From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #601 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 18 January 1996 Volume 05 : Number 601 In this issue: Re: Soviet Lifting-Body Pictures and ASAT systems Spy Satellites Re: Spy Satellites Air-launched missiles Re: Spy Satellites Re: Spy Satellites Mail failure See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:03:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Soviet Lifting-Body Pictures and ASAT systems The MiG izdeliye (product/project) 105-11 was a proof-of-concept aircraft for the EPOS (experimental manned orbital vehicle) under the later canceled 'Spiral' project. The acquired data was used for the 'Buran' project, though. The aircraft made a series of ground rolls and some small 'hops' between 1976 and 1978, and one test flight, reaching an altitude of 560 m (1,853 ft) and a flight distance of about 19 km (12 miles). Between November 27, 1977 and September 1978, the aircraft made eight flights from a Tu-95K to assess the low-speed flight characteristics of the lifting body. Technical Data (from MiG - Fifty Years of Secret Aircraft Designs): * Wing Area: 6.6 m^2 (71.04 sq ft) * Lifting body/fuselage area: 24 m^2 (258.3 sq ft) * Empty weight: 3,500 kg (7,715 lb) * Takeoff weight: 4,220 kg (9,300 lb) * Landing weight: 3,700 kg (8,155 lb) * Fuel and oil: 500 kg (1,100 lb) * Wing loading: 640 kg/m^2 (131.2 lb/sq ft) * Landing speed: 250-270 km/h (135-146 kts) * Engine: Kolyesov RD-36-35K turbojet * Thrust: 0.196 kN (2,000 kg st) **** The Project 'Bold Orion' missile (WS-119B = Weapons System 119B) or Project '7795', which was successfully tested from a B-47s against Explorer VI on October 13, 1959, went never beyond the experimental stage. The two-stage missile did not destroy Explorer VI, but rather passed it at a distance of about 4 miles, which was declared a successful flight. Here is a list of all 12 USAF Project 'Bold Orion' launches from Boeing B-47 Stratojets at the Air Force Missile Test Center, Cape Canaveral, FL: Date Vehicle Payload/Status - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 05/26/58 B-47/Bold Orion 1-Stage # 1 Bold Orion ASAT test Phase I; Successful; 06/27/58 B-47/Bold Orion 1-Stage # 2 Bold Orion ASAT test Phase II; Failed: high pitch attitude caused erratic flight; 07/18/58 B-47/Bold Orion 1-Stage # 3 Bold Orion ASAT test Phase II; Failed: 90 degrees roll tumbled gyro causing erratic flight; 09/25/58 B-47/Bold Orion 1-Stage # 4 Bold Orion ASAT test Phase II; Failed: RSO (rocket-engine shut-off) at T+19 sec.; 10/10/58 B-47/Bold Orion 1-Stage # 5 Bold Orion ASAT test Phase II; Failed: RSO at T+26 sec.; 11/17/58 B-47/Bold Orion 1-Stage # 6 Bold Orion ASAT test Phase II; Successful; 12/08/58 B-47/Bold Orion 2-Stage # 7 Bold Orion ASAT test Phase III; Failed: 1st 2-stage version, dud; 12/16/58 B-47/Bold Orion 2-Stage # 8 Bold Orion ASAT test; Successful: 1,100 miles downrange, 1st successful 2-stage version; 04/2/59 B-47/Bold Orion 2-Stage # 3 Bold Orion ASAT test; Failed: 2nd stage failed to operate; 06/08/59 B-47/Bold Orion 1-Stage # 7 Bold Orion ASAT test; Successful; 06/19/59 B-47/Bold Orion 1-Stage # 8 Bold Orion ASAT test; Successful; 10/13/59 B-47/Bold Orion 2-Stage # 4 Bold Orion ASAT test; Successful: 160 miles high, came within 4 miles of Explorer VI; I don't know what happened to the other four 2-Stage 'Bold Orion' missiles # 1, # 2, # 5, and # 6, but they were probably either used for ground tests or may have been preserved, somewhere. The USN later initiated its own air-launched ASAT program, dubbed 'Hi-Ho', which involved another missile, launched from an F-4H Phantom II. Here is a list of all 5 USN Project 'Hi-Ho' launches from McDonnell Douglas F-4H Phantom IIs at China Lake, CA: Date Vehicle Payload/Status - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 07/28/60 F-4H/Caleb rocket TV-1 Hi-Ho Test Vehicle #1; Only 1st stage live; 10/24/60 F-4H/Caleb rocket TV-2 Hi-Ho Test Vehicle #2; Successful: 2nd stage failed to fire; 10/05/61 F-4H/Caleb rocket NC17.116 Hi-Ho #1 ASAT test; Failed: 6 miles high; 03/26/62 F-4H/Caleb rocket NC17.121 Hi-Ho #2 ASAT test; Failed: 13 miles high; 07/26/62 F-4H/Caleb rocket NC17.117 Hi-Ho #3 ASAT test; Successful: 725.5 miles high; There were actually several air-launched missiles tested in the late 1950s and early 1960s, which proved to be able to reach orbit, either to destroy low flying (reconnaissance) satellites, or to place small (reconnaissance) satellites into LEO (Low Earth Orbit). An example for the latter purpose was a NOTS-designed (Naval Ordnance Test Station) missile, as part of Operation 'Argus', the high-altitude nuclear test explosions. Under this program, NOTS developed a five-stage missile which was launched from an F4D-1 Skyray, to place a tv-carrying observation satellite into orbit. Six attempts were made between July and August 1958, but none were really successful. Here is a list of all 6 USN Project 'Pilot' (?) NOTS I (Naval Observational Television Satellite 1) launch attempts from Douglas F4D-1 Skyrays, at China Lake, CA: Date Vehicle Payload/Status - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 07/25/58 F4D-1 Skyray/NOTS I Project Pilot Orbital Attempt #1; Failed: lost control at T+.0 5sec., missile broke up; 08/12/58 F4D-1 Skyray/NOTS I Project Pilot Orbital Attempt #2; Failed: motor blew up at launch; 08/22/58 F4D-1 Skyray/NOTS I Project Pilot Orbital Attempt #3; Successful: missile disappeared over horizon, may have achieved orbit, possible contacts; 08/25/58 F4D-1 Skyray/NOTS I Project Pilot Orbital Attempt #4; Failed: motor blew up at T+0.75 sec.; 08/26/58 F4D-1 Skyray/NOTS I Project Pilot Orbital Attempt #5; Failed: missile didn't ignite and fell into ocean; 08/28/58 F4D-1 Skyray/NOTS I Project Pilot Orbital Attempt #6; Failed: one motor didn't ignite and missile lost control; There were also several more or less successful ground/sea-based systems and projects, like the USN 'Early Spring' series, utilizing UGM-27 Polaris, the US Army Project '505'/'Mudflap', using an XLIM-49A Nike Zeus (declared operational on August 1, 1963, after several tests, but was later abandoned), USAF Project '437'/'Squanto Terror' of the 1960s/70s, using a PGM-17 Thor as launcher, the USAF project '922'/'Calsphere' of the mid 1970s and of course the USAF Project '1005'/'ASAT', the missile launched from F-15s. Here is a list of all 5 USAF Project 'ASAT' ALMV (Air-Launched Miniature Vehicle) launches from McDonnell Douglas F-15A Eagles, over the White Sands Missile Range, NM: Date Vehicle Payload/Status - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 01/21/84 F-15A/ASAT ALMV #1 ASAT Test; Successful: missile tested without miniature vehicle; 11/13/84 F-15A/ASAT ALMV #2 ASAT Test; Failed: directed at a star with miniature vehicle; 09/13/85 F-15A/ASAT ALMV #3 ASAT Test; Successful: destroyed NLR satellite P78-1 'Solwind'; 08/22/86 F-15A/ASAT ALMV #4 ASAT Test; Successful: directed at a star; 09/29/86 F-15A/ASAT ALMV #5 ASAT Test; Successful: directed at a star; At least one F-15 ASAT missile is preserved at the USAF Museum, at Wright- Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Tom Petrisko <0007191437@mcimail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 12:59 EST Subject: Spy Satellites The February issue of Popular Mechanics has a cover story on the top-secret reconnaissance satellites that the U.S. uses. They have a really good review of the CORONA program, especially when they compare a photo image from 1970 that had a resolution of 6 ft back then to the SPOT satellite's 15 ft resolution today. They claim our resolution is down to inches today. Incredible when you think how far away they are. Tom ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:19:47 PST Subject: Re: Spy Satellites One of my pet techno peaves. You can always determine the resolution of a camera (or any optical device) by size of diameter of the objective and the wavelength observed. To "read lisence plates" you need about a 300 ft diameter objective even for a low orbit! And no way can any digital or analog image enhancement add data that isn`t there. You can only interpolate. When you go IR you loose reso. Been there, done that. Now for something a little skunky. The printers in airborne systems are very expensive, high dpi thermal printers. The Xerographic type go bad in turbulence, and have problems with pressure changes. All the airborne systems are I`ve seen are mechanical roll-stock types. those using cut paper usually have vac/press systems for transport, and even a pressurized cabin has too high a density altitude for them to work properly. Chuck ------------------------------ From: George Allegrezza 18-Jan-1996 1337 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 13:48:04 EST Subject: Air-launched missiles Jay Miller's B-58 book also describes King Lofus IV, launched by a (surprise) Hustler over the Gulf Missile Range in the late 50s/early 60s. The LV was the Lockheed or Martin competitor to the Douglas Skybolt, which boosted a sensor package several hundred miles into space. Operational systems would have used a warhead and associated guidance in place of the sensor package. King Lofus was a contemporary to, and may have been a competitor with, Bold Orion. The ALBM program was considered very leading edge and was a high priority of the USAF and RAF, to extend the firepower of B-52s, -58s, -70s, and Vulcans. Adding an ASAT capability to the ALBM/Skybolt program would not have been a huge undertaking, and there would have been several launch platforms to choose from. George George Allegrezza | Digital Equipment Corporation | "Why don't they just shut up and Mobile Systems Business | take their ass-whipping like men?" Littleton MA USA | allegrezza@ljsrv2.enet.dec.com | -- Charles Barkley ------------------------------ From: freeman@netcom.com (Jay Reynolds Freeman) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:29:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Spy Satellites The calculation of linear resolution from low Earth orbit isn't quite so pessimistic, I think. Let's consider a 2-meter aperture optical telescope tossed into LEO for a few passes worth of quick look at something important. (I think 2 m is about right for big birds, certainly it is for the Shuttle.) Put perigee at 200 Km (not many revolutions that low), right over the target, and look straight down. At 200 Km, one meter subtends one second of arc in angle (actually, that's for 206 Km), which is why I picked 200 Km -- for numerical convenience. In visual wavelengths, 2 m will resolve about 0.05 arc seconds (astronomical measure of resolution, the threshold for distinguishing as clearly separate, two equally bright point light sources), or about 5 cm. Go to the near ultraviolet, where the atmosphere is still transparent, and if the optics are well figured, the shorter wavelength gets you perhaps 3 cm instead of 5. Some targets of interest are easier than stars -- parallel lines, for example, and so features somewhat below the stellar resolution limit might be detected in some circumstances. Diligent interferometry, achieved by masking the aperture of the telescope, with some numerical work to reconstruct the images, might get close to 1 cm (in near UV, say, for two small apertures separated by 2 m). I am not sure anybody wants to read license plates by near-UV interferometry with a dedicated, high-quality, short-lived 2 m telescope in LEO, but I think it might just barely be possible to do so. -- Jay Freeman ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 19:01:43 -0600 Subject: Re: Spy Satellites > ... Put perigee at 200 Km (not many > revolutions that low), right over the target, and look straight down. > > I am not sure anybody wants to read license plates by near-UV > interferometry with a dedicated, high-quality, short-lived 2 m > telescope in LEO, but I think it might just barely be possible to do > so. > -- Jay Freeman > Imagine they'd have a bit of trouble reading a license plate looking straight down unless the plate has fallen off the vehicle (and landed face up!) :) Seriously, license plates are probably just an example cited because: 1) it's an easily recognized object laypersons can relate to, or b) it makes all the car-driving spies paranoid... Greg Fieser ------------------------------ From: POSTMASTER@RPSPO2.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 20:56:00 PST Subject: Mail failure [002] Mail was received that was addressed to unknown addresses. Mail item was not delivered to: ATTATLMFG/RPSPO2/cfoster - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return-Path: <@attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM:skunk-works@mail.orst.edu> Received: from attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM by attatl.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM id <30FF2585@attatl.AtlantaGA.ATTGIS.COM>; Thu, 18 Jan 96 21:00:53 PST From mail.orst.edu!skunk-works Thu Jan 18 20:40 EST 1996 remote from attatl Received: by attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM; 18 Jan 96 20:40:22 EST Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.attgis.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with UUCP id UAA14539 for rpspo2.atlantaga.attgis.com!cfoster; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:41:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 18 Jan 96 20:40:56 EST Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA19942 for skunk-works-digest-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA19936 for skunk-works-digest-send@mail.orst.edu; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:13:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:13:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601181913.LAA19936@mail.orst.edu> From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #600 Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@mail.orst.edu Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 18 January 1996 Volume 05 : Number 600 In this issue: Monday WINGS and WINGS over the Gulf... Re: Hovering things US Cable Video Alert 18 Jan, TLC Re: Aurora Tuesday WINGS An interesting new book S4 Testor -Reply review skunk-works Re: S4 Testor -Reply - and WINGS for Wed. German MIG29s photos Soviet Lifting-Body Pictures Re: Lion King The Hist. Chan Re: The Hist. Chan 'Flying Jeep' The Hist. Chan Re: The Hist. Chan Aurora Re: The Hist. Chan VTOL stuff, X-Planes, and German rocket engines (was: The Hist. Chan) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BaDge Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 17:47:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Monday WINGS and WINGS over the Gulf... Howdy WINGS fans. Here's the current sched for Mon. (Times: EST) =================== Infotainment Mon Jan-15 6-12mid =================== Wings [DISC 6-7pm ] [Document] "The Backfire Bomber". NATO intelligence uncovers a new Soviet long-range bomber. and... Wings Over the Gulf [DISC 10-11pm ] [Historic] "First Strike". The F-15 Eagle destroys Iraqi missile sites and planes; Nighthawk flies into Baghdad unseen. ======================================================================== regards, ________ BaDge - ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:55:56 MET Subject: Re: Hovering things I found back a few hovering and/or VTOL crafts in the French review "Science et Vie Junior", January 1993 (with a photograph of each): Lockheed XFV (1954) USA should be VTOL in helicopter mode, but never tried Atar (1957) France jet mode Ryan Vertijet X-13 (1957) USA jet mode Coleoptere C 450 (1959) France jet mode Hiller (1954) USA fan mode Aero-Cycle (1955) USA fan mode Bell jet pack (1963) USA rocket mode Rolls Royce craft, name unspecified (1954) UK jet mode Nord 500 (year unspecified) France helicopter or fan mode Piasceki Aircraft Corp. "flying Jeep" (1959) USA fan mode William Horton's craft, name unspecified (1954) USA ? mode Avrocar (in the 1950's) Canada/USA fan mode They quote also: VWF/Fokker X-114 (1971) USA ground effect probably not hovering, precursor of big Russian crafts J. Pharabod - ------------------------------ From: "I am the NRA." Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 09:27:21 EST Subject: US Cable Video Alert 18 Jan, TLC One segment of "Amazing America" is said to be: Spying on the Stealth Seems to be a night time video tour of 'freedom ridge; or like that. Scheduled sometime in the 30 minutes after 10:30 PM EST, US. regards dwp - ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 07:49:34 EST Subject: Re: Aurora Forwarded from the SPACE TECH list "as is"-TWC-: Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:59:35 From: Newton Love Subject: Aurora In article <4cress$2p9@peabody.Colorado.EDU> buckley@refuge.Colorado.EDU (Charles Buckley) writes: >From: buckley@refuge.Colorado.EDU (Charles Buckley) >Subject: Re: Aurora >Date: 8 Jan 1996 15:57:16 GMT >>Forwarded "as is" from a subscriber on the Skunk Works mailing list-TWC-: >>Subject: Re: Aurora >>Author: JNiessen@aol.com at smtp-fhu >>Date: 2/1/1996 7:07 PM >>Dear Charles Buckley, . . . (blah blah blah) . . . >> Would recommend that, for your own edification (and for your future >>reference) you take the time to read my book Skunk Works, The Official >>History. . . . (more blah blah blah) . . . I'm here to make sure >>information presented in Skunk Works is reasonably accurate. >>All the best, Jay Miller > I suggest you take time to send this to Jane's... That is where I got > most of the specifics.. And, yes.. I do believe you are > just trying to sell your book. >Charles Buckley Well Charles, i certainly hope that his book has more truth than Ben Rich's did. i worked the tail end of the 1980's in the de-scennted skunkworks. i was full time on the F-117A, and did occasional "carve-out" stuff for special tasks. When i was there, i hung-out with the young turks, (including a really young turk in his 70s named Ed Lovick, {Lockheed's first (yes first) radar guy}). One of our favorite thing to ask stuffed shirt ROJers (retired on the job ers) was: "Oh! was that before or after Kelly (Johnson) went into the iron lung?" Kelly was a (work-a-holic) great pioneer, and most of his take-credit followers aren't good enough to bring him water. My friends and i joke that if Ben writes a sequel, he will tell how he personally found the missile silos in Cuba. Or maybe he will tell the truth how he really taught Kelly everything he knew about aero. So, You wriite down what your first ammendmment riights let you, and remember that one's person's "facts" are to some of thhe rest of us that were there too, just their delusions of granduer, or over roasted rememberings of a has been hack. BTW, have you seen Dustin Hoffman in "The Little Big Man"? Nudge nudge. Wink wink. 'Nuff said? Know what i mean? -newt St. Louis UNIX Users Group: http://dark.wustl.edu/ World-wide UUGs: http://dark.wustl.edu/~newton/othr_uug.html - ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:08:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Tuesday WINGS On Sun, 14 Jan 1996, BaDge wrote: Howdy WINGS fans. Here's the current sched for Tue. 1/16/96 (Times: EST) =================== Infotainment Tue Jan-16 6-12mid =================== Wings [DISC 6-7pm ] [Document] The "Foxbat" or MIG25 interceptor. enjoy! ;-) regards, ________ BaDge - ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 11:59:56 -0800 Subject: An interesting new book I'd like to pass on a tip to check out an interesting new book. Unconventional Flying Objects: A Scientific Analysis Paul R. Hill Hampton Roads, 1995 ISBN 1-57174-027-9 This book is a technical analysis of UFO characteristics using aerospace scientific and engineering techniques. The hypothesis of the book is that UFO's do NOT violate the laws of physics. This hypothesis is backed up by technical techniques from fluid dynamics and analysis from other branches of physics and engineering, which are used to analyse some older UFO sightings. There is a fair amount of fluid dynamics math in the book as well as other analytical techniques. The math challenged should not worry as the most complex stuff is in the back of the book. Hill attempts to explain his results using simple to understand concepts. Hill was a "well-respected NASA scientist" who took an interest in UFOs in the early 1950s after a personal sighting. He says in the book that he had to suppress his interest because it would put his NACA/NASA career in jeopardy and he also didn't want to give the impression that NASA is even remotely interested in UFOs. The book is unfortunately published posthumously. Bob Wood, Research and Development Manager, McDonnell Douglas Huntington Beach, 1961-1993 wrote the foreword. I purchased the book last night and have only had a chance to skim it briefly. I don't know if I will agree with Hill's conclusions after reading it, but for example, I find his results for flow about some of these objects to be quite interesting! It's worth a look. Larry - ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 14:14:08 EST Subject: S4 Testor -Reply FT is the Fortean Times, a British mag dealing with the paranormal, UFOs, and the weird; i.e., strange deaths, fish falls, and fringe science stuff. The photo is grainy and shows the front half of a "saucer"-shaped or wing shaped craft. An Italian photog allegedly snapped the photo from just outside the fence line at Aviano AB a few weeks ago. The colour is greyish-white. ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: S4 Testor -Reply Author: UFO-L at smtp-fhu Date: 16/01/1996 14:45 Resend of message that my system rejected (for unknown reasons) - - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 08:26:07 +0000 From: Adrian GLEESON To: ufo-l@protree.com Subject: S4 Testor -Reply David, I saw the photo in FT84, very interesting too. I went through my Janes aircraft book and could find nothing similar. I thought at first it was a B2, but the front is wrong. I guess we need sone more photos of this aircraft, preferably on flight! Adrian - - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- To leave this list send your request to: LISTSERV@MB.PROTREE.COM with the first line of your message as: unsubscribe UFO-L If you need help, send private email to: bgarth@protree.com - - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------ From: joeh@towel.engr.sgi.com (Joe Heinrich) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:55:36 -0800 Subject: review skunk-works review skunk-works - - -- Joe "Joe" Heinrich ::Silicon::Graphics::MIPS::MTI:: Flatland: joeh@sgi.com Rotary dial: 415.933.4347 SnailMail:MS/22-535, 1250 Charleston Ave., Mt. View, CA 94043 Henry VI-P2, Act IV, Scene 2: First, kill all the smileys :) >>Windows:95<-Mac:89<-Bravo:78<< - ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 21:16:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: S4 Testor -Reply - and WINGS for Wed. On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Terry Colvin wrote: > FT is the Fortean Times, a British mag dealing with the paranormal, UFOs, and > the weird; i.e., strange deaths, fish falls, and fringe science stuff. The > photo is grainy and shows the front half of a "saucer"-shaped or wing shaped > craft. An Italian photog allegedly snapped the photo from just outside the > fence line at Aviano AB a few weeks ago. The colour is greyish-white. The scan of this photo is on Compuserve, and is not very detailed, but clearly shows a "saucer" shaped craft with a canopy like a jet fighter. Unfortunately, the similarity of the canopy to that of the jet on the runway in the same pix makes me think this is the same type of jet, with a coincidentally weird angle in which it is photographed, causing it to LOOK like a saucer in perspective. The back 1/4 of it (the saucer shape) is hidden-in/blocked-by a quonset-hut type hanger. [Sorry to perpetuate a -type post, but at least it's a debunk.] ;-) Oh, for your Wednesday, WeekDay Wings is featuring the Fulcrum! (1800 EST, DISC. Channel) regards, ________ BaDge - ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 03:54:08 PST Subject: German MIG29s photos People, sorry if you have gotten the other two messages. I am having some rather large network problems lately. I have pics of the MIGS. Any body wants them (3) I`ll attach them to an email from the home site. Chuck - ------------------------------ From: BROWN A <92913938@mmu.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:34:15 GMT Subject: Soviet Lifting-Body Pictures Russian Lifting Body at Monino. - - ------------------------------- I don't know if anyone's seen it yet, but the current (February) issue of "Aeroplane Monthly" contains a photo article on the Russian museaum at Monino. Alongside the usual pictures of the M- 50 "Bounder" and Sukhoi T-4 (T-100), there are a couple of nice shots of the MiG 105-11 lifting body. According to the captions, it made several taxi-trials and self-powered hops in 1976 before a series of drop-tests in 1977-8. These were made from a Tu-95K at 5000m (16,000ft), with the first one occurring on October 27th 1977. The pilot on this occasion was A.G. Fastovets. In total, it made 8 free flights, the last few with the wheeled undercarriage replaced by an unusual four-point skid arrangement. Does anyone have any further info on these flights, or Russian lifting body research in general? Also in the same issue is a good article on the secret RB-47 spy-flights over the USSR in the mid-50s, most made without presidential knowledge. Speaking of B-47s, I recently came across mention of an early air-launched ASAT programme codenamed Project "Bold Orion", which involved missiles launched from B-47s. Does anyone have any idea what these missiles were, and how successful the tests were? Adrian Brown, (92913938@mmu.ac.uk) Dept of Maths and Physics, Manchester Metropolitan University. - ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:42:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Lion King > > What? Is this true? > > On Jan 9, 9:36, Greg Fieser wrote: > > > kind of like the > > stars spelling SEX in "The Lion King"... > > Now understand that I'm not really a Disney fan, primarily due to (1) my age, and (b) I have no children around the housex. Consequently, I have not seen "The Lion King" or "Aladdin" or "Pocahontas" or any of these animated features. What I did see was a newsexpaper article about a certain group of religious fundamentalist fanatics that believe the world is going to Hell In A Handbasket because of widespread sex and promiscuity. These people evidently believe there is a worldwide conspiracy to corrupt the common people by placing sublimenal (sp?) messages in visible places. One sexample was that, if you lay out a highway map (ANY highway map) and follow the outline of certain major highways, you end up with silhouettes of certain parts of the human anatomy. Thus, the Department of Transexportation intentionally designed our freeway infrastructure to corrupt anyone who reads maps(?). These people obviously have too much time (or something) on their hands. Specifically, they claimed Disney was corrupting the youth of America by spelling out SEX in the stars in one scene. I think this scene is the one that appears in all of the "Lion King" ads, where there's a lion character on the right side of the image, and the night sky is filled with stars. Now, if you take any connect-the-dots game and remove all the little sexquence numbers, you can draw whatever your imagination comes up with by connecting random dots. This is what someone did with the stars in this scene. If someone hasn't shown it to you (connected the dotsex) you probably won't see it. Not unlike any of the "real" constellations in the sky - the Big Dipper is just a bunch of stars until someone draws it out for you. Disney may have pulled/changed the ads just to avoid any more negative publicity, so you may not be able to find an example. The B-2 outlines I remembered were much more obvious than the Disexney consextellations... Hope this brightened your day, Greg PS - Gianluca Gambotto - this is a revisexd version of my post to you... - ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:56:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: The Hist. Chan Serendipitously, the Hist. channel is airing a VTOL program under the "First Flights" series which profiled, among others, that flying jeep that J. Pharabod posted about earlier this week. This 'jeep' is just two horiz. turbines, with a small seat to the middle left, where the hapless pilot (meat) sits. Yikes. ;-) It aired one showing at 1200-1300 EST, and should repeat later this PM. I don't know the time for the repeat, but usually in 6-8 hour intervals. I'll post back if I find it. Also cool was the British Kestral, a very agile VTOL craft, and the X-13, that gooney bird tail sitter thing where the pilot has to land lying on his back, looking over his shoulder, and one version has the craft hanging from a tight wire via a nose hook. Wonder if they checked the well water these designers were drinking?? regards, ________ BaDge - ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:08:13 PST Subject: Re: The Hist. Chan I`m going to see if Bell will give me some pics and data on the Schweizer 1-26 based VTOL jet they built. Now THATS what I call a modification! Chuck - ------------------------------ From: "I am the NRA." Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 14:04:22 EST Subject: 'Flying Jeep' For those who have never met one... >This 'jeep' is just two horiz. turbines, The buzzword at the time (still is) was 'ducted fan'. Occaisionally seen as helo tail rotor and as propulsion fan (and lifters) on air cushion vehicle. My recollection is that the power plant was piston engine. >with a small seat to the middle left, where the hapless pilot (meat) sits. Plus or minus controlability, no worse than any other. Direction was by vertical 'flaps' mounted in air flow, one left-right one fore-aft, in each duct. (Somewhere, i may have the plastic model i built at the time... 8)>>) ================= Footnote to the jet pack discusion, First items were mid 50s. The fuel cycle is essentially the Walther 'cold' cycle as used on the DFS194 (Me163 recursor). regards dwp - ------------------------------ From: "Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund" Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 21:51:53 +0100 Subject: The Hist. Chan >>>>> "BaDge" == BaDge writes: BaDge> Also cool was the British Kestral, a very agile VTOL craft, BaDge> and the X-13, that gooney bird tail sitter thing where the BaDge> pilot has to land lying on his back, looking over his BaDge> shoulder, and one version has the craft hanging from a BaDge> tight wire via a nose hook. Wonder if they checked the BaDge> well water these designers were drinking?? It was possible to rotate the pilot seat at landing in the Vertijet ie as long as you had a nice and dust-free area to land on it was pretty easy to land the damn thing. The big problem was the fact that you only had fuel for 1 min flight onboard... The guy landing it on the Pentagon lawn was real worried because of that because he only had 20s fuel reserves at arrival... - ------------------------------ From: freeman@netcom.com (Jay Reynolds Freeman) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:13:02 -0800 Subject: Re: The Hist. Chan > THATS what I call a modification No doubt "Aurora" is a reworked 2-32. Hmn. _A_wfully _U_nlikely _R_ework _O_f _R_inkydink _A_ircraft... - ------------------------------ From: an387545@anon.penet.fi Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:51:37 UTC Subject: Aurora Subject: Aurora - send to skunk-works@mail.orst. I've been waiting a LONG time to get this posted. ;) I hope you all like it. This information was gathered verbally from anonymous military sources. Aurora: A partial description and conjectures have been leaked (rumored) about the latest recon plane code named Aurora. The description and info available is listed below: 1. Frisbee shaped (elongated) looks like a Frisbee from the front view! almost like a row boat upside down. (not as high) the cockpit is built in the body (no extrusions). It has been referred to as the Frisbee. From the side it looks like an elongated Frisbee. 2. High altitude (no kidding). well over 100,000 ft. not sure about the fuel.. NOT kerosene. you think it would be liquid o2 or nitrogen. ?? they didn't do all that testing on the x15 for nothing! 3. Stealthy (no kidding). shape . This doesn't reflect the radar signal like the 117. It absorbs. no flat surface! no rudder! there may have been a sighting near Scotland. (north sea oil rigs) it was refueling. this does look like a 'UFO'. 4. Carbon composite fiber (core) 5. New engine technology. RAM or SCRAM (similar). vary high atmosphere. 6. also sighted over the American Desert & NW Pacific ocean while refueling. enjoy.. Your friendly skunk. oh, this info is almost a year old! - - --****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--***ATTENTION*** Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED. Please, report inappropriate use to abuse@anon.penet.fi For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to help@anon.penet.fi If you have any problems, address them to admin@anon.penet.fi - ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 11:35:26 MET Subject: Re: The Hist. Chan In the small list of "hovering things" which I posted to skunk-works on last Monday, 14:55:56 MET, I wrongly included William Horton's craft (that's my mistake, which comes from the fact that "Science et Vie Junior" included the photograph of this craft amongst photographs of hovering crafts). This craft flew during 20 minutes on September 29, 1954. From the photograph and from the few comments, I would say that it was a variable geometry wing. According to the author of the article, it was a "remarkable machine combining several audacious solutions". Has anybody more info ? (Well, this does not look very skunky, but maybe some of these solutions have been later used in "black" projects ?). J. Pharabod - ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:59:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: VTOL stuff, X-Planes, and German rocket engines (was: The Hist. Chan) BaDge wrote: >Also cool was the British Kestral, a very agile VTOL craft, and the X-13, >that gooney bird tail sitter thing where the pilot has to land lying on >his back, looking over his shoulder, and one version has the craft >hanging from a tight wire via a nose hook. Wonder if they checked the >well water these designers were drinking?? The Hawker Siddely Kestrel evolved into the BAe Harrier, which I consider the most successful VTOL design, yet. The Ryan X-13 worked pretty good, apart from the difficulties of the tail-sitting landing procedure. Even though the pilot did not have to lay on his back, because the cockpit seat rotated a little bit forward, the pilot had to use mirrors and 'feeling' to land the aircraft by hooking it's nose hook onto a rope. The program was pretty successful, though the proposed fighter version never left the drawing board. Both aircraft are preserved and one (USAF FY-Serial '54-1619') is at the San Diego Aerospace Museum, San Diego, CA (on loan from the Smithsonian) and the other (FY-Serial '54-1620') is at the USAF Museum in Dayton, OH. "I am the NRA." wrote: >The buzzword at the time (still is) was 'ducted fan'. Occaisionally >seen as helo tail rotor and as propulsion fan (and lifters) on >air cushion vehicle. My recollection is that the power plant >was piston engine. The two Piasecki Model 59K, designated VZ-8PH and nicknamed 'Airjeep', 'Flying Jeep', US Army serials '58-5510' and '58-5511', used two ducted fans, powered by a French Turbomeca Artouste IIB turbine. First flight was made on December 10, 1958. This vehicle is sometimes mixed up with the Ryan Model 164, XV-8A 'Fleep', a rogallo-type flexible wing research vehicle, powered by a 200 hp. Continental pusher engine. One was built (US Army serial '63-13003') and a second one (US Army serial '63-1304') was canceled. >Footnote to the jet pack discusion, First items were mid 50s. The >fuel cycle is essentially the Walther 'cold' cycle as used on the >DFS194 (Me163 recursor). The first liquid-fueled rocket-powered aircraft, the Heinkel He 176, used a 'cold cycle' Walter-rocket engine, the R I-203. From that, the series-produced Walter-Raketenstarthilfe HWK 109-500, which also utilized the 'cold cycle', was developed. The 109-501 and 109-503 JATO rockets burned H2O2, Kerosine and Hydrazine (in a 'hot cycle'). The 'cold cycle' engine used 80%-solution 'T-Stoff' (H2O2, hydrogen peroxide) mixed with 'Z-Stoff' as a catalyst, usually Na (Natrium/sodium) or Ca (Kalzium/calcium), which created a lot of pretty hot steam. The DFS 194 (later also Me 194) and the Me 163 A, prototypes of the 'Komet' (Comet), both used HWK R II/203b 'cold cycle' rocket engines, while most of the series Me 163 Bs used Walter 109-509 'hot cycle' rockets, which burned very volatile and corrosive 'C-Stoff' (Hydrazine-Hydrat (German spelling)) as catalyst with the 'T-Stoff' (H2O2). Other aircraft equipped with the 109-509 were the point-defense fighter Bachem Ba 349 'Natter' (Adder/Viper), the high-altitude reconnaissance test aircraft DFS 228 (one of three prototypes was displayed after the war in Britain, registered 'D-IBFQ'), and the DFS 346 supersonic test aircraft (a mix between a Bell X-1 and a Bell X-2) which was tested in the Soviet Union and launched in 1947 from one of the original B-29s, interned by the Soviets in 1945. * Prof. Hellmuth Walter was a designer of rocket engines, and worked at the DVL in Kiel Germany; * DVL = Deutsche Versuchsanstalt fuer Luftfahrt (German Test Institute for Aviation); * DFS = Deutsche Forschungsanstalt fuer Segelflug (German Research Institute for Gliding); * Raketenstarthilfe = Rocket Starting Help (in USA usually JATO or RATO = Jet- or Rocket-Assisted-Take-Off); * HWK = Hellmuth Walter, Kiel - as a company name; * 109-50x = 109 was the equipment-number for jet/rocket engines, assigned by the RLM. 500, 501, 503, 509 = type designation numbers. While originally numbered chronologically/sequentially, later the end-digit was used to represent the manufacturer, were '9' was assigned to Walter/HWK; * RLM = Reichs Luftfahrt Ministerium (Aviation Ministry of the Third Reich) Chuck wrote: >I`m going to see if Bell will give me some pics and data on the >Schweizer 1-26 based VTOL jet they built. Now THATS what I call >a modification! Here is some info from Jay Miller's X-Plane book (of which a third, extended edition should be available soon). I also made my X-Planes article available on my home page, because its publication in the Polish magazine has been delayed indefinitely, due to financial problems. The Bell Model 65, ATV (Air Test Vehicle), used the fuselage of a Schweizer SGS-1-26 glider, a Cessna 170 wing, as well as Bell Model 47 landing skids and two Fairchild J44 jet engines. The engines were mounted at the center of gravity of the aircraft, under the wing and behind the cockpit, one on each side. They could be tilted downwards and backwards, and an additional 'Palouste' turbine provided thrust for pitch and roll control. Only one aircraft was built, registered 'N1105V', which first made tethered hover tests, and flew non-tethered in the vertical mode, in early 1954. It was later modified with a landing gear from a Cessna and an additional fin under the T-empennage and flew for the first time (conventionally) during April of 1955. The program was terminated in Spring of 1955, after some partial transitions had been accomplished. The results of the test flights were used in the Bell X-14 project, one of the longest lasting X-planes ever. The X-14 was also built using parts from other aircraft (as were many other X-Planes too, like the X-18, X-21As, and X-29As, to name but a few) -- the wings came from a Beechcraft Bonanza, the empennage from a Beechcraft T-34 Mentor, and the engines were also borrowed. - - -- Andreas [not going to the F-117 lecture at Dayton -- because of the expected f*ing (freezing, that is) rain.] :( - - --- - --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - - --- - --- - ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #600 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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