26 EST Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub5.attgis.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with UUCP id EAA18022 for rpspo2.atlantaga.attgis.com!cfoster; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 04:57:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 13 Jan 96 04:56:46 EST Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18339 for skunk-works-digest-outgoing; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from gaia.ucs.orst.edu (majordom@gaia.UCS.ORST.EDU [128.193.4.2]) by mail.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA18334 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gaia.ucs.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA13565 for skunk-works-digest-send@mail.orst.edu; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:06:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:06:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601130806.AAA13565@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #598 Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@mail.orst.edu Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 13 January 1996 Volume 05 : Number 598 In this issue: Re: A human who can hover See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrimtabNYC@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 03:32:54 -0500 Subject: Re: A human who can hover I know it took him seven years to develop it. The equipment is said to cost about $700,000 that makes it possible. And thanks to all this, one person I know of has the ability to hover, fly solo, and fly while carrying a passenger in his arms (only pretty women may apply). I am referring, of course, to the magician, David Copperfield. Whatever he uses to pull this off (and I'm not really interested in knowing how he does it) may not have a practical use, in the normal sense of the word; but it does create a lot of pleasure for people to see him fly, which is good enough for me. - ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #598 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number). ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #599 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@mail.orst.edu A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from mail.orst.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).