From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #605 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Wednesday, 24 January 1996 Volume 05 : Number 605 In this issue: KH-xx type images "Aurora" over the UK? Re: KH-11 resolution/Hubble Re: KH-11 mirrors Re: Wire EDM F117-a squadron names... Re: KH-11 resolution Re: KH-11 resolution SR-71 ANS re: "Aurora" over the UK? re: KH-xx type images Re: "Aurora" over the UK? re: WeekDay WINGS - Monday... Re: WeekDay WINGS - Monday... Re: "Aurora" over the UK? Re: "Aurora" over the UK? Re: "Aurora" over the UK? re: "Aurora" over the UK? Pictures of Aurora.? :)= Re: SW-D V5 #603 Re: KH-11 resolution See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kerry@Hungerford.chch.cri.nz (Kerry Ferrand) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 00:39:25 -1200 Subject: KH-xx type images >Have there been any other released or leaked KH-XX photos? The Russina >shipyard picture is one of the few which I'm familiar with... (I also >recall seeing a picture of a Soviet launch facility - Tyuratam? (horribly >incorrect spelling, I know...)) Sometime in the mid 1980s some images of the prototype or preproduction MiG-29 and Su-27 on the tarmac of Zhukovsky air base ("Ramenskoye") were leaked out via an internal USAF magazine..these (pretty awful) images are reproduced in Bill Gunston's "Warplanes Of The Future" (ISBN 0-340-37299-0 ,1985) and probably plenty of other publications at the time. Alot of the damage assesment sketches shown to journalists at briefings during Desert Storm seemed to be closely based on satellite images also. K ------------------------------ From: BROWN A <92913938@mmu.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:29:50 GMT Subject: "Aurora" over the UK? Here's a puzzle for you. I've recently received a report from a very reliable witness (my mum) of a strange happenning. My folks live on the edge of a small town in Derbyshire, not far from a large school which the RAF anf USAF use as a practice target and nav check. As a result, they are used to seeing and hearing all kinds of military aircraft. Over the years, the following types have been regular low-level visitors; Vulcan Phantom Gnat Hawk Tornado Harrier A-10 F-111 F-15 Tucano plus the occasional F-117 (from before their first "official" visit to the UK) They are also close to the East Midlands airport, and so they also get airliners going over at fairly low level (2-5000ft). As a result, my mum has learned to identify many of the types by sound alone. recently, however, she heard one late-night flight which left her completely baffled. On Saturday Jan. 13th, at about 1.30am, she was lying in bed when she heard an aircraft go over. There was no significant background noise, so she heard it pretty well, and was able to give me a good description. It sounded about as loud as an airliner at fairly low level, i.e. much quieter than a fast military jet, but it passed over about as quickly as a Tornado at 250ft and 450kts! Also, she said that she had never heard an engine note like it before. She's never read any of the reports of engine notes associated with "Aurora" sightings, but her description was of a "rumbling whine". When I said "Kinda like someone blowing across the top of a big bottle" she agreed. Now, she's heard all kinds of engines (we're both regulars at airshows), and has seen F-117s in flight, and it didn't match anything she's come across before. Could this have been our mysterious friend? Did anyone else in the UK hear anything similar at about that time? Its direction of flight was generally W-E, but could have been NW-SE or even SW-NE. If anyone did hear anything, I'd love to hear from them. Adrian Brown. ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 03:47:25 PST Subject: Re: KH-11 resolution/Hubble No connection at all. The Hubble is a different design in that it much more complex, and suseptible to vibration. The Kilo Hotels are heavily damped. Also, the Hubble is HUGE. As an example of how vibration sensitive Hubble is, after the repair mission it took about 2 weeks for the spacecraft to stop "ringing" after be mucked with. Just look at the launch vehicles, work the Pi ratios backwards, and you can get a feel for the difference in mass. (Gosh, I love rocket science!) Chuck ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 03:51:34 PST Subject: Re: KH-11 mirrors Add to the debacle that Eastman Kodak had a good one as a back-up. This is NASA at its finest. Chuck ------------------------------ From: "Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 13:30:58 +0100 Subject: Re: Wire EDM Yes, electric discharge wire cutting machines is very handy. I did some practice in a shop such as the one described. They used this machine for tool manufacturing, mostly steel plate presses anvils (is it the right term ??) for example. ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:39:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: F117-a squadron names... Kind of a strange question, which many will recognize where I'm going with it, but I'm wondering if anyone on the list knows the origin of the nickname of the 4452nd Test Squadron (Q-Unit)? Don't wanna start a big thread on this, so don't be alarmed. ;-) regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: "J. Pharabod" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 15:13:03 MET Subject: Re: KH-11 resolution This discussion about the KH-11 reminds me of a question asked by a Belgian physicist I happen to know, Leon Brenig. There have been a lot of reports of big, quasi-triangular objects slowly flying or hovering over Belgium, southern England and North-East of the USA (I don't mean that all these reports are correct, maybe 90% are confusions with ordinary planes, but there is a substantial number of well documented and still unexplained sightings). Brenig asks: since there are spy satellites photographying all what happens on this planet, have the sequences corresponding (time and location) with these sightings been analysed ? If yes, what are the results ? If no, could it be that: 1) No photographs have been made, because time and location never corresponded: 1.1) insufficient covering of the planet, i.e. not enough satellites to see everything everywhere, 1.2) these satellites fly only over potential enemies (ex-USSR, China, some Middle-East countries, ...), not over densely populated Western areas. 2) These sophisticated KH-11 and the like satellites are blinded by human lights (buildings, cars, street lights etc...). Most of these sightings occurred indeed during night. If this is the case, it would be impossible to spy on densely populated areas during night. 3) The governments/military/intelligence are definitely not interested in that, for whatever reason (probably because they know perfectly well what it is...). J. Pharabod ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:53:13 -0600 Subject: Re: KH-11 resolution > From: "R. Lee Hawkins" > > Nope, no way. You wouldn't want a mirror with that much spherical > aberation for *any* reason. And grinding "the same way the rest of > Iteks mirrors were ground" wouldn't do it either. In fact, ITEK didn't > even grind the Hubble mirror. Perkin-Elmer (now Hughes-Danbury) did it. > And it was worse than most amateur mirrors that are tested with a > Foucault tester. In fact, they used a Foucault test on the Hubble > mirror (along with a third test that I forget) and both of those showed > the spherical aberation, but were ignored, since it was felt that the > reflective null test was much more accurate. > I'd like to sustantiate these statements. I worked for a division of Hughes (i.e. Huggies) during this time, and the mirrors were definitely made "perfectly wrong" by PE, which was then bought by HD. By "perfectly wrong", I mean to say that the mirror was as nearly perfectly ground as possible, it was just perfectly ground to the wrong shape... Greg Fieser "since I'm self-employed, the above views do represent those of my employer..." ------------------------------ From: David Lednicer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:33:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: SR-71 ANS Marta Bohn-Meyer, one of the two NASA backseaters (the other is her husband), told me a story about the ANS units. She said that you have to enter the current date, during the preflight, to get the star positions set up right. On one flight, she had a hell of a time with the airplane getting off course. After they landed, someone checked, and yes, the wrong date had been entered into the ANS before the flight! Mary can no doubt add plenty more to this story. BTW - Mary, I looked for you at AIAA Reno and couldn't find you - are you off the TC? - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 8:37:55  Subject: re: "Aurora" over the UK? As I remember it (except as drones and a few test aircraft, there arent't any more F-4s in service over here, so it's been a while since I've heard one), a Phantom with the Boundary Layer Control operating sounds very much like air being blown over a bottle. If the power settings were fairly low, the BLC would even drown out the engines themselves. This is especially noticeable on approach or in low speed flight. Is it possible that German or other Phantoms may have been in the area that night practicing something? Art Hanley My employer has nothing to do with anything in this message [except to make me write this] ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 09:15:55 PST Subject: re: KH-xx type images Comments by : Art Hanley@IM@SPK Date : Wednesday, January 24, 1996 9:19:01 Forwarded to : internet[skunk-works@mail.orst.edu] Comments: I've Got to learn to check the spelling of addresses more closely... -------------------------- [Original Message] ------------------------- To : smtp@SPKSYS12@Servers[kerry@Hungerford.chch.cri.nz] Cc : internet[skunk-wirks@mail.orst.edu] From : Art Hanley@IM@SPK Subject : re: KH-xx type images Date : Wednesday, January 24, 1996 at 9:07:55 am PST - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The first public picture of the TU-160 was very grainy and showed up in Av Week and other international aviation pubs. It was speculated that this may have been a sattelite photo that was deliberately degraded for release, but I don't think it was ever confirmed. It appears the Blackjack was deliberately posed by the Soviets for photography from above because of the time and place it was parked and because it was deliberately parked next and parallel to a TU-144, the dimensions of which were known with certainty. This would permit an observer to make accurate determinations of length, wingspan, etc. The first confirmed leak of recon. satelitte pictures appeared in Jane's Defense Week. They were of a Soviet naval shipyard where their aircraft carriers were under construction. The pictures were very clear. They were leaked by an analyst who said he didn't feel the Soviet naval threat was being taken seriously enough. If I remember right it turned out he was the son of the famous naval historian Samuel Morrison. He went to jail. Art Hanley Honest! These are only My opinions! Don't even Think that they represent whatever it is my employers may think about whatever it may be that I've written this time ------------------------------ From: Greg Fieser Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:12:33 -0600 Subject: Re: "Aurora" over the UK? > Adrian Brown writes: > > her description was of a "rumbling whine". When I said "Kinda like > someone blowing across the top of a big bottle" she agreed. Not very skunky (but still a Lockheed bird), have you ever heard an S-3 Viking on approach? As the crew cycles the throttles, alternatively adding then reducing power settings, they sound very much like your description, so much so their nickname is "Hoover" (after the vacuum cleaner mfgr.). However, the speed you estimated (250-450 kts) would probably rule this one out... Greg Fieser "since I'm self-employed. the above views do represent those of my employer..." ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 9:41:20  Subject: re: WeekDay WINGS - Monday... A note on "21st Century Jet". It's a five week series. I can't remember any other airliner getting that much coverage! Art Hanley Not only do my employers not endorse the views above, they aren't even aware of them. ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:48:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: WeekDay WINGS - Monday... > A note on "21st Century Jet". It's a five week series. I can't remember any > other airliner getting that much coverage! Well, the fact it was produced by the Seattle PBS station might have something to do with it... :) Not that i'm complaining, its a great series! ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:42:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "Aurora" over the UK? A B-2, probably. My house is under the pattern for Plant 42 and I hear them all, because they come over from Edwards to shoot touch and goes. The B-2 is quiet, but fast. It wasn't the B-1 or the SR or the U-2; all three of those are really noisy devils. On consideration, it might have been a KC-135R, which also has a high-bypass-ratio engine and a low-frequency component, like the B-2. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, BROWN A wrote: > Here's a puzzle for you. I've recently received a report from a > very reliable witness (my mum) of a strange happenning. > My folks live on the edge of a small town in Derbyshire, not far > from a large school which the RAF anf USAF use as a practice target > and nav check. As a result, they are used to seeing and hearing all > kinds of military aircraft. Over the years, the following types have > been regular low-level visitors; > Vulcan > Phantom > Gnat > Hawk > Tornado > Harrier > A-10 > F-111 > F-15 > Tucano > plus the occasional F-117 (from before their first "official" > visit to the UK) > They are also close to the East Midlands airport, and so they > also get airliners going over at fairly low level (2-5000ft). As a > result, my mum has learned to identify many of the types by sound > alone. recently, however, she heard one late-night flight which left > her completely baffled. > On Saturday Jan. 13th, at about 1.30am, she was lying in bed when > she heard an aircraft go over. There was no significant background > noise, so she heard it pretty well, and was able to give me a good > description. > It sounded about as loud as an airliner at fairly low level, i.e. > much quieter than a fast military jet, but it passed over about as > quickly as a Tornado at 250ft and 450kts! Also, she said that she had > never heard an engine note like it before. She's never read any of > the reports of engine notes associated with "Aurora" sightings, but > her description was of a "rumbling whine". When I said "Kinda like > someone blowing across the top of a big bottle" she agreed. Now, > she's heard all kinds of engines (we're both regulars at airshows), > and has seen F-117s in flight, and it didn't match anything she's > come across before. Could this have been our mysterious friend? > Did anyone else in the UK hear anything similar at about that > time? Its direction of flight was generally W-E, but could have been > NW-SE or even SW-NE. If anyone did hear anything, I'd love to hear > from them. > > Adrian Brown. ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:10:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "Aurora" over the UK? On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Mary Shafer wrote: > A B-2, probably. My house is under the pattern for Plant 42 and I hear > them all, because they come over from Edwards to shoot touch and goes. > The B-2 is quiet, but fast. Ha, did you pick that House at such a location, or was it just luck. ;-) BTW, if you guys haven't visited Mary's home page at: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html ...it's got a couple of engrossing tales of her Sim training, and some flights she took part in recently (?). Also a nice pic of her about to board a jet of some kind, grinning at the camera. Check it out. regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:37:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "Aurora" over the UK? That jet's an F-4, and the house location was pretty much an accident, although all of Lancaster is near enough to the pattern to hear the airplanes. I hope to add accounts of my F-18 and F-16 VISTA flights by the end of March, assuming that my inner ear doesn't betray me again. I'm glad that you liked it--I've been asked to give the "How to Instrument a Research Airplane" one as a paper at the Society of Flight Test Engineers' yearly meeting in November (in Fort Worth this year). Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, BaDge wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Mary Shafer wrote: > > > A B-2, probably. My house is under the pattern for Plant 42 and I hear > > them all, because they come over from Edwards to shoot touch and goes. > > The B-2 is quiet, but fast. > > Ha, did you pick that House at such a location, or was it just luck. ;-) > > BTW, if you guys haven't visited Mary's home page at: > > http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html > > ...it's got a couple of engrossing tales of her Sim training, and some > flights she took part in recently (?). > > Also a nice pic of her about to board a jet of some kind, grinning at the > camera. Check it out. > > regards, > ________ > BaDge > > > > ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:43:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: re: "Aurora" over the UK? There are still F-4s operatonal in the US. There's a squadron of the Idaho ANG flying RF-4s (Cs, I think) and they may have been deploying to Bosnia. NOt that I've heard that they would, but I'm not really likely to, either. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 24 Jan 1996 ahanley@usace.mil wrote: > As I remember it (except as drones and a few test aircraft, there arent't any > more F-4s in service over here, so it's been a while since I've heard one), a > Phantom with the Boundary Layer Control operating sounds very much like air > being blown over a bottle. If the power settings were fairly low, the BLC > would even drown out the engines themselves. This is especially noticeable on > approach or in low speed flight. Is it possible that German or other Phantoms > may have been in the area that night practicing something? > > > > > > Art Hanley > > My employer has nothing to do > with anything in this message > [except to make me write this] ------------------------------ From: Robb Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:51:05 Subject: Pictures of Aurora.? :)= In this months 'Encounters' ( UK paranormal magazine ) there is a photo of two F1-11 jets, a KC 135 Stato tanker and a triangular shaped craft which looks like it is attatched to the KC 135 re-fueling. The photo was taken on Wednesday 27th September, 1995 at 6:45pm in Sandymouth, Bude (I don't know where that is and I live in England :) by a guy who was on vacation. The photo was taken to RAF Cosford where the F1-11's were identified but the triangular craft could not be recognised, they did say it was not a stealth bomber ( which when you look at the photo is _very_ obvious. This thing is a proper triangle with no pointy bits sticking out, other than the three corners of course :) I wondered if anyone else had seen the photo ( or any other of the possible Aurora ) and had any opinions on it. If I can find a scanner I'll scan the picture and FTP it somewhere. Audi. Rob. ~~~ MancheXter '96 _The X-Files Convention_ ------------------------ http://www.keele.ac.uk/socs/ks/ksi12/drama/graildir/xfconv.html AD, BB - --- X X The Truth Is Out There... X X X T.N.O. -- * * * !! * * !! * " Gonna Live Forever. " * //\\ * Chicago Bulls #1 NBA * // \\ * " They've come to save us, *// \\* the space invaders " * * '' '' '' ' ' EI 'AANIIGOO 'AHOOT'E ------------------------------ From: Joe Sylvester Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 18:29:52 -0600 Subject: Re: SW-D V5 #603 Re: KH-11 resolution At 21:40 1/23/96 -0800, Wei-Jen Su wrote: > > > > The last Soviet Union president (Mijael Gorvachov) said in front >of western press: > "We both know (USA and URSS) that both of our satellites can see >the number of plates of the cars..." > > Well we all know that salesmen, mangers, and politicians tend to ..aahm..exagerate, to put it mildly. Meaning they lie. - ----------------------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed above are NOT Those of Texas Instruments They are mine alone Joe Sylvester DON'T TREAD ON ME ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #605 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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