From: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #726 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@mail.orst.edu Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@mail.orst.edu Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Sunday, 17 November 1996 Volume 05 : Number 726 In this issue: A new designator JSF announcement Re: "AL-747-400F" Re: "AL-747-400F" Airborne Laser Re: Airborne Laser RE: ABL RE: ABL JSF contenders Re: JSF contenders Inside of the Skunk Works Skunk Works will share the work Time to Web and news on the A16 project... Re: Airborne Laser Re:Time to Web and news on the A16 project... Re: Airborne Laser RE: ABL See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 12:10:32  Subject: A new designator Andreas, When you sent out your comprehensive list on designators, you asked for any additions. Well, here's a new one: AL, for "Attack Laser" The prototype Boeing AirBorne Laser 747-400F will fly in the fall of 2000. It will be desingated "YAL-1A", and the production aircraft will be designated AL-1s. Eventually seven aircraft are to be built. Art "Zap" Hanley My employers are in no way associated with whatever is written above, much to their relief ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 12:15:23  Subject: JSF announcement The announcement of the two finalists to build JSF demonstrators was expected for next Monday (which was revised a while back from the original expected date, which was today). It's just been announced that the selection will be disclosed tomorrow at noon (EST), which is somewhat unusual. Art Hanley "Remember, Grasshopper: The views above are not one with those of my employer, but like the butterfly go where they will, with each not representing the other. Therein lies the path of true wisdom and continued employment". ------------------------------ From: Side Show Marc Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:43:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: "AL-747-400F" Hey All, Delurking for a moment to ask about the Boeing AirBorne Laser (the "Al-747/400" and the ineveitable follow on, the F/E/Al-747). I assume that at least for right now the Airborne laser is just a test bed but for what role is it intended? I can see aps for ground support, air to air, and antisatelite(SP). Is the answer one of the above or simply "yes"? Thanks, Marc "Shiny Objects" Studer ___________ Marc Studer ___________________________________________ "Life is a fair approximation of reality." - Jacques Portman "Two plus two equals Duh." - Jacques Portman ______________________________________ mstuder@spu.edu ___________ On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 ahanley@usace.mil wrote: > Andreas, > > When you sent out your comprehensive list on designators, you asked for > any additions. Well, here's a new one: > > AL, for "Attack Laser" > > > The prototype Boeing AirBorne Laser 747-400F will fly in the fall of > 2000. It will be desingated "YAL-1A", and the production aircraft will be > designated AL-1s. Eventually seven aircraft are to be built. > > > > Art "Zap" Hanley > > My employers are in no way > associated with whatever is > written above, much to their > relief > ------------------------------ From: stevek@Paragon.COM (Steve Kovner) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 18:11:34 -0500 Subject: Re: "AL-747-400F" I had heard it was for theatre ballistic missile defense (e.g. shooting down Scuds). But then, I get my info from newspapers, and they can be very screwed up- yesterday, I read a report that described the Harpoon as an "anti-submarine missile". Steve Kovner ------------------------------ From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 21:33:12 EST Subject: Airborne Laser In the event, all have not seen the press release on the airborne laser program. Bear with me , I,ll post it . - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BOEING, LOCKHEED MARTIN, TRW WIN AIRBORNE LASER CONTRACT Washington DC, November 12, 1996 -- The United States Air Force today awarded a team of Boeing, TRW and Lockheed Martin a $1.1 billion contract to develop and demonstrate a revolutionary laser weapon system to defend against the threat posed by theater ballistic missiles such as the Iraqi Scuds used during Desert Storm. Under the terms of the Program Definition and Risk Reduction (PDRR) contract awarded today, the three companies, working together as Team ABL, will build and test an Airborne Laser (ABL) weapon system mounted aboard a Boeing 747-400F aircraft. The Airborne Laser Weapon System Program is managed by the Air Force at Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico. In 1994, Team ABL was one of two teams chosen by the Air Force to conduct separate Airborne Laser conceptual design studies that culminated in today's announcement. Over the next five years of the PDRR contract, the ABL will demonstrate that the required technologies can be integrated onto an airborne platform to shoot down theater ballistic missiles (TBM) at ranges measured in hundreds of kilometers. After a successful PDRR program, the Air Force will proceed with an Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) contract for a fully operational system. The PDRR ABL system will provide the Air Force with a residual operational capability. "We consider it an honor to be given the responsibility of bringing this technology to an operational level," said Gerald King, president of Boeing Defense & Space Group. "The members of Team ABL fully agree with Secretary of the Air Force Sheila Widnall's statement that the Airborne Laser program is as revolutionary as the invention of gunpowder or the Manhattan Project." The Air Force envisions a fleet of up to seven ABLs that will play a key role in America's "tiered architecture" of defenses arrayed against theater ballistic missiles. Able to cross oceans without refueling, the Airborne Laser can arrive on station within hours. It can go into operation immediately, providing protection for threatened allies and airfields, ports and other facilities vital to the buildup of follow-on forces. In addition to its ability to detect and destroy TBMs shortly after launch, ABL will significantly enhance the performance of other TBM defenses through real-time transmission of precise trajectory data on salvo-launches. Addressing the need for ABL, Boeing Program Manager Paul Shennum said, "The media has reported increasing numbers of missiles in the arsenals of countries unfriendly to the United States. Today, more than 20 countries, including Iraq, Iran and North Korea, have more than ten thousand theater ballistic missiles in their arsenals. Many are also developing chemical, biological or nuclear warheads." Dr. Ron Andrews, vice president of the Advanced Technology Center of Lockheed Martin Missiles & Space emphasized that Team ABL's proposed system draws its strength from the quality of the research that preceded it. "Our successful bid for the next phase of the ABL program draws on decades of Air Force and private sector investment and research," he said. "We're confident that our system will provide an affordable and very effective defense against Scuds and other theater ballistic missiles." Team ABL's winning proposal calls for the laser weapon system to be mounted in a modified Boeing 747-400 freighter that will operate over friendly territory at altitudes above 40,000 feet. At those altitudes -- above cloud layer -- it will acquire and track missiles as they rise from their launch sites using an Infrared Search and Track system developed by Lockheed Martin. The ABL Beam Control/Fire Control System, also provided by Lockheed Martin, will then accurately point and fire the TRW laser with sufficient energy to destroy the missile while it is still in the highly vulnerable boost phase of flight, over the launching country and, before separation of its warheads. "Team ABL brings together acknowledged industry leaders in ABL's three program-critical technologies: TRW for lasers, Boeing for systems integration and Lockheed Martin for optics and laser beam control technology," said Joanne Maguire, vice president and general manager, TRW Space & Technology Division. She noted that the successful Team ABL proposal has been validated over the last few months by a series of tests that demonstrated the maturity of those ABL technologies. o Boeing met the challenges posed by the aerodynamics of the nose turret with a unique design whose effectiveness was verified in a series of wind tunnel tests which demonstrated excellent aero-optical performance and reduced aircraft drag. o Lockheed Martin successfully demonstrated a full- function laboratory configuration of its ABL target acquisition and laser beam control adaptive optics system, showing that ABL will be able to deliver the required energy on target while operating in a stressing atmospheric distortion environment. o TRW verified the design of its ABL Chemical Oxygen Iodine (COIL) laser by using a prototype "building block" COIL module to demonstrate power and chemical efficiency levels necessary for the company to build a megawatt-class laser that can meet all ABL operational requirements. TRW, based in Cleveland, Ohio, built the world's first high-energy chemical laser in 1973 for the Department of Defense. Four years later, it integrated a high-energy laser with a beam director that successfully destroyed missiles in flight. In 1981, TRW demonstrated industry's first COIL, the laser selected for the ABL system. Since then, the company has produced two of the world's highest energy chemical lasers, the megawatt-class Alpha and Mid- Infrared Advanced Chemical Laser. Lockheed Martin Missiles & Space, operating out of Sunnyvale, California, draws on extensive beam control experience in programs like Talon Gold, the Large Optics Demonstration Experiment, Starlab, and the Ground-based Free Electron Laser Beam Control System. Additionally, Lockheed Martin has been developing precision optical systems for 35 years, including the recently declassified CORONA program work. Boeing has a long history of successful large-scale systems integration such as the International Space Station. Boeing is the industry leader in modification of its 747 aircraft to perform unique missions ranging from the Space Shuttle transporter to Air Force One. "This is a historic day for the United States Air Force and for those of us on Team ABL," said the Boeing Company's Shennum. "It's the beginning of a new era in which the high- powered laser is used to defend our country. We are aware of the responsibility that goes with this award. We'll do the job." ### November 12, 1996 96-68 Missiles & Space Communications Office Contact: Buddy Nelson - Lockheed Martin (408) 742-6688 Randy Harrison - Boeing (206) 655-8632 Brooks McKinney - TRW (310) 814-8177 ------------------------------ From: FSalles@trip.com.br (Felipe Salles) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 12:32:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Airborne Laser JOHN SZALAY wrote/posted: > > BOEING, LOCKHEED MARTIN, TRW > WIN AIRBORNE LASER CONTRACT(Snip) > will build and test > an Airborne Laser (ABL) weapon system mounted aboard a > Boeing 747-400F aircraft. (Snip) > the ABL > will demonstrate that the required technologies can be > integrated onto an airborne platform to shoot down theater > ballistic missiles (TBM) at ranges measured in hundreds of > kilometers. > Isn't wonderful that Iran's F14/Phoenix interceptor pair aren't operational these days... ------------------------------ From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 11:31:59 EST Subject: RE: ABL > From: "FSalles@trip.com.br" "Felipe Salles" > Subj: Re: Airborne Laser >> >> JOHN SZALAY wrote/posted: >> >> BOEING, LOCKHEED MARTIN, TRW >> WIN AIRBORNE LASER CONTRACT(Snip) >> >> will build and test an Airborne Laser (ABL) weapon system a >> mounted aboard Boeing 747-400F aircraft. >> the ABL will demonstrate that the required technologies can be >> integrated onto an airborne platform to shoot down theater >> ballistic missiles (TBM) at ranges measured in hundreds of >> kilometers. > Isn't wonderful that Iran's F14/Phoenix interceptor pair aren't operational these days... (Snip) Aren't they ? I was under the impression that out of the 70+ F-14's delivered to Iran, it is estimated that they MAY have up 12 aircraft operational for missions by cannibalization. Perhaps I,m putting to much "faith" in the Media reports . John Szalay *-------------------------------------- ( Laser Driver ) jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com WARNING: Do not look into Laser beam with remaining eye ! DISCLAIMER: : OF COURSE I don,t speak for my employer:I don,t even agree with "them" most of the time. ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 13:53:22 -0800 Subject: RE: ABL Comments by : Art Hanley@IM@SPK Date : Saturday, November 16, 1996 13:53:02 Forwarded to : internet[skunk-works@mail.orst.edu] -------------------------- [Original Message] ------------------------- To : smtp@SPKSYS12@Servers[] From : Art Hanley@IM@SPK Subject : RE: ABL Date : Saturday, November 16, 1996 at 1:52:20 pm PST - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There may be some F-14s operational. Phoenix s more problematical. When the Ayotollah threw the US out of Iran, some Grumman employees secretly removed critical parts of the AWG-9 system. Among those were the capability to use Phoenix. There were stories that Iran provided AIM-54s and F-14s to the Soviet Union for study in return for technical assistance. In the Iran-Iraq war F-14s were used, and it is often said they flew only in a "mini-AWACS role". On the other hand, there's this cruious phenomena from the GulF War: When an AWG-9 comes on, it lights up the sky like nothing else. From the very first during the war, when F-14s were flying escort and they'd power up the AWG-9s, approaching Iraqii fighters would instantly turn and flee. They wouldn't do this fo other fire control radars. The AWG-9 got the nickname "Mig Repellent" for this phenomena, and attack crew were wondering if there was someoway they could simulate an AWG-9 transmission. Maybe the Iraqiis knew something... Art Hanley Don't even think, not for a second, That what I said above has anything To do with my employer's position. ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 13:54:30  Subject: JSF contenders Macair was eliminated, and Lockheed and Boeing will build demonstrators. Art Hanley My employers are in no way associated with whatever is written above, much to their relief ------------------------------ From: Brett Davidson Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 12:21:59 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Re: JSF contenders On Sat, 16 Nov 1996 ahanley@usace.mil wrote: > Macair was eliminated, and Lockheed and Boeing will build demonstrators. > > Art Hanley > Just heard it myself. Hmmmm, I suppose all things are clear in retrospect... I'd expected McAir and Boeing, but I suppose this choice reflects a desire to see low costs through two strategies: either Lockmarts relatively conservative design and Boeings radical, but small and lightweight modular approach perhaps? - --Brett ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:23:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Inside of the Skunk Works Well, since in this list does not talk a lot about how the people of Skunk Works works inside, let me start: I was talking to a friend of mine that worked in Skunk Works a couple of years ago, he was working in the shape of the YF-22. He mention that the Skunkers work separate in differents teams (depenting in their specialization) for the same goal. Each team specialize in something, and work on it, bringing the result all together during a general meeting (where all the teams meet). For example, to define the tail section of the YF-22, two differents teams work in the stability of the tail, one is from the wind tunnel test group, the other is from a computer simulation group. At the end of their work, they bring together their datas, and match the result. Most of the time are the same, but some times, one of the team made a error... The great part is that they work as a professional, if a team made a error, big deal, they correct it without getting mad, complain, embarrass, etc. I asked him if the F-117 can carry Harm, he said yes!! I asked him what is the real max. range and speed of the AIM-120?... the data amazed me!!! I couldn't react for a 5 seconds!!! He didn't tell me that this data is classified, but just to make sure, another expert of this missile in the list can offer the unclassified data. He said, practically, the missile can reach its target without been detected by the enemy aircraft. That's why USAF is not hurry up to fill the short range gap of the next generation Sidewinder (AIM-9X). May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mails: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu wjs@webspan.net ------------------------------ From: BMendoza@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:34:40 -0500 Subject: Skunk Works will share the work PALMDALE, Calif., Nov. 16 /PRNewswire/ -- Lockheed Martin Skunk Works will design and build two full-scale demonstrator aircraft under a $1.1 billion contract awarded today to a team led by Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems of Fort Worth, Texas. Skunk Works President Jack Gordon said the Skunk Works' share of the contract is valued at approximately $500 million during the 51-month period of performance. The initial aircraft will be rolled out at the Palmdale facility in May 1998, Gordon said, with first flight scheduled for March 2000 from Edwards Air Force Base. "Our schedule is ambitious," Gordon said, "but this is precisely the type of work that has earned the Skunk Works its world-renowned reputation for rapid prototyping." Gordon said the Skunk Works played an early role in the JSF competition by building a nearly full-size Short Takeoff/Vertical Landing (STOVL) aircraft model in Palmdale in 1994-95. The model's shaft-driven lift fan system -- an innovative, convertible propulsion concept patented by the Skunk Works -- was operated for 200 hours, proving the system's feasibility and mechanical integrity. JSF employment at the Skunk Works is expected to reach a peak of about 900 during the first quarter of 1998. Currently there are approximately 100 employees, including 25 from Tactical Aircraft Systems, working on the program in Palmdale. Some new-hires or transferred personnel from the Ontario facility are expected to complement the JSF team. SOURCE Lockheed Martin Skunk Works CO: Lockheed Martin Skunk Works ST: California IN: ARO SU: CON 11/16/96 14:24 EST http://www.prnewswire.com ------------------------------ From: FSalles@trip.com.br (Felipe Salles) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 15:24:51 -0700 Subject: Time to Web and news on the A16 project... Some small WWW trivia. Six hours after the JST anouncement Boings homepage already had that information spread all over. Several pages made reference to it. On the other hand no changes were to be seen on either the Lockheed Martin or MacAir web sites... Also I was puzzled to notice that there is no mention whatsoever of the late A16 Avenger II inside MacDonell Douglas home page, not even anything technology or manufacturing related. Can any of you point me to info on the web on this interesting airplane? Regards Felipe ------------------------------ From: FSalles@trip.com.br (Felipe Salles) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 15:15:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Airborne Laser I have a personal feeling that The ABL 747 won't be much of a weapon system. Don't get me wrong, ABL sounds fantastic (we've been waiting since early Flash Gordon movie serials... ;) It's the 747 part that seems awkward. Perhaps someone with major power decided to field this technology before some bureaucrat kills it in congress (or inside the Pentagon...). Before we know the next generation ABL hardware will be small enough to fit inside one of these extreme range biz-jets coming out now. Possibly this will happen before the production of all the 7 predicted AL1-A's are built. Imagine the support structure that would have to be brought along in any one ABL mission, men, parts, supplies, support craft Can anyone recall if this (stop-gap measure)has happened before in military airplane history? Comments? Regards Felipe ------------------------------ From: FSalles@trip.com.br (Felipe Salles) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 15:29:12 -0700 Subject: Re:Time to Web and news on the A16 project... Oops... damn typos... ;) I meant JSF not JST... Apologeticly, Felipe ------------------------------ From: Brett Davidson Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:36:34 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Re: Airborne Laser On Sat, 20 Apr 1996, Felipe Salles wrote: > since early Flash Gordon movie serials... ;) It's the 747 part that > seems awkward. Perhaps someone with major power decided to field this From what I hear, it's been quite an achievement to fit a useable system with enough power and "ammunition" - fuel - and effective range into a 747. Going on an AW&ST article (Oct 7, 1996 pp 26-28), the laser crew (excluding flight crew) has been reduced from 10 to 4 by refinements. It's a big, complicated device involving liquid fuel tanks and a combustion chamber that can't be shrunk much. Adaptive optics notwithstanding, effective range is a physical function of wavelength and mirror diameter which determine at what distance the beam can be collimated in a small enough cross-section to do more than merely warm the target (I'm afraid that I don't know the formula). A largish turret is always going to be necessary. In the long run, ie: next generation or two, one could imagine a large space- or ground-based weapon that then sends its beam up to a smaller aircraft which then refocuses the beam and directs it to the target perhaps. Actually, one of the things about many science fiction films that irritates me is depictions of beam weapons with long skinny barrels, visible beams and recoil. I guess that squat parabolic mirror setups on gimbals aren't as dramatic. As for the ungainly nature of the 747: light travels at ~300 000 km per second and the weapon is supposed to have an effective range of ~300 km. One thousandth of a second. Moreover, it is not conceived as a penetration weapon, but rather one that loiters in relatively safe airspace. It doesn't need to be agile. If it is successful, the deployment of such weapons would lead to a major reshaping of strategy. Assignment for friday: how will directed energy weapons affect strategy and tactics; is the dogfighter obsolete, will the AL-1 be able to play CDs at long range? Discuss. - --Brett ------------------------------ From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 17:06:33 EST Subject: RE: ABL > From:FSalles@trip.com.br "Felipe Salles" > Subj: Re: Airborne Laser > > I have a personal feeling that The ABL 747 won't be much of a weapon > system. Don't get me wrong, ABL sounds fantastic (we've been waiting > since early Flash Gordon movie serials... ;) It's the 747 part that > seems awkward. Possibly, however its NOT an attack type aircraft, more like the AWACS, JSTARS, RC-135 genera. A sedate airliner airframe flying a racetrack pattern near the area of conflict, With AWACS & CAP support. It doesn,t have to be overly agile except to help bring the lens to bear on the target. Remember this is a demo/concept program. As the Gulf war demonstrated, the threat from theater missiles is very real. The Patriot missile system worked to a degree, but the fact that, what intercepts were successful, the debris still was able to cause much damage. If the mobile missiles cannot be destroyed on the ground before launch, (again gulf war lessons, hard to find the transporters/launchers) Then try to destroy them in the boost stage when there is something to target on. High doppler and/or IR signature. The best answer to the whole problem would be not have the conflict at all, but humans being what they are. (sigh) > Imagine the support structure that would have to be brought along in any > one ABL mission, men, parts, supplies, support craft Not unlike what is already required for "normal" combat or transport aircraft? > Can anyone recall if this (stop-gap measure)has happened before in > military airplane history? Comments? JSTARS comes to mind. - ------------------------------------ 25 years ago, if you mentioned a combat aircraft with no guns, no radar no radio, no missiles & sub-sonic speeds, folks would have laughed, but look at what you now have in the F-117. Special weapons for special needs. John Szalay *----------------------------- Laser driver jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com WARNING: Do not look into Laser beam with remaining eye ! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, I don,t speak for my employer................... ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #726 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@mail.orst.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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