From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #617 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Friday, 9 February 1996 Volume 05 : Number 617 In this issue: Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf Re: (Fwd) Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf Re: Aplogies to Skunk Works dev Re: (Fwd) Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf New Bosnia Air Action of 2/9/96 Weekend WINGS Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf Re: News about Groom Lake Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf SW/NASA? RE: Inverted Landings Returned mail: User unknown See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 02:55:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf Paul Mangan wrote the following: >I must have missed the beginning of this thread. My son was a >CAPS officer on an AWACS. His duties included SCUD hunting and >Aircraft hunting. He had 4 F15E's assigned to him. F-15Es did not fly any CAP (Combat Air Patrol) missions, that was the duty of F-15Cs and F-15Ds, and F-15Es did not have any air-to-air kills (besides a single, hovering Hughes 500 helicopter, struck by a GBU-10 laser-guided bomb, released by Capt. Richard T. Bennett (pilot) and Capt. Daniel B. Bakke (WSO), from F-15E, serial '89-0487', while on "Scud Patrol" near Al Quain. >They were >staggered overlap for refueling. 2 would refuel while 2 were on >patrol. 4 would be on patrol during a portion of the time. When >SCUDS were spotted they would go for a kill immediately. The >F15E's were out of Rome, NY. All F-15E in the theater were either from the 335th TFS (Tactical Fighter Squadron) or 336th TFW, both belonging to the 4th TFW (Tactical Fighter Wing), based at Seymour Johnson AFB, NC, tailcode 'SJ'. F-15Cs and F-15Ds were from the 27th TFS and 71st TFS, both 1st TFW, based at Langley AFB, VA, tailcode 'FF', 58th TFW of the 33rd TFW, based at Eglin AFB, FL, tailcode 'EG', all belonging to TAC (Tactical Air Command), plus 3 units from USAFE (United States Air Forces (in) Europe), the 53rd TFS and 525th TFS, both 36th TFW, based at Bitburg AB, Germany, tailcode 'BT', and the 32nd TFS, 32nd TFG (Tactical Fighter Group), based at Soesterberg AB, Netherlands, tailcode 'CR'. I haven't heard of Rome AFB, NY, even so I believe you mean Griffis AFB, NY, north east of Rome, NY, where the B-52Gs of the 668th BS (Bombardment Squadron) and the KC-135Rs of the 41st ARS (Air Refueling Squadron), both 416th BW (Bombardment Wing), originally came from, which saw service during Operations Desert Shield/Desert Storm. >Yes, they did have success. Yes, >they were fully prepared for air to air and air to ground attacks. >I won't repeat the full story that I have given before on this >group but I am sure many of you read about him in AV Leak. Briefly >while 2 F15E's were being refueled my son spotted 7 aircraft >taking off from a base north of Bagdad and sent our 2 remaining >F15E's after them. They engaged and confirmed 4 kills, 2 aparent >crashes inside Iran and 1 probable crash landing at an Iranian >air base. I don't remember reading about this incident in particular, but from my sources, I belive the incident you are referring to happened on January 27, 1991, south of Baghdad, Iraq. It involved Capt. Jay T. Denney, flying F-15C-38-MC, serial '84-0025', of the 53rd TFS, 36th TFW, from Bitburg AB, Germany, tailcode 'BT', who shot down two MiG-23, both with AIM-9M Sidewinders, and Capt. Benjamin D. Powell, flying F-15C-38-MC, serial '84-0027', from the same unit, who shot down a MiG-23 and a Mirage F1EQ, using AIM-7M Sparrows. Those F-15Cs were flying daylight CAP at around 30,000 ft., when they were vectored by an E-3 AWACS to two boogies, flying at 5,000 ft. During the engagement with those two MiG-23 (first two AIM-7s missed), Powell spotted two other aircraft, the Mirage F1EQ and the third MiG-23, which he pursued. I don't know about any further aircraft being involved. The F-15Cs were based at Al Kharj, south of Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia, where also the F-15Es of the 4th TFW(P) (Tactical Fighter Wing, Provisional) were based. >Most of the details were either on TV or in the Av Leak write up. >The SCUD details were not given by my son other than to say "yes >but I can't talk about it." I have been able to pick them up from >WINGS and a video tape I purchased. U-2Rs, E-8As, RC-135s, RF-4Cs, F-14A/TARPS, Mirage F1CR and Tornado GR.1As and most successfull SOF (Special Operations Forces) were used to find SCUDs and/or paint them with lasers for F-15Es, F-111Fs, F-117As, Tornado GR.1s and other aircraft, which attacked SCUD launchers, mainly with laser-guided bombs. The success of those 'SCUD Hunting' operations (similar to the MIM-104 Patriot SCUD-attacks) was not as convincing as the USAF and the media wanted the public to believe. But this is another story. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 03:27:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Art Hanley wrote: > We did have success against Scuds. We did find a > bunch of them, and when we found them, we killed them. We had > notable success in determining Scud launch sites soon after launch > and when we had assets in range, we reduced them to their component > parts. What has been coming out since the war is that we had a very > tough time locating the mobile launcers (as opposed to missile > storage sites) before we saw them launch or getting > there in time if we didn't already had assets airborne and in range. I wonder if the Scuds mobil launches hit are not dummies one... I haven't see any pictures of a destroy Scud mobil launch that suppose to take it after the conflict by the ground troop of coalition force. May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mail: wsu02@barney.poly.edu ------------------------------ From: tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com (Tom Robison) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:54:04 +0500 Subject: Re: Aplogies to Skunk Works dev >> >Sorry, I'm not usually this grumpy... actually I am...its just that the >> >three-letter U-word really gets to me. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have >> >to go back to my home on the planet Zarquon. >> > >> >--Brett >> >> Pick us up some hamburgers on your way back, ok? Tom > >For human or Grey metabolism and with or without the mayo? >--Brett Lewttuce and mayo, but please, no green cheese. Tom in Indiana tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com or TCRobi0648@aol.com ' (oo) - -------oOOO-()-OOOo-------- ------------------------------ From: tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com (Tom Robison) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:09:08 +0500 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf >On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Art Hanley wrote: > >> We did have success against Scuds. We did find a >> bunch of them, and when we found them, we killed them. We had >> notable success in determining Scud launch sites soon after launch >> and when we had assets in range, we reduced them to their component >> parts. What has been coming out since the war is that we had a very >> tough time locating the mobile launcers (as opposed to missile >> storage sites) before we saw them launch or getting >> there in time if we didn't already had assets airborne and in range. then Su Wei-Jen wrote: > > I wonder if the Scuds mobil launches hit are not dummies one... I >haven't see any pictures of a destroy Scud mobil launch that suppose to >take it after the conflict by the ground troop of coalition force. The Gulf War fifth anniversary program on A&E (or was it Discovery?) dwelled on the Scud hunt, and left me with the impression that we actaully destroyed very few scuds on the ground. The videos shown at the time, purported to be smart bombs striking scuds on trailers, were alleged by the A&E reporter to be bombs striking fuel trailers or water trailers. Does anyone know how many scuds the USAF claims to have destroyed on the ground? BTW, is this a skunky subject? Tom in Indiana tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com or TCRobi0648@aol.com ' (oo) - -------oOOO-()-OOOo-------- ------------------------------ From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:18:12 PST Subject: New Bosnia Air Action of 2/9/96 Our Friday humor patrol has been slacking off a bit lately. The following isn't much, but it is kind of cute, from Joyce Murdoch in Washington, D.C. CLINTON DEPLOYS VOWELS TO BOSNIA -- Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients WASHINGTON -- Before an emergency joint session of Congress yesterday, President Clinton announced U.S. plans to deploy over 75,000 vowels to the war-torn region of Bosnia. The deployment, the largest of its kind in American history, will provide the region with the critically needed letters A, E, I, O and U, and is hoped to render countless Bosnian names more pronounceable. "For six years, we have stood by while names like Ygrjvslhv and Tzlynhr and Glrm have been horribly butchered by millions around the world," Clinton said. "Today, the United States must finally stand up and say, 'Enough.' It is time the people of Bosnia finally had some vowels in their incomprehensible words. The U.S. is proud to lead the crusade in this noble endeavor." The deployment, dubbed Operation Vowel Movement by the State Department, is set for early next week, with the Adriatic port cities of Sjlbvdnzv and Grzny slated to be the first recipients. Two C-130 transport planes, each carrying over 500 24-count boxes of E's, will fly from Andrews Air Force Base across the Atlantic and air-drop the letters over the cities. Citizens of Grzny and Sjlbvdnzv eagerly await the arrival of the vowels. "My God, I do not think we can last another day," Trszg Grzdnjkln, 44, said. "I have six children and none of them has a name that is understandable to me or to anyone else. Mr. Clinton, please send my poor, wretched family just one 'E.' Please." Said Sjlbvdnzv resident Grg Hmphrs, 67: "With just a few key letters, I could be George Humphries. This is my dream." The airdrop represents the largest deployment of any letter to a foreign country since 1984. During the summer of that year, the U.S. shipped 92,000 consonants to Ethiopia, providing cities like Ouaouoaua, Eaoiiuae, and Aao with vital, life-giving supplies of L's, S's and T's. ------------------------------ From: BaDge Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:54:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Weekend WINGS Saturday's Wings is the Harrier jump Jet. Action in the Faulklands 2100 EST. regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: mangan@Kodak.COM (Paul Mangan) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 15:50:29 EST Subject: Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf Andreas, I have always respected your sources of data. However, this time I will stand beside my Son, General Swartzkofp(?sp) who talked about the incident on TV, the head of the AWACS that greeted him on his return to congratulate him and offer him a job in training "because he did it by the book", the Officers of Tinker Air Base who were there and confirmed the story at his wedding, the men of NYS Air National Guard that I talked with, the Av Leak stories which I have copies of, the video tape about the F15s in the Gulf War. I will give the Griffiss vs Rome as being less than accurate, but that's because I'm from NYS and we refer to it both ways. However in this case you are wrong about this particular incident which involved SU-27s, and Mig 21s. Excuse me, I meant to say your data source is wrong. Written history can either be more accurate or less accurate but I lived through it worrying about my Son and praying and crying for him. I am very proud of him and the Air Force has confirmed every word he has spoken to me. If TV, Video's and AV leak were inaccurate then they were inaccurate together. There are details my Son is not allowed to talk to me about but I still remember the call from Saudi shortly after it happened when he told me and his mother about it with full permission from the Air Force. I stand by my story right or wrong as written because that is the way it was told to me at the time without revisionist writing. If it discredits me I still stand by it. Paul mangan@kodak.com > From skunk-works-owner@mail.orst.edu Fri Feb 9 03:45:45 1996 > X-Sender: schnars@umcc.umcc.umich.edu > > Paul Mangan wrote the following: > > >I must have missed the beginning of this thread. My son was a > >CAPS officer on an AWACS. His duties included SCUD hunting and > >Aircraft hunting. He had 4 F15E's assigned to him. > > F-15Es did not fly any CAP (Combat Air Patrol) missions, that was the duty of > F-15Cs and F-15Ds, and F-15Es did not have any air-to-air kills (besides a > single, hovering Hughes 500 helicopter, struck by a GBU-10 laser-guided bomb, > released by Capt. Richard T. Bennett (pilot) and Capt. Daniel B. Bakke (WSO), > from F-15E, serial '89-0487', while on "Scud Patrol" near Al Quain. > > >They were > >staggered overlap for refueling. 2 would refuel while 2 were on > >patrol. 4 would be on patrol during a portion of the time. When > >SCUDS were spotted they would go for a kill immediately. The > >F15E's were out of Rome, NY. > > All F-15E in the theater were either from the 335th TFS (Tactical Fighter > Squadron) or 336th TFW, both belonging to the 4th TFW (Tactical Fighter > Wing), based at Seymour Johnson AFB, NC, tailcode 'SJ'. > > F-15Cs and F-15Ds were from the 27th TFS and 71st TFS, both 1st TFW, based at > Langley AFB, VA, tailcode 'FF', 58th TFW of the 33rd TFW, based at Eglin AFB, > FL, tailcode 'EG', all belonging to TAC (Tactical Air Command), plus 3 units > from USAFE (United States Air Forces (in) Europe), the 53rd TFS and 525th > TFS, both 36th TFW, based at Bitburg AB, Germany, tailcode 'BT', and the 32nd > TFS, 32nd TFG (Tactical Fighter Group), based at Soesterberg AB, Netherlands, > tailcode 'CR'. > > I haven't heard of Rome AFB, NY, even so I believe you mean Griffis AFB, NY, > north east of Rome, NY, where the B-52Gs of the 668th BS (Bombardment > Squadron) and the KC-135Rs of the 41st ARS (Air Refueling Squadron), both > 416th BW (Bombardment Wing), originally came from, which saw service during > Operations Desert Shield/Desert Storm. > > >Yes, they did have success. Yes, > >they were fully prepared for air to air and air to ground attacks. > >I won't repeat the full story that I have given before on this > >group but I am sure many of you read about him in AV Leak. Briefly > >while 2 F15E's were being refueled my son spotted 7 aircraft > >taking off from a base north of Bagdad and sent our 2 remaining > >F15E's after them. They engaged and confirmed 4 kills, 2 aparent > >crashes inside Iran and 1 probable crash landing at an Iranian > >air base. > > I don't remember reading about this incident in particular, but from my > sources, I belive the incident you are referring to happened on January 27, > 1991, south of Baghdad, Iraq. It involved Capt. Jay T. Denney, flying > F-15C-38-MC, serial '84-0025', of the 53rd TFS, 36th TFW, from Bitburg AB, > Germany, tailcode 'BT', who shot down two MiG-23, both with AIM-9M > Sidewinders, and Capt. Benjamin D. Powell, flying F-15C-38-MC, serial > '84-0027', from the same unit, who shot down a MiG-23 and a Mirage F1EQ, > using AIM-7M Sparrows. > > Those F-15Cs were flying daylight CAP at around 30,000 ft., when they were > vectored by an E-3 AWACS to two boogies, flying at 5,000 ft. During the > engagement with those two MiG-23 (first two AIM-7s missed), Powell spotted > two other aircraft, the Mirage F1EQ and the third MiG-23, which he pursued. I > don't know about any further aircraft being involved. The F-15Cs were based > at Al Kharj, south of Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia, where also the F-15Es of > the 4th TFW(P) (Tactical Fighter Wing, Provisional) were based. > > >Most of the details were either on TV or in the Av Leak write up. > >The SCUD details were not given by my son other than to say "yes > >but I can't talk about it." I have been able to pick them up from > >WINGS and a video tape I purchased. > > U-2Rs, E-8As, RC-135s, RF-4Cs, F-14A/TARPS, Mirage F1CR and Tornado GR.1As > and most successfull SOF (Special Operations Forces) were used to find SCUDs > and/or paint them with lasers for F-15Es, F-111Fs, F-117As, Tornado GR.1s and > other aircraft, which attacked SCUD launchers, mainly with laser-guided > bombs. The success of those 'SCUD Hunting' operations (similar to the MIM-104 > Patriot SCUD-attacks) was not as convincing as the USAF and the media wanted > the public to believe. But this is another story. > > -- Andreas > > --- --- > Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org > 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu > Flint, MI 48502-1239 > Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ > --- --- > ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:12:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf Paul, I believe that your son directed F-15 Eagles to intercept Iraqi aircraft, what I dispute is: a) that they were of the F-15E version, rather than the F-15C version; b) that they were from Griffis AFB, NY; c) that any SU-27 were shot down. During that time, only one USAF wing was operational with F-15Es, the 4th TFW (Tactical Fighter Wing), based at Seymour Johnson AFB, NC, tailcode 'SJ', which deployed 48 aircraft from two of its squadrons, the 335th TFS (Tactical Fighter Squadron) and the 336th TFS, both organized under the 4th TFW(P) (Tactical Fighter Wing, Provisional), aka 4th CW(P) (Composite Wing, Provisional) based at Al Kharj, south of Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia. All USAF air-to-air kills of fixed-wing aircraft were accomplished by F-15Cs during (and shortly after) Desert Storm. Please provide me with the unit at Griffis AFB, NY, which deployed F-15s (of any kind) during Desert Shield/Desert Storm, and or the name of pilot and/or WSO or the serial number of their aircraft, or any other detail. Iraq did not have any SU-27 'Flanker', and no SU-27 were shot down. There was one other incident during Desert Storm, where two F-15Cs shot down 4 enemy aircraft, trying to escape to Iran. This incident happened on February 6, 1991, when 2 MiG-21s where shot down by Capt. Thomas N. 'Vegas' Dietz, flying F-15C-26-MC, serial '79-0078', from the 53rd TFS, 36th TFW, from Bitburg AB, Germany, tailcode 'BT', based at Al Kharj, Saudi Arabia, using AIM-9M Sidewinders, and two SU-25 'Frogfoot' were shot down by Lt. Robert W. 'Digs' Hehemann, flying F-15C-38-MC, serial '84-0019', from the same unit, also using AIM-9M Sidewinders. The second double-kill is sometimes attributed to F-15C-38-MC, serial '84-0023' (which I believe is the wrong aircraft). Again, no further aircraft are mentioned in my sources, and no direct indication is given, that both pilots flew together, or the MiG-21s and SU-25s were engaged at the same time and place. Because I had no specific date, I had to assume it was the January 27 incident, generally being quoted as "the largest Iraqi loss during a single engagement". My 'revisionist' :) sources are: (1) Title: Gulf Air War Debrief -- Described by the pilots that fought Editor: Stan Morse Publisher: World Air Power Journal, Aerospace Publishing, London, UK Airtime Publishing, Westport, CT, USA Year: 1991 ISBN: 1-880588-005 (2) Title: The Fury of Desert Storm -- The Air Campaign Author: Bert Kinzey Publisher: Detaol & Scale Inc. TAB Books, Blue Ridge Summit, PA, USA Year: 1991 ISBN: 0-8306-3078-3 As well as others, including the Internet-published F-15 article(s) of Joe Baugher , available on the WWW at URL: - - Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: fmarkus@pipeline.com (Frank Markus) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:30:58 -0500 Subject: Re: News about Groom Lake On Feb 08, 1996 00:01:47, 'Sal@panix.com (Sal Denaro)' wrote: >In article , >you wrote: >>* Use of unmanned aircraft to do more than the spy missions they perform now; >> Uninhabited Combat Aerial Vehicles (UCAV) and Uninhabited Reconnaissance >> Aerial Vehicles (URAV), able to out-maneuver missiles at 15-20 g, flying at >> speeds of Mach 12-15 and operating at altitudes of 85,000-125,000 ft. > >I wonder what effect jamming the control system would have on a UCAV, or >worse yet- mounting a system to broadcast "slow down" messages to a URAV >onto a cheap third world SAM. > >-- >Salvatore Denaro >sal@panix.com Spinning dreams with angel wings >Yes, I use PGP torn blue jeans/a foolish grin > I doubt that the control signal to UAVs can be jammed from the ground. Most likely, the control signals are sent to a satellite which broadcasts (literally, broadcasts as opposed to a narrow signal) them down to the general area in which the UAV is operating. The strength and the weakness of the system as I see it, is that the system can be defeated by attacking the satellite that relays the signals to the UAV. I will leave the ramifications of this idea to future messages and to comments from others on the list, ------------------------------ From: "Robin J. Lee" Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:55:55 -0800 Subject: Re: JSTARS, F-15Es and the Gulf At 03:50 PM 2/9/96 EST, Paul Mangan wrote: >Andreas, >I have always respected your sources of data. However, this time >I will stand beside my Son, General Swartzkofp(?sp) who talked about >the incident on TV, the head of the AWACS that greeted him on his >return to congratulate him and offer him a job in training "because >he did it by the book", the Officers of Tinker Air Base who were >there and confirmed the story at his wedding, the men of NYS Air >National Guard that I talked with, the Av Leak stories which I have >copies of, the video tape about the F15s in the Gulf War. I will give >the Griffiss vs Rome as being less than accurate, but that's because >I'm from NYS and we refer to it both ways. However in this case you >are wrong about this particular incident which involved SU-27s, and >Mig 21s. Excuse me, I meant to say your data source is wrong. The Iraqi Air Force had no Su-27s in the inventory. I believe that you may be thinking of Su-25s, ground-attack aircraft which have been often compared to the A-10. Indeed, four air-to-air victories against a mix of MiG-21s and Su-25s were indeed recorded on the same day, during an incident in February - -- I believe that this is probably the even to which you refer. This particular incident took place on February 6, 1991, and involved "ZEREX 53" (an F-15C from the 53rd TFS/36th TFW, serial no. 79-078, and flown by Dietz) and "ZEREX 54" (an F-15C from the same unit, serial no. 84-023, flown by Heinemann. I believe that the details of this engagement were written up in the classified version of the Gulf War Air Power Survey, but lacking access, I only saw a few blank pages with "FIGURE DELETED". :) Anyway, in the end, two MiG-21s went to Dietz, and two Su-25s went to Heinemann; all kills were recorded as having been made with AIM-9s. Interestingly enough, this same leader-wingman pair (Dietz/Heinemann) went on to claim two additional Su-22s on March 22 (after the cease-fire). ZEREX 21 (Dietz), flying F-15C 84-010, bagged his Su-22 with an AIM-9; ZEREX 22 (Heinemann), flying F-15C 84-015, saw his Su-22 impact the ground during defensive maneuvering. Those two were the last kills officially recorded as part of the Gulf War, the tail end of some Su-22 air activity that began on March 20. >I stand by my story right >or wrong as written because that is the way it was told to me at the >time without revisionist writing. If it discredits me I still stand >by it. These are just minor discrepancies, really -- precise models of aircraft, parent units, basing, etc. As something of an aficionado of obscure details, I do want to say that certainly my intent in posting them is not to detract from your son's achievement or to discredit you in any way. Sometimes the enthusiastic presentation of research sounds like an attack -- when, in fact, it is simply one's excitement at finally finding a use for some otherwise-useless details stashed in a notebook somewhere! :) - -Robin. ____________________________________________________________________________ Robin J. Lee amraam@netcom.com Vulture's Row World Wide Web Page URL: http://webcom.com/~amraam/ ------------------------------ From: chosa@chosa.win.net (Byron Weber) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 18:43:44 Subject: SW/NASA? Roaming a bookstore I came across a title something like, "One Of A Kind;" all about experimental planes. The majority seem to have been built for NASA. Question: Has the Lockheed-Martin Skunk Works done any projects for NASA? Byron ------------------------------ From: "Mark E. Schmidt" Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 01:46:26 UT Subject: RE: Inverted Landings Yup, I've seen the inverted landings dozens of times, and it works, tho' I've seen 'em abandoned in strong, gusty crosswinds. Ya wanna witness, go to the annual Oshkosh EAA airshow last weekend of July annually. - ---------- From: owner-skunk-works@mail.orst.edu on behalf of BaDge Sent: Thursday, February 08, 1996 2:22 PM To: BROWN A Cc: skunk-works@ecn.purdue.edu Subject: Re: Inverted Landings On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, BROWN A wrote: > Andreas, > > Manned inverted landings are possible, there's a guy on the > airshow circuit who has a Pitts with two sets of wheels, one normal > and one on the upper wing for inverted landings. I think he even did I =saw= this during the ESPN rebroadcast of the Paris Air show, I think! It was dizzying, and disorienting just to =watch=. Of course I was watching that part partly upside down. ;-) BTW, guys, the new Smithsonian Air and Space is well out on the newstand, and is a look back at a bunch of planes that are famous for their longevity and durability, and I think this issue is the 10 year anniversary for the Mag. Cool cover. Also, again belatedly, the WINGS epi tonight Thursday (2/8): HE-111, the Heinkel "Secret Bomber" is showcased, 1800 est. regards, ________ BaDge ------------------------------ From: braden@shasta.gvg.TEK.COM (Bill Braden) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 16:28:21 PST Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Please someone, remove mike@blitzen.gvg.tek.com from this mailing list. That account has not existed on this system for nearly a year. Postmaster, gvg.tek.com - ----- Begin Included Message ----- From Mailer-Daemon Fri Feb 9 16:23:06 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 16:23:03 PST From: Mailer-Daemon (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: Postmaster Content-Length: 1702 ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Connected to blitzen: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown ----- Message header follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from gv-gate.gvg.tek.com by shasta.gvg.tek.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24448; Fri, 9 Feb 96 16:23:03 PST Received: from tektronix.TEK.COM by gv-gate.gvg.tek.com (5.0/2.3) id AA25930; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:22:59 +0800 Received: from inet2.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/8.2) id AA07356; Fri, 9 Feb 96 16:22:55 PST Received: by inet2.tek.com id ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:22:02 -0800 Received: from mail.orst.edu(128.193.4.4) by inet2 via smap (V1.3) id sma181291; Fri Feb 9 14:20:31 1996 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03373 for skunk-works-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:41:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.7]) by mail.orst.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03324 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from avery.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa16535; 9 Feb 96 13:54 EST Received: (from baj7d@localhost) by avery.med.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) id NAA97398; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:54:52 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:54:52 -0500 (EST) From: BaDge To: Skunk Works List Subject: Weekend WINGS Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-skunk-works@mail.orst.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 126 - ----- End Included Message ----- ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #617 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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