From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #667 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 20 June 1996 Volume 05 : Number 667 In this issue: AAARGH! Re: AAARGH! Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #666 SR-71 Reveled - The Inside Story List active? RE: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? Re: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? Re: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? Bissell autobio RE: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? Re: List active? Re: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? Re: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? Cost of things. Some "official" numbers See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bonorden@beast.amd.com (David Bonorden) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:48:46 -0500 Subject: AAARGH! > >My idea of the worst aeronautical errors isn't a _mass_ media error, which >is why it peeves me so much. Our in-house newpaper, the X-Press, labeled >an F-14 as an F-15. The on-base newspaper, the Desert Wings, called a >T-38 an F-4. If people right on the spot, surrounded by people who can >tell the aircraft apart in a heartbeat, can't get it right, why be so hard >on the folks that don't know any better and don't have anyone to ask? > ..and the Eglin Eagle (Eglin AFB Base Newspaper) writing a very accurate, informative article about AMRAAM tests and placing a large color photo of an A-6 carrying a Tacit Rainbow in the middle of the page, with the caption "F-15C prepares for AIM-120A launch". Dave Bonorden ------------------------------ From: Brett Davidson Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:23:20 +1200 (NZST) Subject: Re: AAARGH! Stirring in the depths of my memory, a newspaper reference to Alan Bond's airbreathing HOTOL SSTO being fuelled with HELIUM... - --Brett ------------------------------ From: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:12:30 +1100 Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #666 >Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 13 June 1996 Volume 05 : Number 666 > >In this issue: > > Re: TACIT BLUE (Ken Dyson) > Flying Wing > Re: Flying Wing > Re: Richard Bissell, Jr > Re: Delta Clipper > Re: SR-71 Glide Landings > Jane's on Skunk Works, Phantom Works etc. > AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > [none] > Re: AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > Re: AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > Re: AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > Re: AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > Re: AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > Re: AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > SR-71 Follow on aircraft..... > Re: SR-71 Follow on aircraft..... > 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? > Re: SR-71 Follow on aircraft..... > Anybody read Nickel and Wohlfahrt? > i have a new Internet userid > >See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works >or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >From: hendefd@tech.duc.auburn.edu (Frank Henderson) >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:28:46 -0500 >Subject: Re: TACIT BLUE (Ken Dyson) > >> From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl >> Lt. Col. (USAF) Norman Kenneth "Ken" Dyson was the first USAF pilot to fly a >> Lockheed HAVE BLUE aircraft, and the only pilot to fly the second HAVE BLUE >> prototype (HB-1002) from 07/20/1978 until 07/11/1979, when it crashed on its >> 52nd flight. Lockheed test pilot William M. "Bill" Park flew all 36 flights >> with the first HAVE BLUE (HB-1001) from 12/01/1977 until its crash on >> 05/04/1978. All HAVE BLUE flights were made from Groom Lake, and both >> aircraft crashed and were subsequently buried there. > >How many HAVE BLUE were built? Related question: What HAVE aircraft was >sent to Wright-Pat around 1992 (give or take a year)? > ># Frank Henderson | Div. of Univ. Computing ># Network Services /0\ Security Administrator ># X-500/Gopher Manager \_______[|(.)|]_______/ ># Auburn University o ++ 0 ++ o hendefd@mail.auburn.edu > >------------------------------ > >From: David Lednicer >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:39:46 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Flying Wing > >>All the Northrop designs had symmetrical sections. They were >>proprietary to the corporation. > > Almost Chuck - > > To quote Bill Sears, in "The Evolution of Wing Design", "the wing >profiles chosen for the XB-35 were the NACA 65,3-0XX family, in view of >their favorable properties". He later presents a table which says that for >both the XB-35 and YB-49, the root airfoil was a NACA 65,3-019 and the tip >airfoil was a NACA 65,3-018. Yes, these are symmetrical, but not >proprietary. > > According to Hans Grellman's AIAA paper "B-2 Aerodynamic Design" >(90-1802), the B-2 wing is composed of custom designed supercritical >airfoils, which are proprietary, but not symmetrical. > >- ------------------------------------------------------------------- >David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" >Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com >2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 >Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 > > >------------------------------ > >From: Charles_E._Smith.wbst200@xerox.com >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:57:47 PDT >Subject: Re: Flying Wing > >OK, >from memory those do look like 63 series stuff. Lots of pressure >recovery aft of 0.5c. >I guess I was thinking of the others as well. N1,N9`s etc. >I`m still pretty sire they were "based on" and then tweaked. >I`ll ask Irv Ashkenas (via Bill). He would know for sure. > In fact, come to think of it I have some of his papers at home. >I`ll see what I can dig up. >Chuck > >------------------------------ > >From: larry@ichips.intel.com >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:04:35 -0700 >Subject: Re: Richard Bissell, Jr > >>For the hard core skunk works enthusiast an interesting new source: >> >>Reflections of a Cold Warrior by Richard M. Bissell, Jr., with >>Jonathan E. Lewis and Frances T. Pudlo published by Yale >>University Press, 1996. >> >>The book was released last week ... > >Thanks for the heads up Byron! > >I have been waiting for this release myself as well. I'm sad to hear >Mr. Bissell died. > >Given my interest in high speed aircraft technology and the history >of such programs, I had corresponded with him regarding the >competition for a U-2 successor. I always found him to be a very >classy guy. > >Larry > >------------------------------ > >From: dosgood@proxima.gsfc.nasa.gov (Dean Osgood) >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:54:16 +0027 >Subject: Re: Delta Clipper > >FYI >Also note subscription information at bottom >Dean Osgood >- -------------------- >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:00:38 -0400 >From: NASANews@luna.osf.hq.nasa.gov (NASA HQ Public Affairs Office) >To: press-release-nasa@mercury.hq.nasa.gov >Subject: Revolutionary New Launch Vehicle Named for Space Pioneer >Sender: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov >Precedence: bulk > >James Cast >Headquarters, Washington, DC June 7, 1996 >(Phone: 202/358-1779) > >RELEASE: 96-114 > >REVOLUTIONARY NEW LAUNCH VEHICLE RENAMED FOR SPACE PIONEER > > NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin today announced >that the Agency's experimental DC-XA flight vehicle -- a >vertical takeoff and landing rocket ship -- will >be re-named "Clipper Graham" in honor of the late Lt. >General Daniel O. Graham. > > "NASA is committed to developing and demonstrating >reusable launch vehicle technologies. Graham was a >visionary who championed the promise of fully reusable >single-stage-to-orbit vehicles at a time when the majority >of the space community were skeptics. We're doing this in >commemoration of his vision in opening the space frontier," >Goldin said. > > Formerly called the Delta Clipper, the four-story DC- >XA is currently conducting a series of unmanned flight tests >in New Mexico for NASA. The project was conceived to >provide NASA's Reusable Launch Vehicle Program with an >early, small scale flight demonstration of advanced >technologies required by reusable launch vehicles. The DC- >XA, developed by the Department of Defense, incorporates the >latest advances in technology, propulsion systems and >composite materials. > > A West Point graduate, Graham served in a number of >high military and government posts including Deputy Director >of the Central Intelligence Agency and Director of the >Defense Intelligence Agency. He also founded and became >Chairman of the Space Transportation Association to assure >continued U.S. leadership and superiority in providing >reliable, economical space transportation systems. > > - end - > >NASA press releases and other information are available >automatically by sending an Internet electronic mail >message to domo@hq.nasa.gov. In the body of the message >(not the subject line) users should type the words >"subscribe press-release" (no quotes). The system will >reply with a confirmation via E-mail of each subscription. >A second automatic message will include additional >information on the service. NASA releases also are >available via CompuServe using the command GO NASA. > >Dean Osgood >dosgood@proxima.gsfc.nasa.gov >OR >dlonsi@www710.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > >------------------------------ > >From: betnal@ns.net >Date: Sat, 08 Jun 96 04:56:52 GMT >Subject: Re: SR-71 Glide Landings > >I'm only reading the digest right now, so I suspect that there will be >some responses from others more knowledgeable than me on this that I >haven't seen yet, but just in case: > >Folks, step back and think on this for a second. If you're flying > > > THE FASTEST AIRPLANE IN THE WORLD, > >you know that there will never be any more built so each one you lose >means one less for-ev-er, you can get all the tanker support you could >ever need (after all, you've already used them on your mission and now >you're on your way home, so what range are you trying to stretch anyway?), >this really isn't something that there's been the resources to remain >proficient on, you know you're gonna lose hydraulics if the engines >windmill below 1500 rpm (do you really want to be in a ballistic rock on >final?), and you've got no way to get off the runway if you make it, > > WHY-WOULD-YOU-WANT-TO-DO-THIS? > > >(Now watch someone write in with 25 SR missions under their belt and say >they did it all the time; Oh well, I 've learned to tolerate the taste of >crow over the years) (But I'll bet no one like that writes in). > >Art > > >------------------------------ > >From: Brett Davidson >Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:44:01 +1200 (NZST) >Subject: Jane's on Skunk Works, Phantom Works etc. > >Jane's Defence Weekly, 29 May 1996, pp 18-24. > >Longish article on the various black aerospace divisions in the US. >Mostly on business practises, similarities and differences between >operating methods, eg: large and relatively public (!) L-M Skunk Works v >"small and hungry" Martin Marietta Advanced Development Operations (now >part of L-M, of course) etc. > >McD-D Phantom Works acknowledged to counter publicity given L-M and also to >reposition the company in a changing aerospace market. > >Comments that fighters are becoming increasingly uneconomic and radical >development and production changes will have to be made, some aspects of >JSF a part of this process. > >Northrop Grumman's Advanced Technology and Development Center doesn't have a >dedicated protoype shop (unlike the Skunk Works), they consider it to be >too expensive. > >Sidebar by Bill Sweetman on the black budget: notes a slight increase >(accounting for inflation) when total Pentagon budget has fallen, total >black Research, Development, Testing and Evaluation budget for Fiscal Year >1997 is $US 11 000 000 000. This is a 12% increase over 1993, and more >than the US Army spends on all RDT&E _AND_ procurement. > >A few quotes by Jack Gordon, current SW president. Says he has worked on >15 real, flying aircraft (most engineers are lucky with one or two) ... >and can only cite 12 of them. A wall chart in his office shows something >sleek and apparently very fast contemporary with YF-22 and named "Astra"... >officials later claim that the chart is a mistake and "Astra" was an SST >project from the 1970s ... but no history of L-M mentions it... hmmm... > >Sidebar on Kingfish(er). Its real name is classified, much of the >technology still is. Speculation that Convair, later General Dynamics, >now Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems is an overlooked element in >the "Aurora" saga. Implied that Kingfisher contributed to Aurora, which >may really be called Astra... > >Well, maybe. Of course I'd like to believe it... Good read anyway. > >Also, Flight International, 5-11 June 1996 has a comprehensive Military >Satellite Directory listing communications, recon, research etc satellites >of all spacefaring nations. > >- --Brett > > > >------------------------------ > >From: Brett Davidson >Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:54:59 +1200 (NZST) >Subject: AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > >News item here (New Zealand) recently. The DC-XA, I am told (though it >was not mentioned by name) is THE Space Shuttle replacement, and will also >carry passengers around the world. >It was also mentioned that it was cone-shaped. This was correct. >I feel ill. >Any humourous anecdotes on the idiocy of the mass media in other parts of >the world? >- --Brett > >------------------------------ > >From: "Frank A. Petillo" >Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 13:33:00 -0400 >Subject: [none] > >unsuscribe > _\\|//_ > (-0-0-) >+-----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------------+ >| Frank A. Petillo | >| URL:http://www.monmouth.com/user_pages/fpetillo | >| | >| Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. | >+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > || || > ooO Ooo > >------------------------------ > >From: Dave Cox >Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 14:50:28 >Subject: Re: AAAARRGGGHHH!!!! > >> News item here (New Zealand) recently. The DC-XA, I am told (though it >> was not mentioned by name) is THE Space Shuttle replacement, and will also >> carry passengers around the world. >> It was also mentioned that it was cone-shaped. This was correct. >> I feel ill. >> Any humourous anecdotes on the idiocy of the mass media in other parts of >> the world? > >Actually, I saw a snip on CNN that pretty much got it spot on; something to >the effect of "The first in a series of technology demonstrators which will >hopefully lead to a Shuttle replacement". They also showed illustrations of >the Rockewell and Skunkworks X-33 concepts. Pretty damn good for TV. > >Closer to home, any word on LASRE, Mary? > >- --dave ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 22:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SR-71 Reveled - The Inside Story Hello Skunkers, I just did a "fast" read of the book: SR-71 Reveled - - The Inside Story by Col. Richard Graham and I found a lot of things that I haven't seen from others SR-71 or Skunk Works books. I enjoy a lot, it really tells you the "inside story" of the habu's and peoples involved in the SR-71. Things like their feelings and emotions, their lifes, plus of course, technical specification of the Blackbird that some of then was censure in the SR-71 Pilot's Manual. Overall, it was like a autobiograph of all habu's. I highly recommend to all Skunk Works and SR-71 lovers to read it. Col. Richard Graham (Ret.), conclude that there is not a successor of the Blackbird, enemies of the Blackbird start to spread the lay of a succesor of SR-71. Sorry Skunkers, if Richard Graham tell us the true, there is no Aurora, or was death before she was born... May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mail: wsu02@barney.poly.edu "Chew, if only you could see what I've seen with your eyes!" Roy Batty (Blade Runner) ------------------------------ From: Earl Needham Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:55:05 -0700 Subject: List active? I just realized that I haven't seen anything from the list in several days. Is the list operating OK? Earl Needham, KD5XB, in Clovis, NM Commercial Pilot, ASEL, Instrument Airplane Private Priveleges, Single-Engine Sea Have you really jumped ROUNDS? (Overheard at the Clovis Parachute Center) ------------------------------ From: agentx@closer.brisnet.org.au (Matthew Etherington) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:50:37 +1000 Subject: RE: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? >AgentX =8^) > >Who do you think you are pretending to be Agent X. Shame on you. > It's nothing more than my IRC nickname ... Are you, perhaps, seeking to debunk my explanation of the 1957 UFO ?? Did you even READ my explanation? ------------------------------ From: agentx@closer.brisnet.org.au (Matthew Etherington) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:26:07 +1000 Subject: Re: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? I've received a couple of requests for information, viz. details about the book "Beyond Earth." So, here it is! :) Title : "Beyond Earth : Man's Contact with UFOs" Authors : Ralph Blum with Judy Blum Publisher : Bantam Books Publication Date : April 1974 Edition : 5th printing As far as I know, the photo in question appears in all editions of the book, and takes up two pages. It is unknown whether or not the book is still in print, but it should be available at a decent library. The caption on the photo follows : "Below is a routine photograph taken by a test pilot for McDonald Douglas Aircraft Company over Edwards Air Force Base in the Mojave desert, September 1957 (see blow-up at right). There were repercussions in the Defense Department." I *BET* there were repercussions!! ;-) Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it *McDonell* Douglas, not McDonald? I could be wrong here, tell me if so. ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 00:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? > Title : "Beyond Earth : Man's Contact with UFOs" > Authors : Ralph Blum with Judy Blum > > "Below is a routine photograph taken by a test pilot for > McDonald Douglas Aircraft Company over Edwards Air Force > Base in the Mojave desert, September 1957 (see blow-up > at right). There were repercussions in the Defense Department." > > I *BET* there were repercussions!! ;-) > > Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it *McDonell* Douglas, not McDonald? > I could be wrong here, tell me if so. Actually it's McDonnell. I'm not surprised they got it wrong, since UFO books are not usually known for their accuracy, and UFO authors rarely bother to check their "facts". ------------------------------ From: chosa@chosa.win.net (Byron Weber) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:06:32 Subject: Bissell autobio Just a quick review of Bissell's Reflections of a Cold Warrior. Once you get past the Marshall Plan, very dry and heavy, intellectual world economics, the reading is much more enjoyable. What I found particularly interesting about Bissell's account of the U-2, SR-71 and satellite surveillance, in the chapter Overhead Reconnaissance, was the extent to which different government agencies controlled the programs. I had been under the impression that the air force assumed control of the SR-71 at one point, probably as a result of Ben Rich's discription of LeMay's behavior after he learned about it. Bissell maintains he had complete control throughout it's development. On the other hand, I believed the CIA was principally responsible for Corona and to some extent Keyhole, but according to Bissell it was essentually an air force program. He clearly defined the advantages and disadvantages of planes vs satellites. He described how he and Ritland "...put the genie back in the bottle." (pgs 135/136), that is, controlled public perception of Corona by canceling the "old" project thereby eliminating air force project WS-117L and continueing with a cover, peaceful space pursuit, named Discoverer. This raises questions about the extent to which the CIA, military and others have crossed the forbidden "domestic" psi line, used NASA as a cover and funded secret projects without oversight. But, just how does one go about keeping secret info from potential enemies without deceiving its citizens? Tough question. Bissell was a complex character, humble and yet, at times, blatantly defiant. He provides a wonderful insight into the decision making processes of high government. Byron ------------------------------ From: Salvatore Denaro Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:38:43 -0400 Subject: RE: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? On Sunday, June 16, 1996 08:51 PM, Dean Adams[SMTP:dadams@netcom.com] wrote: >> Title : "Beyond Earth : Man's Contact with UFOs" >> Authors : Ralph Blum with Judy Blum Is this the same Judy Blum who wrote *ficton* and books for young teens? What are her credentials for analyzing photos? - -- Salvatore Denaro "The only difference between me and a madman sal@panix.com is that I am not mad." -- Salvador Dali ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 02:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: List active? On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, Earl Needham wrote: > > I just realized that I haven't seen anything from the list in several > days. Is the list operating OK? Sometime I asked myself too, and I was wonder if SKUNKS hibernate :P I guess last weekend all skunkers was taking a break because of fathers day :) May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mail: wsu02@barney.poly.edu "Chew, if only you could see what I've seen with your eyes!" Roy Batty (Blade Runner) ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 11:40:06 -0700 Subject: Re: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? agentx@closer.brisnet.org.au (Matthew Etherington) writes: >I've recently dowloaded a couple of JPEGs of a just-declassified project >called Tacit Blue. It's a high-altitude reconnaisance aircraft, which the >USAF claims they started flying in 1980, and mothballed it around 1985. First flight of TACIT BLUE was in Feb. 1982. >However, I've just been looking through some old books, and came across a >photo in a book called "Beyond Earth". It was taken in 1957, over Edwards >AFB, and is a photo of a McDonell-Douglas aircraft on a test flight. In one >corner of this photo, though, apparently tailing the first plane at a >distance is an unusual object. > >But when you look at the blow-up of this object, and compare it to the >picture of Tacit Blue, the two are damn near identical. > >Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner, so I can't send y'all a pic of the UFO. > >But does anyone know anything more about this, or have any comments? > I had time to check this out last night Matthew and the photo reproduction in Blum's book does bear a resemblance to TACIT BLUE from the side, but, the photo reproduction in Blum's book is very poor. There are clearer versions of that famous photo and blowup, in other UFO books. When you see the clearer photo and blowup, there is no resemblance to TACIT BLUE. By the way, the aircraft in question is a Martin B-57. Now that I say that, there are probably several people who recall the photo that you're talking about. It was allegedly taken near Edwards AFB in Sept. 1957 from a chase/photo aircraft. I also quickly checked the official USAF UFO Study report to see if that photo had been studied and what their conclusions were. I couldn't find it in the index looking for 'Edwards AFB', 'B-57', or 'Martin'. I could not find it in the list of photos for the USAF study either. It may actually be covered in some of my other old books. When I get the chance I'll check them. I'll e-mail you privately if I find anything. Larry ------------------------------ From: agentx@closer.brisnet.org.au (Matthew Etherington) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:38:21 +1000 Subject: Re: 1957 UFO, or Tacit Blue? >First flight of TACIT BLUE was in Feb. 1982. > I stand corrected ;-) >I had time to check this out last night Matthew and the photo reproduction >in Blum's book does bear a resemblance to TACIT BLUE from the side, but, >the photo reproduction in Blum's book is very poor. There are clearer versions >of that famous photo and blowup, in other UFO books. When you see the clearer >photo and blowup, there is no resemblance to TACIT BLUE. > Damn! Thought I was on to something ... oh well, back to designing free energy and anti-grav devices, I guess ;-) Thanks for this information, Larry. I was beginning to think that no-one was even interested in replying to me! btw, do you know where I can get a clearer picture of the object? Is there one on the web anywhere? >I also quickly checked the official USAF UFO Study report to see if that photo >had been studied and what their conclusions were. I couldn't find it in the >index looking for 'Edwards AFB', 'B-57', or 'Martin'. I could not find it in >the list of photos for the USAF study either. It may actually be covered in >some of my other old books. When I get the chance I'll check them. I'll e-mail >you privately if I find anything. > Thanks, I'd appreciate that :-) Be seeing you .... ********************************************************************* * * * "You don't know the half of it" * * -- Ex-US President George Bush, commenting on UFOs * * * * "The truth is out there ... But so are lies." * * -- Dana Scully * * * * ------------------------------------------------------- * * * * Matthew Etherington * * * * =8^) [ agentx@closer.brisnet.org.au ] =8^) * * * ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ From: dougt@u011.oh.vp.com (Doug Tiffany) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 96 7:09:44 EDT Subject: Cost of things. I was watching Headline News yesterday and they had a short segment about gardening. The question was asked about how much it costs to get started. The reply was about $20.00. What does this have to do with Skunkworks? It made me think about how the comment was made that pictures from the SR cost 1 million dollars a piece. I couldn't help but think that the person who made the comment about the startup cost of gardening obviously didn't take into consideration the cost of buying the land, housing the gardening materials, installing water and other utilities, real estate taxes, etc. Instead of saying it costs about $20.00 to start, it would have been more realistic to say about $75,000.00. - -- Doug "just venting a little" Tiffany dougt@u011.oh.vp.com ------------------------------ From: drbob@creighton.edu Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:19:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Some "official" numbers Although it's been a while since we've discussed SR-71 operating costs, I came across a reference today that may offer some "official" fuel to the fire. In a presentation given during the May 1996 Strategic Air Command Symposium held at Offutt AFB, Dr. Vance Mitchell discussed, inter alia, SR-71 and U-2 recon operations. Concerning the Sled, he said that the weaknesses of the airplane included "its limited overflight potential, short flight times (less than two hours between take-offs and landings or inflight refuelings) and sky-high operating costs (as much as seventy thousand dollars per flying hour)." Mitchell's source for the operating costs was Dr. Coy Cross, the 9th SRW historian. Mitchell also indicates that as of the late 1970s, the hourly operating costs for the U-2 was "only about fifteen hundred dollars." Just thought you'd like to know. Dr Bob ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #667 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". 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